Tangiers Packing

[StreetBob]

I used to use small holes, thinking that it was preventing burning. Then I saw the Tangier videos using large holes... so when I tried finally tried Tangiers, I used a tooth pick instead of a needle. What I experienced was that I needed to keep the holes from getting clogged with ash to prevent burning which tells me that adequate air flow is required to keep heat down, or perhaps from concentrating too much on one area? Edited October 24, 2009 by StreetBob

[JDHarding]

Also, the foil test is NOT something to look at arbitrarily. You need to squish the tobacco down with the foil until it won't compress any more. Its not moving the foil down to a pre-specified amount below the rim of the bowl using less tobacco. Its not a gauge of height of the tobacco in the bowl, its measuring the density (when its fully compressed) as well as the amount. If you use less tobacco, you will have more problems by squishing it down.

If you approach problems with ANY tobacco with a preconceived notion of how many holes, how much charcoal, how far the tobacco is below the edge of the bowl, how far the water should be over the downstem, you will always have recurring problems. Each factor should be addressed separately. You shouldn't have one fixed variable and then vary several variables around it to get it to work, vary each factor, one at a time (<-Very important) and see what the results are. After 10 years, I arrived at the method I use. I certainly can't say changing charcoal won't upset the apple cart, but I think its a minor factor.

Haha.. this is just the method that works for me. When I tried poking holes through all the foil, including the center of the phunnel, the smoke was so thin. I put 3 coals on, a windcover, still very thin. Might work if using 4 or 5 canary coals, but doesn't work with larger coals using less of them. Lots of holes + 3 large coals.. don't work. 4 canarys cover more of the foil, thus more heat across the entirety of the bowl, whereas 3 larger coals don't cover as much area. If I were to put 4 on there, chances are I'd burn the crap out of the Tang.

Thusly, when using 3 large coals on a bowl covered in holes, when pulling you heat up the coals, sure, but not as well as using less holes. So much normal air is getting through 'cause of all those excess holes that do not have coals atop them. So you're just pulling a ton of dead air in. Now if I put a bunch of holes just where the coals were, it'd probably work much better. Not so much dead air.

[JDHarding]

Okay, being the experimental type, I decided to pack my other "new" phunnel with Tang Noir Tropical Punch. I used Eric's hole pattern.. I need to sharpen my Jap hime fork 'cause the tips are dull.. Oyster forks have pointy tips, right? Anyway.. 4.. that's right.. 4! of John's coals on it.. one on each side.. too harsh.. a shitload of smoke, but I can tell I'm burning the crap outta it.. so 1 in each corner, in a "box" shape.. at the beginning, the smoke is thin.. but after sitting a while, the smoke is thicker. Not real harsh, but it is drying out my throat. I figure if I had canarys this would probably work better 'cause John's do burn hotter.

Maybe we should get John into this discussion and ask him what and how many coals he uses on his bowls. I think he uses 4. Maybe 5, I dunno.

Edit: 3 on each side.. still too hot.. 2 on each side.. ah.. perfect. But it took 3 or 4 coals to get the Tang going, so.. but maybe when they shrink, the extra coals will help keep it going. Once they're half the size, they should burn like canarys.

So okay, I was wrong, Eric. It does seem to work, but does require more coals to get started. Edited October 24, 2009 by JDHarding

[JDHarding]

I must be used to the Tang buzz 'cause I'm getting just a tiny buzz. Nak doesn't buzz me anymore either. AF2 sure hits me hard, though. Whoo that stuff's lethal.

[phantastik]

What size bowl are you using? be advised as Eric said that john's coals burn hotter then japanese coals. Also note that Eric in that video/his lounge uses large phunnel bowls, so its kinda required to put that much heat from the 4 coals.

Now if you were on a small phunnel with 4 of john's coals and a windcover, you're craaazy!

[JDHarding]

What size bowl are you using? be advised as Eric said that john's coals burn hotter then japanese coals. Also note that Eric in that video/his lounge uses large phunnel bowls, so its kinda required to put that much heat from the 4 coals.

