Census Taker 0, Hounds 1 At End Of First Round

[TheScotsman]

Has anyone else had to deal with a census knobhead toting a GPS around?

Man, they are a determined lot, got over my shishkabob-skewer covered gate, made it up a 1/3 mile driveway walking in the mosquitoes, and got mobbed by mad wolfhounds before retreating.

I never got to chase them off myself. Found out from neighbor what they were doing. Guess the census began early.

I need a bigger gate. Maybe some concertina wire is in order. .

[Moefasaaa]

cut em some slack!!!! haha I applied to be one but never got the job, but I mean...it's a census. they're not trying to get you to buy anything

[liquidglass]

yeah, agreed, they're just doing their job. My mom helped with the last census, and she had mostly nice people but a few assholes that would scare the shit out of her just to scare her off rather than acting like decent human beings and either asking her to leave or answering a few questions.


If I was hold enough at the time, there would have been plenty of kicked ass to write about and the population would have dropped dramatically in our area.

Dont' be an asshole

[tinyj316]

yeah, agreed, they're just doing their job. My mom helped with the last census, and she had mostly nice people but a few assholes that would scare the shit out of her just to scare her off rather than acting like decent human beings and either asking her to leave or answering a few questions.


If I was hold enough at the time, there would have been plenty of kicked ass to write about and the population would have dropped dramatically in our area.

Dont' be an asshole

QFT... Census data is extremely useful, and when people mess with it, it makes life hard for so many people... So much money is pegged to census data that even a 1% change could equate to millions of dollars in capital improvements, roads, etc...

[TheScotsman]

But it's NOT the census.
it's a census taker GPS locating front doors.

big difference.


One has to wonder just what that is all about. I see now that it's a UN mandate. Screw them. the hounds are looking forward to butt-lunch hope next one runs slower.

[Rani]

Has anyone else had to deal with a census knobhead toting a GPS around?

Man, they are a determined lot, got over my shishkabob-skewer covered gate, made it up a 1/3 mile driveway walking in the mosquitoes, and got mobbed by mad wolfhounds before retreating.

I never got to chase them off myself. Found out from neighbor what they were doing. Guess the census began early.

I need a bigger gate. Maybe some concertina wire is in order. .

Wow..... The sky is falling somewhere! We're in agreement yet again. I don't take part in the census. As far as I'm concerned the less information the gub'nint has on me the better. Last time I tore up the paperwork and refused to answer the door. Didn't answer the phone calls, either, not even the threatening one on my voice mail reminding me failure to fill out the census information was a felony. Not planning on cooperating with the one coming up next year either! And before I get verbally slapped in here I remind you the last time my people got counted we ended up on a reservation. No thank you.

'Rani

[liquidglass]

Actually still not a big difference it's all parts of the same machine.

And Again, it's a dumb ass move to prevent any part of the census. It's a needed thing and it's been around for quite sometime.

So b/c they're checking addresses and marking them on Census issued gps units then they deserve to be attacked by dogs? You my friend are extremely ignorant in this aspect. And if you keep the same outlook to other parts of your life, then I feel bad for you and whoever is forced to be around you.

[liquidglass]

Has anyone else had to deal with a census knobhead toting a GPS around?

Man, they are a determined lot, got over my shishkabob-skewer covered gate, made it up a 1/3 mile driveway walking in the mosquitoes, and got mobbed by mad wolfhounds before retreating.

I never got to chase them off myself. Found out from neighbor what they were doing. Guess the census began early.

I need a bigger gate. Maybe some concertina wire is in order. .

Wow..... The sky is falling somewhere! We're in agreement yet again. I don't take part in the census. As far as I'm concerned the less information the gub'nint has on me the better. Last time I tore up the paperwork and refused to answer the door. Didn't answer the phone calls, either, not even the threatening one on my voice mail reminding me failure to fill out the census information was a felony. Not planning on cooperating with the one coming up next year either! And before I get verbally slapped in here I remind you the last time my people got counted we ended up on a reservation. No thank you.

'Rani

A census was not done before your (and mine remember) Ancestors were moved to a reservation. So those don't compare. I know you said you don't hold a grudge, but seems a lot like it, just my observation.


However, I don't think you deserve to get verbally slapped, it sounds like you handled it politely and reasonably even if some of the census takers weren't operating at your maturity level. Rather than putting dogs out on someone involved and risking injury, death, lawsuit. You just refused to participate, which is honestly completely understandable.

[Sherwood]

the last time my people got counted we ended up on a reservation.

The 2000 census?

[Rani]

the last time my people got counted we ended up on a reservation.

The 2000 census?

Sigh........ it was a sarchastic comment and yet a true one.

Honestly, I believe the census information is used for other things. The government has never denied accessing that information for use in racial profiling neighborhoods, etc. Ask your representative directly and watch how they don't answer your question. What's more Scotsman never said he sicced the dogs onto the Census worker. He was pretty clear they came in onto his property past his gate that was obviously unwelcoming. Enter the property of a dog owner without notifying the owner and you do so at your own risk.

'Rani

[liquidglass]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Govt sanctioned employees are allowed to do so, and since it's not for a malicious purpose it's permitted.

It's not so much if he did "sic" the dogs on the person as his perverse enjoyment of the fact.


They won't deny that the census is used for racial information. Honestly it's what helps to draw the lines for areas during elections. (can't remember the name right now)

So how exactly would they racial profile a neighborhood? It's not like they're going to set up a concentration camp (don't get started again) in a certain area simply because of a certain race. It would be much easier to racially profile a neighborhood by the race of criminals and types of crimes committed within it. Be it black, white, asian, etc. They don't need a census every 10 years to tell them that just look at police records.

[TheScotsman]

Actually still not a big difference it's all parts of the same machine.

And Again, it's a dumb ass move to prevent any part of the census. It's a needed thing and it's been around for quite sometime.

So b/c they're checking addresses and marking them on Census issued gps units then they deserve to be attacked by dogs? You my friend are extremely ignorant in this aspect. And if you keep the same outlook to other parts of your life, then I feel bad for you and whoever is forced to be around you.

No, they deserve to be attacked by working guard dogs when they trespass un anounced, and uninvited, and seem too stupid to understand a 3x4 foot bright yellow sign with black letters that says:
"working dogs on patrol"
"enter at own risk"

Ya, the big sign on the gate he climbed over.
right next to the intercom he never used.

That is what a guard dog does, deters and detains trespassers... or I would have a poodle.

There is a reason for a 1/3 mile driveway, 8' game fences, and a giant steel gate with 135 acres around me... I don't want people around me that I don't choose to be there. My neighbor said the guy insisted on checking his outbuildings to "determine if they were habitable". Then he ran they guy off by saying he was headed for his shotgun. (my neighbor isn't very social, and he is the county attorney) The dogs need to take a chomp out of that census fool just to prove darwin was correct.

