What Is Your Faith Story?

[Tyler]

[DISCLAIMER] This thread will not tolerate ANY kind of derogatory jokes, comments, or anything offensive. You can disagree with anyone, that is fine, but do so in a civil manner, as anything that can or will disrespect anyone will be reported and hopefully carry some disciplinary action since you've been warned. This thread is just simply for you to share what your faith is, why you think that way, and for others to read it and hopefully learn something about the forum members and what they believe [DISCLAIMER]

So, my personal faith story is rather unique I believe. I was not raised in any kind of church, mosque, or temple. My parents did bring my brother and I to a Baptist church once in a while that a family friend preached at, but that was about the extent of it. Growing up, I was always interested in religion and culture because I was raised in a military family and moved around a lot -- which exposed me to a variety of people from all over the world. My foundation in faith was that of Christianity because thats what the majority of my family adhered to. I was familiar with the Bible's stories but not the actual Bible itself as I had never read the Bible itself.

Well as I got older and began taking college courses in religion my faith and relationship with G-d began to grow into different directions. I took classes in Old Test., Islam, and Judaism. Eventually I would dedicate my studies to Islam where my knowledge would far outshine my knowledge of Judaism and Christianity. With this knowledge, I would also develop how I felt about G-d and re-evaluate my relationship with G-d.

Ultimately, at this point in my life. I've developed into what most would call an Abhrahamic faith system. What does this mean you might ask? Well, in laymen's terms, I believe in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam -- to certain extents on each one. There are obvious discrepencies with this, but I won't get in to that here. The way I see it, each serves as a building block or foundation for the other. Judaism lays the foundation for my faith and also provides the truest legal advice on how to live life in the legal sense in accordance to G-d's wishes. The building block on top of that, is Christianity, where my morals are derrived from as I view Christianity as the prime example of a moral life to G-d's accordances. Finally, Islam forms the final building block where I draw the spiritual aspect of life from as I view Islam as the way to live life spiritually within G-d's accordances.

This is where I am at in my faith, all three offer a vital part of my life in their own perfections and without one, the other two are less valuable to me.

This is my story and my views and I would be interesting in seeing others' stories and views on faith.

[fcbayern]

WOW Brotha, that post really made me think. I have never really understood the "My religion is the ONLY correct one" mentality. Every religous believer always thinks other religoins are wrong. THis approach you have of a religous blend or SUPER RELIGION is quite interesting.

I personally believe in we as humans evolved from primates..

[Vladimir]

FSU, I agree completely that other faiths and even other denominations within our faiths can help us grow- indeed early Christians taught the same thing. As a tried-and-true Christian I would obviously reject the notion that it is possible to embrace multiple religions at once, but the ideological foundation is quite similar (for growing from multiple faiths). In fact, I would suppose it was partly learning about Muslim piety that led me to my home in the Orthodox Church. The idea of literally getting on ones knees and bowing before God was incredibly powerful for me- this is something the Protestant Church of my childhood never would have even thought of.

Ultimately for me, coming home to the Orthodox Church, there were a few hurdles or key aspects I reached, these in no way are an Orthodox thing, these were the key steps in my faith. I'm not sure I am up for starting a debate over any of them, but would still like to outline them.

1- A lot of this stuff doesn't matter. To me, even some of the bigger debates of times past simply don't matter. Whether the Theotokos (Virgin Mary) remained a perpetual virgin or not, doesn't really matter. It doesn't change my faith, it doesn't alter the way it is lived out.

2- However, I am willing to accept the teachings of the church fathers (of past and present) because I affirm the idea of apostolic succession. This one was simple for me, Christ is omnipotent, he chose his disciples knowing full well what would happen. This doesn't mean the leaders of the church are infallible by any means, but this is largely why I decided to reject the idea of Protestantism as a whole (though I would affirm the role the Protestant Churches play in the world- I am the star example, I would never have come to the Orthodox Church had I not started as a Protestant).

3- I never really disbelieved in miracles, but they were never an important part of my faith as a Protestant. But they serve as a constant real-world example of Who is in charge. Seeking out reports of various miracles is now a great opportunity I can use to strengthen my faith at any time. (This isn't to imply ALL claims of miracles are accurate).

[judgeposer]

I was born into a Catholic family, but after my confirmation, at about 13/14 or so, I decided to leave the Church. My parents did not force me to continue attending Mass, nor did they pose a significant barrier on my choice not to want to be Catholic anymore. They did let me know, however, of their disappointment. That wasn't enough to change my behavior much less for my belief. During that time I can't say I ever fell into non-belief, but I certainly didn't care for the idea of organized religion, let alone one that required so much of me. God seemed an afterthought, a convenient explanation for some, perhaps even an indulgence for others; but, not for me - I didn't want to spare any time.

By eighteen, I had started college - in New York City. I met a young woman there who was a practicing Pentecostal. Looking back on it now, I was struck by her dedication and unembarrassed approach. She didn't find it odd to be a believer, like she was, while also being so young, and attending one of the more notoriously secular colleges. I can't say the substance of her beliefs impressed me any - since, still, I wasn't religious, nor did I see any usefulness in "believing." I was impressed, however, with her ability to maintain belief in an otherwise hostile environment. I don't know how this affected my subsequent return to the Catholic Church, but I always mention it because it feels like it should have a place in my faith story - being tangentially about religion and all.

