Computer Building

[bungiman]

lol I've used gskill for 4 years now and had nothing but troubles, even with extensive overclocking.

While nvidia has the superior chipsets, A teacher of mine had a serious video editing rig (quad core, lot of ram etc.) and he had an 8600gs and he was able to render video as quick as the dell machine at my school with dual top of the nvidia workstation cards. ATI drivers are great in windows, and shes not going to be using Linux or mac so it's not that big of a deal if ati lacks support for those 2 oses. All in all you don't need a $300 video card to render video, it's more of a cpu job. Yes the video card helps, but It isn't worth the giant price increase.

I am too qualified in the field of IT, I have my A+ and Net+. Not as good as a degree, but I am about to head into college. So don't judge me too quick buddy.

I agree that most part video rendering is not GPU intensive. However, nVidia changes that with their Quadro Line!! nVidia allows certain things to run on the GPU, which is significantly faster than most CPUs. If I was gonna through caution to the wind I would buy the graphics card below. Additionally I would read the nVidia article I have attached to see exactly what they are doing.

The downside, the card costs more, you have to pay for a plugin to enable it, and you won't have as much beer because you will finish work so soon.

I mentioned earlier that creating a system for video editing wouldn't be cheap. I stand by that and still recommend a good video card. I would probably swap out my previous recommendation for video card for this one, even though it is $150 more.

You get what you pay for.

You buy a crappy chinese hookah, you know what you are getting. You get a KM, Mya, or MZ you also know what you are getting. The same applies here, you can spend the extra money and in the end save time and money. Or you can skimp now, regret it later, and end up paying for it in the end.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/builtforadobepros.html
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814133272
http://www.nvidia.com/object/builtforadobepros_plugins.html <- Plugin for $250

[*sigh*]

What is your budget? I know your build is around $1100, but what are you looking to spend?

For the editing, you are asking for a software, but what kind of software do you normally use? Do you do a lot of things like HD video editing as this is considerably more intensive. Go with an i7 rig, it's a bit more expensive now, but you will beneift from it.

Don't go with XP or 64bit XP. Run the windows 7 RC client until windows 7 is released and then go buy it.

As for a video card, a 9500gt may be plenty for you, just depends on if you do much HD stuff and what program you are going to be using. A lot of video editing programs don't gain much from a GPU, as rendering is extremely CPU intensive. However, Premiere CS4 for example can render on certain high end workstation level nvidia GPU's so this is also worth considering.

As far as a fast HDD, sure velociraptors are nice and quick, however when you are dealing with a build around $1000 it is dumb to spend 1/4 of your budget on an HDD. Any large capacity current drives that are out there right now, especially the newer Western Digital Caviar Blacks (Not green) are extremely quick HDD's and many times you actually gain speed going to a larger capacity (750-1.5TB) over say a smaller HDD, which is very beneficial speed wise, but if gives you plenty of space to store pictures and videos.

Oh and nvidia chipsets blow hard, partially due to the fact intel never fully supported them, and ATI doens't for obvious reasons, however there is a reason they really aren't doing high end chipsets much anymore (especially with intels now native support of SLI on their own chipsets, x58 for example). Nvidia GPU cards are great, but so are ATI cards. Nvidia does have the fastest single and multiple GPU cards out there, however ATI has a lot of cards that get you much more bang for the buck. However there are so many factors on what to choose, budget, use etc... One is not "superior" to the other. Edited August 1, 2009 by *sigh*

[EvansLight]

delsol ur correct on the ram thing!

if ur gonna do vista 64bit ultimate is the way to go... but pricey... pm me for an alternative

and its no problem

Actually Vista 32bit OS does support more RAM now. I don't know its new limit, but i can personally confirm that it reads 4gb just fine.

Anything else i could add to it would just be opinion, everyone else has pretty much covered it

[Barnaby]

Video cards are going to be irrelevant in video editing, unless she uses a program that specifically takes advantage of it. Playback is a different beast, as that is what most desktop video cards are hardware accelerating.


Now before we get into an ePenis fight here over who makes the l33t bits for puters, nowadays its ALL about budgets for the most part. All the different hardware is SO close in performance nowadays, unless you were running benchmarks all damn day, you'll never know the difference.

ATI makes VERY good video cards, and are not to be discounted if you weren't going to use a built in one. In fact, ATI is leading in perfomance for alot of the benches out there, at a much lower price point than nVidia. Their driver support has stepped up alot in recent years, and there are no worries when running an ATI video card. Same goes for their chipsets.