As far as importance, I debate that completely.
this township has 165 persons living in it, it had 164 in the 1990 census, and 163 in the 2000. I don't think we make much difference in the number of reps anyhow... and how many flush toilets there are here is really not going to make any impact on the state of the nation.

Show me where Article 1 section 2 of the constitution says the gov't needs my phone number on the census? Why they have any need of my ethnic origin, where I lived 1 year ago, Military service status (especially since homeland security decided to classify all vets as a national security risk. Where is my right against self-incrimination?) How about your income? remember, this census is going to make the rounds through the gov't channels, it's not private. The IRS may want to see YOUR income, just to be sure that GPS location matches your income potential. Hey, wait for your property tax to go up based on your income comparisson to this address! but that isn't needed under art 1 sect 2. There are 8 questions about your income. Screw that! 18 questions about your employment.

They want to know if I have a phone at 3 pages past where they ask your phone number. What retard came up with that waste of ink?

Do I have trouble bathing and dressing? Just how is that pertinant to the number of congressmen?

Religious affiliation? WTF? where are those sep of church & satate liberal waccos when the gov't is demanding to know your religion. That is not something they need to decide where to build roads.

Besides, they are calling this "the American Community Survey" not a census. It's data mining, and an invasion of privacy.

Here was Ron Paul's summary. http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst071204.htm Once again I find myself agreeing with him.

The choices are:
1) lie and fill out everything missleading (what most of the neighbors I have talked to say they plan to do)

or 2) ignore the bastards. If they mail it I will bullshit my way through it, or throw it in the trash can. Since I have no mailbox, and use a box at the UPS store, I think they can kiss my arse... on the other hand, since ACORN is the prime contractor, and they have a history of hiring people convicted of ID fraud... if they show up, they can definitely kiss my arse. At my age, I have never filled one out yet, no point in breaking a winning stratagy!

I do like the idea of large sections of the public loading up the gov't with worthless incorrect information. A bit of a data-tea-party.

One has to remember that the US gov't used the 1920 and 1930 census info to deport 110,000 Americans of Japanese decent to concentration camps. I bet they wish they had lied on their census! the gbuiern'mint has a record of violationg its own laws when it wants to.


I could get stuck on a reservation with Rani, out fighting over the last rotten pumpkin in the field.

[Rani]

Actually still not a big difference it's all parts of the same machine.

And Again, it's a dumb ass move to prevent any part of the census. It's a needed thing and it's been around for quite sometime.

So b/c they're checking addresses and marking them on Census issued gps units then they deserve to be attacked by dogs? You my friend are extremely ignorant in this aspect. And if you keep the same outlook to other parts of your life, then I feel bad for you and whoever is forced to be around you.

No, they deserve to be attacked by working guard dogs when they trespass un anounced, and uninvited, and seem too stupid to understand a 3x4 foot bright yellow sign with black letters that says:
"working dogs on patrol"
"enter at own risk"

Ya, the big sign on the gate he climbed over.
right next to the intercom he never used.

That is what a guard dog does, deters and detains trespassers... or I would have a poodle.

There is a reason for a 1/3 mile driveway, 8' game fences, and a giant steel gate with 135 acres around me... I don't want people around me that I don't choose to be there. My neighbor said the guy insisted on checking his outbuildings to "determine if they were habitable". Then he ran they guy off by saying he was headed for his shotgun. (my neighbor isn't very social, and he is the county attorney) The dogs need to take a chomp out of that census fool just to prove darwin was correct.

As far as importance, I debate that completely.
this township has 165 persons living in it, it had 164 in the 1990 census, and 163 in the 2000. I don't think we make much difference in the number of reps anyhow... and how many flush toilets there are here is really not going to make any impact on the state of the nation.

Show me where Article 1 section 2 of the constitution says the gov't needs my phone number on the census? Why they have any need of my ethnic origin, where I lived 1 year ago, Military service status (especially since homeland security decided to classify all vets as a national security risk. Where is my right against self-incrimination?) How about your income? remember, this census is going to make the rounds through the gov't channels, it's not private. The IRS may want to see YOUR income, just to be sure that GPS location matches your income potential. Hey, wait for your property tax to go up based on your income comparisson to this address! but that isn't needed under art 1 sect 2. There are 8 questions about your income. Screw that! 18 questions about your employment.

They want to know if I have a phone at 3 pages past where they ask your phone number. What retard came up with that waste of ink?

Do I have trouble bathing and dressing? Just how is that pertinant to the number of congressmen?

Religious affiliation? WTF? where are those sep of church & satate liberal waccos when the gov't is demanding to know your religion. That is not something they need to decide where to build roads.

Besides, they are calling this "the American Community Survey" not a census. It's data mining, and an invasion of privacy.

Here was Ron Paul's summary. http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst071204.htm Once again I find myself agreeing with him.

The choices are:
1) lie and fill out everything missleading (what most of the neighbors I have talked to say they plan to do)

or 2) ignore the bastards. If they mail it I will bullshit my way through it, or throw it in the trash can. Since I have no mailbox, and use a box at the UPS store, I think they can kiss my arse... on the other hand, since ACORN is the prime contractor, and they have a history of hiring people convicted of ID fraud... if they show up, they can definitely kiss my arse. At my age, I have never filled one out yet, no point in breaking a winning stratagy!

I do like the idea of large sections of the public loading up the gov't with worthless incorrect information. A bit of a data-tea-party.

One has to remember that the US gov't used the 1920 and 1930 census info to deport 110,000 Americans of Japanese decent to concentration camps. I bet they wish they had lied on their census! the gbuiern'mint has a record of violationg its own laws when it wants to.


I could get stuck on a reservation with Rani, out fighting over the last rotten pumpkin in the field.

Pigs are flying somewhere in the world because I am 100% in agreement on everything the man said.

'Rani

[liquidglass]

Actually still not a big difference it's all parts of the same machine.

And Again, it's a dumb ass move to prevent any part of the census. It's a needed thing and it's been around for quite sometime.

So b/c they're checking addresses and marking them on Census issued gps units then they deserve to be attacked by dogs? You my friend are extremely ignorant in this aspect. And if you keep the same outlook to other parts of your life, then I feel bad for you and whoever is forced to be around you.

No, they deserve to be attacked by working guard dogs when they trespass un anounced, and uninvited, and seem too stupid to understand a 3x4 foot bright yellow sign with black letters that says:
"working dogs on patrol"
"enter at own risk"

Ya, the big sign on the gate he climbed over.
right next to the intercom he never used.

That is what a guard dog does, deters and detains trespassers... or I would have a poodle.