I took the Spring semester of my sophomore year off; I became unfocused academically and too distracted personally. In that time off I began to explore religion--quite inexplicably. I can't recall what sparked that initial interest, but once lit, I read anything on the topic of religion I could find--religion generally, sometimes Christianity specifically, sometimes something about another religion. Along the way, I crossed some literature that bashed the Catholic Church, which, I have since found out, some make their living this way. [Now, since I fear this is going on too long - - ] Without tracing all of the intervening steps from that point, I had a reversion to the Catholic faith. Soon after, I began discerning a call to the priesthood. I happen to find a congregation of priests that promised their fidelity to the Pope, wore the standard cassock, and presented an uncompromising orthodox (little "o") presentation of the Catholic faith. Over the course of two years, I studied with them, lived with them, and prayed with them. As providence would have it, I discerned eventually that I was not called to the priesthood, but did, along the way, gain a clarity and maturity in my faith and intellectual approach to belief in God, a lack of which was the reason I had initially left the Church.

I am now (and have been since my early 20's) a practicing Catholic. I believe in the Catholic articles of faith; and I adhere to the Church's moral teachings.

I have now settled into a rather defined spirituality - if you know what I mean? It consists of three major components: 1. the centrality of the Mass (this means going as often as I can, but especially every Sunday); 2. Filial Devotion - understanding God as your Father, and loving him as a young child would his parents, with simplicity; and 3. achieving holiness through ordinary work/the sanctification of work - that we can (I can) become holy through my ordinary life by sanctifying my work for God.

I have, since my discernment, maintained routine spiritual direction - meaning, I have a spiritual counselor, of sorts. In my case, I have had a few, but all Catholic priests, and lucky for me, ones who have shared my intellectual interests. With them I navigate through the spiritual life. He also makes sure that I am keeping to my commitments and afford time for a routine of prayer and the sacraments. This has obviously helped.

[juice]

FSU, thanks for sharing. If you wouldn't mind elaborating, what's your position on Jesus? Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are all mutually exclusive in their takes on Him.

[ilikemyusername]

i believe the far eastern religions nailed it.

[Tyler]

Vlad: It's weird, I use to feel the exact same way at one point in my faith journey.

Juice: I would believe more on the Christian aspect of Jesus, I believe that Jesus was God in corporeal form and is the primary reason I chose to look at Christianity as the moral exemplar of life, becuase Jesus was the example sent to us from Our Father. I do not believe he was the last prophet, as I believe that Muhammad [peace be upon him] was.

Judge: That's a nice story man, I really wish I myself was stronger in the filial piety department

[Dr. B]

I was raised according to the teachings of the Jewish faith. My household was never overly involved in our temple (a reform synagogue) but we made it a point to attend services on the high holy days and during troubling times. With both parents being entrepreneurs providing for a large family, we had a largely secular lifestyle in that the institutions of faith around us did not play a large role in our discipline. We did adhered to many cultural aspects of our faith however. This "lax" attitude fed my agnosticism and I grew up never abandoning the belief in G-d, but instead growing increasingly skeptical of his purpose and presence in my life. Often times to I would feel ostracized for my faith and culture because of the actions of some peers, which I now accredit to childish ignorance and to nothing hateful or detrimental. In a perpetual search for answers, I made the effort to learn all that I could from my peers about the purpose of their faiths and the notions surrounding the absolute which have become institutionalized in various religions. It helped that I had many Christian friends, as well as Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, and generally spiritual friends with whom to engage in learning conversations occasionally. I studied classics in high school and began to understand the old-world mentality regarding faith and took notice of the similar ideas present in old and new faiths alike, leading to my understanding that the details were not as important as the lesson they taught. At this point in my life, I, though aware of my ignorance, began to feel as if I had arrived at many of the same moral ends that religion teaches though through different channels such as logic and understanding - yet I was still unsure of the role of G-d in my mortal life.

Considering my humility, I thought I lived a righteous lifestyle. I took little for granted (also a consequence of my upbringing) and was always the least abrasive of my friends. In this period of my life I took the time to explore Judaism specifically to ultimately determine that the lessons and morays on moral absolutism in the bible were strikingly similar to the conclusions one would reach after studying moral relativism, again reaffirming my belief in the logical consistency of my faith. I began to gravitate back towards Judaism, though still unaware of G-d's direct involvement in my affairs.
~
It was not until I had a near-death experience that I began to understand the lord's presence in my life. Suffering head trauma on my birthday in 2008, I was left incapacitated in a hospital for several days and almost entirely bedridden for a subsequent two weeks. During this time I struggled with many emotions including anxiety, fear, anger, confusion, depression, and a feeling of worthlessness to name a few. I acted highly uncharacteristically in my initial recovery, but was met with a debilitating sense of remorse when I got back on my feet. Though the initial recovery was concluded, I was beginning down the road to work harder than I ever had before to salvage my enrollment in my classes, my professional development, and my relations with friends and family against whom I had transgressed, while still struggling with habitual pain and emotional instability.

