Tangiers Packing

[JDHarding]

Yeah, another Tangiers topic.. sorry.. but I have a particular question concerning packing. I pack my small phunnel like Eric and John do, but I'm curious if the holes should be poked all the way through the shisha to the bottom of the bowl or should they just penetrate the foil? I heard something about air pockets in Tang being a bad thing.

[Chaz1337]

This is still debated I think... Some people do, some dont. I think its what you finds works out best for you. I know you dont necessarily HAVE to but you can if you want. Its all a matter of preference I think.

[NIGHTS OF BAGHDAD]

This is still debated I think... Some people do, some dont. I think its what you finds works out best for you. I know you dont necessarily HAVE to but you can if you want. Its all a matter of preference I think.

agreed, has for myself i noticed it does better when i poke all the way down..it gives the shisha more breathing space if you can understand what i mean..so it has more air flow..

[JDHarding]

This is still debated I think... Some people do, some dont. I think its what you finds works out best for you. I know you dont necessarily HAVE to but you can if you want. Its all a matter of preference I think.

agreed, has for myself i noticed it does better when i poke all the way down..it gives the shisha more breathing space if you can understand what i mean..so it has more air flow..

Mmm.. true dat.

What about the shisha touching the foil? Is this still debatable? I usually pack all my shisha under the rim, and it seems to work fine that way.

[Arcane]

if i remember my conversation with Eric correctly...the whole poking all the way to the bottom of the bowl started when Eric was packing Tangiers in an egyptian....he says he still pokes to the bottom of the bowl with the phunnels, but admits that its not necessary when smoking with a phunnel bowl.

i think he answer was something along the lines of:
"you don't have to, but if it works the old way...why change it?"

[JDHarding]

if i remember my conversation with Eric correctly...the whole poking all the way to the bottom of the bowl started when Eric was packing Tangiers in an egyptian....he says he still pokes to the bottom of the bowl with the phunnels, but admits that its not necessary when smoking with a phunnel bowl.

i think he answer was something along the lines of:
"you don't have to, but if it works the old way...why change it?"

It's funny that Eric has never made a video of packing Tangiers.. John has. C'mon, Eric, make a video! Though people might be focused on your 'stashe more than the packing technique.

"Oooooh.. handlebar 'stashe.. mmmmm..." @.@

[Arcane]

This is still debated I think... Some people do, some dont. I think its what you finds works out best for you. I know you dont necessarily HAVE to but you can if you want. Its all a matter of preference I think.

agreed, has for myself i noticed it does better when i poke all the way down..it gives the shisha more breathing space if you can understand what i mean..so it has more air flow..

Mmm.. true dat.

What about the shisha touching the foil? Is this still debatable? I usually pack all my shisha under the rim, and it seems to work fine that way.

NoB: its been argued that conduction should be taken into an account moreso than convection...so, creating "airspace" may actually be a hinderance.

JDH: i think it really depends on the tobacco, however...when i smoke Nak, Tangiers, and AF Esk Apple (haven't smoked any other AF in a looooong time)...the tobacco is basically pushing up against the foil.

however, this works for me...if you pack below the rim and it works for you, i'd say stick with it...but, don't be afraid to experiment every once in a while...you never know if one technique will work better for you.

[destructo]

i do it because i just kind of toss it in there and level it with a fork. poking them all the way kind of evens out the dense spots

[NIGHTS OF BAGHDAD]

if i remember my conversation with Eric correctly...the whole poking all the way to the bottom of the bowl started when Eric was packing Tangiers in an egyptian....he says he still pokes to the bottom of the bowl with the phunnels, but admits that its not necessary when smoking with a phunnel bowl.

i think he answer was something along the lines of:
"you don't have to, but if it works the old way...why change it?"

It's funny that Eric has never made a video of packing Tangiers.. John has. C'mon, Eric, make a video! Though people might be focused on your 'stashe more than the packing technique.

"Oooooh.. handlebar 'stashe.. mmmmm..." @.@

actually john went over to erics and here is eric himself loading tangiers in a phunnel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACfPMVGV2V0

This is still debated I think... Some people do, some dont. I think its what you finds works out best for you. I know you dont necessarily HAVE to but you can if you want. Its all a matter of preference I think.

agreed, has for myself i noticed it does better when i poke all the way down..it gives the shisha more breathing space if you can understand what i mean..so it has more air flow..

Mmm.. true dat.

What about the shisha touching the foil? Is this still debatable? I usually pack all my shisha under the rim, and it seems to work fine that way.

