A Question That Boggles The Mind

[NIGHTS OF BAGHDAD]

ive always wondered out of all the different brands of shisha why is it only tangiers needs acclimating? why cant it be made to be ready to go without having to baby it? i know the lucid doesnt need it..only a small few have need to acclimate the lucids..but im mainly talking of the regular line? i know the humidity keeps being brung up but why doesnt the humidity effect other brands like nakhla,al fakher,starbuzz?

[supersubby]

ive always wondered out of all the different brands of shisha why is it only tangiers needs acclimating? why cant it be made to be ready to go without having to baby it? i know the lucid doesnt need it..only a small few have need to acclimate the lucids..but im mainly talking of the regular line? i know the humidity keeps being brung up but why doesnt the humidity effect other brands like nakhla,al fakher,starbuzz?

iv noticed humidity effects coals and when i open my nakhla and others i jus leave it open for a bit. im not sure why it happend with og tangy but with lucid i also acclimate it cuz it usually smells funky when i first get it but an hour with some oxygen will do the trick

[mattarios2]

Well people have said it is because tang has a very low water content. But i think it is more than just that, because Nakhla also contains a very low amount of water and rarely needs acclimation.

But lucid is washed and that rarely needs acclimation so i am thinking it is from the nicotine.

If lucid is the exact same thing as OG except washed than that leads me to believe that the high amount of nicotine in tangiers is what causes it the need to acclimate.

Which i also find odd because i always got a bigger buzz from Nakhla than Tangiers (when i got a few bowls to acclimate for me i did experience the buzz/flavor/smoke/etc.) But now-a-days it doesn't matter b/c i just get a slight relaxed feeling, no big buzz anymore.

I guess nakhla has a happy medium of nicotine not causing the need of acclimation.

And sb, af, fusion, etc. have water in their tobacco so the tobacco is always acclimated in its own water.

[NIGHTS OF BAGHDAD]

interesting, i wish i could try regular tangiers but it just wont work for me in illinois..i was trying to acclimate for 2 weeks and never worked..had to throw 250g of it in the garbage ...maybe i can buy some reglat tangiers and send it to someone else to acclimate it for me and then mail it to me..lol

[supersubby]

interesting, i wish i could try regular tangiers but it just wont work for me in illinois..i was trying to acclimate for 2 weeks and never worked..had to throw 250g of it in the garbage ...maybe i can buy some reglat tangiers and send it to someone else to acclimate it for me and then mail it to me..lol

it works half of the time for me.. i agree nights Lucid is safer and just as tasty.

[mattarios2]

interesting, i wish i could try regular tangiers but it just wont work for me in illinois..i was trying to acclimate for 2 weeks and never worked..had to throw 250g of it in the garbage ...maybe i can buy some reglat tangiers and send it to someone else to acclimate it for me and then mail it to me..lol

That wouldn't work, the second you open it in Illinois it will hit your weather which is different weather then wherever you shipped it, so it will go into shock, then it will go back and forth with the weather in Illinois still leaving you with your problem.

I've tried to think of different ways because it won't acclimate for me here in MA, especially during the summer time.

Personally i think if there are enough people with the acclimation issue, eric should make a "partially cooked" tangiers which doesn't remove all of the water from the tobacco ... allowing us non acclimation people to be able to get it to acclimate easier.

That is if that is even possible.

[newjacksm]

I've mentioned something like that to Eric and he said the quality wouldn't be as good and you wouldn't get long lasting flavor. So we just have to work with it.

[mattarios2]

yeah i hear ya

[ilikemyusername]

yeah, i've noticed that tangiers is the only shisha i've ever smoked thats actually crunchy, suggesting the tobacco is DRY i can only imagine that the idea behind it is to allow the flavors and glycerine to soak into the leaf better than just being something sitting on top of the shisha, one day i'm going to try adding a bit of water to see if that helps.

[Sonthert]

Actually, all brands go through changes from humidity. You might not notice them or put them off to some other issue, but they do occur. FCBayern was just commenting on his problems with acclimation and Starbuzz somewhere around here...