It was during this time that I had an epiphany. I realized that though I was humble before, I was never truly subservient to G-d. I had taken for granted one of the most important facets of myself - my life. I now understood that though we be united in the kingdom of heaven, the reason G-d keeps us alive in this mortal realm is to learn: learn how to better ourselves and others so that we may find real happiness and truly appreciate the gift of life we are given, so that all G-d's creatures may proliferate and share in our happiness. I begged for forgiveness on Yom Kippur and prioritized my goals so that the ones with the greatest utility to others would take precedent. Though I may procure personal satisfaction in the process, I determined that my happiness was G-d's reward for my selflessness. After my revelation I was endowed with a great sense of strength and capability and was able to reach my immediate goals, and have since made greater strides to achieve happiness and fulfill my charitable endeavors.

To the atheist or like-minded skeptic, this may seem like a self-fulfilling prophecy, but during my time of need I continually felt G-d's presence with such force that it is still taxing for me to describe in words. I have made a continuing effort now to define what exactly is means to be Jewish, and unfortunately, lacking a definite cultural community in the town in which I currently reside is an obstacle to my understanding - though it is not an impasse, as I am able to interpret the bible in my isolation to later, with a conference of peers, discuss.

I make no claim to have anything figured out for certain, but my concept of self, of who I have become, is reason enough to believe that I am at peace with my faith, and I happily anticipate learning more. Especially in the absence of other teachers, I hope this thread may serve to enlighten others and not degenerate into petty quarrels about which path to virtue is more appropriate. Thank you FSU. Edited June 2, 2009 by Dr. B

[Tyler]

Wow Dr.B. Thank you for sharing! I don't know many Jewish people who are as pious as you are and therefore never really met what I thought to be the model Jew. Thanks for sharing!

[judgeposer]

Judge: That's a nice story man, I really wish I myself was stronger in the filial piety department

Thanks. If you're ever interested, St. Josemaria Escriva placed great emphasis on filial devotion in his writings. He also taught us that we could become saints in our ordinary lives; as you can tell, I have learned/taken a lot from him. He was recently canonized too, so his writings have a timliness that a lot of other spiritual writers don't, at first, present, especially those of antiquity.

In a perpetual search for answers, I made the effort to learn all that I could from my peers about the purpose of their faiths and the notions surrounding the absolute which have become institutionalized in various religions. It helped that I had many Christian friends, as well as Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, and generally spiritual friends with whom to engage in learning conversations occasionally. I studied classics in high school and began to understand the old-world mentality regarding faith and took notice of the similar ideas present in old and new faiths alike, leading to my understanding that the details were not as important as the lesson they taught. At this point in my life, I, though aware of my ignorance, began to feel as if I had arrived at many of the same moral ends that religion teaches though through different channels such as logic and understanding - yet I was still unsure of the role of G-d in my mortal life.

I too benefited from a diverse group of friends. Of my two life-long best friends, one is a devout Muslim, the other is now a devout Catholic, but of a quite more mystical brand, having dabbled for some years as a Rastafarian. The role of Classics in your life seems to have played the same role of philosophy in mine.

Considering my humility, I thought I lived a righteous lifestyle. I took little for granted (also a consequence of my upbringing) and was always the least abrasive of my friends. In this period of my life I took the time to explore Judaism specifically to ultimately determine that the lessons and morays on moral absolutism in the bible were strikingly similar to the conclusions one would reach after studying moral relativism, again reaffirming my belief in the logical consistency of my faith. I began to gravitate back towards Judaism, though still unaware of G-d's direct involvement in my affairs.

I love your bit about moral relativism. I have long thought the same. In my own experience, studying philosophy drew me closer to my eventual faith/religion. Of course, it usually has the opposite effect on most other undergraduates. For the lion's share of us, however, we knew we had to abandon the all too common moral relativism/skepticism espoused by our peers (and even some mentors). So, while most of my classmates did not experience a similar return to belief in God or membership in a Church, we all did, at least, understand the inflexibility of life, that logic and reason produces corners, and not curves. We might not know the exact contours, but, in the least, remain knowing that they exist, somehow.

[Damethe]

Ugh okay, well I'm sort of going through a rough spot with my religion. But here is my stor so far.

My Parents raised me to be very Catholic, and so I believe what the have told me. before I met my boyfriend I thought that my ideas were right, I was very closed minded and not wanting to see other peoples views and beliefs. My boyfriends has helped me tremendously to become more open minded and to be able to see other points of view. Right now I am going through a sort of period of uhh I dont know how to put it. I'm not quite sure what I believe anymore, Im not sure if I believe what I do because I really believe that or because thats what my parents have told me to believe. So Im sort of lost right now. So reading all of your post about other religions and your religious journies is helping me.