There is a reason for a 1/3 mile driveway, 8' game fences, and a giant steel gate with 135 acres around me... I don't want people around me that I don't choose to be there. My neighbor said the guy insisted on checking his outbuildings to "determine if they were habitable". Then he ran they guy off by saying he was headed for his shotgun. (my neighbor isn't very social, and he is the county attorney) The dogs need to take a chomp out of that census fool just to prove darwin was correct.

As far as importance, I debate that completely.
this township has 165 persons living in it, it had 164 in the 1990 census, and 163 in the 2000. I don't think we make much difference in the number of reps anyhow... and how many flush toilets there are here is really not going to make any impact on the state of the nation.

Show me where Article 1 section 2 of the constitution says the gov't needs my phone number on the census? Why they have any need of my ethnic origin, where I lived 1 year ago, Military service status (especially since homeland security decided to classify all vets as a national security risk. Where is my right against self-incrimination?) How about your income? remember, this census is going to make the rounds through the gov't channels, it's not private. The IRS may want to see YOUR income, just to be sure that GPS location matches your income potential. Hey, wait for your property tax to go up based on your income comparisson to this address! but that isn't needed under art 1 sect 2. There are 8 questions about your income. Screw that! 18 questions about your employment.

They want to know if I have a phone at 3 pages past where they ask your phone number. What retard came up with that waste of ink?

Do I have trouble bathing and dressing? Just how is that pertinant to the number of congressmen?

Religious affiliation? WTF? where are those sep of church & satate liberal waccos when the gov't is demanding to know your religion. That is not something they need to decide where to build roads.

Besides, they are calling this "the American Community Survey" not a census. It's data mining, and an invasion of privacy.

Here was Ron Paul's summary. http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst071204.htm Once again I find myself agreeing with him.

The choices are:
1) lie and fill out everything missleading (what most of the neighbors I have talked to say they plan to do)

or 2) ignore the bastards. If they mail it I will bullshit my way through it, or throw it in the trash can. Since I have no mailbox, and use a box at the UPS store, I think they can kiss my arse... on the other hand, since ACORN is the prime contractor, and they have a history of hiring people convicted of ID fraud... if they show up, they can definitely kiss my arse. At my age, I have never filled one out yet, no point in breaking a winning stratagy!

I do like the idea of large sections of the public loading up the gov't with worthless incorrect information. A bit of a data-tea-party.

One has to remember that the US gov't used the 1920 and 1930 census info to deport 110,000 Americans of Japanese decent to concentration camps. I bet they wish they had lied on their census! the gbuiern'mint has a record of violationg its own laws when it wants to.


I could get stuck on a reservation with Rani, out fighting over the last rotten pumpkin in the field.

Most of which you didn't state in your original post. I agree the census worker should have used the intercom, which was idiotic on his part not to. So I understand your point a little better, especially if he climbed the fence. However, no matter how stupid the person was, doesn't mean you should wish harm to befall them, which is how your original post seemed to reek of.


Well considering the threat of japan I understand them keeping a watchful eye at the time, however, because of the lack of man power and technology it was easier for them to put them in concentrated areas, nothing like what the word concentration camp brings to mind. (or did they have furnaces they would throw the ones that were useless into? did I miss that in history class?)

-as a side point: the camps were over zealous, but there are lots of things similar to that on a smaller level that protect the freedoms and rights you're claiming are being violated. Just trust me on that one.

They had good reason to suspect too, because pearl harbor was organized from within the US by 'tourists' and 'citizens' or did you forget that? Not to say they went about it in the right way, but as it always happens when large groups of people panic and want to prevent any more loss of life they don't always act in the most prudent way.
You can equate that with a person walking down the street and seeing someone of a different race they believe to be dangerous and getting away from them. Everyone's done it at least once, the govt. in that situation just took it to an extreme and unnecessary degree.

As I said I have no problem with people not filling out the census. It's all about how you go about it. I think people should, but I'm not here to force that idea on anyone. Simply again, the way you go about it.

You're right it is a collection of data, but you might want to look up the fifth amendment again if you think that is self incrimination. As far as the IRS, they should be seeing your income anyway when you file your taxes, so as long as everything is on the up and up you shouldn't have anything to worry about should you?

Throughout your post you continually used the words demanding and forcing, if you haven't filled one out yet, I don't think those terms would rightfully apply, but whatever makes your point seem more valid right? (pushy, yes, demanding/forcing no)

Also of course we all know it's done by ACORN, but i'm curious about the ID thefts you're talking about, I'd like to see something to back that up, mostly just out of interest.

Yeah it'd be great for everyone to give incorrect information, then they can bitch when the legislative lines aren't drawn the way they want them, when the person they want to get elected doesn't as a result. And when the funding doesn't go to the right places. Sure, there are some screwed up things going on in govt. as with any large organization, but in some situations the good outweighs the bad.

You can pretend all you want that the govt. doesn't already have the (important) information on you just because you don't fill out the census. But it's just not the case. You're posting on hookah forum, which means you probably have internet access at home. Which usually means you have a contract with a company, that knows you SSN, phone number, address, and with that they could potentially find out your race, income, criminal record, etc.

Wanna live off the grid? Then take a page from Walden's Pond and live off the grid, then you honestly won't have any impact on anything but yourself.

Again I'll reiterate my original point, just because you don't like the census doesn't mean you have to wish for harm to come to the people that do it, even if they don't do things they should like use the intercom.



There are three ways I look at situations like this:

1) if people don't like the way things are orchestrated in the country, just leave, plenty of others to chose from.

2) People love to bitch and moan when it comes down to something they just don't like, not like it's been around since before the US was even formed.

3) No one ever realizes the larger picture. Everyone thinks about their current situation and that's it. If everyone thought that way, nothing would ever get done. Shockingly things are not always about 'you' it's about the community as a whole (read USA)

- if someone disagrees with any of the points, then refer to point 1

[Rani]

Most of which you didn't state in your original post. I agree the census worker should have used the intercom, which was idiotic on his part not to. So I understand your point a little better, especially if he climbed the fence. However, no matter how stupid the person was, doesn't mean you should wish harm to befall them, which is how your original post seemed to reek of.


Well considering the threat of japan I understand them keeping a watchful eye at the time, however, because of the lack of man power and technology it was easier for them to put them in concentrated areas, nothing like what the word concentration camp brings to mind. (or did they have furnaces they would throw the ones that were useless into? did I miss that in history class?) You believe everything you were taught in history class? I grew up in Gardena, California. Sister city - Kyoto, Japan. Japanese-American population ran 40%. I went to school with kids who's family members had been in the camps. They were rounded up, deprived of their homes and businesses and most never recovered their assets and had to begin building their lives all over again when they were released.

-as a side point: the camps were over zealous, but there are lots of things similar to that on a smaller level that protect the freedoms and rights you're claiming are being violated. Just trust me on that one. So it's okay to apply prejudice under under the guise of protect the freedoms of those outside the victim group? Now that would depend on which side of the razor wire fence you happen to be on at the time wouldn't it?