Its really all about budget right now. Were the money needs to go in a video editing box is CPU, RAM, and HDD. and of course good video editing software that is multi-threaded, and can take advantage of multiple cpu cores, and maybe even be accelerated by the GPU.

Whether you run Intel, AMD, Ati, nVidia, etc, nowadays unless you buy a complete crap manufacturer, you will not be disappointed.

[Barnaby]

delsol ur correct on the ram thing!

if ur gonna do vista 64bit ultimate is the way to go... but pricey... pm me for an alternative

and its no problem

Actually Vista 32bit OS does support more RAM now. I don't know its new limit, but i can personally confirm that it reads 4gb just fine.

Anything else i could add to it would just be opinion, everyone else has pretty much covered it

The problem with any 32 bit OS, is that even though the OS can "see" the 4Gb, it still is only going to allocate you a 2gb memory page for application usage at a time. This VERY much sucks if you are editing something that is larger than this, which is very easy to do in video editing. Vista can use a 3Gb page allocation if you edit the boot.ini, but this is a software hack, and isn't nearly as good as running a 64bit OS. The price difference between 32bit and 64bit versions of vista are none, so why bother? You can chose whichever flavor you want, its the same price within the different option tiers.

[bungiman]

Video cards are going to be irrelevant in video editing, unless she uses a program that specifically takes advantage of it.

Which is what I suggested.

I agree budget is important. But if you are looking for the best system money can buy. You invest in a Quaddro card that allows Adobe Premiere to take advantage of the GPU.

If you work with a budget then you make trade-offs, until then don't sacrifice. IMHO.

Vampy, is there a price limit? Edited August 1, 2009 by bungiman

[Vampy6997]

Honestly, I'd like it to just be the computer in all its glory (if I wanted to spend 5k, I'd log onto alienware and have one customized)...if there's good ROI (ie-if I make 3x the computer's worth and see anything bothersome with the setup of the computer) then I'll put a bit more into the computer and make it faster, but the list I've come up with seems most reasonable. Trying to figure out a reason to spend 800 bucks on a video editing software, which makes little sense since the videos don't need to be perfection. I saw some video editing software that's only 50-120 or so and that just depends on what's needed to be done.

Basically just needing a platform to make minor edits and upload videos to a website. Nothing professional needed. I do know my current computer would die if I tried to do anything like that on it, not to mention waste valuable real-time work.

I do need to be able to deal with HD videos, but other than that, just a matter of speed being appropriate, etc. I think the bigger thing is all parts being compatible to one another and not crashing due to the parts not being compatible.

I'm at a limit right now of 1500, until there's ROI. Not that I have the money already, I'm just not interested in spending more than that for a computer I'm building without knowing the ROI beforehand (lol).

Depending on the way things go, I'll start getting the parts in about a month or so and go from there.

I hope this clarifies at least a little

[*sigh*]

1) Options for cpu processor (is is ok to sacrifice on this or no?):
-Intel Quad QX9650 ($500)
-Intel Quad Core Extreme ($400)
-Intel Core 2 Duo E4700 ($105--includes heatsink fan)
-Intel Quad Core Extreme QX6850 ($349)
Definitely get a quad, however you can get a better quad, well one that will fit your needs better for cheaper. I still suggest going i7 and picking up a Core i7 920

2) Case:
-Antec 900 ($50-150)...I'm pretty set in stone on this
All personal preference it's a solid case, I'm a lian li guy myself but Antec makes good products.

3) Graphics/Video:
-nVidia 9400 ($eh?)
-nVidia 9500 ($74)
Either will be able to handle HD video playback, however for that price you can get a substantially better card, which will just be able to handle playback a bit better.

4) RAM (or any mem module that fits 240 pin)
-4GB 1066 Mhz DDR2/DDR3...blah blah blah possibly x 2 ($100)
Once again, kind of expensive, and if you went i7 you need DDR3, but for ddr2 anything will work.

5) DVD
-24x Dual Layer SATA DVD +/-RW Internal ($30)
It's fine

6) Hard Drive!
-Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ($80)
7200.11 are a few generations old now, so you will be lacking on speed, that and not sure what capacity, for around $80 you should be getting about a 1TB drive.

7) Operating Sys.
-Going with Windows XP Home OEM ($60)
Windows 7 hands down, XP is a great OS, still running it right now, however it's old.

8) Soundcard (just need sound here, nothing superb/fantastic/pimping the pony)
-Creative Labs 7.1 Soundblaster...($9.00)
If you want a sound card get a good sound card, if not, most onboard will be just as good. Yes it uses your CPU instead of a chip on a sound card, however this is all most cheap sound cards do as well.