NoB: its been argued that conduction should be taken into an account moreso than convection...so, creating "airspace" may actually be a hinderance.

JDH: i think it really depends on the tobacco, however...when i smoke Nak, Tangiers, and AF Esk Apple (haven't smoked any other AF in a looooong time)...the tobacco is basically pushing up against the foil.

however, this works for me...if you pack below the rim and it works for you, i'd say stick with it...but, don't be afraid to experiment every once in a while...you never know if one technique will work better for you.

ya i may stop doing it for a bit and see if i can pick up a difference in the two applications

[JDHarding]

actually john went over to erics and here is eric himself loading tangiers in a phunnel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACfPMVGV2V0

Wow.. okay, so I wasn't packing it exactly like he was. And deffinately wasn't doing the same hole pattern. I should try making holes with my japanese fork and see how that goes.

AND he puts holes in the center.. and here I thought this was a no-no..

"Why are you freaking out?" lol..

[Zinite]

http://sites.google.com/site/ultimatehooka...ngiers/tangiers

[Scoop]

http://sites.google.com/site/ultimatehooka...ngiers/tangiers

definitely way more than i pack in my bowls. i hate when its bumpy and juice comes through the top holes (personally)

[Zinite]

http://sites.google.com/site/ultimatehooka...ngiers/tangiers

definitely way more than i pack in my bowls. i hate when its bumpy and juice comes through the top holes (personally)

But it smokes sooo good

The juice coming through happens when you pull the toothpick out.

[Arcane]

i hate when its bumpy and juice comes through the top holes (personally)

that's what she said!!

[xpimpitox]

I poke holes all the way to the bottom to get nice big holes to that of the circumfrence of the toothpick. I tried ohh so many times to use a oyster fork, but I fail miserably every single time. I also let the shisha touch the foil because it smokes best for me and I love that sizzle when I first put coals on the bowl. Its kinda sexy lol.

[heron25]

can anybody help a noob tangiers lucid smoker with a non-phunnel bowl? I've tried packing it like a funnel using my finger to leave a space in the middle and pack it around the center. I get decent flavor for a bit and weak smoke and then it gets harsh after about 20 minutes. I'm using a ceramic hookah head that holds about 25 grams and using AF quicklites 40 mm (just one and i leave it close to the edge and move around slowly). Holes are made with a toothpick and uniform. Thanks in advance.

[JDHarding]

can anybody help a noob tangiers lucid smoker with a non-phunnel bowl? I've tried packing it like a funnel using my finger to leave a space in the middle and pack it around the center. I get decent flavor for a bit and weak smoke and then it gets harsh after about 20 minutes. I'm using a ceramic hookah head that holds about 25 grams and using AF quicklites 40 mm (just one and i leave it close to the edge and move around slowly). Holes are made with a toothpick and uniform. Thanks in advance.

Nonononononono... no...

Just pack your regular bowl like regular packing. Don't attempt to make it a phunnel bowl, 'cause it's not. Fill it up about half an inch over the bowl, use a fork to pack it down to the rim or just below the rim, put foil on top, poke holes all the way through to the bottom.. 3 rings of many needle holes, or toothpick holes, should do the trick.

[heron25]

OK!!! Got it, pack it normal. I'll try it tonight. I love the flavor of the kashmir cherry, hoping to get long lasting taste and smoke out of this thing.

[fcbayern]

Pack it tight, poke a bunch of Big Ass Holes (I use a Kabob Skewer) all the way down.

That is all....

[Scoop]

http://sites.google.com/site/ultimatehooka...ngiers/tangiers

definitely way more than i pack in my bowls. i hate when its bumpy and juice comes through the top holes (personally)

But it smokes sooo good

The juice coming through happens when you pull the toothpick out.

i wipe the top off before i smoke

[fcbayern]

http://sites.google.com/site/ultimatehooka...ngiers/tangiers

definitely way more than i pack in my bowls. i hate when its bumpy and juice comes through the top holes (personally)

But it smokes sooo good

The juice coming through happens when you pull the toothpick out.

i wipe the top off before i smoke

Why didnt I think of that..

[Arcane]

can anybody help a noob tangiers lucid smoker with a non-phunnel bowl? I've tried packing it like a funnel using my finger to leave a space in the middle and pack it around the center. I get decent flavor for a bit and weak smoke and then it gets harsh after about 20 minutes. I'm using a ceramic hookah head that holds about 25 grams and using AF quicklites 40 mm (just one and i leave it close to the edge and move around slowly). Holes are made with a toothpick and uniform. Thanks in advance.

