Racism

[r8rfan121]

Hey everyone, First off, before you get reading, I want to make clear I am not a racist, in any way, shape or form. But I think "racism" is often mistaken. I'm not sure of the right wording for what i am thinking of, but it comes down to how somebody presents themself. For instance, If I were a store owner, and an African American came in wearing slacks and a button up shirt that fit, and right behind him came in a cacausian of the same age, but wearing sagging pants and overly sized shirt, I would keep an eye on the caucasian person because they looked more shady. But if the they switched dress and I were to watch the African American, i'd be considered a racist or be accused of racial profiling. I think America needs to understand, that the way you present yourself is going to be the way people look at you. I guess I just don't understand how so many people immediately jump to racism as the prime motive without looking at any other factors. I am not saying racism is not still around, i'm not ignorant enough to truly believe that, But i do believe that it may not be as evident as everyone thinks it is.

Now having had said that, I do believe that in our quest to eliminate racism, that we've created racist laws or precedents. As is the case with Affirmative Action. If at any time, anything is judged by race, is that not racism? If an african american is hired because the agency or corporation that is hiring them needs minorities, isn't that a form of racism? Especially when there is somebody more qualified. I believe this not only goes for racism, but also for sexism. If a woman is chosen based on the fact they are a woman is that not sexist, isn't that the very thing we were trying to eliminate?`

I just think that if we want a truly equal playing field for all people, we need to eliminate things like affirmative action, and colleges need to get rid of scholarships based solely on race, sex, sexual orientation, or any other factor that eliminates people that cannot change.

This is just my short little thought after reading Rani's post. Please share with me you thoughts on this and provide reasons as too why

[ryno]

I've been trying to find a way to say this forever. Its not that I don't like people because they are of a certain race, if you look shady, I'm going to think you're shady. I agree with you on how people are dressed and carry themselves is how they will be judged. Another problem with racism is, some people fit the stereotype so perfect, how can one think any other way?

[Rani]

Affirmative Action was always an uncomfortable subject for me. There was a time in our history when it was necessary in order to to enforce desegration in the workplace and university. My last long time employer, for example, was clear in that he preferred a certain race and he certainly didn't like women in any position above clerical. It's unlikely he would have hired mnorities or women were it not for Affirmative Action so it did serve it's purpose - at the time. However it was always intended to be eliminated when it became nothing more than a legacy. Many protested that it was eliminated too soon, but I don't think that was the case. I would think it should have been eliminated as it was before it became completely redundant. Otherwise how would a minority candidate ever know for certain that they'd received the job based on merit rather than some quota? Those born after the civil rights movement and the death of Affirmative Action will I think be more likely to be nondiscriminatory because those events will no longer be a part of their internal unconscious. Yet we still have class standards haunting us. We assume the way someone dresses, or acts when out in public is the whole of who they are, and that's not necessarily the case. If you see a middle aged man skipping down the street in Small Town America wearing angel wings and carrying a fairy wand tapping people on the head as he passes them, most would assume he's crazy and watch him carefully for violent action. In Hollywood he's assumed to be a performance artist or bohemian. I have a friend many people think is oh so strange because of the way he dresses and how he seems very shady in his interaction with others. He has a mild form of autism and his affect is due entirely to his autism.

So I think the answer is for all of us to observe (not watch like a beat cop with his hand on his gun) without judgement and maybe we all learn something. However, whether we're ready for that or not in our society is another debatable point considering actions around the country and across the world. Maybe it's going to take at least another hundred years before we can observe without jumping to judgement and leaping to the conclusion that we're about to be the victim of anyone who's not exactly like us.

'Rani

[Rani]

By the way, if by replying I'm in any way stealing or directing your thunder I sincerely apologize. I't's one of the subjects close to my heart and I have a hard time keeping quiet about it.....