Now if you were on a small phunnel with 4 of john's coals and a windcover, you're craaazy!

Yep.. small phunnel.

Edit: I'm on 2 with a windcover now. Nice stuff here. Though I think I killed the shisha with those 4 coals. Edited October 24, 2009 by JDHarding

[phantastik]

xD i know whatcha mean, i feel like i'm pushing it with 3 pieces of exoticas on my small.

But glad that you found peace with your tangiers! I honestly think that this "hump" is what turns some people away, but for people who understand it and overcome it... Are addicted to tangiers Edited October 24, 2009 by phantastik

[JDHarding]

xD i know whatcha mean, i feel like i'm pushing it with 3 pieces of exoticas on my small.

But glad that you found peace with your tangiers! I honestly think that this "hump" is what turns some people away, but for people who understand it and overcome it... Are addicted to tangiers

I think my problem with last time I did this hole method is that I didn't use enough heat to start it up.. it seems Tang needs to "warm up" first. So 3 coals and a windcover, or 4 coals, "gets it going". Eric was using a large phunnel, so he could just plop 4 on there and be fine with it. He also had a "warming up" time before he started smoking. Last time I did this I just put 2 on there and it was weak. So 3 or 4 to "wake it up", then 2 to keep it going.

[StreetBob]

xD i know whatcha mean, i feel like i'm pushing it with 3 pieces of exoticas on my small.

But glad that you found peace with your tangiers! I honestly think that this "hump" is what turns some people away, but for people who understand it and overcome it... Are addicted to tangiers

I think my problem with last time I did this hole method is that I didn't use enough heat to start it up.. it seems Tang needs to "warm up" first. So 3 coals and a windcover, or 4 coals, "gets it going". Eric was using a large phunnel, so he could just plop 4 on there and be fine with it. He also had a "warming up" time before he started smoking. Last time I did this I just put 2 on there and it was weak. So 3 or 4 to "wake it up", then 2 to keep it going.

3 canarys on a well packed small phunnel, no wind cover, with lots of toothpick holes. It fires up nicely right away. I learned this from a veteran, and it does work well.

[Arcane]

So don't take everything Eric does too seriously. It works for him, but might not work for us. I believe heavily in the three ring hole pattern with the holes made with a large sewing needle, not a fork or toothpick.

true...i doubt Eric knows much of anything about Tangiers

but, in reality...whichever way works best for you is the best way to pack it...i'm pretty sure thats something we can all agree on..

[JDHarding]

So don't take everything Eric does too seriously. It works for him, but might not work for us. I believe heavily in the three ring hole pattern with the holes made with a large sewing needle, not a fork or toothpick.

true...i doubt Eric knows much of anything about Tangiers

but, in reality...whichever way works best for you is the best way to pack it...i'm pretty sure thats something we can all agree on..

Haha.. I didn't say Eric doesn't know what he's doing.. I said his method might not work for all of us. Not everyone has canary coals. I got away with using John's coals with this method, but it was too much heat.

[redjako]

The denser you pack it, the less heat you need.

I can now use 1/2" piece of exotica's on a medium phunnel (which I bust apart a bit with garden snips) vs before when I'd had 4 x 1/2" pieces of exotica's on the EDGES of the phunnel.

The closer to the center the better smoke / flavor I get.

With Coconara's, I used to use 3 WHOLE pieces on the edges of a medium phunnel.

Now I use 1.5 PIECES of coco nara's in halves, and sometimes just 2.


If you pack it DENSER, then less heat you need with small coals in the center.



I find packing lucid dense sucks though..I'm not sure why, and by dense I mean 3/4" above the rim, and fork packing it, and packing it some more. I just light fluffing it to 1/4" above the rim and packing it down.

[JDHarding]

The denser you pack it, the less heat you need.

