Growing Some Tobacco

[Bulldog_916]

Next season I'm going to be planting some of my own tobacco. I want to make my own shisha and there's no better way to track the process than from seed to processed leaf. Buying pipe tobacco or RYO tobacco is not going to be an option for me because 1. it will likely always taste like cigarettes, 2. pipe tobacco is already pre-blended and I want my own characteristics in the tobacco blend and 3. buying tobacco leaf in bulk is expensive, almost prohibitively so for making small experimental batches. There are a few species of tobacco plants I'm already looking at and each has its own thing to add to the taste of the tobacco.

Samsun - This tobacco is light in flavor and is often used in light flavored cigarettes and oriental pipe blends. I want a tobacco that's light in flavor as a starter so that tobacco taste doesnt push through the flavors I'm using. Small leaves so that I can make proportional adjustments to the blend as I see fit. Sun-cured so that I dont have to end up using the kiln or fire-curing.

Yellow Burley- High yielding tobacco plant. 1 plant can produce 5+ pounds of tobacco leaf per harvest. Good for a volume mix. Air-cured so that I dont have to use the kiln.

Yellow Orinoco- Very sweet. May have to use a kiln for this one. I think it would complement the sweet flavors more and bring a sweet note to a flavor that's more spicy or sour.

What do you guys think? What characteristics would you want to see in a traditional shisha blend? I say traditional because some tobacco flavor would come through like in a pipe blend or cigar. I dont want it to be like newer shishas like AF or Tonic or Fusion that dont allow any of tobacco's more subtle flavors to come through. I want some of those subtleties to come through in my shisha. I want it to be fully flavored but have that last note of tobacco flavor at the end. I enjoy tobacco's flavor in cigars and pipes but I also enjoy the plethora of choices we have in shisha flavors. I'm shooting for the best of both worlds.

[freeOS]

Next season I'm going to be planting some of my own tobacco. I want to make my own shisha and there's no better way to track the process than from seed to processed leaf. Buying pipe tobacco or RYO tobacco is not going to be an option for me because 1. it will likely always taste like cigarettes, 2. pipe tobacco is already pre-blended and I want my own characteristics in the tobacco blend and 3. buying tobacco leaf in bulk is expensive, almost prohibitively so for making small experimental batches. There are a few species of tobacco plants I'm already looking at and each has its own thing to add to the taste of the tobacco.

Samsun - This tobacco is light in flavor and is often used in light flavored cigarettes and oriental pipe blends. I want a tobacco that's light in flavor as a starter so that tobacco taste doesnt push through the flavors I'm using. Small leaves so that I can make proportional adjustments to the blend as I see fit. Sun-cured so that I dont have to end up using the kiln or fire-curing.

Yellow Burley- High yielding tobacco plant. 1 plant can produce 5+ pounds of tobacco leaf per harvest. Good for a volume mix. Air-cured so that I dont have to use the kiln.

Yellow Orinoco- Very sweet. May have to use a kiln for this one. I think it would complement the sweet flavors more and bring a sweet note to a flavor that's more spicy or sour.

What do you guys think? What characteristics would you want to see in a traditional shisha blend? I say traditional because some tobacco flavor would come through like in a pipe blend or cigar. I dont want it to be like newer shishas like AF or Tonic or Fusion that dont allow any of tobacco's more subtle flavors to come through. I want some of those subtleties to come through in my shisha. I want it to be fully flavored but have that last note of tobacco flavor at the end. I enjoy tobacco's flavor in cigars and pipes but I also enjoy the plethora of choices we have in shisha flavors. I'm shooting for the best of both worlds.

You should go to some home/organic farming boards and read up. Tobacco is finicky to grow. And I really don't know about trying to do that in Sac unless you have a greenhouse.
I think I found a grower yesterday. I'm waiting to hear back from him. Cured whole leaf is going to be in the neighborhood of $25-$30lb.

You should have a mod move this into the how-to funhouse subforum. Edited June 21, 2009 by freeOS

[Bulldog_916]

Next season I'm going to be planting some of my own tobacco. I want to make my own shisha and there's no better way to track the process than from seed to processed leaf. Buying pipe tobacco or RYO tobacco is not going to be an option for me because 1. it will likely always taste like cigarettes, 2. pipe tobacco is already pre-blended and I want my own characteristics in the tobacco blend and 3. buying tobacco leaf in bulk is expensive, almost prohibitively so for making small experimental batches. There are a few species of tobacco plants I'm already looking at and each has its own thing to add to the taste of the tobacco.