9) Motherboard
-P45 for Core 2 Quad, etc...($80)
P45 is good, get a good brand though, don't cheap. If you do go i7 though, you will need an x58 board.

10) CPU heatsink + fan blah blah
-Asus V60 ($50-80)
Not needed, overpriced, but if your CPU will be under a large load often, it would be worth getting.

11) Monitor, keyboard, mouse, speaker(s) (don't care what/who/how)
-($45)
I like samsung monitors, a nice high res would be beneficial for editing, but get a good solid quality monitor, I really like my samsuns 2343BWX, 23" widescreens 2048x1152 and good quality, but there are a lot of spectacular monitors out there. Keyboard and mouse all personal preference, speakers same thing, although if you will be tweaking audio don't go super cheap as you want to get a realistic idea of what it iwll sound like.

12) Power Supp
-MicroX 500-680 Watt Dual ATX fan (fan?!) PS ($35)->(is this the entire computer's PS?). *confused*
Never cheap on a PSU, get a good solid power supply from a solid reputable company. With a lower end GPU and any of the quads a 500-550w is plenty, unless you are going to run a lot of extra drives and whatnot. Antec, enermax, pc power and cooling, ocz, seasonic, silverstone, corsair are some of the better PSU brands.

13) Antivirus
-Clueless, anything better than McAfee. I hate McAfee.
I usually run AVG and Avast, and some firefox add ons if I really get paranoid, but also go a lot of time without. Your brain is the best AV.

14) Cables needed?
-I get that I need a SATA cable...
All included with retail boards.

15) Controllers?
-is a SATA controller typically coming standard with a SATA cable?
Built in to any modern motherboard. Only time it's worth investing more is if you were going to run a good raid array.

16) Good video editing program
A lot of personal preference, Adobe products are generally considered some of the best, but are awfully expensive.

[Barnaby]

I doubt the need for quad core is there truthfully. She'll be lucky if a "consumer grade" video editing program uses dual core, let alone quad core. Quad care processors typically sacrifice raw speed, to maintain their thermal envelope. 2 cores that are clocked faster will be much more useful, than 4 slower quads, that will not be utilized.

Again, the big thing to check is to find what video editing software you are going to use, and see what types of hardware it can take advantage of. Gotta love marketing.. They've been pushing quad cores at us for a bit now on the consumer end, and you never use them. 90% of the software out there is still single threaded on the consumer space.

If the video editing software is not threaded in a way to use all 4 cores, then unless you go through and have a ton of crap running, with affinity set on a couple different programs, those 4 cores are not going to be used to their full potential.

All the multicore stuff reminds me of when I was doing tech support back in the day, and some guy called up for something. He was one of those know it all guys, who calls up, and when you tell him he needed to speak to his sys admin, he'd go, I am the sys admin! I remember him bragging about his workstation, and saying how he had a dual processor rig, and how fast it was because of it... Too bad he was running Windows 95, which NEVER took advantage of it.. Edited August 1, 2009 by Barnaby

[*sigh*]

That is true, however most decent video editing programs can at least utilize 2 cores.

Now while this may seem like an argument for a dual core it's not. The great thing about a quad when doing super intensive stuff (even if the program can utilize 2 cores) is it allows the program to be the only thing using those 2 cores. You are able to allocate the other cores and set affinity to where you essentially have a dual core rendering and another dual core doing whatever else you need to.

That and in a year or two time more programs will be able to better utilize multiple cores.

[newjacksm]

get something cheaper then a Intel but at the same time gives the same performance AMD Phenom 2 B.E 955 Edited August 2, 2009 by newjacksm

[Barnaby]

That is true, however most decent video editing programs can at least utilize 2 cores.

Now while this may seem like an argument for a dual core it's not. The great thing about a quad when doing super intensive stuff (even if the program can utilize 2 cores) is it allows the program to be the only thing using those 2 cores. You are able to allocate the other cores and set affinity to where you essentially have a dual core rendering and another dual core doing whatever else you need to.

That and in a year or two time more programs will be able to better utilize multiple cores.

Of course, I was just point the situation out, so the OP can make an educated decision since there are budget constraints to worry about.

[*sigh*]

Of course, I was just point the situation out, so the OP can make an educated decision since there are budget constraints to worry about.

True, but it's a pretty large budget, you can get a solid quad for well under it.

She could get a solid i7 920 build for about $1000 (depending on what other components she chooses) that will handle everything great.