They had good reason to suspect too, because pearl harbor was organized from within the US by 'tourists' and 'citizens' or did you forget that? Where on earth did you hear that load of bunk????? There has never been any suspicion that Pearl Harbor was organized from within the US. I lost two great uncles in Pearl Harbor. I've visited the monument and traveled to Japan more than once. It's well within recon flight even in WWII aircraft. It was common knowledge throughout the world our fleet was there because we were always advertising it on television. Not to say they went about it in the right way, but as it always happens when large groups of people panic and want to prevent any more loss of life they don't always act in the most prudent way.
You can equate that with a person walking down the street and seeing someone of a different race they believe to be dangerous and getting away from them. Everyone's done it at least once, the govt. in that situation just took it to an extreme and unnecessary degree. And that makes it right? Once again I'd say that depends on your side of the razor wire. You didn't live through it, Scotsman and I disagree about a lot of things but we are both of an age where we have personal knowledge of government misuse of it's power after WWII, Vietnam, etc. based on it's gathered data.

As I said I have no problem with people not filling out the census. It's all about how you go about it. I think people should, but I'm not here to force that idea on anyone. Simply again, the way you go about it.

You're right it is a collection of data, but you might want to look up the fifth amendment again if you think that is self incrimination. As far as the IRS, they should be seeing your income anyway when you file your taxes, so as long as everything is on the up and up you shouldn't have anything to worry about should you?

Throughout your post you continually used the words demanding and forcing, if you haven't filled one out yet, I don't think those terms would rightfully apply, but whatever makes your point seem more valid right? (pushy, yes, demanding/forcing no) Considering I was threatened with a felony due to my reticence in giving them their information they wanted, yeah, I'd say forcing is an appropriate world.

Also of course we all know it's done by ACORN, but i'm curious about the ID thefts you're talking about, I'd like to see something to back that up, mostly just out of interest.

Yeah it'd be great for everyone to give incorrect information, then they can bitch when the legislative lines aren't drawn the way they want them, when the person they want to get elected doesn't as a result. And when the funding doesn't go to the right places. Sure, there are some screwed up things going on in govt. as with any large organization, but in some situations the good outweighs the bad.

You can pretend all you want that the govt. doesn't already have the (important) information on you just because you don't fill out the census. But it's just not the case. You're posting on hookah forum, which means you probably have internet access at home. Which usually means you have a contract with a company, that knows you SSN, phone number, address, and with that they could potentially find out your race, income, criminal record, etc.

Wanna live off the grid? Then take a page from Walden's Pond and live off the grid, then you honestly won't have any impact on anything but yourself.

Again I'll reiterate my original point, just because you don't like the census doesn't mean you have to wish for harm to come to the people that do it, even if they don't do things they should like use the intercom.



There are three ways I look at situations like this:

1) if people don't like the way things are orchestrated in the country, just leave, plenty of others to chose from. Great idea. Everybody give up their homes, businesses and get off my ancestral land. And take the rest of the Anglo invaders with you. (Sarcasm because not even to me is that a valid argument.)

2) People love to bitch and moan when it comes down to something they just don't like, not like it's been around since before the US was even formed.

3) No one ever realizes the larger picture. Everyone thinks about their current situation and that's it. If everyone thought that way, nothing would ever get done. Shockingly things are not always about 'you' it's about the community as a whole (read USA)

- if someone disagrees with any of the points, then refer to point 1 After you've personally spent years watching the government you endorse here abusiing it's power, then I suspect you'll change your mind. We developd these ideas based on personal experience and observations. We didn't just get up one morning and decide out of the thin blue air that the government sucks. We came to this conclusion honestly through years of personal observation. Eventually I suspect, so will you. You're 23 years old. That's not a slap, just a statement of fact and your ideals will change over the coming years.

There..... Fixed.

'Rani

[TheScotsman]

Ya, my original post was poor.

I had just dealt with the bugger, and was a bit confounded by what I had witnessed. Somehow in my little happy world I missed the memo about these retards showing up.

As for acorn, the liberal-bias-agenda-driven media has done a poor job of covering their shenanigans.

how would an indictment affidavit from the State of Nevada do?
http://media.lasvegassun.com/media/pdfs/bl...N_Affidavit.pdf Start reading about their all-star staff on about pg 13.

Or a FBI report from Missouri
http://kansascity.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pres...theft010507.htm

http://rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html

Ya, that is the organization I want to give my personal info to. I think one has a valid reason for denying any access to estate, property, and information solely based on the fact the organization making the collection is riddled with criminal activities, and staffed by an undisclosed number of convicted felons.

[tinyj316]

The Census... Its going to be used to get me!!! Must....wear....hat....


Seriously though... Do you honestly think that the government already doesn't have access to this information? You're bringing up examples from 50+ years ago to justify your distaste for something that hasn't happened since...

There are two forms to the census... a short form (which 95% of the population fills out) that consists of 10-15 questions, and a long form that is much longer... If you really have such distaste for answering the damn census, then falsify it... they're not going to know... and it keeps you out of jail...

Oh, and about being forced... if you look at the following law, passed by congress, you can see where it is REQUIRED to fill out the census... if you don't like it, either 1) revolt 2) bitch to your representation 3) GTFO

13 USC Sec. 221
TITLE 13 - CENSUS

CHAPTER 7 - OFFENSES AND PENALTIES

SUBCHAPTER II - OTHER PERSONS

Sec. 221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.

( Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.

Perhaps I'm too trusting in our government, perhaps I just don't give a damn. The government has been abusing its power for decades... The only way to stop that abuse is to stage a revolution, which 99.999% of Americans are afraid of doing.

EDIT: 80+ to 50+... math is hard today...

[Vladimir]

Fill out the census, your posterity will thank you some day. I am eagerly await the next release of census records as I try and track the history of my great grandfather in particular.

[liquidglass]

Most of which you didn't state in your original post. I agree the census worker should have used the intercom, which was idiotic on his part not to. So I understand your point a little better, especially if he climbed the fence. However, no matter how stupid the person was, doesn't mean you should wish harm to befall them, which is how your original post seemed to reek of.


Well considering the threat of japan I understand them keeping a watchful eye at the time, however, because of the lack of man power and technology it was easier for them to put them in concentrated areas, nothing like what the word concentration camp brings to mind. (or did they have furnaces they would throw the ones that were useless into? did I miss that in history class?) You believe everything you were taught in history class? I grew up in Gardena, California. Sister city - Kyoto, Japan. Japanese-American population ran 40%. I went to school with kids who's family members had been in the camps. They were rounded up, deprived of their homes and businesses and most never recovered their assets and had to begin building their lives all over again when they were released.