I can now use 1/2" piece of exotica's on a medium phunnel (which I bust apart a bit with garden snips) vs before when I'd had 4 x 1/2" pieces of exotica's on the EDGES of the phunnel.

The closer to the center the better smoke / flavor I get.

With Coconara's, I used to use 3 WHOLE pieces on the edges of a medium phunnel.

Now I use 1.5 PIECES of coco nara's in halves, and sometimes just 2.


If you pack it DENSER, then less heat you need with small coals in the center.



I find packing lucid dense sucks though..I'm not sure why, and by dense I mean 3/4" above the rim, and fork packing it, and packing it some more. I just light fluffing it to 1/4" above the rim and packing it down.

3/4" above the rim? I always felt that if the shisha touches the foil, it'll burn the surface.

But again, whatever works for you is what's best for you.

I just sorta combine several methods together for me.. I like Eric's method of packing it, but not scooping it. I don't have enough shisha to scoop, usually, so I just pick chunks of it up and stick it in the bowl. The fork method for packing it down, and I pack it down below the rim like Eric does. I don't check with the foil for how level it is. But I like the 3 ring hole pattern using a needle better than Eric's fork poking method, and better than using a toothpick. I don't like Canary coals, so I use John's natural coals. So again, whatever works for the smoker is the best method for them.

[JDHarding]

Seems my little japanese hime fork does a pretty decent job of making perfectly spaced holes in a ring form.

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So that's pretty cool.. I haven't smoked it yet, but it should be good.

[Sonthert]

I believe the "brain-trust" leans more towards 1 1/2-2 CH coals with lots of large holes. Your imperative that fewer holes make for more airflow is false. There is little to no lateral airflow...the airflow should be mainly vertical. Just believe me and reduce the amount of coals when you use more holes. The "heat-up" period is something you would observe in an underpacked bowl mostly, I believe. The conduction force in an underpacked bowl leans more heavily on the ceramic, the way I pack a bowl, the tobacco has a larger part in the heat transfer. I put coals on and it starts smoking immediately, with better results in three to five minutes or so.

[JDHarding]

I believe the "brain-trust" leans more towards 1 1/2-2 CH coals with lots of large holes. Your imperative that fewer holes make for more airflow is false. There is little to no lateral airflow...the airflow should be mainly vertical. Just believe me and reduce the amount of coals when you use more holes. The "heat-up" period is something you would observe in an underpacked bowl mostly, I believe. The conduction force in an underpacked bowl leans more heavily on the ceramic, the way I pack a bowl, the tobacco has a larger part in the heat transfer. I put coals on and it starts smoking immediately, with better results in three to five minutes or so.

Well I can't fit a whole lot in a small phunnel. It does start smoking right away, just not thickly. The warm-up time seems to thicken it.

[redjako]

Caveat, the "above the rim" is in reference to pre-packing it down with a fork.

[JDHarding]

It seems I'm now poking as many holes as Eric pokes. I use my fork and poke a 4 hole ring around the bowl. I still don't poke in the center, though. But lots of holes! Like.. 50 or so.

[Sonthert]

I use like 120-140 holes.

[Click]

I use like 120-140 holes.

On a large, correct?

[Sonthert]

Yeah.

I guess that could make a difference. Good call, Click.

[destructo]

i use 36 holes on a small. i also just pack it to the rim then level it out. its not a hard pack but its not loose. i found that theres a happy medium. if its packed too hard only the top gets smoked and if its too loose it all burns

[JDHarding]

Yeah.

I guess that could make a difference. Good call, Click.

Yeah, I can only fit 50 on a small..

[Sonthert]

The solution is to get a large bowl, then.

[arzan87]

And , if you have to use quicklites, use the Golden ones. They dont last long, but the amount of heat they produce is somehow perfect for Tangiers!! Whenever I use my AF quicklites, 2 coals split 4 pieces, the shisha burns.
But the Goldens, 2 coals split 2 pieces and then at the very first sign of harshness (45 mins into session) , take off 1 coal and put a windcover on..
BLISS!!