To Be Or Not To Be Km

[ih303]

I'm pretty proud with the selection of hookahs we have at our lounge. So imagine my surprise when a couple of guys from Saudi Arabia come in and tell me half my KM's are not KM's! They began to school me on the different ways to distinguish hookahs.

One of the things they told me to look for was the weight, solidness, and thickness of the stem. For instance, I have one of my personal KM's down there that I know is a legit KM. They showed be by tapping on it how solid it was and how thick the metal was. They then proceeded to pick up one of my Pears and performing the same test. The stem was way lighter, way thinner, and completely hollow. Then they pointed out the KM Butterfly I had on the shelf as not a true KM as well for the same reasons. They told me these were, in fact, cheap syrian rigs fitted onto KM bases. Interestingly enough, they also pointed out a four-hose sahara-smoke hookah we have as having a KM Stem but a generic base.

So now I'm confused. Either they're wrong or John (who I got them from) is wrong. What gives?

[mushrat]

Well, unless i see credentials form the guys, they are just dudes off the street. Also remember that KM is making what amounts to an "export" class of hookahs that aren't as well made as the ones they keep at home. This has been discussed before. So what we may have here is the guys used to the stuff they keep in country and not being familiar with the export quality line. It is also possible that whoever is shipping them to John and the rest of the vendors is slipping in cheaper shit and not telling them. While the second choice is likely i'd be more inclined to go with the first.

As far as guys off the street. I've had them come in and tell me that im coaling my hookahs wrong, doesn't mean they know wtf they are talking about.

[twoapplesplease]

I think there a little confused but both right and wrong.The sahras are becoming more popular in the middle east and could be mistaken.And I think the lighter KM's are KM's but made for export to cut down on weight.The KM's in the middle east are much heavier.

Interesting indeed.

[ih303]

These guys are by no means certified hookah experts. They are just typical arabs who have been smoking since they came out of the womb. The way they explained it to me is like this. In Arab countries, the two most popular types of hookahs (shishas) are the Egyptian-made and they Syrian-made. Egyptian-made hookahs, like KM's and Temsah's, are higher quality and command a higher price. Syrian-made hookahs apparently are the "bargain" versions and sell for less than half of what an Egyptian would. Perhaps KM is slapping their name on some lower quality, Syrian-made hookahs in order to save money, and perhaps this is why so many people have noticed a drop in quality over the past year or so.

(By the way, I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here with some of you if this information is accurate, but it's news to me.)

While I have no reason to question John or any other hookah retailer/distributor, I wonder if the origin of these hookahs should be designated when they are shipped and then priced accordingly. When you're looking at a picture online, there's really no way to tell how heavy the stem is or what kind of quality it is.

[ih303]

As far as guys off the street. I've had them come in and tell me that im coaling my hookahs wrong, doesn't mean they know wtf they are talking about.

I've seen those guys too. Had a guy come in the other day telling us we were putting the foil on the bowls too tight (WTF?).

But, when Arabs come in, I like to pick their brains since I know they've been smoking longer than I have. Like you said, though, doesn't necessarily mean they're right.

[Zinite]

I'll call bullshit. How do you explain the lighter 'KMs' coming in Khalil Mamoon cardboard boxes? That's the way all of them ship, as far as I know.

[thehelios]

How light is light? I thought I was investigating a fake KM since it was so light and felt hollow as hell.

[mattarios2]

well i do believe the km's we get majority of the time have far shoddier welds than those in egypt. BUT, i do think the pears and all the km's without brass or copper are just as light as they are over there. I don't know for sure though.

After seeing how light MZ's and many other egyptian rigs are, I don't doubt that KM's that are only made up of galvanized steel are light like the ones we get here.

I say stick with any km that has brass like i've always said, and they always weigh AT LEAST 2-3 lbs, are solid, never rust, and smoke wonderfully.

For the OP, don't know what to tell you about those guys, i think im gonna call bullshit though.

[mushrat]

Heck, im from upstate new york, doesn't make me an expert on hockey or baseball. I now live in NC, doesn't make me an expert on BBQ, well ok, it does, but still, you get the idea. When I stop getting native middle easterners piling the entire head with coals and burning the shit out of the AF, then I'll believe that just because they are from the middle east they are experts on hookahs.

No offense is intended by the above statements, but really, you are supposed to vaporize the tobacco, not incinerate it. --

[no longer welcome]

I'm calling bs too, not that I trust anyone in this industry 100% though, anything is possible, but i do get my KM's from an importer who has been doing this for years, and sat down for dinner in cairo with Sheriff Mamoon, (Khalil Mamoon's son and current co owner) along with another forum trusted member/vendor, George from HC. If these are fake then there is some major conspiricy going on. Now I do hear about fake KM's floating around the SF/BAy Area but it's just industry rumors for now. Who knows?

[ih303]

I'll call bullshit. How do you explain the lighter 'KMs' coming in Khalil Mamoon cardboard boxes? That's the way all of them ship, as far as I know.