'Rani

[r8rfan121]

Affirmative Action was always an uncomfortable subject for me. There was a time in our history when it was necessary in order to to enforce desegration in the workplace and university. My last long time employer, for example, was clear in that he preferred a certain race and he certainly didn't like women in any position above clerical. It's unlikely he would have hired mnorities or women were it not for Affirmative Action so it did serve it's purpose - at the time. However it was always intended to be eliminated when it became nothing more than a legacy. Many protested that it was eliminated too soon, but I don't think that was the case. I would think it should have been eliminated as it was before it became completely redundant. Otherwise how would a minority candidate ever know for certain that they'd received the job based on merit rather than some quota? Those born after the civil rights movement and the death of Affirmative Action will I think be more likely to be nondiscriminatory because those events will no longer be a part of their internal unconscious. Yet we still have class standards haunting us. We assume the way someone dresses, or acts when out in public is the whole of who they are, and that's not necessarily the case. If you see a middle aged man skipping down the street in Small Town America wearing angel wings and carrying a fairy wand tapping people on the head as he passes them, most would assume he's crazy and watch him carefully for violent action. In Hollywood he's assumed to be a performance artist or bohemian. I have a friend many people think is oh so strange because of the way he dresses and how he seems very shady in his interaction with others. He has a mild form of autism and his affect is due entirely to his autism.

So I think the answer is for all of us to observe (not watch like a beat cop with his hand on his gun) without judgement and maybe we all learn something. However, whether we're ready for that or not in our society is another debatable point considering actions around the country and across the world. Maybe it's going to take at least another hundred years before we can observe without jumping to judgement and leaping to the conclusion that we're about to be the victim of anyone who's not exactly like us.

'Rani

I agree with you that at the time it was first started, it was essential. But I think the negative standard it has set will live for a while. And when I say negative I'm talking about the way it has almost just switched racism and/or sexism around, so that it is more accepting to decline a white male a job for a minority employee, and the employer will not have to worry about being sued and being accused of being a racist or a sexist.
I also believe that it will take many generations before we see this issue clear up, because even people in my generation, (i'm about to turn 20) still see issues as easily being turned racist/sexist.
And as far as judging people upon meeting them, I'm afraid thats just part of human nature, and the unfortunate events that have happened to our nation, and to our society, will only make it worse.But I'm kind of mixed on the issue. When we try to figure out the links between criminals and potential criminals, it does a lot of harm for the innocent people that aren't like that. For instance, we look at the shooters of tragedy's like columbine, v-tech, von maur, and many others like it, it helps us figure out who is more likely to do that, but it also drives a wedge between people who are loners and depressed and the rest of society. And the reason I'm split on this is because, I don't like seeing innocent people getting hurt, whether it be the innocent people like your friend, who are harmless but happen to fall under the same qualifications as other people who have done things, or the innocent people that have been harmed by those that "slipped through the cracks" and ended up hurting people. I see criminal profiling being essential in the protection of our daily lives, and in individual people being able to spot a potential criminal.
Maybe we as a society need to become less sensitive. I'm in the marine corp reserves and went through boot camp last winter. I look at the experiences i had there and the ones had by marines in the "old corp". boot camp wasn't a walk in the park, by any means, but it wasn't the same as it had been in the old days, it's become softer and gentler. And i see that happening in our society as a whole. Between poliitical correctness and our fear of offending someone. We've become ready to sue at the slightest thing and are willing to complain if things aren't exactly as we think they should be. I believe that our society has come a long way, and that to a certain extent, its great. But on the other hand, it's bad. That's the exact reason why we have politicians that think they can tell us how to live, where to smoke, and what to eat. We need to find a balance, a middle ground between the blunt reality of our past and the overly sensitive way's of today.

Ryno- I've been searching for a phrase to describe this for a while, and still can not come up with one, but i'm glad that i'm not alone in my beliefs

And Rani- This thread was meant to stray away from just the stuff I first posted. Because all of these issues cannot be solved on their own, In order for us to understand the problem and change it, we must look at all the issues that accompany it. If by the time this thread die's, we are talking about abortion or gun rights or even whether or not t.v is evil, as long as people have thought about these things, and looked deeper at the issues and our society as a whole, and figured out for themselves, or at least thought about it, then I will feel like I've accomplished something, because its exactly like what you said on your thread, "Everything we say, someone hears. Everything we write, someone reads. Everything we do somehow changes some portion of the world whether the tiny piece in our immediate vicinity or the greater world at large. It's important we recognize the power of our words and make the conscious choice to change the world in a positive way". I just hope that this thread, does that, and even if it doesn't, I'll be able to sleep easier tonight knowing that I tried, even if it was to a group of strangers on a hookah forum, I'll know that I said what I believed needed to be said. And I encourage this entire forum to try the same, to voice their opinion of an issue that affects our nation to people so that maybe it will land on the ear's of our lawmakers and polititcians, so that we might be able to advance our nation. And btw, all of these issues get me passionate, so I understand your passion, and I as well have a hard time keeping quite about it, I only wish I could have radio talk show, then maybe I could be the next Limbaugh

[Stuie]

Here's some things that have always bothered me.

