Coal In The Center

[Lunatic768]

So i just got my medium phunnel
loaded it up with some OG orange soda (probably in need of a little more acclimation, but its smoking well)
so i light up 4 golden canaries
put three on the very edges
harsh and thin
ok so i go to two
still no good
so i remember eric mentioning he puts 4 canaries over the center of his large phunnels
so i take one coal, and put it over the center whole of the phunnel
INSTANT clouds, good flavor
ive since placed a second leaning on the first
all i hear is about people doing small bits of coal on the edges
yet i have my best tangiers sessions when its in the center
anybody else try this technique?
also, if eric can shed more light on why this works, and how exactly he does it, thatd be awesome

Edit: UPDATE so the clouds were lacking so i leaned a third canary on the center coal... huge clouds

try this today Edited June 26, 2009 by Lunatic768

[jezter6]

When a coal vibrates into the center of my phunnel (due to slanted bowl and massive rumbling of hookah) - I get NO SMOKE.

Rocking the outsides with 2 cocos on a mini has always produced great results.

[bungiman]

When a coal vibrates into the center of my phunnel (due to slanted bowl and massive rumbling of hookah) - I get NO SMOKE.

Rocking the outsides with 2 cocos on a mini has always produced great results.

Maybe by the time it has vibrated to the center it has cooled down too much?
Just a thought.

[Hookie The Hookah]

Dude, I'm so glad you posted this. A few weeks back I was smoking OG orange soda and we were down to just three tiny coconara nubs. They kinda rolled/vibrated into the center and we started getting (relatively, for the size of the coals at least) big clouds and perhaps the best flavor we had had yet. It was crazy, I'll try this later and see if I can recreate it.

[Hookie The Hookah]

It works!

[dizzbizz]

Do you poke a hole under the coal?

[Zyram]

Someone mentioned this a while back, I've since tried it and had some VERY nice results, though I did get some harshness for the first bit as I think I need to go down a coal size with the 3k coals I was using, I've not managed to get a coco coal to do the same good clouds when on the center yet though, still working with it. But yea, I like the center location it seems to work very well.

-Z

[EvansLight]

What makes this work for some and not for others, is the pattern you punch in the foil. Different patterns mean different results with different coal placement. Wow thats alotta dif.

[delSol_si]

Ya, I was going to ask what kind of hole pattern you were using, EL beat me to it. Are you poking one in the center? I have never been able to get a good session without the use of the tealight mod. I might have to try this.

[jaytoo3]

I'd have to agree... This method delivers. Clouds and flavor. In my mouth. Yes.

[Lunatic768]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OptC1otpLt0...feature=related

i follow this packing and hole technique to a tee
so there are several holes in the center
or this is my picture
usually i poke holes to the bottom with a toothpick, but this time i went shallower
hence smaller holes
(cell phone cameras FTL)

[delSol_si]

Holy shit, I always think I am poking lots of holes, then I look at posts like that and realize I'm not. Jeez that is a lot of holes! Maybe that is why I got through so much coal and it isn't working for me. Thanks for posting that.

[delSol_si]

Just watched your video...it looks like after you press it down 2 quarters, then when you wrap the foil around the sides of the bowl, you are getting rid of the lip, is this correct? In the video, were you putting the coal in the middle? I like the "take the fuckers off" part, lol.

[Tyler]

I'd be scared of a flare flake going dwon teh phunnel into my stem into my hose and into my mouth :-\ I know its probably small odds of that happening but I'd still be scared lol

[Sonthert]

I poke lots of holes and center the charcoal.

I'm going to make a series of comments, some regarding Tangiers and some regarding other brands. Comments about other brands may not apply to all brands, that is, for instance, Nakhla might act like Tangiers, rather than not like Tangiers. Also, I will interchange, technically incorrectly, thermal conduction and heat loss. I am assuming that, although not completely correct, that a system that consumes more thermal energy is a poorer conductor of heat. This is technically wrong, but the net effects are the same. Whether heat is wasted in a system by a chemical process or its lost by a material's thermal properties, the effect is the same, more heat is required to get the same incremental increase in available thermal energy.