Samsun - This tobacco is light in flavor and is often used in light flavored cigarettes and oriental pipe blends. I want a tobacco that's light in flavor as a starter so that tobacco taste doesnt push through the flavors I'm using. Small leaves so that I can make proportional adjustments to the blend as I see fit. Sun-cured so that I dont have to end up using the kiln or fire-curing.

Yellow Burley- High yielding tobacco plant. 1 plant can produce 5+ pounds of tobacco leaf per harvest. Good for a volume mix. Air-cured so that I dont have to use the kiln.

Yellow Orinoco- Very sweet. May have to use a kiln for this one. I think it would complement the sweet flavors more and bring a sweet note to a flavor that's more spicy or sour.

What do you guys think? What characteristics would you want to see in a traditional shisha blend? I say traditional because some tobacco flavor would come through like in a pipe blend or cigar. I dont want it to be like newer shishas like AF or Tonic or Fusion that dont allow any of tobacco's more subtle flavors to come through. I want some of those subtleties to come through in my shisha. I want it to be fully flavored but have that last note of tobacco flavor at the end. I enjoy tobacco's flavor in cigars and pipes but I also enjoy the plethora of choices we have in shisha flavors. I'm shooting for the best of both worlds.

You should go to some home/organic farming boards and read up. Tobacco is finicky to grow. And I really don't know about trying to do that in Sac unless you have a greenhouse.
I think I found a grower yesterday. I'm waiting to hear back from him. Cured whole leaf is going to be in the neighborhood of $25-$30lb.

You should have a mod move this into the how-to funhouse subforum.

I wouldnt get enough input if I had it moved there. It's not how to do it that I'm concerned with. Tobacco is actually pretty adept at growing in many environments. It's grown in all 50 states. Same places that you can grow tomatoes or squash you can likely grow tobacco. You just need the right soil mix, which I have. I can grow it more cheaply than it would be to buy it wholesale.

I wanted input on what characteristics people would want in a traditional shisha blend. What would they look for? I got this idea when I heard from a guy who got some turkish shisha blend from a family tobacco farm in the middle east. They literally sell it as they make it, wrapped in wax paper and some cloth. No frills. He said it was the best he's ever tasted. Very subtle type of goodness that is lacking in more popular blends. I want to get feedback on that idea and move with it.

This is mostly for my own purposes. I dont plan to commercialize it in any way. Just share the shisha with friends and make less expensive cigarettes for my parents. Edited June 21, 2009 by Bulldog_916

[SimplexCoda]

Well it would be less expensive, but its time that would be your next concern. I have been lookin into growing it my self also. Appearently curing is not nearly a quick as one might hope. From what i have seen almost every strain of tobacco takes from several months to several years to be fully cured if air cured in a barn. This is why most companies use the flu-curing method. Flu-curing is way faster, but expensive.

I would say look into the time it will take to cure it the way you want to. This is the one reason i have not started my own tobacco growth already. I live in a rent house and will likely be moving within a year or two since i will be graduated from school at that time. This means i dont have a garenteed place to cure the tobacco for the required amount of time.

[Bulldog_916]

It takes 6-8 weeks to air or sun cure most tobacco types. It's the aging process for cigars that takes the most time, up to 6 years. When they talk about curing, they are just talking about the process of the leaves breaking down their starches into sugars. It's relatively quick curing. Once that happens, most cigarette tobaccos are ready to use unless you're really going for a quality blend.

[Lunatic768]

BUMP

i want to hear more

[Bulldog_916]

BUMP

i want to hear more

This kind of requires input from the hookah smoking community. This is the biggest community that I've been a part of. I'd like more input if people want to give me ideas of what they are looking for. I'm not trying to compete with any shisha manufacturer or commercialize it like I said. It's more for the purposes of developing a less expensive alternative if shisha tobacco prices go anywhere higher than where they are. Plus I could help my parents save money by rolling cigarettes as opposed having them buy them.

I think I've chosen the tobacco types that I want to use. Now its up to you guys to tell me what you look for in a traditional blend.

[mjdx88]

Are you looking for what kind of leaves we would like to see blended or would you like to know what style we would like?

