Are Repubs Really Against Government Run Healthcare?

[Rani]

Because if it gets goverment regulated all private practices are gone, which a lot of people rely on. Plus some people don't need the amount of health care that would be required and no one would be able to chose the kind of heathlcare that fits them both financially and logically.

None of what you're saying here is a certainty and not even in my opinion a probability. Health care reform is a work in progress, like every other bill going through our legislature. It's eventual final product is probabily going to bear almost no resemblance to all the rumors surround what it will and won't be. What's more the White House issued a statement saying increased taxes on the middle class to pay for it is not going to happen - period. So you're objecting to something that needs to change, without any reason to presume it's going to get worse, and without having to pay for it assuming you have a personal income of less than $250k per year. Explain to me how this is logical. I'm not being sarcastic, I'd really like to know.

'Rani

[Scalliwag]

the way things have trended it is possible that healthcare/insurance costs with cost 45% of average peoples income within the next 10 years..... and people are worried about taxes. Of course that's a legitimate concern but I really question a lot of peoples common sense on some of this shit. That 45% going towards healthcare/insurance needs to be looked at with the same disdain.
Especially the people that never raised any hell over how much Iraq costs us. It's really hard to take them serious when they bitch about wasteful spending.

[chinodos]

Because if it gets goverment regulated all private practices are gone, which a lot of people rely on. Plus some people don't need the amount of health care that would be required and no one would be able to chose the kind of heathlcare that fits them both financially and logically.

FSU I feel that your statement here has no grounds. United Kingdom has government regulated healthcare and there are still practices all around. Its not like the clinics and hospitals are going to up and move just because we got a national healthcare system, they would stay in the same places and work through the government. I am not too sure of this, but I thought there was a plan (for when we finally do get national healthcare) to have different plans for different financial systems. If I am wrong and this hasn't been brought up then it is something that would be lacking from this idea, but that could be quickly remedied by contacting your congressman/woman.

[Barnaby]

Man, I can only count myself DAMN lucky that right now atleast, I have very affordable, excellent health insurance. I sit back and listen to other people's stories about them having to deal with shitty insurance, and mounting doctors bills, and am simply saddened. NO ONE should be denied healthcare, plain and simple. Its hard to have unalienable right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, if you are up to your eyeballs in debt, over healthcare. When you simply cannot get treatment and have a lower quality of life, because you can't afford it.

The healthcare system now will never be able to meet current needs, because it is too busy trying to make money. FUCK THOSE GREEDY ASSHOLES

[Barnaby]

damn, took to long to edit.. here's the rest


FUCK THOSE GREEDY ASSHOLES! Why defend a system that simply does not work. People against socialist medicine always say, you want to wait in line for treatment? Better to wait in line, then not be able to afford it in the first place, don't you think?

Almost all EU countries run a socialist healthcare. It works. Why is this a concern? Why defend a bunch of asshole that decide if they're going to cover your medical procedures? The most fucked up thing in Sicko, was the story of one guy who got 2 fingers cut off. Because he had a shitty HMO, they said they could only cover 1 reattchment of his finger, as I believe it was the ring and pinky that got chopped off.. The pinky is not deemed necessary, so they told him to chose which one they'll cover, and he'd have to pay for the other one. He only got 1 reattached, because he couldn't afford it.. That is wrong on so many levels, I can't even begin to think of all the shit I'd do to the person that made that choice at the HMO.. Edited August 6, 2009 by Barnaby

[Haz]

I'm a medical student from the UK and I just wanted to give you guys an outsider's perspective. For starters, most of us are shocked at the US system. If the end point is profit then companies will cut corners and patients will suffer.

Over here everybody gets treated and its based on need. The people who need to be seen first are seen first. Its not perfect but its the best system. Many doctors also have private practices alongside their normal NHS (national health service) jobs.

Your govt could provide free health if they really wanted to.

[gaia.plateau]

I don't think it will work for you guys.

