Republicans Support Rape!

[thevoiceofzeke]

Just in case anyone hasn't see this yet:

http://www.republicansforrape.org/legislators/

I think it's kind of astounding that anyone would vote against something like that, but then again I have no idea if that was the only thing included in his amendment. If it is strictly an anti-rape clause...then yeah it's absurd that anyone would vote against it.

It's also pretty funny how the Democrats show just how shameless they are in their media/slander tactics by blowing this out of proportion and attaching a "Republicans are Pro-Rape" slogan to it...kind of like how they're starting to say Republicans support terrorism because they're acting up over the Nobel prize being awarded to Obama.



Personally; vote independent imo. A vote for Republicans or Democrats is a vote for the same damn party.




P.S. I was far too lazy to fully read the rules of this section, so if this in any way violates said rules I will humbly accept my punishment . Edited October 23, 2009 by thevoiceofzeke

[K1024]

at least the website was well done..

[tinyj316]

The Franken amendment, as its known, requires that federal contractors allow their employees the ability to sue the contractor rather than letting them (a la Halliburton) say that only arbitration is allowed for settling disputes.

The amendment isn't a "rape is illegal" amendment per se, but the case that spawned the amendment was a rape case that Halliburton made the female employee go through an arbitration process, rather than letting her press charges.

I agree that the democrats blew the thing out of proportion, but when Senators (Kyl, in particular) say things like she should have no legal recourse other than an arbitration... it definitely paints a picture that can be exploited into saying they are pro-rape.

The amendment essentially takes out the sweetheart clause that so many Republican, capitalist, fascists put in the original wording to protect their own...

EDIT: Grammar

[TheScotsman]

Calling that an anti-rape law is stupid.

One should call it the "every victim can be classified as a prostitute" law.
It was an attempt to allow a victim to dig into the pockets of an employer for an un-proven action made by another employee. I am insulted that franken and the dim-ocraps actually think money can make up for rape. I don't think a woman alive would think money made up for the crime.

The employer, along with any supervisors are guilty of being an accomplice after the fact, and aiding, and abetting in a sexual assault, maybe a bit of tampering and intimidation of a witness. Like they haven't violated enough laws to be prosecuted? Give me a break. What we need are federal prosecutors with some balls, not a BS law that tries to turn a victim into a prostitute ex post facto.

Franken is a moron, and an embarrassment to Minnesota who won with the aid of acorn stuffing the ballot boxes.

[ivana]

Calling that an anti-rape law is stupid.

One should call it the "every victim can be classified as a prostitute" law.
It was an attempt to allow a victim to dig into the pockets of an employer for an un-proven action made by another employee. I am insulted that franken and the dim-ocraps actually think money can make up for rape. I don't think a woman alive would think money made up for the crime.

The employer, along with any supervisors are guilty of being an accomplice after the fact, and aiding, and abetting in a sexual assault, maybe a bit of tampering and intimidation of a witness. Like they haven't violated enough laws to be prosecuted? Give me a break. What we need are federal prosecutors with some balls, not a BS law that tries to turn a victim into a prostitute ex post facto.

Franken is a moron, and an embarrassment to Minnesota who won with the aid of acorn stuffing the ballot boxes.

a woman gets "gang raped" and you classify her as a prostitute? has the entire republican party really stooped this low, or just you?

[Hookie The Hookah]

Calling that an anti-rape law is stupid.

One should call it the "every victim can be classified as a prostitute" law.
It was an attempt to allow a victim to dig into the pockets of an employer for an un-proven action made by another employee. I am insulted that franken and the dim-ocraps actually think money can make up for rape. I don't think a woman alive would think money made up for the crime.

The employer, along with any supervisors are guilty of being an accomplice after the fact, and aiding, and abetting in a sexual assault, maybe a bit of tampering and intimidation of a witness. Like they haven't violated enough laws to be prosecuted? Give me a break. What we need are federal prosecutors with some balls, not a BS law that tries to turn a victim into a prostitute ex post facto.

Franken is a moron, and an embarrassment to Minnesota who won with the aid of acorn stuffing the ballot boxes.

a woman gets "gang raped" and you classify her as a prostitute? has the entire republican party really stooped this low, or just you?

