Why Are People So Sensitive?

[tinyj316]

Okay... I get it... clubbing seals isn't PC... sure, its morbidly humorous, but I don't understand why people get all uptight about it... They're just jokes... I've got more sense than to go clubbing seals... I'm an animal lover, I could never hurt an animal... I would venture a guess and say that 99.99% of us on this forum wouldn't club a seal or knowingly hurt an animal (unless we're hunting for our food)... so why are people so uptight about it?

If I tell a blonde joke, do I really think that all blondes are dumb? No. So why, HF, do people get all bent out of shape about seal jokes??

I'm really curious on this one... It seems kind of asinine... its not like we're cracking DBJ's

[thehelios]

People feel the need to uphold society's standards. Those standards are created by "rights" groups and pushed harder on people by media criticism. You don't do what's "right", you end up as a bad guy on TV.

I.E. OMFG?!?!? You said that he was BLACK?!? Psh, you're clearly prejudice and he's clearly African-American.

[thehelios]

I just need to add this to my previous post. It fits in perfectly:

[HookDonHookah]

HAHA you could put that pic into every post in here which handles philosophy

[Johnny_D]

Hmm.

Oversensitivity I suspect with a backdrop of being brought up via the namby-pamby brigade I suspect.

JD

[Svaals]

That is an awesome flow chart.

I know where you're coming from. Shock humor is funny, unless you're the person being offended. However, being offended has more to do with the person than the joke. When someone wants to take offense, they will, even when they know it's a joke. Life is a lot easier, though, when you just chill and not let insignificant things like that bother you.

[kvtaco17]

don't club baby seal... don't club

[RingsMaster]

people are so uptight i believe because its just common courtesy to not say things like that to other people. this is what most people do, they think about what they are going to say before they say it and then determine if it will offend anyone. now im not saying that the intention of this seal thing was to offend anyone but i guess it did and thats why its a big deal. im sure no one intended to offend anyone but we must think before we act. obviously someone was offended, so lets drop the whole thing, yes its a joke but when people dont take it as such you have to ask yourself, is it worth some big fight over and all the hassle or is it easier to apologize to the poeple who were offended and drop the whole matter, lets act mature about this one.

[tinyj316]

people are so uptight i believe because its just common courtesy to not say things like that to other people. this is what most people do, they think about what they are going to say before they say it and then determine if it will offend anyone. now im not saying that the intention of this seal thing was to offend anyone but i guess it did and thats why its a big deal. im sure no one intended to offend anyone but we must think before we act. obviously someone was offended, so lets drop the whole thing, yes its a joke but when people dont take it as such you have to ask yourself, is it worth some big fight over and all the hassle or is it easier to apologize to the poeple who were offended and drop the whole matter, lets act mature about this one.

I suppose that's the fundamental difference... People feel they have the right to not being offended... I say, that infringes on my right of freedom of speech, and that offends me. Why apologize for something that doesn't merit an apology? Does that not make the apology insincere, and, in essence, an insult? Personally I think that every person has the right to offend, and the right to be offended. That's human nature. Personally, I rarely apologize when I offend someone (speaking in the context of jokes or ideological or moral beliefs). Mostly because they're either too up-tight about what it is that offended them, or because if I did "apologize" I wouldn't mean it. I feel that's a bigger offense than saying something in jest. I don't go around taking stabs at things I don't understand, or are beyond my scope of reasoning. I do, however, like to push the buttons of those that are irked. Mostly because if you push them enough, they begin to realize that they're getting irked for no real reason, and in turn they lighten up.

Now, if someone said (and it was actually true) that their friend or family member is a seal who got clubbed... then I probably wouldn't crack the joke. Since I know that its not possible for a human to be related to a seal, I know they're full of it, and would proceed to crack jokes because this person obviously is a little off kilter... but then again, that's just me... I've never claimed to be a saint, nor have I claimed to have the most tact.

[r1v3th3ad]

the baby seals stuff is not appreciated because the first round of it was a disguised nht reference, just baiting the mods

[Vampy6997]

I will say I was offended about the clubbing, but not so much me as I'd rather not see a pic of an animal about to be murdered. ie--japanese lady dressed sexy in stilettos crushing a small kitten on video with her heel, apparently I got the version without sound and the one with sound was horrendous. Um...since then I've really not wanted to see anything like that, and it's not much to do with me being vegan, it's just I don't like to see anyone/anything being tortured and killed...the state of fear, etc.