African American is a racist term not black, the way I see it. Black is a descriptive of skin tone not a racial term. African American has come to me people of black skin tone. What about the South African Dutch that are white, or the Egyptians.

La Raza - The Race... seriously a Spanish Racial Pride Group. Sounds like the KKK to me.

I don't know how it is everywhere else but it seems that here in Texas only people that are white can be racist. Everyone else is just making up for oppression that I had nothing to do with.

[ryno]

Here's some things that have always bothered me.

African American is a racist term not black, the way I see it. Black is a descriptive of skin tone not a racial term. African American has come to me people of black skin tone. What about the South African Dutch that are white, or the Egyptians.

La Raza - The Race... seriously a Spanish Racial Pride Group. Sounds like the KKK to me.

I don't know how it is everywhere else but it seems that here in Texas only people that are white can be racist. Everyone else is just making up for oppression that I had nothing to do with.

Couldn't agree more. If you're a majority, it seems like others view you as racist. If you're a minority, I think its hard to be seen as a racist.

[NIGHTS OF BAGHDAD]

i agree with you stuie..im sick of the taboo that has been put on the color..you are who you are..there are no american hispanics, there are no american middle easterners, there are no american asians..your eiter white,black,hispanic,asian,middle eastern..etc

[Tyler]

I got denied a scholarship because I was white and the other person was black, yet my GPA was .8 higher, my GRE score was 450 points higher, and I actually completed the courses they said were required, he was missing two, but they gave it to him because they wanted to show "diversity in their award." I'm all for diversity, but when one person was clearly more qualified and the other didn't make the so called requirements, fuck that.

[NIGHTS OF BAGHDAD]

I got denied a scholarship because I was white and the other person was black, yet my GPA was .8 higher, my GRE score was 450 points higher, and I actually completed the courses they said were required, he was missing two, but they gave it to him because they wanted to show "diversity in their award." I'm all for diversity, but when one person was clearly more qualified and the other didn't make the so called requirements, fuck that.

damn thats fucked up..i guarantee you if that happened to anyone else other then white there would be picketing and it be all over the news and on larry king live..certain races of people seem to have less rights has life goes on..where is the equality

[r8rfan121]

I got denied a scholarship because I was white and the other person was black, yet my GPA was .8 higher, my GRE score was 450 points higher, and I actually completed the courses they said were required, he was missing two, but they gave it to him because they wanted to show "diversity in their award." I'm all for diversity, but when one person was clearly more qualified and the other didn't make the so called requirements, fuck that.

damn thats fucked up..i guarantee you if that happened to anyone else other then white there would be picketing and it be all over the news and on larry king live..certain races of people seem to have less rights has life goes on..where is the equality

The equality was thrown out the window in our search for it. It went from equality for all to minority superiority. It's the same thing with official government documents being printed in spanish. We have never done this for any other group of people coming here. The irish, italians, czech, germans, or any other group. We never adopted their language but now we're racist if we don't because it doesnt provide latino's an even playing field. But what it's doing is forcing everyone else to learn their language or that person will be the one out of a job.

[judgeposer]

About racial/ethnic labels or categories like "African-American," I too find them often troubling and rather imprecise. On government forms I've seen lately, some distinguish Hispanic between Hispanic of African decent and non-African decent. Of course, those who select Hispanic of African decent look visibly similar to African-Americans. As as someone pointed out, what of those whites from Africa, or anyone not otherwise "black" who come from Africa, a continent more diverse (due to immigration and colonization) than we appreciate.

As someone belonging to more than one group on many of those forms, I sometimes find myself in a bind about what to select, especially when the form directs me to "pick one." I happily stick to "person," or "man of color" as easily as I do "black," but hardly ever present myself as "African-American," to others (except when filing out forms and such), despite my African slave ancestry. In the end, however, I don't know that this matters much. Even in my short life (I'm 29), I've seen the change in racial labels, and predict that through our lives we will continue to see these labels and categories change as our society gets acquainted or acknowledges those who defy our present categories. I think our society grapples endlessly with redefining these categories in an effort to be as precise as our abilities allow.