Mattarios...I thought you were the guy saying Nakhla isn't supposed to be dry? What do you suppose is drying out in the boxes? Yep. Water. Its the only thing in hookah tobacco that would dry out to such an extent. Nakhla is likely to be lower in water than most brands, but it still has a lot more than Tangiers. I would guess its 30-35% water by weight, by its texture. Artificial coloring is water based, for instance, you can't put artificial color in something without water (unless its a fat dispersible Lake dye...that doesn't apply to hookah tobacco, though) I also think Nakhla's nicotine numbers are high on their package. i agree Tangiers has more nicotine. I think Nakhla has been reducing their nicotine content...just a suspicion...no proof of that. on my part. I think thats why there is a resurgence going on right now for Nakhla, its working better for people because they've removed more nicotine or use lower nicotine base tobacco. That would also explain why its "wetter" if they were washing nicotine out.

Making it more manageable? No problem...I can add dye and water too...cost you less money, too. The question is, how complex a flavor do you want? To get really complex flavors, you need to be low-water content. Its hard enough keeping some of these flavors from stringing out as it is. Also, how long do you want the flavor to last? More water will make your flavors last shorter amounts of time. Remove the nicotine, acclimation problems plummet. Its easy. If you want complex flavors, long lasting flavors, and nicotine together, I think you need to see that variability is an issue. There are more chemicals I could add to the tobacco to stabilize it more...I don't think people want that though. There's enough pointless chemicals in other brands.

I set out to make the best tasting unwashed, longest lasting stuff. I did that. It might seem to be a tad more unpredictable, but remove the nicotine and it gets a lot easier. You can still get fairly awesome, complex flavors with a lower nicotine, low water tobacco. I did that. Its called Lucid. Its not hard to make a brand like Nakhla or Al Fakher, I could do that quite easily, but it certainly reduces the excitement of life, reduces the pleasure and it wouldn't be Tangiers, it would be like everything else.

So, to answer your question, Nights, Its not a zipcode thing...its a lot more specific than that, for some reason. Check out http://www.hookahforum.com/?showtopic=31247 The new prescribed method is to open the tub for four hours and seal it up for a day. If you want to contact me for acclimating, feel free to. I don't think its that hard, honestly. Lots of people never have problems and they don't do anything special. Sometimes the extra something that people do to acclimate Tangiers actually makes the problem worse.

Subby, I have noticed humidity effects in charcoal, too. They absorb moisture from the air and dry out when it gets drier too. I thought about researching it, I got distracted though. I estimate with Tangiers, 50% of humidity effects could be from charcoal acclimation. For other, high water brands, perhaps 20%.

[NIGHTS OF BAGHDAD]

thanx for the reply..i have tryed lucid and love it..nothing beats horchata lucid..NOTHING!!!..lol i may give the regular stuff a try again and see how it goes..

[mattarios2]

Actually, all brands go through changes from humidity. You might not notice them or put them off to some other issue, but they do occur. FCBayern was just commenting on his problems with acclimation and Starbuzz somewhere around here...

Mattarios...I thought you were the guy saying Nakhla isn't supposed to be dry? What do you suppose is drying out in the boxes? Yep. Water. Its the only thing in hookah tobacco that would dry out to such an extent. Nakhla is likely to be lower in water than most brands, but it still has a lot more than Tangiers. I would guess its 30-35% water by weight, by its texture. Artificial coloring is water based, for instance, you can't put artificial color in something without water (unless its a fat dispersible Lake dye...that doesn't apply to hookah tobacco, though) I also think Nakhla's nicotine numbers are high on their package. i agree Tangiers has more nicotine. I think Nakhla has been reducing their nicotine content...just a suspicion...no proof of that. on my part. I think thats why there is a resurgence going on right now for Nakhla, its working better for people because they've removed more nicotine or use lower nicotine base tobacco. That would also explain why its "wetter" if they were washing nicotine out.

Making it more manageable? No problem...I can add dye and water too...cost you less money, too. The question is, how complex a flavor do you want? To get really complex flavors, you need to be low-water content. Its hard enough keeping some of these flavors from stringing out as it is. Also, how long do you want the flavor to last? More water will make your flavors last shorter amounts of time. Remove the nicotine, acclimation problems plummet. Its easy. If you want complex flavors, long lasting flavors, and nicotine together, I think you need to see that variability is an issue. There are more chemicals I could add to the tobacco to stabilize it more...I don't think people want that though. There's enough pointless chemicals in other brands.

I set out to make the best tasting unwashed, longest lasting stuff. I did that. It might seem to be a tad more unpredictable, but remove the nicotine and it gets a lot easier. You can still get fairly awesome, complex flavors with a lower nicotine, low water tobacco. I did that. Its called Lucid. Its not hard to make a brand like Nakhla or Al Fakher, I could do that quite easily, but it certainly reduces the excitement of life, reduces the pleasure and it wouldn't be Tangiers, it would be like everything else.