[Charley]

I think all the bitching and whining is being done by ppl who have no clue what the hell there bitching about. I say shut the hell up on it unless you actually know what is going on.
I myself haven't been able to even find any info on what they want to do and until i see some hard facts on it and not just a pundents opinion of something a guy in the restroom of a steak and shake told them about how there going to termenate anyone over 65 im going to sit back and hold my judgement.

I am all for ppl getting into politics I dont just believe it is our right I believe it is our duity but anyone who gets into it blind is just an idiot. speak when you have something to say but only do so when you know what your talking about.

none of my post is directed to anyone here. I was just watching some idiot on tv a minute ago talking about how the gov is going to kill anyone over 65. it just kind of erked me a bit that ppl can be that stupid and talk about things they have no clue about.

[chinodos]

damn, took to long to edit.. here's the rest


FUCK THOSE GREEDY ASSHOLES! Why defend a system that simply does not work. People against socialist medicine always say, you want to wait in line for treatment? Better to wait in line, then not be able to afford it in the first place, don't you think?

Almost all EU countries run a socialist healthcare. It works. Why is this a concern? Why defend a bunch of asshole that decide if they're going to cover your medical procedures? The most fucked up thing in Sicko, was the story of one guy who got 2 fingers cut off. Because he had a shitty HMO, they said they could only cover 1 reattchment of his finger, as I believe it was the ring and pinky that got chopped off.. The pinky is not deemed necessary, so they told him to chose which one they'll cover, and he'd have to pay for the other one. He only got 1 reattached, because he couldn't afford it.. That is wrong on so many levels, I can't even begin to think of all the shit I'd do to the person that made that choice at the HMO..

Yeah and Michael Moore later on in the movie brought up that guys case with a doctor from france or england (I forget now) And that doctor was all like we would have done it without even worrying about cost, or something like that. Anyone able to fill in the gaps here? been a while since I've seen that movie.

[Barnaby]

damn, took to long to edit.. here's the rest


FUCK THOSE GREEDY ASSHOLES! Why defend a system that simply does not work. People against socialist medicine always say, you want to wait in line for treatment? Better to wait in line, then not be able to afford it in the first place, don't you think?

Almost all EU countries run a socialist healthcare. It works. Why is this a concern? Why defend a bunch of asshole that decide if they're going to cover your medical procedures? The most fucked up thing in Sicko, was the story of one guy who got 2 fingers cut off. Because he had a shitty HMO, they said they could only cover 1 reattchment of his finger, as I believe it was the ring and pinky that got chopped off.. The pinky is not deemed necessary, so they told him to chose which one they'll cover, and he'd have to pay for the other one. He only got 1 reattached, because he couldn't afford it.. That is wrong on so many levels, I can't even begin to think of all the shit I'd do to the person that made that choice at the HMO..

Yeah and Michael Moore later on in the movie brought up that guys case with a doctor from france or england (I forget now) And that doctor was all like we would have done it without even worrying about cost, or something like that. Anyone able to fill in the gaps here? been a while since I've seen that movie.

Been a bit for me too, can't remember that part.

At the end of the day though, as soon as anyone mentions socialist anything, they think we're turning communist. There are many aspects of socialism and communism that are great, if they can be properly implemented. That just isn't the case when you factor in greed.

[chinodos]

Been a bit for me too, can't remember that part.

At the end of the day though, as soon as anyone mentions socialist anything, they think we're turning communist. There are many aspects of socialism and communism that are great, if they can be properly implemented. That just isn't the case when you factor in greed.

I think any country that sticks to one type of government i.e socalism, communism, or democracy its hard to survive. I think we need to stop focusing on what type of government we are and just start picking and choosing what we need from all of them.

[jezter6]

Personally, I'm all for national healthcare if it's for EVERYONE.