[Bulldog_916]

Style, taste, etc. For example, most of the reviews of the tobacco I heard about raved about the subtle spiciness of the shisha. That's a characteristic. They also reviewed highly the cut of the tobacco which was quite large in comparison to something like AF or Starbuzz. I personally like a larger cut. That's one of the things I liked about Pharaohs Shisha. The cut is quite long. I like a flavorful tobacco but something that leaves you wanting a little more so you take another hit. I want something with a sweet tobacco finish after the initial flavor hit. That's something I like about Tangiers Green Tea with Honey beta is that you get the tea on the inhale and the honey sweet finish at the end.

I'm wondering what you all like or what you're looking for in an older style blend that can be closely compared to Nakhla or a similar brand.

[mjdx88]

I would love to see a great shisha that has a strong tobacco flavor, but balanced depending on what it is. Like Coffee, Mint, Coco etc very strong notes of tobacco cigar style not like pipe mixes or ciggs. For the fruit flavors have those notes still there but not as present let the fruit flavors take over. Basically like smoking a bold flavored cigar. Kinda like the CAOs or what used to be the Kailua cigars.

I know this is not for everyone but it would be a seller since no one else makes this style. I know there is JM but from what it sounds like, it sounds like its pipe tobaccy with flavoring.

[Lunatic768]

i think a larger cut is easier to work with than a small one (nakhla/tangiers)
plop in to bowl and smoke kinda cut
i personally like a strong flavor i can identify
nice and wet but not totally dripping
and i think htere is a place for complexity and a place for straight up flavor
a friend described blends should be like the sound spectrum, that join together to make music
there are highs, which can be a sweet tart or otherwise "different" flavor (cherry, lemon, lime, orange, sour, licorice 2 apple ect)
there are the midrange flavors (something basic, unexciting, easily identifiable, not too "offensive" to the senses peach, apple, mixed fruit )
and your lows (floral flavors, that add that underlying "umph" mint, rose, kashmir, jasmine, honey, cinnamon, cardamon)

that relates to mixing, but i think it relates to making your own as well
hes blend are usually quite good, except i find the real flowers a little odd, i havent had enough experience with them
this is just a thought that i like
this might not be the place for that rant but oh well
i look forward to hearing more about your growing
and i will continue to bump this thread

-Steve

[AmunRa]

I'd got for the high yield plant first. Most likely, you're going to have some issues getting started, and it sounds like the more you have to play with, the more chances you'll have.

Also as an aside, be sure you check your local laws on growing tobacco. I know in VA, there are some restrictions on growing it, and someone once told me you had to have a permit. I don't know if that's true, but its worth checking before you run into a problem.

THis sounds like a lot of work, but if you stick with it, then the rewards may be great. Good luck and keep us posted.

[ilikemyusername]

go with the yellow orinoco, you chould be able to sun cure it by laying it on a tarp wetting it rolling it loosely and sitting in the sun. just be careful, theres a fine line between curing and composting with this method.

[Vampy6997]

I was searching tobacco seeds online, and there was one company that offered a pretty good mix. This would offer you the ability to attempt growing several kinds and applying identical ideas to each type to see which the best is for each flavor blend and/or curing process.

ie-have a "control" for each type of seed...then whatever you're wanting to do, try it out on each type of seed...just make sure you keep them well organized, and good notes, and have enough planted to be able to experiment with.

Also...sometimes plants aren't exactly what they say, so you might want to research the appearance of each type of tobacco so that when they do sprout, etc, you know they are what they say they are.

My mom had a jalapeno plant that apparently ended up being a hot decorative pepper plant. (lol)....so seed mixups do happen, even in the best scenarios...

really awesome idea.

[gunsboy]

I have no experience in this but I am one of the small cut tobacco.

[Arcane]

i like the nakhla sherezade cut (long strips)...also, i think the blend of tobacco should vary with the flavoring. for sour, spiced flavors, etc...use more of the sweet tobacco so it comes through.

for sweeter, fruit flavors...go easy on the sweet tobacco so it doesn't get candyish...

i know this requires more work for you, but it would make your shisha stand out above the rest.

[ilikemyusername]

so then, how come cigars smell like burning donkey shit since curing converts starch to sugar?

[Bulldog_916]

so then, how come cigars smell like burning donkey shit since curing converts starch to sugar?

They dont if they are made right. I guess taste is taste. Individual to each person.

Thanks for the pointers and characteristic preferences guys. It helps me to find the right mix of tobaccos so that I can start with a more complete idea of what I'm looking for.