About Affirmative Action, I believe no matter how "necessary" righting the wrong of discrimination was (and some contend still is), I don't think it's constitutional. Of course for generations our Supreme Court had sanctioned these measures, except for late, as we now see their inevitable demise. While AA can be credited for the increase of black professionals, I don't think this necessarily validates to the regime's success. Blacks, as a group, still suffer from gross inequalities--disproportionately representing the convicted, uneducated, and the economically disadvantaged. Whether government/the law should correct these inequities is, I think, the center of the debate, along with whether it can do so legally. To answer that, I don't think the Constitution allows for it, but, then again, the Supreme Court did for a generation give the AA regime the legitimacy it required.

As a matter of social policy, leaving aside the question of legality (Constitutionality), I happen to agree with the likes of Thomas Sowell, a black economics professor at Stanford's Hoover Institution. His research shows that AA tended to benefit the already elite members of the groups the regime was intended to benefit widely. In other words the greatest beneficiaries of the AA regime happened to be wealthy or at least middle-class blacks. The regime also produces a net loss for society because it reduces incentives for everyone. For beneficiaries because they simply don't have to do "as much" to achieve and for non-beneficiaries because their achievement is often futile. Extending that some, I think the regime can reinforce racial bigotry or at least a racially-overly-sensitive society because minority achievement will forever be questioned, and non-minority achievement will forever be comparatively undervalued. However noble the goals of the AA regime and its defenders were, in the end, it did little to answer the deeper problems affecting the minority communities of our society, particularly in the case of black Americans, who, as a group, continue to suffer disproportionately in the areas of education, health, and criminal justice.

[ilikemyusername]

I got denied a scholarship because I was white and the other person was black, yet my GPA was .8 higher, my GRE score was 450 points higher, and I actually completed the courses they said were required, he was missing two, but they gave it to him because they wanted to show "diversity in their award." I'm all for diversity, but when one person was clearly more qualified and the other didn't make the so called requirements, fuck that.

whaoah , thats fucked.

[Charley]

I am not sure where I am even trying to go with this post so bear with me if I don't tie everything together for the most part im just posting random thoughts on this subject.

I believe everyone is equal regardless of skin, sex, sexual orientation,and creed.

it dumbfounds me that others cant see this simple truth.

and my views are self imposed there something that just made seance to me all my life. I grew up in a very racist place and even at 6 years old I couldn't understand how ppl could be so misguided.
my own father thought all black ppl were thieves and tried to teach me to believe the same but what he said just never clicked.

however as a society i think we are becoming unintentional racist.
at work, in restaurants, even in movie theaters most Americans go out of there way to not be racist.
example the local movie theater will kick anyone out who is talking during a movie unless that person is black. they are told by management not to because it could be viewed as a "racist act".
that in its self is racist in my book.

we all need to look past the exterior and learn to only see the interior.

the world would just be a better place if everyone smoked hookah.

[Arcane]

r8, i don't think you're actually talking about racism in your original example. what you are doing is pre-judging (prejudice) that person based on appearance.

i think a lot of people get racism, prejudice and stereotyping confused....

i know my appearance doesn't always match my personality...i mean, i think if half the people on these forums that "know" me...saw me in person, they wouldn't think i was the same person.

i make it a point not to judge people by appearance...its not until you open your mouth or do something stupid/intelligent that i start to form my opinions about you.

[Majid]

I believe affirmative action is still needed simply because prejudice is alive and kicking far more than people believe. There's penty of scientific evidence for this and beside that most people would have to admit it to themselves that they either have it in them or have seen/heard it in action. If people are equally qualified why not make the comfortable and easy choice, the man that looks and sounds like you, and, excuse me, puts his penis in women just like you do/want to do. It is a form of leveling the playing field rather than skewing it

[Stuie]

Majid, I want to respectfully disagree with you, but I maybe too naive in my thinking but....

Affirmative action would put someone in a position to be filled that has a non white skin tone or twig and berries. Putting myself in that situation... If they wouldn't have chose me in the first place, do I even want to work there. Will the work environment be hostile towards me because I was hired over someone not because of qualifications but of gender or race? Would my work be judged on it's merit, or just looked as something to prove? Honestly I don't know anyone personally that has been hired because of affirmative action so, These are truly legitimate questions for me.

Granted I am the monster politicians worn you about: White, Texan, Christian, Gun Owner.

I could say yeah their are a racists in Texas, but they tend to live and breed in trailer parks and rarely own businesses.... See I guess I am prejudice too.



I believe there will always be prejudice and preconceived notions.

Anyone that says they aren't prejudice, i don't believe them:

Two Bank Teller Windows are open. One has a smoking hot teller with a low cut blouse. The other looks like Ugly Betty.