However, thus far - all I see are talks covering some of the 40 million uninsured. SOME of less than 15% of the population. If everyone qualified and everyone got it the same way, I'd be quite happy. However the system that I've seen thus far only seems to support a limited few.

I'm all for government programs - as long as Everyone gets their fair shot at it. I'm tired of being "overqualified" to get government services because I got a raise, when I need services as much as the guy who makes just $100 a month less than I and the guy who makes $500 a month less than I do.

However, as soon as everyone qualifies, it'll end up costing 200 times more than what is already proposed and we don't have enough money for it.

[Svaals]

However, as soon as everyone qualifies, it'll end up costing 200 times more than what is already proposed and we don't have enough money for it.

The point of this plan is that everyone will qualify, even for private insurances. Not allowing insurers to turn anyone away is essential to the success of a public option. Otherwise you would have private insurance dumping the sick on the public policy, driving up costs.

I think the major difference between the right-wing propagandists and the rest of the country, is that the ring wingers really don't see the whole picture of health care. They think a public Option is anti-competitive, and will hurt the health insurance industry (Yes, they're hurting so much that they are making a higher profit margin than ever before.) Yes, Rush Limbaugh is a logic powerhouse

[Haz]

Going public means you can lose a lot of profit. For example if there is a problem that can be cured with two options, doctors in America chose the more expensive one as they will get paid more whereas in the UK the most cost efficient option is used. From personal reading I've found out that there are more unnecessary surgeries in in America than in the UK.

[twoapplesplease]

Umm I've been without health ins. for 15 years and would love to be able to afford it but the fact is I'm just to poor.
Personally I think only the most hartless gready bastards would turn the sick,weak,and dyeing peoples into some sort of profitable bussiness.If you look at it for what it is there really is no question about it.

[Scalliwag]

If any of you have not seen the movie "The Yes Men" you really need to see it. These guys pulled off some serious shit and exposed just how evil the bad side of capitalism can be, i.e.- there is NOTHING the corporations won't do for a buck even when told it can cost lives. They shrug that thought off like it is nothing.
That movie solidified my belief that capitalism without regulation will eventually be our demise. That and not including the death penalty as an option for the worst of the corporate criminals. Edited August 11, 2009 by Scalliwag

[Stuie]

My 2 cents.

My wife is on Medicare (not Medicaid) because she is legally blind. After all the prenatal stuff and the birth of our girl.... all the paperwork, all the arguing, and all the crap they refused to pay for that was essential for the birth.

FUCK GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE! and fuck the $15,000 Bill I am stuck with!

All the stuff going on with my little girl, 90% covered, out of pocket expenses with upcoming Cooks visit. $200. on Private Insurance.

[Stuie]

My 2 cents.

My wife is on Medicare (not Medicaid) because she is legally blind. After all the prenatal stuff and the birth of our girl.... all the paperwork, all the arguing, and all the crap they refused to pay for that was essential for the birth.

FUCK GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE! and fuck the $15,000 Bill I am stuck with!

All the stuff going on with my little girl, 90% covered, out of pocket expenses with upcoming Cooks visit. $200. on Private Insurance.

When I compare the two, no question what I would pick.

Things need to change but the government can't run shit, so no fucking way. Let's talk about it when the government is running a surplus instead of deficit before they run anything else.

Sorry for the language.

[Svaals]

Yeah, Stuie, stories like yours are the reason why private health care will still be around, even after reform. I would absolutely oppose a system where everyone was required to get government health care. Part of the problem, though, with Medicare is that usually the people on the program either have serious pre-existing conditions or are elderly. That's why Medicare costs taxpayers so much money. It's not really government run insurance as much as it is just a subsidy for health care costs.

I support a public option that runs deficit neutral. As in, you pay premiums and those premium dollars pay for claims, but with a no-profit margin. Private insurance is turbo-profit. Many people think that insurance premiums are rising at the rate they are solely because of the increase in health care costs. But really, the insurance companies are making more money than ever by denying more people care then ever. Over the last decade, insurance companies went from spending 95% of every premium dollar on claims to 85% of every dollar. The trend is that number will continue to drop, and insurance will get more profitable at the expense of the sick, because that is what CEOs and investors want.