I didn't say anything about the seal clubbing, one way or the other, just the seal/grommet stuff. I kept quiet about the clubbing thing, went about my day, and didn't let the seal thing get to me. I have seen worse (kitten) ...

[Vampy6997]

the baby seals stuff is not appreciated because the first round of it was a disguised nht reference, just baiting the mods

and that's something I did not know. o_O no need explaining.

[ilikemyusername]

the baby seals stuff is not appreciated because the first round of it was a disguised nht reference, just baiting the mods

thats actually exactly what I was going to say, and for the record I don't mind sick humor, you wanna hear something really funny.....

puppy walks into a bear trap.....

[Imsomint]

It's great seeing discussion about this topic on this forum, kinda like watching a guy at his first AA meeting.

[RingsMaster]

people are so uptight i believe because its just common courtesy to not say things like that to other people. this is what most people do, they think about what they are going to say before they say it and then determine if it will offend anyone. now im not saying that the intention of this seal thing was to offend anyone but i guess it did and thats why its a big deal. im sure no one intended to offend anyone but we must think before we act. obviously someone was offended, so lets drop the whole thing, yes its a joke but when people dont take it as such you have to ask yourself, is it worth some big fight over and all the hassle or is it easier to apologize to the poeple who were offended and drop the whole matter, lets act mature about this one.

I suppose that's the fundamental difference... People feel they have the right to not being offended... I say, that infringes on my right of freedom of speech, and that offends me. Why apologize for something that doesn't merit an apology? Does that not make the apology insincere, and, in essence, an insult? Personally I think that every person has the right to offend, and the right to be offended. That's human nature. Personally, I rarely apologize when I offend someone (speaking in the context of jokes or ideological or moral beliefs). Mostly because they're either too up-tight about what it is that offended them, or because if I did "apologize" I wouldn't mean it. I feel that's a bigger offense than saying something in jest. I don't go around taking stabs at things I don't understand, or are beyond my scope of reasoning. I do, however, like to push the buttons of those that are irked. Mostly because if you push them enough, they begin to realize that they're getting irked for no real reason, and in turn they lighten up.

Now, if someone said (and it was actually true) that their friend or family member is a seal who got clubbed... then I probably wouldn't crack the joke. Since I know that its not possible for a human to be related to a seal, I know they're full of it, and would proceed to crack jokes because this person obviously is a little off kilter... but then again, that's just me... I've never claimed to be a saint, nor have I claimed to have the most tact.

you are right i will admit as i dont see the harm in senseless humor as long as it doesn't inflict any really damage to anyone( physical or mental). however i am a firm believe that for all of us to get along better as a society we have to understand each other and have a certain respect for one another. im not telling you what to do just my stance on things, lol didnt want to come off as an ass or anything. but in all seriousness if someone on this forum says something really bothers them and that it offends them i dont see why we cant just take it down. its not like leaving it up proves anything it just creates tension throughout our forum and in turn creates problems. all im saying is that we need to have respect for each other, if you want anything past that its your choice but i think respecting one another is a minimum.

[Arcane]

the baby seals stuff is not appreciated because the first round of it was a disguised nht reference, just baiting the mods

that is reason enough to not mention around the forums


as for other topics, i don't really have a problem with it unless you're intentionally being offensive..

[RingsMaster]

the baby seals stuff is not appreciated because the first round of it was a disguised nht reference, just baiting the mods

that is reason enough to not mention around the forums


as for other topics, i don't really have a problem with it unless you're intentionally being offensive..

im with you on that one

[Rani]

While I am a huge proponent of freedom of speech, and love a good debate that both sides are passionate about, I consider lacking acknowledgment that you don't have the right to go around offending others shows a deplorable immaturity. Is that harsh? Yes, but.....

1) Those societies which inherently consider the feelings of others before personal selfish desires are the longest lived, the most peaceful and display the greatest psychological advancesments. The first downward slide in any advanced civilization is when the choices of the few began to outweigh the greater good which diminishes cooperation in that very civilization and leads to it's disintegration.

2) Understanding and accepting the feelings of others without feeling the need to "correct" them is the first step in being a compassionate human being.