So, to answer your question, Nights, it doesn't need babying, don't smoke it if it isn't worth it. Its not a zipcode thing...its a lot more specific than that, for some reason. Check out http://www.hookahforum.com/?showtopic=31247 The new prescribed method is to open the tub for four hours and seal it up for a day. If you want to contact me for acclimating, feel free to. I don't think its that hard, honestly. Lots of people never have problems and they don't do anything special. Sometimes the extra something that people do to acclimate Tangiers actually makes the problem worse.

Subby, I have noticed humidity effects in charcoal, too. They absorb moisture from the air and dry out when it gets drier too. I thought about researching it, I got distracted though. I estimate with Tangiers, 50% of humidity effects could be from charcoal acclimation. For other, high water brands, perhaps 20%.

It isn't dry and it isn't wet either. but it is waaaaay more moist than it was in previous times. The boxes i have been getting have actually been very gooey. (I am able to squeeze the foil pouch and seranwrap around the tobacco and have juice ooze out, that never happened previously) I find there to be very very low amounts of water in nakhla ... through a basic test, i sat a tub of mizo (the juicy stuff) and OG (the drier stuff) right next to my dehumidifier for quite some time, neither the mizo or the og became any drier. If there was 30-35% water content in the nakhla wouldn't i notice it being more dry? I also tried this with some fusion I had, within a couple days the fusion was dry, very dry.

Is there an explanation for that?

I sometimes don't smoke certain nak flavors for months and months, up to about 6 months, i pop open the tub and it is just as moist or wet as it was the day i opened it.

The lucid is nice, definitely was a good response to people having acclimation issues (if that is why it was made .. ?) but i like to smoke partly for a relaxation tool. Lucid doesn't create a relaxed state for me. It tastes great but that is where it ends.

Getting back to OG Tangiers, I do understand your commitment to making a quality product, I was just saying it would be cool if you tried something a lil different with using a little more water or not taking out all of the water to see if it would be just enough to get us non acclimators smoking your tang. I don't care what anyone says, it isn't smokable (?) where i live, not one bit. And to me, if a product such as tobacco cannot be smoked anywhere, well then i find that to be quite a weakness in the product.

[mattarios2]

Thanks NOB

oh and another thing, i believe the reason why the nak tubs were dry, is because they were dry to begin with, I think they may have just changed the "liquids" they are putting in their tobacco, and my original belief of them drying out was off. I think we just started getting the newer "formulas" mixed with the older formulas and it made me think that sometimes i was getting "fresher" batches and sometimes i was getting "older" batches. But now every tub i get from the distributor (not vendors who could still have mixed old and new batches) is gooey. Not dry, not soaked, not sticky (like the old stuff) but gooey.

Also both east and west coast distributors i spoke with said they were getting "different" quality of nakhla as opposed to the past. I had commented on that and Eric, you said they may have been yanking my chain, which is quite possible, but both vendors saying the same thing? ehh i don't know about that.

[Arcane]

And to me, if a product such as tobacco cannot be smoked anywhere, well then i find that to be quite a weakness in the product.

matt, this was the point i was trying to make earlier...you put it together perfectly..

actually, i wouldn't consider it a weakness in the product. the product itself is the epitome of quality and doesn't make sacrifices. even if affects sales, it doesn't seem that Eric will compromise the name and quality of Tangiers to make a few extra dollars.

the only thing that the acclimation issues affect is "selling power".

[mattarios2]

I do, a product is produced to be used, consumed if you will.

If you physically can't consume it because of the way the product is produced or what is done during production, that is a weakness. (assuming the reason it cannot be consumed isn't user error, like improperly packing the bowl) You need to consider all angles and situations when creating a product to ensure it can be used anywhere. If your buyers want to consume your product, but they can't for whatever reason. That is a fault on the producers end. At least I think so.

So what I am saying is I personally think to decline quality slightly to make the product more usable and stable ... would actually be creating higher quality if that makes sense. But then again Tangiers may not be having massive amounts of issues with people having acclimation issues. But this forum sure makes me believe it is a legit issue.

And no hard feelings to you Eric, I know you won't take it in a bad way because I don't think badly of you at all, these are just my honest feelings.