Some people "panic" when the Tangiers bowl starts off a little harsh. They take charcoal off, but the best plan is to maintain the heat and wait ten minutes before removing charcoal...unless its obviously too much heat. It will get through this initial period faster with more heat.

Two theories, either one of which (or neither) may be the actual case. More holes make charcoal burn hotter. Why? Metal tends to conduct heat away from the charcoal, making it cool off. The air holes leave a small place for the charcoal to burn hot. The more and larger the holes, the less metal in contact with the charcoal and the hotter they burn. When you take a rip, more air flows through the head and over the coals and heating the charcoal up. The more and the larger the holes are, the hotter the coals get from this airflow. The air itself heating up makes very little difference. Some people say "Oh, when I poke more holes, it gets harsh." Which I would say implies they should be poking more holes and using less charcoal, but its a matter of what works for you. I think it just wastes charcoal to poke fewer holes. You might say "Well, if the charcoal is burning cooler, it will burn slower, so it doesn't make a difference." That is partially true. The top of the charcoal also burns, in addition to the bottom of the charcoal. The top isn't affected by the contact with metal, so it burns at a constant rate, slightly faster with more and larger holes, since more airflow will burn the top slightly more, but the airflow will be less and the confluence of holes will affect the top of the charcoal less. So the bottom of the charcoal is affected more by amount of contact with the metal foil/screen, the top is more affected by time. Since the top of the charcoal actually provides less heating for the bowl, since it is further away from the bowl, you have two general functions, one for large holes, one for small holes. If we view the heat from the top of the charcoal as more wasted than heat from the bottom (since it has less of an influence), the longer the charcoal burns, the more heat is wasted...since the top of the charcoal is more time dependent. Sure, you save more heat from the bottom of the coal with smaller, fewer holes, but the heat from the top is still kickin' bleeding away, more and more as time wears on. So, more larger holes save heat=saves charcoal. You will need to use less at a finite point and time on the bowl, but use more pieces in the same amount of time...but ultimately, use less. You might use 4 units on the bowl, in time period t, and changing 5 times, with fewer, smaller holes. With more, larger holes you might use only 3 on the bowl, but need to change 6 times. Since metal conducts heat better than ceramic, the closer the charcoal are to the side of the bowl, the less heat gets conducted away from the charcoal by the foil, assuming the warm bowl side acts as a heat reservoir, retaining heat, rather than conducting it. The closer the charcoal is to the center, the more open foil there is to diffuse and radiate heat off, so the more heat is wasted. Larger, more holes, make the foil less conductive, replacing highly thermally conductive foil with empty holes filled with air, which conducts heat very poorly.

Second Idea: Tangiers tobacco, since it has less water, it uses less heat to boil. It definitely needs less heat since water sucks up lots of energy to boil. Water has a high heat of vaporization, so it takes lots of energy to make the phase change from liquid to vapor. Phase changes upwards (L -> V) make the system cool off. This is the principle a cooling tower works on. The higher the water content, therefore, the more energy invested in the phase change, less on thermal content, and the less cooling effect that occurs. It would follow then that Tangiers smoke is "cooler" (?) This process also is what makes the surface of Pluto cooler than a few hundred feet above the surface as it approaches perihelion. Its called informally the "Reverse Greenhouse effect". Other brands have more water and suck up more heat. There is a balancing thermal sink in the system, however, the sides of the bowl. The material (glass/ceramic) doesn't conduct heat as well as Tangiers tobacco. Presumably, other brands don't conduct heat as well, so the sides of the bowl make a relatively better conductor of heat, in relation to the tobacco. The other brands may suck up so much heat, that the sides of the bowl may conduct heat better (waste less heat). So, I would surmise, from this line of reasoning, that other brands of tobacco will perform better with the charcoal at the sides of the bowl, owing to the better heat conduction of the sides in relation to the tobacco. The closer the charcoal is to the side of the bowl, the more heat is directed through the sides. More heat is conducted through a surface, the closer the heat source is to the surface. The closer the charcoal is to the side of the bowl, the more heat will go through the bowl material, the closer it is to the center of the bowl, the more heat will go through the tobacco. Tangiers will conduct heat better with the charcoal near the center, since the tobacco conducts heat better than the sides, relatively speaking. This is why some of you are getting better results with charcoal in the center, some with charcoal on the sides. Either one of the cases, if either are true, might explain the differences you guys are talking about. regarding charcoal. Its not like some of you know what you are talking about and the others are crazy.

