The Steady Parade Of Suspensions Continues.

[joytron]

As for those of you who want single offense= perma ban I would strongly advise against it. A lot of people, including me, have been banned before and through rehabilatation are now productive members of this forum. I think that the wisest course of action is to maybe after the get banned send them a PM asking them if the are willing to follow the rules, if not a perma ban could be in place

[newjacksm]

Word filtering is good, its sort of the same thing that Word PRocessor uses. You can change any word you want into something else. That's why if you type teh it goes automatically to The.

You can change that if you wanted to really type Teh you can keep it that way by going into options..

I am sure there is an addon for this forum to do that. I have seen it before. I have also seen words being blocked out...

[TobiasKM]

Word filtering would actually be a very good idea, at least as a measure to prevent unintended mistakes. Plus, it would ensure that these "unwanted types" from google wouldn't be a problem.

I'm all for that, how practical it is for the admins.. Of that i have no idea

[Hippo_Master]

But you really have to have absolutely no brain to 1) Not read the rules... 2) Use a word that relates to NHT. In the forum rules it's rule #2, right after "Don't be an asshole".

Really now, you have to have completely no sense at all and have an IQ that does not let you eat or walk without help. Also, if someone mentions that they use NHT, then they should very well be perma-banned because obviously they are the EXACT person that we do not want here.

I have been banned for talking shit, and I try not to do it too much anymore, but some people are just so ridiculously idiotic.

What mushrat bans most people for nowadays is for NOT READING THE RULES. Therefore, not reading the rules is against the rules, which makes perfect sense.

Word editing: It sounds like a way for people to type out illegal terms and not get in trouble; this causes more people to say these words because they think it's no shit off their ass + they can't get in trouble for actually saying them, and this means much more work for the mods. If you have to say an illegal term, maybe you shouldn't be here?

There's even the term NHT. What more could you possibly need?? Edited September 19, 2009 by Hippo_Master

[StreetBob]

So is it a spike in banning that we are seeing? How do we know it's not the same, or a couple of, numbnuts coming back in with new names? How long has the rules been in place? If the rules have not changed, and we are experiencing a spike, something has to be causing it. Whatever is causing the spike, if it is a spike, is what should be fixed. Just something to chew on for your next bowl

[mushrat]

We can use a word filter, but as said above, that takes the responsibility for watching what you say away from the poster. Though the ch issue may be one to use because we dont hand out a suspension when its used in reference to John's coals.

The spike is hard to define really. Just seems to come in waves...

[Priapus]

question: you know how we got a list for banned vendors? can we not have a list of banned words?

you know, just to point out to people who infringe or shatter the rules to say 'look at banned words thread. you have no defence.'

listing the words would defeat the purpose bro..reason why the words can not be said is cause google will pick it up right away and will bring the wrong type of people to this forum..

but, if its a locked thread, and at the top in BIG bold words saying that using the following words will
cause you to be perma banned.

then a list of NHT stuff...

wait, just had an idea whilst typing this.

what about a thread made by an admin that links to a dictionary type site?
setup is like;

This Word or any word in this subject area will mean that you get PERMA banned.
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

instead of the word example(above link), it would link to a NHT word or device.

its not perfect, but it makes it plain that NHT/device is not welcome here.

this i almost like..

glad i could help... well, almost help. lol!

just wish i could smoke me some shisha to get my creative juices flowing.

is there a way to set up a system between where the new user registers and then clicks on the activation link via their e-mail inbox.

the new system could be like a 5 min wait where the only thing that the users IP can read is the rules?

eg;

i'm a guest. i can read everything in the forum (minus protected).
i decide to become a part of the forum.
i register.
i need to validate.
i go to my e-mail inbox.
i validate.
i then go back to the site to log in.
i log in, and am greeted by a page saying "Welcome To The Forum! You will be given full access to this site in a few minutes. please take this time to READ and UNDERSTAND the Rules."
after 3-5 mins, automaticly moved to normal forum...

this way, its like they have absolutely NO EXCUSE when they cross the line with NHT/device.

i dont know if the above is clearly explained, let alone possible.

but i hope you get an idea of what i'm trying to express.

---
ugh... my hands are shaking. i fear that i've joined the Darkside by not smoking any shisha in over 2 days.