[Tyler]

Damethe, it seems to me that you've fallen into the category of Agnostic. This is not a bad thing. The breakdown of Agnostic into its Greek roots simple mean a-gnosis, or "without knowledge." This doesn't mean you're dumb or anything of that connotation, it simply mean you're without knowledge on what you believe. The most important thing to do at this stage, in my belief, is to ask yourself what things matter to you the most? Can you get your questions answered by any specific religion? Is the religion you're in suit your lifestyle? If not, how can you change this? Would you rather change your lifestyle or your religion. Remember, there is more than one path to God, you just need to find the one that you need....of course, that assumes you still want to believe in and accept the LORD as your savior. Might I also interest you in reading up on Bahai'i religion. It's definately not for me, but many of my agnostic friends have found solidarity in the teachings of Bahhalluah.

[judgeposer]

Ugh okay, well I'm sort of going through a rough spot with my religion. But here is my stor so far.

My Parents raised me to be very Catholic, and so I believe what the have told me. before I met my boyfriend I thought that my ideas were right, I was very closed minded and not wanting to see other peoples views and beliefs. My boyfriends has helped me tremendously to become more open minded and to be able to see other points of view. Right now I am going through a sort of period of uhh I dont know how to put it. I'm not quite sure what I believe anymore, Im not sure if I believe what I do because I really believe that or because thats what my parents have told me to believe. So Im sort of lost right now. So reading all of your post about other religions and your religious journies is helping me.

Damethe, it seems to me that you've fallen into the category of Agnostic. This is not a bad thing. The breakdown of Agnostic into its Greek roots simple mean a-gnosis, or "without knowledge." This doesn't mean you're dumb or anything of that connotation, it simply mean you're without knowledge on what you believe. The most important thing to do at this stage, in my belief, is to ask yourself what things matter to you the most? Can you get your questions answered by any specific religion? Is the religion you're in suit your lifestyle? If not, how can you change this? Would you rather change your lifestyle or your religion. Remember, there is more than one path to God, you just need to find the one that you need....of course, that assumes you still want to believe in and accept the LORD as your savior. Might I also interest you in reading up on Bahai'i religion. It's definately not for me, but many of my agnostic friends have found solidarity in the teachings of Bahhalluah.

If I may disagree some - and FSU, since I have nothing but respect for you, I comment with nothing but charity (so if I seem at all flippant, that was not my intention; I simply want to offer a candid reaction and my thoughts).

We cannot treat religion or finding faith like we would treat buying a new pair of sneakers; it isn't a consumer good. Concerns emphasizing finding which one is "right for you," in my mind, don't properly prioritize what it means to search for someone's religious vocation. Since religious faith teaches us about how to behave, and places on us distinct requirements about what we must do in this world in order to reach eternity (at least in the case of the monotheistic faiths), choosing one over another is truly a life-and-death matter. We cannot forget the possibility that if we're wrong, through some fault of our own, there is a chance that that will have implications, and possibly negative ones, for our souls.

One's religion, I think, should be "chosen" as any vocation, which is something more profound, and has meaning beyond routine choices we make. Why I think so, I hope will come out in this post.

Thinking of one's religious quest in terms of a vocation means answering the question of where, if anywhere, do you feel drawn, which I do not mean in some sentimental sense, or the sense that it appeals to our likes or preferences. That is not to say that these are not factors in discerning a vocation, as they do serve as clues/cues we have to be receptive about. I mean drawn in the sense of 'Where is God calling you to?' Of course it is highly likely that you will feel drawn to a religion in which you feel comfortable, one that provides sensible answers to your questions, and requires of you things you can reasonably give - in that sense, your preferences will serve as guideposts, for sure. But, by placing pleasing God first, by seeking to answer the question of "Where is God calling me?" you keep the priority of God's demands above your own. That you feel at home or that you get your questions answered, etc., seem then, to me, confirmation of your vocation, not the purpose of it.

To sum, religion is more than man's search for God, if it is that at all. Truly, shouldn't we think of it as God's search for man? If we accept at least that God created this world, created us with a specific purpose in mind, then it follows that fulfilling that purpose is our vocation. To put it in a different way, we're the created ones, God is the creator - the will of the creator trumps ours.

This is perhaps too crude or reductive an analogy, but imagine you created a game, complete with rules and such. You draft players who must complete your game according to your rules, which, while flexible, still stand as firm rules of order, voilations of which only you get to determine. Remembering that it is your game, with your rules, players, in playing out your game, would prefer to play differently or happen to break those rules. What do we make of their behavior? According to your rules, have they played successfully? I think of the world, which God created, much in the same way, with the stark difference that we're all trying to figure out what God wants - what are his rules? Really, though, our preferences matter little since he does have rules (as each religion teaches). We have to discern which are the ones we have to follow, not want to follow, or prefer to follow. That doesn't mean pick a religion that requires the most lifestyle change or that asks the most lofty requirements of you. It just means give thought to what God wants, not what you want.

When we place God's demands of us before our preferences of lifestyle and religion, we can see that the following statements misconstrue our human obligation before God, in the ways I will explain:

"The most important thing to do at this stage . . . is to ask yourself what things matter to you the most?" - what if what matters most to you doesn't really matter to God? How does a materialistic person answer this question and produce an outcome satisfying to God?