Also, more, smaller pieces will burn hotter for the same mass of coal, since more surface area is burning. You might put slightly more charcoal on and move the charcoal off to the sides (if you are smoking Tangiers) to cool off the bowl. Perhaps you are smoking some other brand and get the opposite results, you move the charcoal off to the sides to make more heat.

So, Tangiers conducts heat more poorly, but needs less heat to boil. Other brands conduct heat better (since they have more water), but need more heat to boil.

Also, glass vs. ceramic creates a problem in the salient features of the system. I was looking around and found that glass is a better conductor of heat than ceramic. I thought it was worse! Learned something again! So, in terms, a glass bowl will act to conduct more heat away from the tobacco, acting to radiate more heat, wasting more heat. A ceramic bowl will function to conduct heat more poorly and keep more energy in the tobacco.

I'm just thinking out loud here...I could be partially wrong in a couple of points.


How many of you guys who are saying moving charcoal to the edges to increase the heat are smoking non-Tangiers?

[Lunatic768]

Just watched your video...it looks like after you press it down 2 quarters, then when you wrap the foil around the sides of the bowl, you are getting rid of the lip, is this correct? In the video, were you putting the coal in the middle? I like the "take the fuckers off" part, lol.

THIS IS NOT ME!
sorry just wanted to make that clear
credit goes to colibridon, however you spell that
and the only thing i dont follow is the amount of heat he puts on, and that fact that he spreads them around the bowl
i use that for the packing and hole poking
and yes you are getting rid of the lip, and creating a little space for the tobacco to sponge back up, i believe

I'd be scared of a flare flake going dwon teh phunnel into my stem into my hose and into my mouth :-\ I know its probably small odds of that happening but I'd still be scared lol

you'll have some ash in your base, but thats all
its a small amount and would never get to your hose
the water stops it

Eric, thank you for your post
they are quite enlightening
i think i would probably stick with larger holes for now
if i took your meaning properly from that post
and i use the center trick for nakhla only if my coal has burned down or i dont feel like doing real heat management and just let the coals sit
and i know is probably doesnt matter, but do you break up your canaries into their coal size, or do you let the bar stay togetheru

[ikon]

Smoking Tangiers OG Cinnamon and I put a single coco in the center and I got clouds and decent flavor the first pull. hrm although after a few I needed an additional coco on the edge

[TexasHookah]

Interesting.. I always put coals on the outside of the phunnel bowl. I will definitely have to try this out.

[Lunatic768]

Smoking Tangiers OG Cinnamon and I put a single coco in the center and I got clouds and decent flavor the first pull. hrm although after a few I needed an additional coco on the edge

what i did was i used the golden canaries to warm up the bowl, and then when they burned out i used a ch quicklight on the center with a wind cover bowl.
it worked for awhile
but when it burned down i could have added a second near the center
My thought is you have one on the center, and then you lean the second coal ontop of it
havent tried with coconut coals, but i will on my next session

[Hookie The Hookah]

To clarify my original success story, I put two cocos dead center with no holes in the middle (in fact I use significantly less holes than seems to be the norm here). I was able to smoke the coals down without moving them. No harshness, no diminishing flavor or clouds (until the end).

[Lunatic768]

To clarify my original success story, I put two cocos dead center with no holes in the middle (in fact I use significantly less holes than seems to be the norm here). I was able to smoke the coals down without moving them. No harshness, no diminishing flavor or clouds (until the end).

sounds good to me
will try this method with the rest of my orange soda
when i get a chance... sigh