- Really because I was never taught any of that in history class, I learned 98% of it when I was over in Japan. I doubt your sister city argument works as much as speaking to Japanese ex military or survivors of certain bombs in retaliation.

-as a side point: the camps were over zealous, but there are lots of things similar to that on a smaller level that protect the freedoms and rights you're claiming are being violated. Just trust me on that one. So it's okay to apply prejudice under under the guise of protect the freedoms of those outside the victim group? Now that would depend on which side of the razor wire fence you happen to be on at the time wouldn't it?

- Everyone is on both sides of the razor wire, it just depends on what country you're in at the time. And I said trust me on that one, it's not something I can or will go further into. You either believe it or you don't. But there's a difference in knowing the truth and thinking you know it.

They had good reason to suspect too, because pearl harbor was organized from within the US by 'tourists' and 'citizens' or did you forget that? Where on earth did you hear that load of bunk????? There has never been any suspicion that Pearl Harbor was organized from within the US. I lost two great uncles in Pearl Harbor. I've visited the monument and traveled to Japan more than once. It's well within recon flight even in WWII aircraft. It was common knowledge throughout the world our fleet was there because we were always advertising it on television. Not to say they went about it in the right way, but as it always happens when large groups of people panic and want to prevent any more loss of life they don't always act in the most prudent way.
You can equate that with a person walking down the street and seeing someone of a different race they believe to be dangerous and getting away from them. Everyone's done it at least once, the govt. in that situation just took it to an extreme and unnecessary degree. And that makes it right? Once again I'd say that depends on your side of the razor wire. You didn't live through it, Scotsman and I disagree about a lot of things but we are both of an age where we have personal knowledge of government misuse of it's power after WWII, Vietnam, etc. based on it's gathered data.


- Again I refer you to my first hand experience with people directly involved in the Japanese/American issues. And where are you getting your facts from? It was not well within a recon flight of any plane during WWII. I would say you should dig deeper into the facts to find out exactly how Pearl Harbor was carried out. Or do you believe everything they taught you in history class?

- Rani, if you're going to debate at least do it well. I said that it was unnecessary and it wasn't right, if you would actually read rather than rant. I've bolded the sections of what I said so maybe you'll read it this time. You're too caught up on getting emtional about the past and blaming people/org. rather than trying to figure out why it happend. As hindsight is 20/20.

- You didn't live through WWII either or the after effects. Vietnam yes, WWII, no. So stop making ridiculous claims to attempt to approve a point. It's well known how power can be and has been mis used, no matter what age you are. But again either do something about it, or leave, your choice.

As I said I have no problem with people not filling out the census. It's all about how you go about it. I think people should, but I'm not here to force that idea on anyone. Simply again, the way you go about it.

You're right it is a collection of data, but you might want to look up the fifth amendment again if you think that is self incrimination. As far as the IRS, they should be seeing your income anyway when you file your taxes, so as long as everything is on the up and up you shouldn't have anything to worry about should you?

Throughout your post you continually used the words demanding and forcing, if you haven't filled one out yet, I don't think those terms would rightfully apply, but whatever makes your point seem more valid right? (pushy, yes, demanding/forcing no) Considering I was threatened with a felony due to my reticence in giving them their information they wanted, yeah, I'd say forcing is an appropriate world.

I agree that was demanding, forcing? No because you didn't actually get thrown in prison. It's sort of like it being a crime to destroy US currency. No one enforces it anymore. But I bet if they did enforce the laws that lay stagnat you'd say it was an abuse of power.

Also of course we all know it's done by ACORN, but i'm curious about the ID thefts you're talking about, I'd like to see something to back that up, mostly just out of interest.

Yeah it'd be great for everyone to give incorrect information, then they can bitch when the legislative lines aren't drawn the way they want them, when the person they want to get elected doesn't as a result. And when the funding doesn't go to the right places. Sure, there are some screwed up things going on in govt. as with any large organization, but in some situations the good outweighs the bad.

You can pretend all you want that the govt. doesn't already have the (important) information on you just because you don't fill out the census. But it's just not the case. You're posting on hookah forum, which means you probably have internet access at home. Which usually means you have a contract with a company, that knows you SSN, phone number, address, and with that they could potentially find out your race, income, criminal record, etc.

Wanna live off the grid? Then take a page from Walden's Pond and live off the grid, then you honestly won't have any impact on anything but yourself.

Again I'll reiterate my original point, just because you don't like the census doesn't mean you have to wish for harm to come to the people that do it, even if they don't do things they should like use the intercom.



There are three ways I look at situations like this:

1) if people don't like the way things are orchestrated in the country, just leave, plenty of others to chose from. Great idea. Everybody give up their homes, businesses and get off my ancestral land. And take the rest of the Anglo invaders with you. (Sarcasm because not even to me is that a valid argument.)

- It's not an arguement, it's a view, at least get it right if you're going to insult it. I thought about it after the time was up last night about amending my 1st VIEW (bolded for emphasis) Where it should say, either do something about it, or leave. You're always going to find something to complain about in every single country and people love to complain but they'd never do anything about it one way or the other.

2) People love to bitch and moan when it comes down to something they just don't like, not like it's been around since before the US was even formed.

3) No one ever realizes the larger picture. Everyone thinks about their current situation and that's it. If everyone thought that way, nothing would ever get done. Shockingly things are not always about 'you' it's about the community as a whole (read USA)

- if someone disagrees with any of the points, then refer to point 1 After you've personally spent years watching the government you endorse here abusiing it's power, then I suspect you'll change your mind. We developd these ideas based on personal experience and observations. We didn't just get up one morning and decide out of the thin blue air that the government sucks. We came to this conclusion honestly through years of personal observation. Eventually I suspect, so will you. You're 23 years old. That's not a slap, just a statement of fact and your ideals will change over the coming years.

- I endorse a country not a govt. you know why? Govts change, they only do what the people within them decide to take action on.

Ideas are made up of the company you keep as well as everything else. From your history I would suspect you had the idea the govt. sucked since you were a child. It's kind of like religion, it's not a personal choice if you've grown up that way. You can suspect all you want. Based on my knowledge, which I can safely say exceeds yours in some areas (not an insult though, just exposure to certain things) I put my money on the country I'm living in, if you don't feel the same then again, refer to point/view 1.

I think that looks about right, enjoy.

[liquidglass]

Ya, my original post was poor.

I had just dealt with the bugger, and was a bit confounded by what I had witnessed. Somehow in my little happy world I missed the memo about these retards showing up.

As for acorn, the liberal-bias-agenda-driven media has done a poor job of covering their shenanigans.

how would an indictment affidavit from the State of Nevada do?
http://media.lasvegassun.com/media/pdfs/bl...N_Affidavit.pdf Start reading about their all-star staff on about pg 13.