I believe what he was trying to say is that receiving money after getting raped changes the nature of the situation into prostitution. Not quite the same thing.

That said, I don't think I've heard of anything more problematic in my entire life. Here's the thing: YOU WERE NOT RAPED. Until you become a women, go to Iraq, get drugged, gang raped, then held against your will in a shipping container without food, water or medical treatment, you get no say. It's so interesting to me that there are people like you that think that you have some sort of mystical insight here that gives you the right to an opinion. The fact that your (and 30 other senator's) knee-jerk reaction here is to TRY AS HARD AS YOU CAN to justify poo-pooing such an obviously sound piece of legislation is a testament to how totally lacking in self-awareness you and anyone who agrees with this is.

"I am insulted that franken and the dim-ocraps actually think money can make up for rape. I don't think a woman alive would think money made up for the crime."

You do not have any right to tell a rape victim what to do after being raped. If Mrs. Jones had wanted to sue and nothing more, this SHOULD have been her right. Thankfully it will be her right now (appeals courts ruled that she could take KBR to court). It completely boggles my mind that you think you should have the right to offer opinions contrary to rape victims in a situation like this. This has absolutely nothing to do with Al Franken's opinion and everything to do with Jamie Leigh Jones'. Edited October 23, 2009 by Hookie The Hookah

[TheScotsman]

Calling that an anti-rape law is stupid.

One should call it the "every victim can be classified as a prostitute" law.
It was an attempt to allow a victim to dig into the pockets of an employer for an un-proven action made by another employee. I am insulted that franken and the dim-ocraps actually think money can make up for rape. I don't think a woman alive would think money made up for the crime.

The employer, along with any supervisors are guilty of being an accomplice after the fact, and aiding, and abetting in a sexual assault, maybe a bit of tampering and intimidation of a witness. Like they haven't violated enough laws to be prosecuted? Give me a break. What we need are federal prosecutors with some balls, not a BS law that tries to turn a victim into a prostitute ex post facto.

Franken is a moron, and an embarrassment to Minnesota who won with the aid of acorn stuffing the ballot boxes.

a woman gets "gang raped" and you classify her as a prostitute? has the entire republican party really stooped this low, or just you?

This law does nothing at all to prevent assault, prosecute assault, deter assault. It doesn't even make the perp responsible for the assault. It rather shifts the blame to the employer. Now, the last time I checked, while allot of corporations are run by cocks, the company lacks any actual penis to rape anything. (except taxpayers...)

The Obama defense dept (hmmm... he's still a democrat, right?) opposes the title IIV (franken) ammendment.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/19/d...e_n_326569.html

Go reread it, at no point did I say a victim was a prostitute. The amendment turns a violent crime into a civil litigation resulting in money for forced sex. The OBAMA justice dept was willing to side with a KBR and not allow court hearings, but forced it into arbitration. IMNHO this was a crime, and needs a criminal court case against the perp, and the company if they acted against her. It's not a civil case. Unless you are inferring that rape is now a civil crime, the franken bill is pointless.

The US Army dr gave the evidence to KBR! WTH????? That was a case that happened on a government military reservation, and the whole matter should have been handled by CIS, or the FBI, and prosecuted under the uniform code of military justice. Not demeaned by treating it like a workman's comp injury. The New Orleans circuit court sided with KBR, and against a court hearing. That's not a need for yet another law, but a recall of a judge. KBR has a long record of paying off, and supressing sexual assault crimes in it's ranks. Maybe if they had to go into a criminal court after the first one, this woman would not have been drugged and gang raped. Criminal courts have a way of putting an end to violent crimes... a payoff doesn't.

All laws have unintended consequences, my point was that this act sets a standard where an insanely violent crime is not prosecuted as a criminal act, but turned into a money transaction. I want perps of violent crimes in a jail somewhere, not thinking they can rape someone and make them a reluctant prostitute after they get caught, by paying them off. You misinterpreted my point. I want to know why franken wants to not call a rape a criminal offense. I want to know why there is no "must investigate & prosecute" law to protect women working in vulnerable positions overseas.

[Rani]

Calling that an anti-rape law is stupid.