[Sonthert]

Mattarios: I think there is still something very specific going on with people who have recurrent acclimation issues. I haven't hit a homerun and found it, yet. Its something thats not obvious. It might be cycling humidity levels. San Diego gets that, too sometimes, but I still don't have problems to the extent you are reporting. Hopefully the new acclimating procedure works well and you don't have to curse the name Tangiers in the dark. Thats interesting about the moisture level. Somebody was telling me about a new chemical you can add to hold moisture in products...It seems like water to me...I might just get some Nakhla and test this out. It is pretty humid, though, right now.

NOB: wouldn't it be great to buy the best Cuban cigars that didn't need to be put in a humidor? By the line of reasoning you guys are using...there must be something wrong with the product on a fundamental level then...I don't agree. Its a peculiarity or a quirk at best.

[ilikemyusername]

i still say its dry.....
adding water right.......now.

[NIGHTS OF BAGHDAD]

Mattarios: I think there is still something very specific going on with people who have recurrent acclimation issues. I haven't hit a homerun and found it, yet. Its something thats not obvious. It might be cycling humidity levels. San Diego gets that, too sometimes, but I still don't have problems to the extent you are reporting. Hopefully the new acclimating procedure works well and you don't have to curse the name Tangiers in the dark. Thats interesting about the moisture level. Somebody was telling me about a new chemical you can add to hold moisture in products...It seems like water to me...I might just get some Nakhla and test this out. It is pretty humid, though, right now.

NOB: wouldn't it be great to buy the best Cuban cigars that didn't need to be put in a humidor? By the line of reasoning you guys are using...there must be something wrong with the product on a fundamental level then...I don't agree. Its a peculiarity or a quirk at best.

oh god please dont remind me of cigars..lol i wasted about $800 on that stuff buying humidors, and humidity beads and cigars..and to be honest i found no enjoyment from them or relaxation

[mattarios2]

Mattarios: I think there is still something very specific going on with people who have recurrent acclimation issues. I haven't hit a homerun and found it, yet. Its something thats not obvious. It might be cycling humidity levels. San Diego gets that, too sometimes, but I still don't have problems to the extent you are reporting. Hopefully the new acclimating procedure works well and you don't have to curse the name Tangiers in the dark. Thats interesting about the moisture level. Somebody was telling me about a new chemical you can add to hold moisture in products...It seems like water to me...I might just get some Nakhla and test this out. It is pretty humid, though, right now.

NOB: wouldn't it be great to buy the best Cuban cigars that didn't need to be put in a humidor? By the line of reasoning you guys are using...there must be something wrong with the product on a fundamental level then...I don't agree. Its a peculiarity or a quirk at best.

haha i don't curse tang ... or do i ... Please get some mizo and some og and let us know your findings ... i mean either way imma smoke it till my heart is content cuz i love it but ... yeah it would be nice to know the down low on it.

Btw, you said how nak prob has less water in their tobacco than most companies but not tang ... do you think that they do this purposely for the reason to not have to acclimate? Or would you say the amount you found that they used was clearly an amount that shows it is put in there as a umm ... filler if you will.

Oh and one other thing ... i think there is the same amount of nicotine ... i just think because of the rise of mizo, and more people talking about how to pack nakhla ... people are having better luck with it, and this is creating the rise of nak fans. I mean the sprinkle method with nakhla doesn't work very well, usually 15 min in it gets burned and gross. If i don't smoke for a while i still get the same size buzz i did when i was 16 ... but it isn't often i don't smoke for a while, heh.

[ColibriDon]

I would argue that it is user error. Here's why.

I used to fail at packing Tangiers daily, it never worked. I tried acclimating it in my apartment (With the AC off) and it failed miserably. Living in FL with humidity changing every 2 seconds, the product was unsmokeable. My packing was also miserable, I never put enough tobacco in and it always failed.

So, determined to get it to smoke right, I drove down to San Diego to learn the technique from the man himself--you can find this technique in my videos and on Eric/HookahJohn's (These are better because they're hilarious) videos. This is the first step, make sure you put enough in. If the user fails at the technique, then they shouldn't blame the product, they should blame themselves. If you have the packing down, acclimate in as close to an unchanging environment as you can get.

This is where AC comes in. With AC set to auto, it changes the temperature of the residence automatically to maintain it at a desired level. And yes, AC affects humidity as well--that's part of the point, to produce a dry, cool environment so mold can't grow. Let the tobacco sit out in this environment until it smells right and then smoke it in the same environment. It says, on the package, expose it to the air it will be smoked in. Acclimating it inside doesn't do jack if you smoke it outside. This isn't a theory, it's a fact. I have tested it myself, if I acclimate inside and then smoke outside, the session is crap.