"Can you get your questions answered by any specific religion?" - ok, this one is important just the way it is. If a religion doesn't appeal to your reason, which we have to assume functions properly (or else we're doomed in all events of life), then you should remove it from consideration.

"Is the religion you're in suit your lifestyle?" - why does your lifestyle matter more than what God wants? The lifestyle of a pedophile doesn't please God any - how could it? Religions, generally, seek to make us perfect beings, at least with respect to our actions and deeds. If you work on Sundays, but the Christian faiths all teach that Sundays we must pay homage to God (i.e. the Catholic Church requires this in a formal way by making it a sin not to attend Sunday Mass), then does that mean necessarily that the Christian faiths aren't for you? Isn't it possible your lifestyle might be less than ideal, and might be something different from what God wants or expects from you?

"Would you rather change your lifestyle or your religion?" - this, again, seems to misprioritize the relationship we must have to God if we accept that he created us.

"Remember, there is more than one path to God, you just need to find the one that you need." - there is more than one religion, but that doesn't mean there is necessarly more than one path to God. It is either the case that all religions are wrong, or that only one of them is right. This is elemental logic - the principle of excluded middle.

---Last thoughts---
All religions are not the same. To say that all religions are the same stikes me as abysmally ignorant of what the different religions actually teach. Also, it seems an irresponsible thing to say since religions do differ, if they didn't there'd be one religion. It think the claim that all religions are the same, for our purposes, is also wrongheaded because it shows indifference to obvious differences. The implicit assumption is that the distinctive teachings of the world's religions do not matter. It also suggests that religion is not about finding truth, but about something else, perhaps satisfying the believer.

Of course most religions teach, at base, quite the same stuff: be a good person - but that reduces their respective teachings too far. How each defines "good," or what each teaches we need to do to become "good persons" differs. This reduces religion to the lowest common denominator, which might as easily be the least-essential component as it might be the most essential component. Again, this is unfairly reductive.

[Scalliwag]

here is my synopsis of the secrets of life so expect some weird examples. For one, wrestling has always amazed me. The talent that it takes for these huge men to put on such a show and not kill each other is the fascinating part to me. That is not what the show is about but it's the part I see when I watch.
When it comes to life, universe and all of the amazing things does not leave any room that it was some sort of accident. Even Stephen Hawkings believes there is a creator because things are just too complex for this all just to be an accident or a boom.
Most accidents end in disaster is what life has taught me... especially the one that just claimed one of my fingers.
It is too hard for me too type all my thoughts on the subjects and I don't have most the answers anyways.

I am not a religious person but I do believe very strongly in treating people nice even if I don't agree with them. We have so much intolerance that we could really be better off without. Racicts, homophobics are pathetic to me.
Same with the jerk that killed that doctor because of his version of his religion. I guess he did not think his creator could have taken the guy out if he wanted to?
Jeez, treat people like you want to be treated and remember somebody that pisses you off may just be having a bad day.
Oh, and my new meds are working

[soldier92]

I personally don't believe in a god, but do not deny the possibility that one exists. It would be ignorant for me to think that I am certain of something I cannot prove. This brings me to my belief. I believe conciousness is in itself the ultimate accomplishment.

I do not believe I was created by anything more than the outcome of probability. Some people say this takes the meaning away from life. I disagree. They say that if you are the product of random chance than there is no significance to your existance. I believe that this is what makes existance and conciousness so amazing and special. The fact that out of nothing but time and matter living beings arose, with the ability to think and reason, learn and communicate. It amazes me that life exists. I don't think somebody made life. And I do not know why people are concious, but I believe the simple fact that they are is the only thing that is important.

I believe that when you die your conciousness ceases to require a physical form to exists. As you age and learn and become more aware and knowledgable your conciousness can exist as it's own entity. The body dies because it is no longer needed as a host to carry your conciousness. Death is not the end of awareness but rather a higher order of it.

I understand why people would believe a god would exist but I consider life to be seperate from any outside forces, it is special simply because it exists, because it is that way, not because it was made that way.

[Sonthert]

I am an atheist.

I have faith in the nobility of man, of his intelligence, and his untrammeled spirit of never giving up and always marching forward in progress and industry. I believe that, as Charlie Chaplin put it, that man must be good, the invention of the airplane and the radio demonstrate it. Why would man invent such a thing if he didn't care about being able to interact with his fellow man? I have faith that releasing oneself from religious superstition is the closest route to attain peace among men. Atheists have no wars, no strife, no genocides, they seek only to live with their fellow man in peace and harmony, ultimately, although some men lose their way down a path of disharmony. I believe atheism to be the only truly moral path, but some flavors of religion come close to a true morality. I believe that only complete intellectual honesty can achieve enlightenment. I believe in the enlightenment of Buddha, I believe in Jung's archetypes, but I disbelieve modern psychiatry and psychology. I believe in absolute moral code, of human freedom, and in the Golden Rule "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you." I believe that all things are a matter of probability and statistics. Flipping a coin 5 times and getting heads five times is no more improbable than getting H-T-T-H-H.

My atheism runs about 70% Rational, 20% Humanist, 10% Naturalist.