One should call it the "every victim can be classified as a prostitute" law.
It was an attempt to allow a victim to dig into the pockets of an employer for an un-proven action made by another employee. I am insulted that franken and the dim-ocraps actually think money can make up for rape. I don't think a woman alive would think money made up for the crime.

The employer, along with any supervisors are guilty of being an accomplice after the fact, and aiding, and abetting in a sexual assault, maybe a bit of tampering and intimidation of a witness. Like they haven't violated enough laws to be prosecuted? Give me a break. What we need are federal prosecutors with some balls, not a BS law that tries to turn a victim into a prostitute ex post facto.

Franken is a moron, and an embarrassment to Minnesota who won with the aid of acorn stuffing the ballot boxes.

a woman gets "gang raped" and you classify her as a prostitute? has the entire republican party really stooped this low, or just you?

This law does nothing at all to prevent assault, prosecute assault, deter assault. It doesn't even make the perp responsible for the assault. It rather shifts the blame to the employer. Now, the last time I checked, while allot of corporations are run by cocks, the company lacks any actual penis to rape anything. (except taxpayers...)

The Obama defense dept (hmmm... he's still a democrat, right?) opposes the title IIV (franken) ammendment.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/19/d...e_n_326569.html

Go reread it, at no point did I say a victim was a prostitute. The amendment turns a violent crime into a civil litigation resulting in money for forced sex. The OBAMA justice dept was willing to side with a KBR and not allow court hearings, but forced it into arbitration. IMNHO this was a crime, and needs a criminal court case against the perp, and the company if they acted against her. It's not a civil case. Unless you are inferring that rape is now a civil crime, the franken bill is pointless.

The US Army dr gave the evidence to KBR! WTH????? That was a case that happened on a government military reservation, and the whole matter should have been handled by CIS, or the FBI, and prosecuted under the uniform code of military justice. Not demeaned by treating it like a workman's comp injury. The New Orleans circuit court sided with KBR, and against a court hearing. That's not a need for yet another law, but a recall of a judge. KBR has a long record of paying off, and supressing sexual assault crimes in it's ranks. Maybe if they had to go into a criminal court after the first one, this woman would not have been drugged and gang raped. Criminal courts have a way of putting an end to violent crimes... a payoff doesn't.

All laws have unintended consequences, my point was that this act sets a standard where an insanely violent crime is not prosecuted as a criminal act, but turned into a money transaction. I want perps of violent crimes in a jail somewhere, not thinking they can rape someone and make them a reluctant prostitute after they get caught, by paying them off. You misinterpreted my point. I want to know why franken wants to not call a rape a criminal offense. I want to know why there is no "must investigate & prosecute" law to protect women working in vulnerable positions overseas.

Pigs are flying somewhere in the world because I get and agree with what he's saying. If a company aids and abets then that company should be equally criminally liable under the accomplice laws. Hiowever, this is where we may not agree Scotsman, I also believe in civil monetary penalties because corporations are formed specifically to limit liability and protect the owners of said corporations. Sometimes the only way to get retributiion under our existing laws is through monetary penalty. But I still believe you go for the criminal aspect first and then for the civil suit should it be necessary. "Necessary" being determined by the victim. Some victims may be so traumatized they will never again be able to hold down a job again, etc. and if that should be the case, then yes, I believe not only the perpretrator but the company who aided and abetted should be held to the financial extent they can be. If something a company allows through callous disregard changes someones life forever, then they should be paying through the nose for as long as the victims life is diminished.

'Rani

[TheScotsman]

I agree there should be a means to redress civil damages. But that is not what this amendment was for. The amendment was to nulify a part of contract law that required arbitration, rather than civil court. How many times have we seen a binding arbitration end with a sealed settlement? The company paying some hush money, the victim thinking they are going to have to settle for what they can get, hoping for some closure, and living with the damage. The companies are trying to sweep some very frightening events under the rug, and then keep them there with the arbitration clause.

In this case, it really appears that the company took the evidence, and ran to the nearest trash can. Their (KBR's) actions destroyed the chain of evidence, then suddenly started transferring suspects out of the area, and generally stood in the way of justice. Liable for damages? You bet... let me sit on that jury! I really think there needs to be a significant $$ loss to KBR as a result of their willful actions. Does that mean we need some poser-law? hardly, we have the laws needed to prosecute the perverts, and compensate the damages. What we need are officials willing to uphold the obligations of their office. http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/16/jones-sue-kbr/ Now that court needs to see a few recall letters!