3) Being argumentative and offensive without respect to others simply doesn't work. You cannot advance yourself without the cooperation of others because no one can do anything absolutely alone. There is no such thing as inherent existence - everything is dependent on the assistance of others. You don't get that assistance if you arbitrarily alienate everyone just because you think your view is more valuable than theirs.

All and all, as a thinking and (hopefully) growing and compasionate human being..... I'd rather follow the advice of Confucius....

"Better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

'Rani

[Svaals]

All and all, as a thinking and (hopefully) growing and compasionate human being..... I'd rather follow the advice of Confucius....

"Better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."

The ideals of Confucius were certainly noble, but at the end of the day, idealism must be taken with a grain of salt. I prefer a heavy dose of nihilistic reality. Nietzsche said that compassion derives not from the love of man, but from the love of one's own ideals. Just be mindful that your ideals don't offend someone Else's reality.

I must not get the NHT reference. It looked to me like a crude comment, said in jest. It would have been quite another thing if we had been told about how fun the sport of clubbing seals is.

Sometimes I think that our quest for a perfect society takes the drama out of life. That, too, is a basic human need, and in its absence, people tend to be melodramatic to fill that need.

[tinyj316]

Rani, I don't mind treading lightly around certain people... I guess the point of my post was that people are offended too easily. I'm not saying that I go around offending people for the sake of offending people... but what I am saying is, just because I say something that you might find offensive, doesn't mean that I shouldn't be saying it, or it should not have the right to say it. I try to be as civil as possible when it comes to matters like this. What it all boils down to is don't tell me I can't say something, just because you don't like what I'm saying. It doesn't mean what I'm saying is right, but it doesn't mean what you're saying is right either. We can agree to disagree, but just because you're offended doesn't mean I'm in the wrong...in fact, it might be you that's in the wrong.

When it comes to "correcting" people, what I was trying to get at was the fact that people have strong ideals (which isn't bad) about certain things. For example: one of my pro-life colleagues asked me what my stance was on abortion. I told her that I don't have a vagina, and I've never gotten someone pregnant, therefore I can't have an opinion about it. She took offense to this. It didn't mesh with what she thought. I told her she was the one being ignorant about the situation, and went on to ask "how can I make a predetermined judgment about what constitutes the beginning of a human life (she argued conception, I'm not sure how I feel on the matter), and what my emotional connection would be to the 'little bun in the oven'". She became irate with me at this point, calling me a "soulless-baby-killing-liberal-commie" so I told her that if she wanted to label me as a "...baby-killer...", she may, but I would in turn label her as "ignorant-self-absorbed-pro-life-bitch who has unwarranted self importance". Needless to say, that last little jab made her realize that she was being unreasonable in regards to her action. Does that make this point any more clear?

As for your third point, I too dabbled in pacifism once... I agree with 85-90% of what you bring up... People can't do certain things (ie: "going it alone") because when we are young we're told we can't, therefore we don't try to acquire that skill set...but that's a different thread... Also, I don't really agree with you're stance on inherent existence; however, this is more of an ideological discussion that transcends this thread though I will say I do not subscribe to the Buddhist principles on the matter...I believe more of what Plato says... The rest of it though... Like I said, I don't go offending for the sake of offending...

Does this clear any of my points up?

[Charley]

comedy is supposed to be offensive its that little bit of self loathing that makes it truly funny.

or maybe not


all i know is

[Rani]

Rani, I don't mind treading lightly around certain people... I guess the point of my post was that people are offended too easily. I'm not saying that I go around offending people for the sake of offending people... but what I am saying is, just because I say something that you might find offensive, doesn't mean that I shouldn't be saying it, or it should not have the right to say it. I try to be as civil as possible when it comes to matters like this. What it all boils down to is don't tell me I can't say something, just because you don't like what I'm saying. It doesn't mean what I'm saying is right, but it doesn't mean what you're saying is right either. We can agree to disagree, but just because you're offended doesn't mean I'm in the wrong...in fact, it might be you that's in the wrong.