The fact that they come in KM packaging certainly makes the whole thing seem legit. I guess my question would be, why the difference in construction? Why make one hollow and one solid? Why brand one stem and not the other? Something's off here.

How light is light? I thought I was investigating a fake KM since it was so light and felt hollow as hell.

That's what I thought too. When you feel the weight of a twenty-something inch, solid KM or Temsah next to the weight of the 35" KM Pear, the smaller hookahs weigh at least the same. Probably more. The Pear and the Butterfly are also both hollow whereas the Temsah, for instance, is solid.


It's clear to me that regardless of whether they are made by KM or not, they are very different in their construction and quality. Like I said before, could it be that KM is just having some syrian company crank out cheaper, lower quality hookahs with their name on it to ship to the states?

[foibled again]

A well built KM is a well built KM regardless if it's hollow or solid. KM trimetals are nice but there are wider gauged KMs out there like the new butterfly and World Trophy, both of which are hollow.

If you want a solid hookah, go with Temsah. There really isn't anything out there anymore that compares to them in that department.

[ih303]

I'm calling bs too, not that I trust anyone in this industry 100% though, anything is possible, but i do get my KM's from an importer who has been doing this for years, and sat down for dinner in cairo with Sheriff Mamoon, (Khalil Mamoon's son and current co owner) along with another forum trusted member/vendor, George from HC. If these are fake then there is some major conspiricy going on. Now I do hear about fake KM's floating around the SF/BAy Area but it's just industry rumors for now. Who knows?

John, are you aware of KM turning out different lines or grades of hookahs? Maybe one for local distribution and one for export? Maybe at this point I don't doubt the brand authenticity as much as I can't ignore so many discrepancies. I mean, it's not a big deal, I just like to know what I'm talking about and have something to say when someone comes into my lounge and challenges something there.

Again, these guys just seem like regular twenty-something college students who are here going to school from Saudi. They've been around hookahs their entire lives which is why I expect them to know more than the common American.

I kind of see it like how we could probably distinguish a real pair of Oakleys from a fake pair. If you went to another country and you saw someone selling fake Oakleys for full price, you would think they were either a crook or simply uneducated. I don't want to be either.

[ih303]

A well built KM is a well built KM regardless if it's hollow or solid. KM trimetals are nice but there are wider gauged KMs out there like the new butterfly and World Trophy, both of which are hollow.

If you want a solid hookah, go with Temsah. There really isn't anything out there anymore that compares to them in that department.

The question is, are the hollow ones actually well built? I always measured a hookah's quality by their weight/thickness and construction. I would compare those hollow KM's to the traditional style hookahs sold at socialsmoke.com. Aren't those chinese knockoffs?

[mattarios2]

other than the feel, it doesnt matter if they are hollow or not. My KM pear smokes and was as solid (when comparing to them falling on the ground and what not) as my tri metal. I mean if you take a km pear and smash it into a wall its probably going to ding, where as the tri metal is going to put a hole in the wall.

But in all honesty I really don't think it matters, as long as they don't rust, and the inside pipe stays smooth and clean who cares?

But for the OP wanting to be educated ... I don't know the actual truth as to if they are REAL KM's produced BY KM, or if they are the same parts being put together by a syrian company or the like.

[no longer welcome]

the hollow vs solid are just 2 different products by km, meaning trimetal/pharonies/heart of lion have some solid/semi solid pices like around the chamber and the top piece where the tray rests on. The double pear, or any pear and butterfly and other all stainless steel models are more hollow, including the piece where the tray rests on. They are all KM's as far as I know. What I've also heard is that KM does produce betetr quality for different countires, meaning in Dubai and Saudi Arabia, where your customers are from, they may get the better quality KM's, I have heard that from my importer but have not seen that. In the US it's up to the importer to choose the quality based on what he is willing to spend on them and expect to sell them for in the US. We may be getting a less quality KM. This is all hearsay for the most part but it makes sense to me.
btw not all Arabs will know everything about hookah, in fact I see the American hookah smoker staring to know more about hookah than the Arab hookah smoker. The "gulf" guys, meaning KSA, Dubai, Emirates, etc, they have more disposable income and can get the good quality hookahs and shisha imported (this is an assumption) The countires where people make less, and I'll use this example since I have witnessed it, Lebanon, they have the cheapest Syrian/Egyptian?Chinese hookahs flooding the market. I don't see a market there for too many people spending $100+ for a km. Same goes for shisha, I don't think they will spend $20 per can of SB. They have never heard of Magdy Zaidan or Khalil Mamoon there. The American hookah smoker is definately more educated imo.

[foibled again]

The question is, are the hollow ones actually well built? I always measured a hookah's quality by their weight/thickness and construction. I would compare those hollow KM's to the traditional style hookahs sold at socialsmoke.com. Aren't those chinese knockoffs?

Build quality varies across all hookahs. It's not specific to hollow or solid. In general both the hollow and more solid KM stems share the same assembly methods. The only difference are the pieces themselves.