At any point the 5th ckt judge could have nullified the clause, and set the case for court. Franken's proposal just said the gov't would not award contracts to companies abusing arbitration clauses. Do we really believe in this era of no-bid contracts that anyone would ever let that stand in the way of the next billion dollar KBR contract? What was completely offensive was the tactic of trying to paint the repubs that opposed the bill as supporting rape... all the while not mentioning that the president's own DOD was opposing it!

I guess my views are skewed by having been a prime contractor. There is too much of a mentality that they (KBR/Blackwater/insert any name) are above the laws of the nation they are in, and out of the reach of US criminal law enforcement. There is a real attitude that the companies can pay-off, intimidate, and cover up about anything they want to. It seems to be working.

KBR... Hmmm... I remember this fine company. There is allot of blood on their hands, they really need to go away!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/30/ira...ions/index.html CID had found the company guilty of negligent homicide as a result. (After this they got a 30 million + contract for doing more electrical work?!?!? Is that insane?)

It was Kellogg that held her in a CONEX box with no medical services... not the rapists. Ya, that company needs to pay, but I want to see it in an open courtroom. I would like to see the companies actions open for the public to learn about. There was a lady named Tracy (can't remember last, too lazy to look it up) that was sexuallly assaulted by a state dept translator while working for Kellogg, Ali Moktare (spelling??) Ya, again the state dept declined prosecution. Ah, hell... I hate to hijack the thread, but here is a bit on her case. http://news.justia.com/cases/featured/texa...cv00294/103216/ Notice #17, and 18. That nice SEIU (you know, the union so supporting Obama!) is trying to get her case against Kellogg dismissed. Nice to see that SEIU supports the rape of it's own members, isn't it? Oh, and KBR locked this lady in her qtrs after she tried to report it too... I think we have a pattern of abuse that a 1st year assistant DA could win.) and Ali Moktare still is employed, walking free.

About 460 Kellog Brown & Root employees have been killed working for the company, They were charged with human trafficking, negligent homicide, fraud... now they want to operate for-profit prisons in the USA??!?!?

[Sonthert]

At the risk of falling one direction or another here, rape is a crime. As well it should be. It was traditionally in this country a misdemeanor, it has been elevated to a felony. This is fine, too.

What bothers me is the attitude that somehow monetary damages or prison time can make a situation better. It can't. The asshole goes to prison, as well he should. That should be the end of it. The idea that jail or prison time is for rehabilitation or retribution is absurd. Their sentence is something they owe society, not a solace to the victim. At some point, people make mistakes, sometimes really dumb ones. They pay their debt to society by going to prison. They can never repay their debt to the person they harmed. As my grandmother used to say "If money can fix the problem, it ain't worth worrying about." True. Its true here, too. If money can't fix the problem...why are you dragging rapist back into court? If it can...why is it a problem?

I really dislike this theme running through society of litigation-happy people. I think that criminal penalties should be handed out rather than civil penalties in these types of cases.

[thevoiceofzeke]

Calling that an anti-rape law is stupid.

One should call it the "every victim can be classified as a prostitute" law.
It was an attempt to allow a victim to dig into the pockets of an employer for an un-proven action made by another employee. I am insulted that franken and the dim-ocraps actually think money can make up for rape. I don't think a woman alive would think money made up for the crime.

The employer, along with any supervisors are guilty of being an accomplice after the fact, and aiding, and abetting in a sexual assault, maybe a bit of tampering and intimidation of a witness. Like they haven't violated enough laws to be prosecuted? Give me a break. What we need are federal prosecutors with some balls, not a BS law that tries to turn a victim into a prostitute ex post facto.

Franken is a moron, and an embarrassment to Minnesota who won with the aid of acorn stuffing the ballot boxes.

a woman gets "gang raped" and you classify her as a prostitute? has the entire republican party really stooped this low, or just you?

It's the entire party...buncha capitalist crazies in it only for their own self-interest.