[Ramenamen]

You can easily make an awesome i7 build for under 1500. Socket 775 is on it's last days, so to future proof you really should go i7.

[entrailsgalore]

1) Options for cpu processor (is is ok to sacrifice on this or no?):
-Intel Quad QX9650 ($500)
-Intel Quad Core Extreme ($400)
-Intel Core 2 Duo E4700 ($105--includes heatsink fan)
-Intel Quad Core Extreme QX6850 ($349)
[u]All these are fine choices but You may also consider the new AMD Phenom II's, they bench about the same if not better than the core 2 Extreme's and are about half the price. Plus they OC better. But any of these will video edit just about the same, it will be encoding that makes or breaks the CPU. The lower end ones will take probably twice as long as the higher end ones. Luckily most C2D/C2E encode well. Spend what your budget allows, but if your budget allows shoot for at least the QX6850.
[/u]
2) Case:
-Antec 900 ($50-150)...I'm pretty set in stone on this
Great case, awesome airflow.

3) Graphics/Video:
-nVidia 9400 ($eh?)
-nVidia 9500 ($74)
Hmm both are lower end, probably wouldn't affect video editing too much as long as it supports all formats and codecs you will use, such as HD, etc.

4) RAM (or any mem module that fits 240 pin)
-4GB 1066 Mhz DDR2/DDR3...blah blah blah possibly x 2 ($100)
Yeah you will want 8GB. I don't think speed will affect your encoding/decoding too much so you could settle for DD2 to save money.

5) DVD
-24x Dual Layer SATA DVD +/-RW Internal ($30)
Optical drives rarely affect anything other than playback/installation and burning. That drive will work fine, I always by the cheapest unless it is BlueRay or something like than, then quality might matter.

6) Hard Drive!
-Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ($80)
I assume you will be storing all projects on an external drive yes? If so this drive is fine. I am guessing it is at least 160GB. I would recommend 2 internal drives, 1 for your OS ( can be 80GB) and one for all your programs and everything else ( will want this one at least 160GB or more). If your OS crashes or something happens to Windows (which it will lol) it is a lot easier to wipe a drive when it only has an OS and to reload it.

7) Operating Sys.
-Going with Windows XP Home OEM ($60)
This works fine, however I am loving Windows 7 and have a hard time recommending anything else now. But for that price and what you will do Windows XP Home will work fine. Make sure whatever software you are going to use to edit works with windows xp home (which is probably does).

8) Soundcard (just need sound here, nothing superb/fantastic/pimping the pony)
-Creative Labs 7.1 Soundblaster...($9.00)
This card works (Creative rocks) but your motherboard is going to have haflway decent sound already built in. Especially if you choose an Intel board you'll have the new Intel HD Audio which is 8 channel 24-bit now I believe. You can save your self 9 bucks.

9) Motherboard
-P45 for Core 2 Quad, etc...($80)
If you go Intel this board will work fine.

10) CPU heatsink + fan blah blah
-Asus V60 ($50-80)
Good heatsink, I think there are better ones out now in that price range. But anything other than the stock heatsink should be better.

11) Monitor, keyboard, mouse, speaker(s) (don't care what/who/how)
-($45)
Well most editing stations run dual monitors. Size doesn't matter too much as long as it is big enough to view what you are editing. I run dual 22' wide's but that is just me. Single monitor setup will work fine also, so just get what you can afford.
12) Power Supp
-MicroX 500-680 Watt Dual ATX fan (fan?!) PS ($35)->(is this the entire computer's PS?). *confused*
This is the Power Supply and it probably just has two fans inside to cool it. Some only have one fan, or some have none. You will want to shoot for at least 600W, but if you can get closer to 700W.

13) Antivirus
Well There are a lot of good ones out there, personally I use AVG Free 8.5. Kaspearsky is also good and NOD 32 as well.

14) Cables needed?
Enough SATA cablea and make sure whatever PSU you get has enough SATA connectors.

15) Controllers?
You only need SATA controllers if you are mixxing SATA and IDE or you are running SATA drives on older IDE mobos. All mobos now have more than enough SATA ports and should be SATA and SATA V2 compatible. Unless you plan on running a RAID setup you won't need any kind of controller most likely.

16) Good video editing program

Hmm I have been using Adobe Premiere up until recently. My dad loves Sony Vegas. I haven't looked up what is good now. But Windows Movie maker BLOOOWS. Haha I think that is obvious but yeah. I like Adobe Premiere I would suggest looking up the latest version of it.