My World Trophy weighs slightly less than my OG Trimetal. The World Trophy is wider gauged, built solidly, and IMO the better stem (it's the best KM I've smoked from), but it's hollow. Does that make it a cheap knockoff or comparable to one? You've gotta be kidding me...

[Scoop]

those guys would piss me off...

imagine some tools walk into your store and start telling you your merchandise/hookahs are trash and fake because they somehow inherently know this to be true.

[thehelios]

So I just need to know. My philosophy on build quality follows a main standard: If you can knock someone out with the hookah, it's good quality. If it would bend or break when hitting someone, then pass it by.

These hollow KM's; would they be able to knock someone out or would they snap?

[ih303]

My World Trophy weighs slightly less than my OG Trimetal. The World Trophy is wider gauged, built solidly, and IMO the better stem (it's the best KM I've smoked from), but it's hollow. Does that make it a cheap knockoff or comparable to one? You've gotta be kidding me...

I don't know. Does it? It seems like judging a hookah by how solid or thick it is may not be an accurate measurement of its quality. Although, I would tend to think that if your World Trophy came in a solid version, it would be higher quality. It also seems that build quality is not necessarily directly related to performance quality. If that's the case, then it really doesn't matter what you smoke out of. Although I don't see that as being the case. So here's my question for you, what's the difference between a chinese knockoff and a hollow KM in terms of build and performance quality?

those guys would piss me off...

imagine some tools walk into your store and start telling you your merchandise/hookahs are trash and fake because they somehow inherently know this to be true.

They didn't actually tell me that anything I had was trash. But as I was showing them the new merch, the pointed out that the stem I introduced as a KM looked more like a Syrian. Personally, I don't really care so long as they're good hookahs. I just don't want to be giving customers bad information about the products I sell them.

These hollow KM's; would they be able to knock someone out or would they snap?

I don't think you could knock someone out with a KM Pear. But I also don't think it would snap. Would it hurt? Of course. But it would be nothing like getting whacked with one of those Tamseh's.

[ih303]

the hollow vs solid are just 2 different products by km, meaning trimetal/pharonies/heart of lion have some solid/semi solid pices like around the chamber and the top piece where the tray rests on. The double pear, or any pear and butterfly and other all stainless steel models are more hollow, including the piece where the tray rests on. They are all KM's as far as I know. What I've also heard is that KM does produce betetr quality for different countires, meaning in Dubai and Saudi Arabia, where your customers are from, they may get the better quality KM's, I have heard that from my importer but have not seen that. In the US it's up to the importer to choose the quality based on what he is willing to spend on them and expect to sell them for in the US. We may be getting a less quality KM. This is all hearsay for the most part but it makes sense to me.
btw not all Arabs will know everything about hookah, in fact I see the American hookah smoker staring to know more about hookah than the Arab hookah smoker. The "gulf" guys, meaning KSA, Dubai, Emirates, etc, they have more disposable income and can get the good quality hookahs and shisha imported (this is an assumption) The countires where people make less, and I'll use this example since I have witnessed it, Lebanon, they have the cheapest Syrian/Egyptian?Chinese hookahs flooding the market. I don't see a market there for too many people spending $100+ for a km. Same goes for shisha, I don't think they will spend $20 per can of SB. They have never heard of Magdy Zaidan or Khalil Mamoon there. The American hookah smoker is definately more educated imo.

This is what I was trying to get at. It makes perfect sense.

I also recognize that some Arabs may tend to be limited in their knowledge of modern smoking. They may know all about KM's and Double Apple, but show them a phunnel bowl loaded with Tangiers and they get this kind of lost look in their eyes. Edited October 7, 2009 by ih303

[JDHarding]

I don't think I personally care if my KM's are hollow or solid. The stems are so big and thick looking that if they were solid metal, they'd topple over all the time. As long as they're not made of shitty aluminum, I'm happy.

[Arcane]

The American hookah smoker is definately more educated imo.

USA! USA! USA!


go America!!

[antouwan]

I don't think I personally care if my KM's are hollow or solid. The stems are so big and thick looking that if they were solid metal, they'd topple over all the time. As long as they're not made of shitty aluminum, I'm happy.

that's true. i wonder if height/size of the stem is a factor at all, at least in some of the cases. i mean, how practical would a 40" exotica be if the damn thing was solid?

[gtm2007]

Here's a question I have as a NOOB - does the build quality (solid vs. hollow, brass vs. galvanized steel, etc.) have much to do with smoking quality? I mean, for maintenance and lifespan of the stem I can definitely see how thicker and better metal with a wider down-stem diameter are ideal, but I've watched my friend disassemble a "solid" KM stem and find a small gear wheel that the rest of the stem had been forged around. The only day-to-day reason I can see having a more solid stem for would be for stability, but can't you achieve the same results with a thicker base?

These are just my thoughts. Is lifespan really that important?