*begins to contemplate using Force Lightning on friends that took me on an unscheduled roadtrip*

[mushrat]

question: you know how we got a list for banned vendors? can we not have a list of banned words?

you know, just to point out to people who infringe or shatter the rules to say 'look at banned words thread. you have no defence.'

listing the words would defeat the purpose bro..reason why the words can not be said is cause google will pick it up right away and will bring the wrong type of people to this forum..

but, if its a locked thread, and at the top in BIG bold words saying that using the following words will
cause you to be perma banned.

then a list of NHT stuff...

wait, just had an idea whilst typing this.

what about a thread made by an admin that links to a dictionary type site?
setup is like;

This Word or any word in this subject area will mean that you get PERMA banned.
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

instead of the word example(above link), it would link to a NHT word or device.

its not perfect, but it makes it plain that NHT/device is not welcome here.

this i almost like..

glad i could help... well, almost help. lol!

just wish i could smoke me some shisha to get my creative juices flowing.

is there a way to set up a system between where the new user registers and then clicks on the activation link via their e-mail inbox.

the new system could be like a 5 min wait where the only thing that the users IP can read is the rules?

eg;

i'm a guest. i can read everything in the forum (minus protected).
i decide to become a part of the forum.
i register.
i need to validate.
i go to my e-mail inbox.
i validate.
i then go back to the site to log in.
i log in, and am greeted by a page saying "Welcome To The Forum! You will be given full access to this site in a few minutes. please take this time to READ and UNDERSTAND the Rules."
after 3-5 mins, automaticly moved to normal forum...

this way, its like they have absolutely NO EXCUSE when they cross the line with NHT/device.

i dont know if the above is clearly explained, let alone possible.

but i hope you get an idea of what i'm trying to express.

---
ugh... my hands are shaking. i fear that i've joined the Darkside by not smoking any shisha in over 2 days.

*begins to contemplate using Force Lightning on friends that took me on an unscheduled roadtrip*

hmmm...naw. lets have some personal responsibility.

[tinyj316]

As someone who was on the verge of meeting the banhammer before I even got my first post, I am opposed to the permaban off the get go. I turned out to be a productive member of the forum...hell, I even ponied up the $15 to become a premium member.

I think that this issue is going to be one we have regardless of what we do. People are always going to find a way to bypass it... Anything we do, short of going invite only, or making the person go through an application process (although, I'll touch on this in a minute) we're not going to see a drop in d-bags...

As for the application process, I think this one could be feasable. If the person has to fill out a brief application (which could include experience level, favorite tobacco, making them read the rules, any other assorted questions...essentially having them fill out a profile before they join the forum), they're less likely to be a tool. These applications could then be put up to the Premium Members section of the forum to have premium members grant "sponsorship" to the applicant. I was a part of a forum like this, and it rarely had people talking about anything against the rules, and if it did, it was the person leaving the forum in a "selfrighteous blaze of glory". If a new person gets banned, then that could lead to strikes against the Premium member, or a loss of sponsorship privleges.

[714xDGAFxKING]

how about this mush..

build this in part of the registration process, they have to pass and answer a few questions about the rules. and have it like an open book test. rules on the left hand side and test on the right hand side. there could be NO excuses after that!!! my idea kicks ass mush!! admit it!!

[ilikemyusername]

nope nope nope no no.
to validate your account users have to travel through the road of shame seeing every one who was banned and.... okay, I'll drop it.

[redjako]

ALL internet etiquette dictates to STAY OFF THE INTERWEBZ when you are hammered.

[gunsboy]

I am not a big fan of over-moderation, not that this is going on here. I read some really good posts and I especially like those.

7 day ban first offense, 30 day ban second offense, and permaban after that. Three strikes, you're outta here!!!

This really sounds fair enough.

how about this mush..

build this in part of the registration process, they have to pass and answer a few questions about the rules. and have it like an open book test. rules on the left hand side and test on the right hand side. there could be NO excuses after that!!! my idea kicks ass mush!! admit it!!

This is a great idea.

Also you can create a little program that sweeps through the forums and replaces any illegal words by NHT to help incase no mods were around for a vacation or something.

[714xDGAFxKING]

I am not a big fan of over-moderation, not that this is going on here. I read some really good posts and I especially like those.

7 day ban first offense, 30 day ban second offense, and permaban after that. Three strikes, you're outta here!!!

This really sounds fair enough.

how about this mush..

build this in part of the registration process, they have to pass and answer a few questions about the rules. and have it like an open book test. rules on the left hand side and test on the right hand side. there could be NO excuses after that!!! my idea kicks ass mush!! admit it!!

This is a great idea.

Also you can create a little program that sweeps through the forums and replaces any illegal words by NHT to help incase no mods were around for a vacation or something.

i think me and you have the hottest ideas bro!! dam we kick ass!!! now lets present this to mush with a power point presentation and earn some brownie points!!!!! lol lol jk but we do have some hot ideas!

[Spats]

World filtering would be good idea IMHO. Changing Ch****c Hookah Coals to CH Coals automatically would prevent, I think, the majority of complete accidents. People don't talk in real life as they would on the forums so if a person isn't used to saying CH they are susceptible to making an easy mistake.

This is all John's fault.