Like I said above, anytime you deal with editing projects, sound, video, photo, etc. You want to save EVERYTHING you do on an external hard drive. Your PC hard drive WILL die and Windows will crash via BSOD, virus, etc. You don't want to be the person that always says " Oh my data will be fine.." then the next day your PC won't boot or your hard drive starts clicking and everything is gone. In the Studio my band records at, we run Pro Tools and ANYTIME something is changed/edited/reverted/etc it is saved onto an external drive. All work we do goes to an external. And then at the end of the day all that work is backed up to another drive. Of course I don't think you will need to go to that extreme haha but seriously. Get an external drive. They are 80 bucks for 500GB.

[woknblues]

I didn't read all of the responses, so forgive me if I am repeating..

Based upon what you are saying you are using this for, I might be tempted to do the following:

Great case
Great power supply
"Great optical drive" (they are all pretty much the same)
Nice big HDD (do a WD green, since you dont game, no need for 10k)
Nice KVM
Middle of the road GPU $100-$125

Then for the guts, I would argue that a "budget" build of a

wolfadale dual core http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16819116072
Cheap MB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813128357
4GIG DDR2 any 50-60 4 gig kit

those three items are only about $160....

You could then get a few years out of that until you want an upgrade and get in on what is coming out in the next couple of months, for cheap as well. As long as you don't need to play crysis on max, etc.,

[*sigh*]

I didn't read all of the responses, so forgive me if I am repeating..

Based upon what you are saying you are using this for, I might be tempted to do the following:

Great case
Great power supply
"Great optical drive" (they are all pretty much the same)
Nice big HDD (do a WD green, since you dont game, no need for 10k)
Nice KVM
Middle of the road GPU $100-$125

Then for the guts, I would argue that a "budget" build of a

wolfadale dual core http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16819116072
Cheap MB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813128357
4GIG DDR2 any 50-60 4 gig kit

those three items are only about $160....

You could then get a few years out of that until you want an upgrade and get in on what is coming out in the next couple of months, for cheap as well. As long as you don't need to play crysis on max, etc.,

She has a $1000 or so budget. Why hold back that much.

Oh and DO NOT get a WD green. WD Green are the energy efficient line of harddrives, aka they are slow. The Caviar Black are the way to go. Still 7200rpm and about the same price, but considerably faster.

[woknblues]

I didn't read all of the responses, so forgive me if I am repeating..

Based upon what you are saying you are using this for, I might be tempted to do the following:

Great case
Great power supply
"Great optical drive" (they are all pretty much the same)
Nice big HDD (do a WD green, since you dont game, no need for 10k)
Nice KVM
Middle of the road GPU $100-$125

Then for the guts, I would argue that a "budget" build of a

wolfadale dual core http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16819116072
Cheap MB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813128357
4GIG DDR2 any 50-60 4 gig kit

those three items are only about $160....

You could then get a few years out of that until you want an upgrade and get in on what is coming out in the next couple of months, for cheap as well. As long as you don't need to play crysis on max, etc.,

She has a $1000 or so budget. Why hold back that much.

Oh and DO NOT get a WD green. WD Green are the energy efficient line of harddrives, aka they are slow. The Caviar Black are the way to go. Still 7200rpm and about the same price, but considerably faster.

My point to hold back is one of simple reason. Why pay more for what you will not need? A jacked up wolfdale dual core will do anything she is describing with blinding speed. And for years to come. In a couple more years, throw in another couple hundred and upgrade again. Stay strong with a strong system. Real world difference will be negligible.

I stand by my green drive recommendation. They are very quiet, low power consumption, are inexpensive, and perfectly adequate for video editing. 1TB is flirting with $60.00 these days.


Just my opinion.

[*sigh*]

My point to hold back is one of simple reason. Why pay more for what you will not need? A jacked up wolfdale dual core will do anything she is describing with blinding speed. And for years to come. In a couple more years, throw in another couple hundred and upgrade again. Stay strong with a strong system. Real world difference will be negligible.

I stand by my green drive recommendation. They are very quiet, low power consumption, are inexpensive, and perfectly adequate for video editing. 1TB is flirting with $60.00 these days.


Just my opinion.

Black's are almost the same price as Green's. Yes they will be a little more noisy and use a bit more power, however, when dealing with large video files, the speed gain is definitely worth it.

I also understand not spending more than you need to, but an e5200 is not a "jacked up wolfdale". It is a low end dual core chip meant for budget builds. At the very least an E8*** would be worth the money, and a quad core (especially one as fast as an i7 920) would be much more future proof. Edited August 13, 2009 by *sigh*