When it comes to "correcting" people, what I was trying to get at was the fact that people have strong ideals (which isn't bad) about certain things. For example: one of my pro-life colleagues asked me what my stance was on abortion. I told her that I don't have a vagina, and I've never gotten someone pregnant, therefore I can't have an opinion about it. She took offense to this. It didn't mesh with what she thought. I told her she was the one being ignorant about the situation, and went on to ask "how can I make a predetermined judgment about what constitutes the beginning of a human life (she argued conception, I'm not sure how I feel on the matter), and what my emotional connection would be to the 'little bun in the oven'". She became irate with me at this point, calling me a "soulless-baby-killing-liberal-commie" so I told her that if she wanted to label me as a "...baby-killer...", she may, but I would in turn label her as "ignorant-self-absorbed-pro-life-bitch who has unwarranted self importance". Needless to say, that last little jab made her realize that she was being unreasonable in regards to her action. Does that make this point any more clear?

As for your third point, I too dabbled in pacifism once... I agree with 85-90% of what you bring up... People can't do certain things (ie: "going it alone") because when we are young we're told we can't, therefore we don't try to acquire that skill set...but that's a different thread... Also, I don't really agree with you're stance on inherent existence; however, this is more of an ideological discussion that transcends this thread though I will say I do not subscribe to the Buddhist principles on the matter...I believe more of what Plato says... The rest of it though... Like I said, I don't go offending for the sake of offending...

Does this clear any of my points up?

Yes, and no..... In the situation you described (a very heated, very personal issue), I don't see why it was necessary to stoop to the name calling level in return. Rolling around in the mud in the pig pen only gets you both dirty and the pigs happen to enjoy it. You gave a valid and reasonable answer. Her going beyond that is her issue. Rise above has validity. That having been said, you appear to be under the impression that Buddhists are pacifist and nihilistic - a common misconception and while there are certain sects who can be both (as there are in any group) in general I find other Buddhists to be neither. They are afterall the primary innovators of martial arts - not exactly a pacifist "let me be a victim" kind of thought process. Most in fact are strong proponents of standing up for your beliefs while not imposing yours on someone else because the ultimate answer dwells deep in that inconvenient little "free will" issue. But again that's a conversation for another thread.

'Rani

[Sonthert]

If we are to be free, we need to have the freedom of speech.

If you are offended, tough. I don't go around insisting people who disagree with me have a muzzle attached to them because their opinion offends me. I respect other people's well-thought out opinions.

Thomas Jefferson (or Ben Franklin) said "With Liberty, comes excess." When people are free, some people will act the fool and take their freedom too far. They will make dumb, insensitive comments. Nothing to be done about it. You're perfectly welcome to tell them you think they're being insensitive, but don't try to restrain their freedom. You are then entitled to that same freedom.

You claim the remark was insensitive...that's your opinion. Whether the intent was to offend or not. It's each of our rights as Americans to say what we choose to, within very slight boundaries. Hopefully people won't utilize their right to go out of their way to offend people, but they have that right. The problem is, if we let popular opinion determine what is offensive, then none of us have the freedom of speech. Don't take it lightly. You might find a point where you want to have it available.

So, I agree with Tiny.

In other words, if someone says "clubbing baby seals is a good hobby to have." and you say "That's offensive." don't be surprised if someone retorts with "So? You offended." I think you should tell people if you're offended; some people offend without intent. There's no need to repeat yourself or get upset.

Also, in terms, I believe from the moment of conception, a fetus is a human being. My general response to anti-abortion people is: "So?"

Bearing in mind, I am a political pacifist. I had to put up with ignorant people calling me unAmerican and unpatriotic when explained why I was opposed to the Iraqi war from the outset. If you support the death penalty, American troops being sent overseas or believe that people dying in Africa isn't our problem, then you shouldn't care about abortion being legal or not. Lots of hypocrisy out there. If its an American woman's baby, you don't want her to kill it, but you supported the U.S. going into Iraq and killing women and children there...thats some double standard.

I do disagree with you, Tiny, on one point. I believe that the subject of abortion is a human issue, not just a woman's issue. Men are more than entitled to discuss it and have an opinion about it. Then we should respect what a woman decides, because she's the one who has to have ultimate responsibility for it. I'm sure as women here can attest to, men aren't that reliable in these matters.

[Rani]

If we are to be free, we need to have the freedom of speech.

If you are offended, tough. I don't go around insisting people who disagree with me have a muzzle attached to them because their opinion offends me. I respect other people's well-thought out opinions.