As evidenced by my faith, I am an axiologic atheist, that is I believe that humanity must be higher than any god, whether they exist or not. I believe that superstition and religion have been replaced by science and the Laws of Man. I'm a metaphysical absolutist, I believe that there is no such thing as supernatural beings. I also subscribe to the ideas of ignosticism, that is the question "Is there a god?" or the statement "There is a god" to be nonsensical. I also strongly subscribe to Rationalistic atheism, the idea that all human knowledge must be rational and deduced. Atheism is a religion, its adherents being many and variegated. It is a rare atheist who has no moral code or no faith-based beliefs. What is a moral code? Its a system of rules you live by because you have faith in their correctness.

I don't believe in afterlife, in ghosts, in any semblance of heaven, hell, nirvana, gehenna, etc. I don't believe in angels or demons or psychic powers. I don't believe in witchcraft, in familiar magic, or voodoo. I believe Mohammad was a real man, but I believe Jesus was a fictional character. I believe that when people believe god is talking to them, its their imagination, but I can't really say for sure on that one, its a matter of faith. I believe circumcision to be mutilation, whether performed on a man or a woman. I don't disbelieve that all things have an essential spirit, but I don't believe in souls. I'm undecided about auras and Kirlian Photograhpy, but am inclined to disbelieve in them.

People often ask me "What happens to you after you die, if you don't believe in god?" I reply "What happens to the light when you turn off the lamp?"

FSU; Refrain from the moderator-like disclaimers please. Everybody knows the rules, if they are violated, we will appropriately enforce them.

[Tyler]

Judgeposer: I agree with you to an extent but I must respectfully disagree with some points. I didn't mean "find the right religion for you" as in "shopping for shoes." I simply meant that one must find a religious belief that matches what their hearts and mind agree with; insofar, as some people might not believe in just one monotheistic God. Also, by finding one that fits your life style, it is a matter of if you chose "X" religion, will it conflict with your ideals? If say, someone who was homosexual were to chose Christianity but interprites the Bible and sees that homosexuality is condemned (I do not think it does) then they could be causing themselves more pain by trying to fit into a mold they never will be able to fit in to. I do agree with you that all religions are not the same, it is in my belief -- that any person who is a "good" person (term can meany many things to many people) has the ability to go to heaven if on the day of rapture they "see the light" and accept the Lord God as their savior (That's what I believe).

Eric: I can see your points and they do seem logical; however, I must disagree with you as per evidence pointed out in soldier's post, that things are too complicated to have happened simply by accident/big bang/strings/ect. To me, the only thing that makes sense, logically, is intelligent design. In the end of everything, the way I view it is that if Christians/Jews/Muslims/buddhist/ect... were wrong, at least they lived a good life; while if we are right, we're that much closer to God and achieving the ultimate goal in life, spiritual oneness with God. I do agree with your idea that the main things in life seem to be (from how I read your post) loving ones slef, neighbor, and stranger all the same. And if most religions followed their sciptures perfectly, the world would be a much better place. "Be kind to your ailens, because you know their face. For you were once and ailen yourself in the land of Egypt." Not the verbatem quote from the Bible, but it's very close.

[RingsMaster]

i am personally agnostic. i believe something or someone put us here whether it was a big bang or a G-d. im not quite sure that the bible is accurate. i have read it and dont agree. i think that the bible was like a game of telephone. stories were told for such a long time and people have a tendency to exaggerate. therefore when it finally got to paper it was not what it started as. i believe that Jesus was a man, just not the man that he is made out to be. im torn between the evolution theory and the theory of the church. in more ways the evolution theory makes more sense to me. science tells us that we may have evolved from primates, and instances have been found to prove this fact. therefore i lean towards that side. i have a hard time believing that something is there or will happen. i am a person of fact, facts talk, and the the Lord put us on earth just doesnt make sense to me. i have no idea how our universe was started, or any others for that matter. and i think its supposed to be that way. if we knew everything then we would be super beings lol and we would have no need for religion because we would be know it all's. for all i know our universe in the sparkle in the lords eyes. i would love to know how our universe was created, with facts of course lol.i think its great that people have faith in something, no matter what it may be. however i think its a scape goat. i believe that people would first blame G-d for their misfortune rather than taking personal responsibility. i am a heavy believer in karma. when you treat someone like crap you in turn will get something like that. do on to others as you would do on to yourself. that i know for sure.

i also think that religion causes more problems than it solves. many use religion in war, claiming that their beliefs made them do it. i also believe that when people say their creator is a great man/woman and only want to help their children, that that is a lie. if your G-d was a caring man why would he kill so many innocent people in acts like 9-11. i have alot of questions if this being is real, i cannot say he is or isnt though, because frankly i dont know if he/she does or doesnt exist. i would truly like to believe that we are all put here with good intentions, even the murders are the rapists serve there purpose to show us common folk how not to live our lives.

i would like to say that if G-d is real, any of them, that they would show themselves because i have alot of unanswered questions that neither i or the church can answer.

and the only religion i agree with 100% is buhdism, its also the only one that really makes an sense to me, can you think of a better message, love life and act kindly to others. thats the winner for me.