Or a FBI report from Missouri
http://kansascity.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pres...theft010507.htm

http://rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html

Ya, that is the organization I want to give my personal info to. I think one has a valid reason for denying any access to estate, property, and information solely based on the fact the organization making the collection is riddled with criminal activities, and staffed by an undisclosed number of convicted felons.

I appreciate you understanding how I didn't get the full idea of what was going on in your first post, and thank you for explaining it.

I'll read up on the links when I get some more time.

The Census... Its going to be used to get me!!! Must....wear....hat....


Seriously though... Do you honestly think that the government already doesn't have access to this information? You're bringing up examples from 50+ years ago to justify your distaste for something that hasn't happened since...

There are two forms to the census... a short form (which 95% of the population fills out) that consists of 10-15 questions, and a long form that is much longer... If you really have such distaste for answering the damn census, then falsify it... they're not going to know... and it keeps you out of jail...

Oh, and about being forced... if you look at the following law, passed by congress, you can see where it is REQUIRED to fill out the census... if you don't like it, either 1) revolt 2) bitch to your representation 3) GTFO

13 USC Sec. 221
TITLE 13 - CENSUS

CHAPTER 7 - OFFENSES AND PENALTIES

SUBCHAPTER II - OTHER PERSONS

Sec. 221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.

( Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.

Perhaps I'm too trusting in our government, perhaps I just don't give a damn. The government has been abusing its power for decades... The only way to stop that abuse is to stage a revolution, which 99.999% of Americans are afraid of doing.

EDIT: 80+ to 50+... math is hard today...

Good points, thanks for looking that up

Fill out the census, your posterity will thank you some day. I am eagerly await the next release of census records as I try and track the history of my great grandfather in particular.

Hell yes, main reason my mother loves the census.

[liquidglass]

add on to the end of my post where I had to clean up the mess someone made of it

*- I endorse a country...an Idea if you will, not a govt. you know why? Govts change, they only do what the people within them decide to take action on. Things never change when people sit back and complain. Only when people believe in ideals enough to stand up and take action does anything ever get done. I suspect you'll get more bitter about it, as the years come because you made up and closed off your mind a long time ago.

[Vladimir]

Fill out the census, your posterity will thank you some day. I am eagerly await the next release of census records as I try and track the history of my great grandfather in particular.

Hell yes, main reason my mother loves the census.

I really wish they wouldn't wait so long to release the data. I understand the whole privacy thing but I am try to track down living relatives in Eastern Europe... that is hard when the data we have for my great grandpa is 70 years old . I need to start diving into the English records though, he had already changed his name when he got to the US so we can't even figure out what his real name was . (Went from Ukraine/Russia to England to US we believe).

[Rani]

Most of which you didn't state in your original post. I agree the census worker should have used the intercom, which was idiotic on his part not to. So I understand your point a little better, especially if he climbed the fence. However, no matter how stupid the person was, doesn't mean you should wish harm to befall them, which is how your original post seemed to reek of.


Well considering the threat of japan I understand them keeping a watchful eye at the time, however, because of the lack of man power and technology it was easier for them to put them in concentrated areas, nothing like what the word concentration camp brings to mind. (or did they have furnaces they would throw the ones that were useless into? did I miss that in history class?) You believe everything you were taught in history class? I grew up in Gardena, California. Sister city - Kyoto, Japan. Japanese-American population ran 40%. I went to school with kids who's family members had been in the camps. They were rounded up, deprived of their homes and businesses and most never recovered their assets and had to begin building their lives all over again when they were released.

- Really because I was never taught any of that in history class, I learned 98% of it when I was over in Japan. I doubt your sister city argument works as much as speaking to Japanese ex military or survivors of certain bombs in retaliation.

-as a side point: the camps were over zealous, but there are lots of things similar to that on a smaller level that protect the freedoms and rights you're claiming are being violated. Just trust me on that one. So it's okay to apply prejudice under under the guise of protect the freedoms of those outside the victim group? Now that would depend on which side of the razor wire fence you happen to be on at the time wouldn't it?

- Everyone is on both sides of the razor wire, it just depends on what country you're in at the time. And I said trust me on that one, it's not something I can or will go further into. You either believe it or you don't. But there's a difference in knowing the truth and thinking you know it.

They had good reason to suspect too, because pearl harbor was organized from within the US by 'tourists' and 'citizens' or did you forget that? Where on earth did you hear that load of bunk????? There has never been any suspicion that Pearl Harbor was organized from within the US. I lost two great uncles in Pearl Harbor. I've visited the monument and traveled to Japan more than once. It's well within recon flight even in WWII aircraft. It was common knowledge throughout the world our fleet was there because we were always advertising it on television. Not to say they went about it in the right way, but as it always happens when large groups of people panic and want to prevent any more loss of life they don't always act in the most prudent way.
You can equate that with a person walking down the street and seeing someone of a different race they believe to be dangerous and getting away from them. Everyone's done it at least once, the govt. in that situation just took it to an extreme and unnecessary degree. And that makes it right? Once again I'd say that depends on your side of the razor wire. You didn't live through it, Scotsman and I disagree about a lot of things but we are both of an age where we have personal knowledge of government misuse of it's power after WWII, Vietnam, etc. based on it's gathered data.


- Again I refer you to my first hand experience with people directly involved in the Japanese/American issues. And where are you getting your facts from? It was not well within a recon flight of any plane during WWII. I would say you should dig deeper into the facts to find out exactly how Pearl Harbor was carried out. Or do you believe everything they taught you in history class?

- Rani, if you're going to debate at least do it well. I said that it was unnecessary and it wasn't right, if you would actually read rather than rant. I've bolded the sections of what I said so maybe you'll read it this time. You're too caught up on getting emtional about the past and blaming people/org. rather than trying to figure out why it happend. As hindsight is 20/20.

- You didn't live through WWII either or the after effects. Vietnam yes, WWII, no. So stop making ridiculous claims to attempt to approve a point. It's well known how power can be and has been mis used, no matter what age you are. But again either do something about it, or leave, your choice.

As I said I have no problem with people not filling out the census. It's all about how you go about it. I think people should, but I'm not here to force that idea on anyone. Simply again, the way you go about it.

You're right it is a collection of data, but you might want to look up the fifth amendment again if you think that is self incrimination. As far as the IRS, they should be seeing your income anyway when you file your taxes, so as long as everything is on the up and up you shouldn't have anything to worry about should you?

Throughout your post you continually used the words demanding and forcing, if you haven't filled one out yet, I don't think those terms would rightfully apply, but whatever makes your point seem more valid right? (pushy, yes, demanding/forcing no) Considering I was threatened with a felony due to my reticence in giving them their information they wanted, yeah, I'd say forcing is an appropriate world.