I've had 2-3 different insurance companies in my lifetime through my Mom's job (she's a state employee). Each time we changed insurance, it's because our insurer got bought out or underbid. Through each consolidation, our care got worse, and more expensive. Now there are only one or two insurers in the entire state. If insurance companies weren't lining the pockets of regulative agencies, they'd probably be under investigation for anti-trust violations.

Your experience with Medicare definitely sucked, but similar stories happen all the time with private insurance.

[Sordino]

The way I see this, is that governmental health care simply will not work in America. Why? We are a free enterprise country, why would anyone be in school/training for 10+ years to be a doctor when they are going to make shitty pay? The reason it is enticing to study for that long is the massive reward at the end of the road, if they really think that all of the doctors and nurses are going to be okay with taking massive paycuts when this system comes into effect they have another thing coming. Rich people do not like people messing with their money, especially people who have developed a life style around it. And you know that there is no way that the government is going to be able to pay doctors the insane wages they require, hell some neurosurgeons make multiple millions of dollars a year. And shouldn't they? They saw into your skull and work with the brain, which we don't even understand how it works, and are able to save your life and the lives of others on a daily basis.

My view of this is that the government can't even run the post office or DMV as has been mentioned already so they most certainly are not going to be able to run a massive health care system not to mention the giant clusterfuck that will result as this system if changing over.

[Svaals]

The way I see this, is that governmental health care simply will not work in America. Why? We are a free enterprise country, why would anyone be in school/training for 10+ years to be a doctor when they are going to make shitty pay? The reason it is enticing to study for that long is the massive reward at the end of the road, if they really think that all of the doctors and nurses are going to be okay with taking massive paycuts when this system comes into effect they have another thing coming. Rich people do not like people messing with their money, especially people who have developed a life style around it. And you know that there is no way that the government is going to be able to pay doctors the insane wages they require, hell some neurosurgeons make multiple millions of dollars a year. And shouldn't they? They saw into your skull and work with the brain, which we don't even understand how it works, and are able to save your life and the lives of others on a daily basis.

My view of this is that the government can't even run the post office or DMV as has been mentioned already so they most certainly are not going to be able to run a massive health care system not to mention the giant clusterfuck that will result as this system if changing over.

I agree that government ran health care would not work. What is being proposed by the President is government run insurance. And really, doctors make a relatively large amount of money, but they are by no means rich. They pay outrageous amounts in malpractice insurance. I think most doctors become doctors because they have a passion for the work. If money was the only motivating factor, they'd probably all be MBAs, working for some insurance company

[Stuie]

Here's another thought

http://www.smartbreastaugmentation.com/costs.html

Average price for Breast Implants is $5K-10K. Now why is breast implants so cheap compared to the delivery of a baby? Plastic Surgeons don't take insurance. This requires them to be competitive, in regards to being the BEST AT WHAT THEY DO and Giving the Best Bang for your Buck.

So what do you think if there was no insurance and we all went to cash for care?

[clibinarius]

Here's another thought

http://www.smartbreastaugmentation.com/costs.html

Average price for Breast Implants is $5K-10K. Now why is breast implants so cheap compared to the delivery of a baby? Plastic Surgeons don't take insurance. This requires them to be competitive, in regards to being the BEST AT WHAT THEY DO and Giving the Best Bang for your Buck.

So what do you think if there was no insurance and we all went to cash for care?

First, plastic surgeons do take insurance, but insurance seldom covers plastic surgeries (some are very medically useful, however).