[Sonthert]

Eric: I can see your points and they do seem logical; however, I must disagree with you as per evidence pointed out in soldier's post, that things are too complicated to have happened simply by accident/big bang/strings/ect. To me, the only thing that makes sense, logically, is intelligent design. In the end of everything, the way I view it is that if Christians/Jews/Muslims/buddhist/ect... were wrong, at least they lived a good life; while if we are right, we're that much closer to God and achieving the ultimate goal in life, spiritual oneness with God. I do agree with your idea that the main things in life seem to be (from how I read your post) loving ones slef, neighbor, and stranger all the same. And if most religions followed their sciptures perfectly, the world would be a much better place. "Be kind to your ailens, because you know their face. For you were once and ailen yourself in the land of Egypt." Not the verbatem quote from the Bible, but it's very close.

Thats a leap. If you flip a coin 10 times in succession, the chances are quite low that heads will come up 10 times in a row. 1:1024 if my math serves me well. On the other hand, the combination H-T-H-H-T-H-T-H-H-T in that order will only come up 1:1024, too. A person might look as a 1:1024 possibility of 10 heads in a row as quite improbable. The universe, our planet, humans, everything are the results of millions of "coin flips". It is indeed a unique result...highly improbable, quite true...but it is only one possible permutation, each just as unlikely as our "reality". You look at it as marvelous and impossible, that such an improbable series of random chances produced everything. I say, you're looking at the result as spectacular. Is H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-T less spectacular than H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H? Perhaps, if thats your viewpoint...but they have the same likelihood. The same thing is true here...you are looking at everything in the universe, biased, and thinking the result is miraculous...but from random chance, it is no more or less probable than any of the possibilities that didn;t come to pass...if H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H came up, and you were amazed, you might assume some divine hand had to influence it because of its improbability...unless you had bet on all tails..then you would curse your rotten luck. Your marvel of the improbability of the universe and everything in it sets you up to believe in a divine hand. If you just view it as one possibility...then the need for divine influence disappears.

It is in your view, that these people will lead a good life if they worship these things. I disagree. I don't have variances from my moral code. I live without fear or apprehension...I live with little remorse and no regrets or guilt. Again, not deviating from my moral code. These are by-products, in my opinion, of these religions. When a religious person does wrong, they seek absolution. They may be wracked with guilt or regret or fear of going to hell. I have no such inclinations. My life is free of these negative emotions. I am a pious man, I lead a good life and am good to other people, and all without the negative emotions of religion. The bible says true believers are people that follow the word of the bible, naturally, without intervention...am I a true believer? Am I a man who god would smile heartily on for I follow all the teachings of the bible without internal struggle? When you have no internal struggle with right and wrong and can only do right because of the removal of negative emotions that religion superimposes on people, happiness, tranquility and internal peace follow. I feel sorry that religious people can't experience the spiritual high and personal satisfaction I feel all the time at rest without fear, hatred or apprehension; religion must block it. You can't see that until you are where I am. If you did feel what I felt, you wouldn't need church or religion or god. You would be a good person because it is the most obvious, right thing to do; not because the bible or a preacher says its the right thing. Thats my view anyways. When I say "you" I mean other people, religious ones mostly, not FSU specifically. If there was a god, I think moral atheists would be closer to him. The Ten Commandments don't say anything about believing in god at all...atheists don't have religious wars, they don't bomb abortion clinics, or have inquisitions...yet we can be pious people...which is better, then? If all the positives of your (I mean FSU here) spiritual life can be had without the baggage that religion carries around with it (Whether in terms of global conflict or negative emotions). Why not try moral atheism? Its beautiful...

[Canon]

I was raised a Christian. as far as the definition of raised goes.. i followed it myself, i had my parents take me to church and followed it blindly. I have gone to many different types of christian churches. each church had their own set of beliefs and had the bible to support their views. I stopped going to church about a year before i joined the military, during that time i had a lot of time to think, which i didn't. once i joined the military i did start thinking about it, and i didn't like how one part of Christianity said that this was the right way and had their facts and another had their own facts. short story to this, i thought some of the things said in the new testament were far fetched. in spring 2008 i met someone who believed in Islam, we had some deep conversations about religion. before then i always thought of Islam the way every uneducated person in America does. after that i decided to study Islam and their beliefs to get a better understanding (mostly to figure out why the guy i knew turned from Christianity to Islam).

i bought the idiots guide to understanding Islam and the Qua ran. i studied Islam deeply and the religion made a lot more sense then Christianity ever did for me.

as far as my own personal beliefs, i do believe that the Qua ran was God's last word. i believe the bible was God's word at one point but has been corrupted by man as many religions are. but there are a few things i do not agree with in the Qua ran, the fact that men cannot wear jewelry, and the fact that dogs are an abomination by God are a few.

right now i believe in the god of Abraham, i may settle on one religion eventually and follow it as i have followed Christianity. but for now that is the extent of my beliefs.

[Tyler]

Eric: "If all the positives of your (I mean FSU here) spiritual life can be had without the baggage that religion carries around with it (Whether in terms of global conflict or negative emotions). Why not try moral atheism?"