I agree that was demanding, forcing? No because you didn't actually get thrown in prison. It's sort of like it being a crime to destroy US currency. No one enforces it anymore. But I bet if they did enforce the laws that lay stagnat you'd say it was an abuse of power.

Also of course we all know it's done by ACORN, but i'm curious about the ID thefts you're talking about, I'd like to see something to back that up, mostly just out of interest.

Yeah it'd be great for everyone to give incorrect information, then they can bitch when the legislative lines aren't drawn the way they want them, when the person they want to get elected doesn't as a result. And when the funding doesn't go to the right places. Sure, there are some screwed up things going on in govt. as with any large organization, but in some situations the good outweighs the bad.

You can pretend all you want that the govt. doesn't already have the (important) information on you just because you don't fill out the census. But it's just not the case. You're posting on hookah forum, which means you probably have internet access at home. Which usually means you have a contract with a company, that knows you SSN, phone number, address, and with that they could potentially find out your race, income, criminal record, etc.

Wanna live off the grid? Then take a page from Walden's Pond and live off the grid, then you honestly won't have any impact on anything but yourself.

Again I'll reiterate my original point, just because you don't like the census doesn't mean you have to wish for harm to come to the people that do it, even if they don't do things they should like use the intercom.



There are three ways I look at situations like this:

1) if people don't like the way things are orchestrated in the country, just leave, plenty of others to chose from. Great idea. Everybody give up their homes, businesses and get off my ancestral land. And take the rest of the Anglo invaders with you. (Sarcasm because not even to me is that a valid argument.)

- It's not an arguement, it's a view, at least get it right if you're going to insult it. I thought about it after the time was up last night about amending my 1st VIEW (bolded for emphasis) Where it should say, either do something about it, or leave. You're always going to find something to complain about in every single country and people love to complain but they'd never do anything about it one way or the other.

2) People love to bitch and moan when it comes down to something they just don't like, not like it's been around since before the US was even formed.

3) No one ever realizes the larger picture. Everyone thinks about their current situation and that's it. If everyone thought that way, nothing would ever get done. Shockingly things are not always about 'you' it's about the community as a whole (read USA)

- if someone disagrees with any of the points, then refer to point 1 After you've personally spent years watching the government you endorse here abusiing it's power, then I suspect you'll change your mind. We developd these ideas based on personal experience and observations. We didn't just get up one morning and decide out of the thin blue air that the government sucks. We came to this conclusion honestly through years of personal observation. Eventually I suspect, so will you. You're 23 years old. That's not a slap, just a statement of fact and your ideals will change over the coming years.

- I endorse a country not a govt. you know why? Govts change, they only do what the people within them decide to take action on.

Ideas are made up of the company you keep as well as everything else. From your history I would suspect you had the idea the govt. sucked since you were a child. It's kind of like religion, it's not a personal choice if you've grown up that way. You can suspect all you want. Based on my knowledge, which I can safely say exceeds yours in some areas (not an insult though, just exposure to certain things) I put my money on the country I'm living in, if you don't feel the same then again, refer to point/view 1.

I think that looks about right, enjoy.

You're right in that it was a rant. But a rant based on facts as I learned them through my years of personal experience. But I do apologize for the "ranting" aspect. However, I'm going to say only this.... You are 23 years old. Your ideas, your opinions, everything about your belief system will be modified and change as you grow older. Mark this day down on your calender and refer back to it 23 years from now and you'll be surprised. I'm not in any way attacking you, but once I was 23 years old and also believed everything I heard and read. I was wrong and you'll eventually discover so are you. Such is life. And point of fact, I do try to do something about it. I'm a member of several non-violent activist organizations who believe our nation should change. But inertia is the most difficult thing in the world to counter. That doesn't mean we should stop trying. See you in 20 years or so.

'Rani

[TheScotsman]

You're right in that it was a rant. But a rant based on facts as I learned them through my years of personal experience. But I do apologize for the "ranting" aspect. However, I'm going to say only this.... You are 23 years old. Your ideas, your opinions, everything about your belief system will be modified and change as you grow older. Mark this day down on your calender and refer back to it 23 years from now and you'll be surprised. I'm not in any way attacking you, but once I was 23 years old and also believed everything I heard and read. I was wrong and you'll eventually discover so are you. Such is life. And point of fact, I do try to do something about it. I'm a member of several non-violent activist organizations who believe our nation should change. But inertia is the most difficult thing in the world to counter. That doesn't mean we should stop trying. See you in 20 years or so.

'Rani

That may be the single most accurate statement I have read in a very long time.


Here I was thinking Rani was a 20-something... I don't know where I got that idea. Must have been that non-violent approach. I am more of a "hands-on-cure-it-now" person. (I know, that is surprising, isn't it?)

[liquidglass]

Most of which you didn't state in your original post. I agree the census worker should have used the intercom, which was idiotic on his part not to. So I understand your point a little better, especially if he climbed the fence. However, no matter how stupid the person was, doesn't mean you should wish harm to befall them, which is how your original post seemed to reek of.


Well considering the threat of japan I understand them keeping a watchful eye at the time, however, because of the lack of man power and technology it was easier for them to put them in concentrated areas, nothing like what the word concentration camp brings to mind. (or did they have furnaces they would throw the ones that were useless into? did I miss that in history class?) You believe everything you were taught in history class? I grew up in Gardena, California. Sister city - Kyoto, Japan. Japanese-American population ran 40%. I went to school with kids who's family members had been in the camps. They were rounded up, deprived of their homes and businesses and most never recovered their assets and had to begin building their lives all over again when they were released.

- Really because I was never taught any of that in history class, I learned 98% of it when I was over in Japan. I doubt your sister city argument works as much as speaking to Japanese ex military or survivors of certain bombs in retaliation.

-as a side point: the camps were over zealous, but there are lots of things similar to that on a smaller level that protect the freedoms and rights you're claiming are being violated. Just trust me on that one. So it's okay to apply prejudice under under the guise of protect the freedoms of those outside the victim group? Now that would depend on which side of the razor wire fence you happen to be on at the time wouldn't it?

- Everyone is on both sides of the razor wire, it just depends on what country you're in at the time. And I said trust me on that one, it's not something I can or will go further into. You either believe it or you don't. But there's a difference in knowing the truth and thinking you know it.