Thomas Jefferson (or Ben Franklin) said "With Liberty, comes excess." When people are free, some people will act the fool and take their freedom too far. They will make dumb, insensitive comments. Nothing to be done about it. You're perfectly welcome to tell them you think they're being insensitive, but don't try to restrain their freedom. You are then entitled to that same freedom.

You claim the remark was insensitive...that's your opinion. Whether the intent was to offend or not. It's each of our rights as Americans to say what we choose to, within very slight boundaries. Hopefully people won't utilize their right to go out of their way to offend people, but they have that right. The problem is, if we let popular opinion determine what is offensive, then none of us have the freedom of speech. Don't take it lightly. You might find a point where you want to have it available.

So, I agree with Tiny.

In other words, if someone says "clubbing baby seals is a good hobby to have." and you say "That's offensive." don't be surprised if someone retorts with "So? You offended." I think you should tell people if you're offended; some people offend without intent. There's no need to repeat yourself or get upset.

Also, in terms, I believe from the moment of conception, a fetus is a human being. My general response to anti-abortion people is: "So?"

Bearing in mind, I am a political pacifist. I had to put up with ignorant people calling me unAmerican and unpatriotic when explained why I was opposed to the Iraqi war from the outset. If you support the death penalty, American troops being sent overseas or believe that people dying in Africa isn't our problem, then you shouldn't care about abortion being legal or not. Lots of hypocrisy out there. If its an American woman's baby, you don't want her to kill it, but you supported the U.S. going into Iraq and killing women and children there...thats some double standard.

I do disagree with you, Tiny, on one point. I believe that the subject of abortion is a human issue, not just a woman's issue. Men are more than entitled to discuss it and have an opinion about it. Then we should respect what a woman decides, because she's the one who has to have ultimate responsibility for it. I'm sure as women here can attest to, men aren't that reliable in these matters.

All incredibly valid points and all of which I agree with although that might surprise some people. I'm often viewed as coming down on the side of behaving "politically correct". I am, but not by any way of regulating behavior. I'm having trouble explaining I guess.... In my view of a better world, people would willingly choose to consider the feelings of others before acting or expressing themselves in ways that might damage others. Even on a seemingly superficial issue. I think maybe it boils down to feeling connected and compassionate with others, by trying to stand in their shoes for a moment. That also means as you said Eric, being able to take responsibility for saying "that offended me" and accept the other person may not give a rats ass. However...... The culmination of all we are is in great part determined by what has happened to us in the past. To tell someone they have offended you might not matter right this moment but might be part of an epiphany later in their life. Lots of people like to claim you can't change anyone, but I find people changing all the time based on their exposure to what life brings them. So I don't believe someone should hold their tongue for the sake of being politically correct. I believe they should feel the connection with another human being and choose for themselves to do something positive rather than potentially court offense. If that makes any sense..... So I encourage everyone to choose to govern themselves in the interest of others. If someone isn't prepared to do that, then they aren't. That's just the way it is. If that's the case, it becomes my responsibility to remove myself from their ability to inflict offense.

On the abortion issue (thread jack, huh), all I can do is tell what I personally believe. Abortion should never be necessary. Birth control is advanced enough no one should ever find themselves in the necessity of terminating an unplanned pregnancy. Every female on the face of this earth should have all the facts, information and medical assistance in controlling her own reproduction. I find it incredibly interesting that the majority of pro-life proponents are usually the same people who don't want birth control taught in junior high school because of course abstinence is the only way kids that young are allowed to function. And it's working oh, so well, isn't it? Nevertheless, should a woman find herself in the position of needing to consider terminating a pregnancy, I would hope she would discuss it with the male involved and consider his feelings as well. Open communication being the key to just about every issue - not just this one. Sure, I've made mistakes in my life but remembering back I can't remember any issue in my life that couldn't have been solved through working communication and thinking outside the box if necessary.

'Rani

[Sonthert]

My friend got pregnant. She was on birth control pills, had regular menstruations until she realized she might be pregnant 3 1/2 months in. Too late for an abortion. Fortunately, She doesn't believe in abortion, although she supports women's right to abort unwanted pregnancies, like myself. So her, her the father and baby are all doing fine. She's even back to smoking hookah. She very sensibly decided to breastfeed. Which I always loudly endorse...one of my few moralistic tendencies.