Nonononononono... no...

Just pack your regular bowl like regular packing. Don't attempt to make it a phunnel bowl, 'cause it's not. Fill it up about half an inch over the bowl, use a fork to pack it down to the rim or just below the rim, put foil on top, poke holes all the way through to the bottom.. 3 rings of many needle holes, or toothpick holes, should do the trick.

its true...with lucid, i find it works if you pack it like nakhla in an egyptian. a bit more dense than a "sprinkle" pack.

but, Eric said you should put your finger in the center then pack tight around your finger...then drop a loose blob in the center where your finger was. i never tried this method, because it seems messy...and requires too much work. hahaha.

[JDHarding]

can anybody help a noob tangiers lucid smoker with a non-phunnel bowl? I've tried packing it like a funnel using my finger to leave a space in the middle and pack it around the center. I get decent flavor for a bit and weak smoke and then it gets harsh after about 20 minutes. I'm using a ceramic hookah head that holds about 25 grams and using AF quicklites 40 mm (just one and i leave it close to the edge and move around slowly). Holes are made with a toothpick and uniform. Thanks in advance.

Nonononononono... no...

Just pack your regular bowl like regular packing. Don't attempt to make it a phunnel bowl, 'cause it's not. Fill it up about half an inch over the bowl, use a fork to pack it down to the rim or just below the rim, put foil on top, poke holes all the way through to the bottom.. 3 rings of many needle holes, or toothpick holes, should do the trick.

its true...with lucid, i find it works if you pack it like nakhla in an egyptian. a bit more dense than a "sprinkle" pack.

but, Eric said you should put your finger in the center then pack tight around your finger...then drop a loose blob in the center where your finger was. i never tried this method, because it seems messy...and requires too much work. hahaha.

Haha.. I don't follow Eric's packing method anymore. His hole pattern is way too many holes. I tried it and it didn't work for me. Too many holes, not enough airflow beneath the foil. Might work if you're using 4 or 5 coals, but I only use 2 of John's, and that many holes will miss John's coals and end up giving mostly air. For Eric it works, for me it doesn't. I do pack the bowl almost the same, just with a less messy method of picking up the shisha and placing it in the bowl, instead of scooping.

So don't take everything Eric does too seriously. It works for him, but might not work for us. I believe heavily in the three ring hole pattern with the holes made with a large sewing needle, not a fork or toothpick.

[Sonthert]

You're crazy!

More holes...more airflow...more heat from the charcoal when drawing. If you were to use smaller holes, you would get less airflow, so the charcoal would heat up less. If thats true, then you would need more charcoal idling to get the same amount of heat.

All this is based on Japanese coals. Coconut coals burn hotter to begin with and probably change their temperature less with a proportional increase in airflow. In this case, more holes would not necessarily be an advantage. Might even be a disadvantage.

Just thinking out loud.

I have tried all sorts of hole patterns. The only thing it changes is the actual amount of air flow and the heat of the coals. At idle, coals develop a natural temperature. When you inhale more air rushes over the coals, heating them up. So the demand heat developed goes up. Less air (from less holes) gives less demand heat, so the difference needs to be made up with more coal idling. If the charcoal burn hotter to begin with, increased airflow might make them burn too hot with more holes. Unless you reduce the amount of charcoal, again.

That being said, JD Harding is partially right. Whatever works for you is the best way to do things. I am never not always right, however.

Could you explain, however, how I am wrong? Why is 2 CH coals the right amount? If you want to use a specific amount of coal, then you need to adjust the number of holes accordingly, but if 1 1/2 coals would do the same job with more holes...why would you use 2 coals with fewer coals?

[Sonthert]

Also, the foil test is NOT something to look at arbitrarily. You need to squish the tobacco down with the foil until it won't compress any more. Its not moving the foil down to a pre-specified amount below the rim of the bowl using less tobacco. Its not a gauge of height of the tobacco in the bowl, its measuring the density (when its fully compressed) as well as the amount. If you use less tobacco, you will have more problems by squishing it down.

If you approach problems with ANY tobacco with a preconceived notion of how many holes, how much charcoal, how far the tobacco is below the edge of the bowl, how far the water should be over the downstem, you will always have recurring problems. Each factor should be addressed separately. You shouldn't have one fixed variable and then vary several variables around it to get it to work, vary each factor, one at a time (<-Very important) and see what the results are. After 10 years, I arrived at the method I use. I certainly can't say changing charcoal won't upset the apple cart, but I think its a minor factor.