Because life is more fufilling to me with my beliefs and my faith in God; and to me moral atheism sounds empty, cold, and unfufilling, if it works for you -- that's great, but it's not right for me.

Canon: Your story sounds a lot like mine in some ways, Islam is a great religion with a very rich history and background, but then again, most religions have very rich histories and backgrounds

[Damethe]

Wow all these post have given me alot to think about.Thank you FSU for your first reply to me, it really helped and got me thinking. I know that I do still believe in God, but past that I am questioning everything I have ever been taught to believe in. Its really stressfull and confusing, but I think I need to do some soul searching and mabye research about other religions (not that I am going to change my religion, just that I am curious to what other religions have to offer).

[Tyler]

If you're interested, I would recc. picking up a copy of "A brief Introduction to the Old Testament" by Michael Coogan and a copy of the Oxford Annotated Bible, it's approached at a more academic mindset than theological, assuming you want to start with Christianity. If I had all my undergrad books with me I could give you countless numbers of books on Islam, Judaism, Jainism, Buddhism, and Hinduism Good luck with your search and I hope everything works out the best for you no matter what happens on your spirit journey!

[judgeposer]

Judgeposer: I agree with you to an extent but I must respectfully disagree with some points. I didn't mean "find the right religion for you" as in "shopping for shoes." I simply meant that one must find a religious belief that matches what their hearts and mind agree with; insofar, as some people might not believe in just one monotheistic God. Also, by finding one that fits your life style, it is a matter of if you chose "X" religion, will it conflict with your ideals? If say, someone who was homosexual were to chose Christianity but interprites the Bible and sees that homosexuality is condemned (I do not think it does) then they could be causing themselves more pain by trying to fit into a mold they never will be able to fit in to. I do agree with you that all religions are not the same, it is in my belief -- that any person who is a "good" person (term can meany many things to many people) has the ability to go to heaven if on the day of rapture they "see the light" and accept the Lord God as their savior (That's what I believe).

Yeah, I should've said that I didn't think you were suggesting the two were the same thing - sorry for the implication. Thanks also for the clarifications.

[Barnaby]

I was born Catholic, attended Catholic school almost my whole life, except for 4.5 years of it. During this time there was nothing to make me see or feel "God's" presence. As I went through my tenure in the Catholic life, I only came up with more and more and more questions rather than answers. Why are there examples in the bible of God killing off his own children? I forget exact verses, but at one point God sends down a herd of bears to kill off some children. Job is rewarded for protecting his guest (an angel) from a mob at his door, by offering his daughter to them. Why aren't dinosaurs in the bible? Where is Jesus mentioned ANYWHERE in history, other than bible?

At the end of the day, any question I had was answered in circular logic. The bible is the word of God. "how do we know this?" Because the bible says so. "But why believe the bible?" Because the Bible is infallible. "But how do you know its unfallible?" BECAUSE THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD!!! and so it goes.. But you must have faith I'm told... Ah.. Ok, let's have faith then. Like in Santa Claus.. oh.. yea.. oops..

I think one of the biggest turn offs for me was in high school, we got to tour the Priest's Rectory. Vow of poverty my ass. Sure, they don't technically own anything, but what they are provided is complete luxury. A full kitchen staff to cook them all their meals. A mahogany library, a closest full of booze, 10 Lazy boys, with satelite TV.. They were hooked UP! How am I supposed to look to these hypocrites for guidance, when they did not practice what they preach?

Then as I get older and look into it more, more questions get raised. Like how is it Jesus was born in Christmas time, when the bible makes mention of events that would put his birth more towards springtime.. hmm.. Oh, because early Christians needed converts from pagan religions, so they moved the birth of their savior to a major pagan holiday. How much else was made up to suit their own needs. As I did more research into religions in general, I found that Jesus's traits are NOT unique. There are MANY examples of religious messiahs, all being born around Christmas, born of a virgin birth, dies, and raised from the dead after 3 days. Has 12 disciples.

If you actually look at what religion most closely follows Christianity, its Egyptian mythology. Almost to a tee. And this was based around an even earlier practice. Astrology. Jesus is a representation of the Sun. Early man charted the Sun's path through the sky, and came up with the zodiac, the oldest symbol of man's history. All of the Christian story has ties to astrology. It was invented to win over the pagans at the time, by using what they already believed in, with a different twist.

At the end of the day, I can put no faith in Christianity very much for most of what Eric has stated. The moral obligations that are put onto followers. The lack of personal responsibility, as it must've been God's plan when something happens. I'll pray for this, and that, instead of doing it yourself.

What do I believe in? Us? To put it simply, we are all god. You, me, your cat, that spider, the earth, the wind, everything. We are all part of a vast energy that for some reason or another, has assembled the way it has. I think we can tap into that energy, and be in touch with more than ourselves. How we got here is not that important of a question. Its where we are going. What we are doing. I really only have 1 rule to live by. Do whatever you want, as long as it doesn't mess with others. I don't think it needs to be much more complex than that.

There is much more of course I could talk about, but hey.. Shouldn't we be doing this in person, around a hookah!!! Edited June 4, 2009 by Barnaby