They had good reason to suspect too, because pearl harbor was organized from within the US by 'tourists' and 'citizens' or did you forget that? Where on earth did you hear that load of bunk????? There has never been any suspicion that Pearl Harbor was organized from within the US. I lost two great uncles in Pearl Harbor. I've visited the monument and traveled to Japan more than once. It's well within recon flight even in WWII aircraft. It was common knowledge throughout the world our fleet was there because we were always advertising it on television. Not to say they went about it in the right way, but as it always happens when large groups of people panic and want to prevent any more loss of life they don't always act in the most prudent way.
You can equate that with a person walking down the street and seeing someone of a different race they believe to be dangerous and getting away from them. Everyone's done it at least once, the govt. in that situation just took it to an extreme and unnecessary degree. And that makes it right? Once again I'd say that depends on your side of the razor wire. You didn't live through it, Scotsman and I disagree about a lot of things but we are both of an age where we have personal knowledge of government misuse of it's power after WWII, Vietnam, etc. based on it's gathered data.


- Again I refer you to my first hand experience with people directly involved in the Japanese/American issues. And where are you getting your facts from? It was not well within a recon flight of any plane during WWII. I would say you should dig deeper into the facts to find out exactly how Pearl Harbor was carried out. Or do you believe everything they taught you in history class?

- Rani, if you're going to debate at least do it well. I said that it was unnecessary and it wasn't right, if you would actually read rather than rant. I've bolded the sections of what I said so maybe you'll read it this time. You're too caught up on getting emtional about the past and blaming people/org. rather than trying to figure out why it happend. As hindsight is 20/20.

- You didn't live through WWII either or the after effects. Vietnam yes, WWII, no. So stop making ridiculous claims to attempt to approve a point. It's well known how power can be and has been mis used, no matter what age you are. But again either do something about it, or leave, your choice.

As I said I have no problem with people not filling out the census. It's all about how you go about it. I think people should, but I'm not here to force that idea on anyone. Simply again, the way you go about it.

You're right it is a collection of data, but you might want to look up the fifth amendment again if you think that is self incrimination. As far as the IRS, they should be seeing your income anyway when you file your taxes, so as long as everything is on the up and up you shouldn't have anything to worry about should you?

Throughout your post you continually used the words demanding and forcing, if you haven't filled one out yet, I don't think those terms would rightfully apply, but whatever makes your point seem more valid right? (pushy, yes, demanding/forcing no) Considering I was threatened with a felony due to my reticence in giving them their information they wanted, yeah, I'd say forcing is an appropriate world.

I agree that was demanding, forcing? No because you didn't actually get thrown in prison. It's sort of like it being a crime to destroy US currency. No one enforces it anymore. But I bet if they did enforce the laws that lay stagnat you'd say it was an abuse of power.

Also of course we all know it's done by ACORN, but i'm curious about the ID thefts you're talking about, I'd like to see something to back that up, mostly just out of interest.

Yeah it'd be great for everyone to give incorrect information, then they can bitch when the legislative lines aren't drawn the way they want them, when the person they want to get elected doesn't as a result. And when the funding doesn't go to the right places. Sure, there are some screwed up things going on in govt. as with any large organization, but in some situations the good outweighs the bad.

You can pretend all you want that the govt. doesn't already have the (important) information on you just because you don't fill out the census. But it's just not the case. You're posting on hookah forum, which means you probably have internet access at home. Which usually means you have a contract with a company, that knows you SSN, phone number, address, and with that they could potentially find out your race, income, criminal record, etc.

Wanna live off the grid? Then take a page from Walden's Pond and live off the grid, then you honestly won't have any impact on anything but yourself.

Again I'll reiterate my original point, just because you don't like the census doesn't mean you have to wish for harm to come to the people that do it, even if they don't do things they should like use the intercom.



There are three ways I look at situations like this:

1) if people don't like the way things are orchestrated in the country, just leave, plenty of others to chose from. Great idea. Everybody give up their homes, businesses and get off my ancestral land. And take the rest of the Anglo invaders with you. (Sarcasm because not even to me is that a valid argument.)

- It's not an arguement, it's a view, at least get it right if you're going to insult it. I thought about it after the time was up last night about amending my 1st VIEW (bolded for emphasis) Where it should say, either do something about it, or leave. You're always going to find something to complain about in every single country and people love to complain but they'd never do anything about it one way or the other.

2) People love to bitch and moan when it comes down to something they just don't like, not like it's been around since before the US was even formed.

3) No one ever realizes the larger picture. Everyone thinks about their current situation and that's it. If everyone thought that way, nothing would ever get done. Shockingly things are not always about 'you' it's about the community as a whole (read USA)

- if someone disagrees with any of the points, then refer to point 1 After you've personally spent years watching the government you endorse here abusiing it's power, then I suspect you'll change your mind. We developd these ideas based on personal experience and observations. We didn't just get up one morning and decide out of the thin blue air that the government sucks. We came to this conclusion honestly through years of personal observation. Eventually I suspect, so will you. You're 23 years old. That's not a slap, just a statement of fact and your ideals will change over the coming years.

- I endorse a country not a govt. you know why? Govts change, they only do what the people within them decide to take action on.

Ideas are made up of the company you keep as well as everything else. From your history I would suspect you had the idea the govt. sucked since you were a child. It's kind of like religion, it's not a personal choice if you've grown up that way. You can suspect all you want. Based on my knowledge, which I can safely say exceeds yours in some areas (not an insult though, just exposure to certain things) I put my money on the country I'm living in, if you don't feel the same then again, refer to point/view 1.

I think that looks about right, enjoy.

You're right in that it was a rant. But a rant based on facts as I learned them through my years of personal experience. But I do apologize for the "ranting" aspect. However, I'm going to say only this.... You are 23 years old. Your ideas, your opinions, everything about your belief system will be modified and change as you grow older. Mark this day down on your calender and refer back to it 23 years from now and you'll be surprised. I'm not in any way attacking you, but once I was 23 years old and also believed everything I heard and read. I was wrong and you'll eventually discover so are you. Such is life. And point of fact, I do try to do something about it. I'm a member of several non-violent activist organizations who believe our nation should change. But inertia is the most difficult thing in the world to counter. That doesn't mean we should stop trying. See you in 20 years or so.

'Rani

In all honesty, I completely and utterly agree with you. I know they will. Ever since I was about 16 every year there is a larger and larger difference. And I always am in awe of it. However, just as you stand firm in your belief at 20 years my senior I stand firm in my current as well. And the beautiful thing about life is that statements like that apply to everyone at any age. But no one realizes that things change from year to year until they're old enough to accept they aren't invincible.

I've been wrong plenty and I like being right, but you have to be wrong plenty of times before you're right. The thing is, it's not just what I've heard and read, you'd be astounded at the things I've seen, even at my age. It's just one of those things I can't go into.

And I"m glad you're actually trying to make a difference, and for that more power to you, that's all I ever want with people. If something seems wrong, change it. Even if I disagree with someone a little or in every single aspect I respect the desire and the motivation to go against the flow. If everyone believed in the same thing we would never be where we are today, and we would stop learning.


In retrospect on my post I apologize if it came off as attacking. And don't worry I never felt like you were attacking, just passionate about your point of view like me.