My first exposure to these FINE coals is by their real name, CH! I turned myself in as I realized the "C" word is not good. But was reassured the CH in reference to the product in this context was OK. HJ is in the process of re-branding his coals to comply (if I understand it right.) HJ did spend time and money is the establishment of his "brand name" for this product. If you can filter the "CH" word then all is better than well! It really isn't John's fault his product name hit a "bad" note, even though I do honestly appreciate and desire to avoid the total NHT inferences. Lord knows, I get tired of the "looks" when I have to explain my hookah pleasures to "commoners"

[gunsboy]

i think me and you have the hottest ideas bro!! dam we kick ass!!! now lets present this to mush with a power point presentation and earn some brownie points!!!!! lol lol jk but we do have some hot ideas!

Working on the power point. Do we get free stuff for having the GREATEST BESTEST COOLEST AWESOMEST EVER AFTER ideas

[Sisonpyh]

Maybe have everyone take a quiz after reading the rules after they click that they accept, if they get one wrong give them this: haha.

how about this mush..

build this in part of the registration process, they have to pass and answer a few questions about the rules. and have it like an open book test. rules on the left hand side and test on the right hand side. there could be NO excuses after that!!! my idea kicks ass mush!! admit it!!

I am not a big fan of over-moderation, not that this is going on here. I read some really good posts and I especially like those.

7 day ban first offense, 30 day ban second offense, and permaban after that. Three strikes, you're outta here!!!

This really sounds fair enough.

how about this mush..

build this in part of the registration process, they have to pass and answer a few questions about the rules. and have it like an open book test. rules on the left hand side and test on the right hand side. there could be NO excuses after that!!! my idea kicks ass mush!! admit it!!

This is a great idea.

Also you can create a little program that sweeps through the forums and replaces any illegal words by NHT to help incase no mods were around for a vacation or something.

Can I get in the GREATEST BESTEST COOLEST AWESOMEST EVER AFTER ideas club?

[ih303]

I wonder how John feels about all this. I heard at one point he was going to change the name to avoid this very thing but have not heard anything about it since. I'm just glad you can't get banned for referring to CH's. They are a fantastic coal, and to not be able to talk about them would be a travesty.

[ryno]

I like the 7/30/perma ban. I think we're all forgetting the easiest way to fix this... read the rules!

[jezter6]

I think 30 days is too long and that member would most likely not come back. I'd say five days followed by permaban on the repeat offense, buts it's your call.

Honestly, the point is - a LOT of these members we don't WANT back.

I think it really needs to be a mod decision and based on context.


Using CH coals wrongly - nice light kick in the ass.
Talking about how you were smoking something we don't talk about here - heavy kick in the ass.
A word that slips in because it has multiple meantings - light kick.
Arguing with the mods - swift kick in the ban box.

Most of these are HEAVY kicks - and deserve a good suspension. If it's INTENTIONAL usage of something we don't want to talk about here - 30 days, then PERMA.

If it's a slip/accident/whatever - 7 days should be enough for anyone to understand that they screwed up and misused a term. And if they come back and do it again - 30 day or PERMA.


I've used a term that was not allowed here because I was discussing other people and called them a name that references illegal things, but was not directly talking about using them -- I would have been ok with a light kick in the ass and told to read the rules. But it was a SLIP. I realized what I said minutes after I said it, and that I knew it was a mistake.

People who use it with intent - can GTFO as far as I'm concerned.

[r1v3th3ad]

so if we do move to the 7day/30day/perma-ban, does everyone who had a ban in the past start over with a clean slate?

[Priapus]

I think 30 days is too long and that member would most likely not come back. I'd say five days followed by permaban on the repeat offense, buts it's your call.

Honestly, the point is - a LOT of these members we don't WANT back.

I think it really needs to be a mod decision and based on context.


Using CH coals wrongly - nice light kick in the ass.
Talking about how you were smoking something we don't talk about here - heavy kick in the ass.
A word that slips in because it has multiple meantings - light kick.
Arguing with the mods - swift kick in the ban box.

Most of these are HEAVY kicks - and deserve a good suspension. If it's INTENTIONAL usage of something we don't want to talk about here - 30 days, then PERMA.

If it's a slip/accident/whatever - 7 days should be enough for anyone to understand that they screwed up and misused a term. And if they come back and do it again - 30 day or PERMA.


I've used a term that was not allowed here because I was discussing other people and called them a name that references illegal things, but was not directly talking about using them -- I would have been ok with a light kick in the ass and told to read the rules. But it was a SLIP. I realized what I said minutes after I said it, and that I knew it was a mistake.