Second, as breast implants aren't required, they have to charge a market price. If I get sick, I need drugs to not die. And you can charge me whatever you want, which is not at the point where its profitable, but where you can make the most money (supply v. demand). There's enough oil out there to cost much, much less than it does now. Why does it cost so much? Futures traders KNOW we MUST buy the oil, which is easily stored, so they charge as much as they can since we have no alternative. And you say we should trade healthcare like a commodity? My god, have you filled up your gas tank the last 10 years? If people don't get oil, they might not be happy. Now imagine if not being able to afford it kills them.

Are the lives of the poor not worth saving because of maximizing profits, be it for the government or for a private company or a doctor? Does customer care really not matter? We're not talking about plastic surgery to feel better, we're talking about matters of life and death here-it doesn't matter if its a free or government market. Letting people die because you can get more money out of the system by raising prices is WRONG. Period.

[Stuie]

Here's another thought

http://www.smartbreastaugmentation.com/costs.html

Average price for Breast Implants is $5K-10K. Now why is breast implants so cheap compared to the delivery of a baby? Plastic Surgeons don't take insurance. This requires them to be competitive, in regards to being the BEST AT WHAT THEY DO and Giving the Best Bang for your Buck.

So what do you think if there was no insurance and we all went to cash for care?

First, plastic surgeons do take insurance, but insurance seldom covers plastic surgeries (some are very medically useful, however).

Second, as breast implants aren't required, they have to charge a market price. If I get sick, I need drugs to not die. And you can charge me whatever you want, which is not at the point where its profitable, but where you can make the most money (supply v. demand). There's enough oil out there to cost much, much less than it does now. Why does it cost so much? Futures traders KNOW we MUST buy the oil, which is easily stored, so they charge as much as they can since we have no alternative. And you say we should trade healthcare like a commodity? My god, have you filled up your gas tank the last 10 years? If people don't get oil, they might not be happy. Now imagine if not being able to afford it kills them.

Are the lives of the poor not worth saving because of maximizing profits, be it for the government or for a private company or a doctor? Does customer care really not matter? We're not talking about plastic surgery to feel better, we're talking about matters of life and death here-it doesn't matter if its a free or government market. Letting people die because you can get more money out of the system by raising prices is WRONG. Period.

Okay hold the freaking phone!

I was hypothetically saying let's say if we cut insurance out of the equation and just cash to pay for health care. Not make it a commodity. Don't be rediculous.

Oh yes let's cleanse the world of the poor, to make our lives better...wow never been accused of being that kind of a monster before.

Let's take a REAL LIFE example here:

My friend Clfiton and I literally go to the same doctor.

My CoPay :$35 Blue Cross Pays $100 for an office visit

My friend currently has no insurance and he pays $55 for an office visit.

Starting to see my point or are you drawing a pitchfork and horns on my avatar?

[Svaals]

There's a very real possibility that the office is taking a loss for your friend, and your insurance has to help pay the difference. The problem with cash paid health care is that a lot of people just won't have the cash. It's a lot like the problem we have now with the uninsured. Example:

Uninsured John Doe is suffering from abdominal pain. He is a healthy middle-aged man, and doesn't have the money for health care, or he lost his job and no longer has health insurance. Rather than going to the doctor, he dismisses the abdominal pain as the wrath of his last trip to Chipotle. The pain continues, but John does not want to pay to see a doctor. Eventually, he begins to lose color and his wife calls 911. He is admitted to surgery for a ruptured colon and a hospital charges him $70Gs he doesn't have for surgery, in-patient care, and a consultation with a dietitian.

Now, he may be able to settle with the hospital for right around 1/2 of what he owes, and will pay what he can in installments for the rest of his life while the hospital takes a huge loss. In order to make up for that loss and others like it, the hospital must overcharge patients with insurance plans, and must also cut nurse salaries, etc.

Everyone who sees a doctor, or goes to a hospital is paying not just for their own care, but for thousands of dollars racked up by the uninsured. If everyone has access to affordable health insurance, even gov't insurance, the cost of care should drop significantly.