So, if you smoke outside in a changing environment, I don't know what to tell you. Try acclimating at night and smoking at night--I haven't tested this yet but I plan on it.

I would hate to see the quality of Tangiers, which is the best on the market, in my opinion, compromised because people can't seem to get the acclimation right. Acclimating it near a humidifier and then taking it outside to smoke in Massachusetts where you're so close to the ocean is counter-productive. No wonder it won't work, you're taking it to a very dry environment and then smoking it in a moist one, it just goes into shock again.

This isn't to be as harsh as it sounds but I really do think I am on to something with this AC thing and I know it works, I just want to try and help people.

[Arcane]

If you physically can't consume it because of the way the product is produced or what is done during production, that is a weakness. (assuming the reason it cannot be consumed isn't user error, like improperly packing the bowl) You need to consider all angles and situations when creating a product to ensure it can be used anywhere. If your buyers want to consume your product, but they can't for whatever reason. That is a fault on the producers end. At least I think so.

I don't agree. Let's use milk as an example. A lot of people are lactose intolerant. So, they're unable to consume that product. To make it more accessible, companies have produced lactose-free milk, which in my opinion, tastes like crap. However, to appeal to the masses, they've put out a more accomodating yet lower quality product. If they were in it for pure profit, it's probably a decision. I don't Eric is in it JUST for profit. He takes pride in his craft.

If I were to create a food dish that I loved, yet there's an certain ingredient that can't be consumed by 50% of the population. So, in test batches...I make the dish without said ingredient and find that the final product isn't what I would consider acceptable and something that I wouldn't be proud to have my name associated with. Now, I'm in a moral dilemma...do I put out a sub-par product that I know will sell and make more money? Or do I stand by my standards and morals and release what I think to be a better product and take a hit on profits?

Myself, I'd choose the latter.

Basically, Eric has said it before...he can definitely make a "Nakhla" and "Starbuzz" type tobacco...which would be easier to pack, easier to smoke, etc...but, the flavor won't last as long or be as rich, complex, etc. If I were in your position, Mattar...I'd definitely wish Eric would compromise just so I can smoke Tangiers...but, even still...I can admire the fact the he won't.

[Arcane]

Btw, you said how nak prob has less water in their tobacco than most companies but not tang ... do you think that they do this purposely for the reason to not have to acclimate? Or would you say the amount you found that they used was clearly an amount that shows it is put in there as a umm ... filler if you will.

actually, i wouldn't doubt this being the case....on both counts. more water content to make it easier to smoke and to free weight for more profit.


you said it yourself too, mattar. sometimes, nakhla needs acclimation. its seems almost apparent that it has less water content than many other tobaccos, so its more susceptible to humidty shock than those tobaccos. but, i'm guessing Tangiers has significantly less water than Nakhla..meaning its VERY susceptible to humidity shock.

[redjako]

His lactose was a general statement on the differences between people..even with a perfect OG bowl some of my friends hack and die, no matter the flavor. They just can't handle the shit.

Honestly, the "flavor" of the nicotine makes more heavy, regardless of flavor.

However, I have also had the wasted whole pack of 250 g of tangiers..mine never tastes like soysauce, rather, it will taste "dry" as hell with little to now flavor..so tickling and smoke.

To fix it I've had to acc 24 hours for EVERY bowl prior to the session...but, some of you may be fuggerd.

Personally, if you WANT AF / NAKHLA, then you should purchase it...lucid line is great, and OG line is acquired and great.

[mattarios2]

His lactose was a general statement on the differences between people..even with a perfect OG bowl some of my friends hack and die, no matter the flavor. They just can't handle the shit.

Honestly, the "flavor" of the nicotine makes more heavy, regardless of flavor.

However, I have also had the wasted whole pack of 250 g of tangiers..mine never tastes like soysauce, rather, it will taste "dry" as hell with little to now flavor..so tickling and smoke.

To fix it I've had to acc 24 hours for EVERY bowl prior to the session...but, some of you may be fuggerd.

Personally, if you WANT AF / NAKHLA, then you should purchase it...lucid line is great, and OG line is acquired and great.

Mine smelt like soy sauce, when i smoked it it usually tasted like nothing, sometimes just tasted old (i guess dry is a good word) Sometimes no flavor thin clouds, no flavor thick clouds, i have had it taste like plastic before too.

And no, no AF for me, well except a couple flavors

[Majid]

Maybe a product could be developped to standardize acclimation? Humidor-like contraption?