People who use it with intent - can GTFO as far as I'm concerned.

to be honest, if the board becomes too strict, i foresee less traffic coming through to our board. no matter what we do, new people will do stupid things. when they get a perma ban straight off the mark, they'll most likely go to other forums and start trash talking about our forum. when enough of these people are members of the same place, there will be a risk of starting a cross forum/board flame war...

an example is when ps3 users found out information about EA (video game developer company) was the reason why in-game-music (much wanted feature) has not yet been released/incorporated, when it could have been from day 1, more then a few people joined up to EA's forum to bad mouth it.

proof is in the supplied pic - MODS; if unsuitable due to language used in said pic, please remove.

this could be a real possibility.

the pic is a screen dump from EA's forum. i did not take the screen dump, but got it of a ps3 forum.

[Capt. Morgan]

I have to agree with jezter that the length of the bans depends on the context of the situation. After all mistakes happen, if you can come back from your ban a become a good contributing member to the forum a month long ban seems excessive to me. Then again if you want to fight with the mods or other members when they point out your mistake then perma ban the sorry prick as far as I'm concerned.

My biggest question is how many of the people who receive ban, particularly for NHT references, actually come back to the come back to the forum once their ban is up? From what I've seen the overwhelming majority of bans are given out to new members and you never see them again afterward.

[Sonthert]

Well, let me offer an alternate viewpoint. We used to have 3 day bans. They bans continued, but more, so they became 7 day bans...they continued even more, they became 14 day bans, and yet they continue. Longer bans isn't helping, it might even be making the problem worse.

Why would that be? As somebody else said, more banned people (or asshats from other Forums with a grudge) messing around making additional accounts. The longer bans won;t help that. IP Bans won't either. its a reality we just have to be vigilant for. The other possibility is that more traffic on the site has made for more people not reading the rules and getting bans. So? Longer bans aren't helping.

People will make mistakes. I've never had any intention of breaking the rules, but I've been banned twice. I've even read the rules. More than once. Still made a mistake. One was definitely a mistake. Should I be perma-banned? Rivethead was banned once. I think perma-banning people after one incident is a bad idea. Who knows whether the guy making the mistake is an idiot or another Rivethead?

I will agree that the current system is not working that well. Thats why I think we should try something else, something slightly different.

What I would suggest is: set up word filters, prevent people from being stupid. Thats what they are there for (The filters, that is ). If there is another type of infraction, like NHT-related or whatnot:

1st Infraction: we disable the posting privileges of the member and send them a PM asking them to read the rules and confirm they have read them. If they decide to be asshats, or ignore it, they're gone. Their account is junk and we don't have to lift a finger to do it. I think the multi-day ban thing is OK, but we should try to interact with the violators more rather than simply pushing buttons and making them disappear.

2nd Infraction: Mandatory 7-Day suspension with the same indefinite posting privilege suspension and a PM. Mushy or the moderators could decide if the person needs to be perma-banned if its a repeat Infraction of the same general rule. Thats pretty much what we do already..you just don't see it.

3rd Infraction: Permanent ban with an email unless Mushy and the moderators agree in some manner to give the offender a break.

[r1v3th3ad]

Well, let me offer an alternate viewpoint. We used to have 3 day bans. They bans continued, but more, so they became 7 day bans...they continued even more, they became 14 day bans, and yet they continue. Longer bans isn't helping, it might even be making the problem worse.

Why would that be? As somebody else said, more banned people (or asshats from other Forums with a grudge) messing around making additional accounts. The longer bans won;t help that. IP Bans won't either. its a reality we just have to be vigilant for. The other possibility is that more traffic on the site has made for more people not reading the rules and getting bans. So? Longer bans aren't helping.

People will make mistakes. I've never had any intention of breaking the rules, but I've been banned twice. I've even read the rules. More than once. Still made a mistake. One was definitely a mistake. Should I be perma-banned? Rivethead was banned once. I think perma-banning people after one incident is a bad idea. Who knows whether the guy making the mistake is an idiot or another Rivethead?

I will agree that the current system is not working that well. Thats why I think we should try something else, something slightly different.

What I would suggest is: set up word filters, prevent people from being stupid. Thats what they are there for (The filters, that is ). If there is another type of infraction, like NHT-related or whatnot:

1st Infraction: we disable the posting privileges of the member and send them a PM asking them to read the rules and confirm they have read them. If they decide to be asshats, or ignore it, they're gone. Their account is junk and we don't have to lift a finger to do it. I think the multi-day ban thing is OK, but we should try to interact with the violators more rather than simply pushing buttons and making them disappear.

2nd Infraction: Mandatory 7-Day suspension with the same indefinite posting privilege suspension and a PM. Mushy or the moderators could decide if the person needs to be perma-banned if its a repeat Infraction of the same general rule. Thats pretty much what we do already..you just don't see it.

3rd Infraction: Permanent ban with an email unless Mushy and the moderators agree in some manner to give the offender a break.

I was just being a jackass with my ban, making a joke when I knew it was wrong...I shoulda knew better...

anyway I like system you have set there sonthert...but with that and the flow of suspensions coming forth, you guys might need a larger modsquad to handle the case load.
I'll volunteer my services