Guys which teller do you step up to? Isn't that Prejudice.


But as a society I would like to think we are moving away from racism and gender bias in all forms. Prejudice might always be because of our experiences, but I would like to think also that as a society we would grow to limit those as well.

[jezter6]

Meh, I think the whole thing is over-hyped.

So long as people aren't out killing each other over it, so be it. Let people dislike who they want to dislike. People have been at war of the differences between us since the dawn of time, and it's not going to change. Even in the middle east people hate each other over stupid differences. But if Jim down the street wants to hate someone else because they're black, because they're poor, because they like extra pickles on their Quarter Pounder - why should any of us care? So long as he's not out killing people, it's his business and he can answer to a higher power (or not if one doesn't happen to exist) for his beliefs. We (humans, mostly Americans) have way too many better things to do than poke into everyone else's business and tell them how they must think about everything. Yet it's all over the place - people telling each other HOW to think.


As for stereotyping, I've said my thing on that in the past, but I'll say it again. Stereotypes are that way for a reason. Nobody runs around associating hookah smokers with spiky blond hair and blue eyes because you just don't see it all that often. However, you get thousands of spiky blond hair blue eyed kids smoking hookah in every city - it becomes a stereotype. And then, if you DONT have spiky blond hair and blue eyes, you just blame everyone for stereotyping people.

White trash get the stereotype rep because -- we've ALL seen it. (hell, they're on TV all the time) Same with many stereotypes of other groups.

[Rani]

Meh, I think the whole thing is over-hyped.

So long as people aren't out killing each other over it, so be it. Let people dislike who they want to dislike. People have been at war of the differences between us since the dawn of time, and it's not going to change. Even in the middle east people hate each other over stupid differences. But if Jim down the street wants to hate someone else because they're black, because they're poor, because they like extra pickles on their Quarter Pounder - why should any of us care? So long as he's not out killing people, it's his business and he can answer to a higher power (or not if one doesn't happen to exist) for his beliefs. We (humans, mostly Americans) have way too many better things to do than poke into everyone else's business and tell them how they must think about everything. Yet it's all over the place - people telling each other HOW to think.


As for stereotyping, I've said my thing on that in the past, but I'll say it again. Stereotypes are that way for a reason. Nobody runs around associating hookah smokers with spiky blond hair and blue eyes because you just don't see it all that often. However, you get thousands of spiky blond hair blue eyed kids smoking hookah in every city - it becomes a stereotype. And then, if you DONT have spiky blond hair and blue eyes, you just blame everyone for stereotyping people.

White trash get the stereotype rep because -- we've ALL seen it. (hell, they're on TV all the time) Same with many stereotypes of other groups.

My problem with sterotypes (and other issues like racism) is that it's so limiting. It limits who someone is if they buy into the sterotype. It limits us by our rejection of anything that's outside our comfort zone. Your assumption that we shouldn't care is incredibly invalid. I'm turning into a humanist and activist but I have zero desire to tell people what to think. What I would like to do is though thought and logic give them reason to quit limiting themselves and those they impose their stereotypical view upon. Because people often live up or down to the view we imposed on them. The only way we're going to improve as a species is after those stereotypes and racism, etc. are long dead.

'Rani

[Arcane]

yeah, i hate when people see me and think i'm some thug or just apt to fight or whatever preceived notion they have...i would rather have them get to know me and see that i'm a pretty calm and caring person....

if they can't, i'll smash their faces in with their own fist....



hahaha...^joke^

[jezter6]

My problem with sterotypes (and other issues like racism) is that it's so limiting. It limits who someone is if they buy into the sterotype. It limits us by our rejection of anything that's outside our comfort zone. Your assumption that we shouldn't care is incredibly invalid. I'm turning into a humanist and activist but I have zero desire to tell people what to think. What I would like to do is though thought and logic give them reason to quit limiting themselves and those they impose their stereotypical view upon. Because people often live up or down to the view we imposed on them. The only way we're going to improve as a species is after those stereotypes and racism, etc. are long dead.

'Rani

So it's limiting? If I think a douche wearing his pants down around his ass is a douche, then what's it harm him any? If you LIKE that kind of stuff, then you're thinking it's ok, but the rest of us are allowed to have a dissenting opinion.

Your whole quote smacks of PC, and it's high time we stop farting around the PC train and start letting people live. You can't in one breath say you have no desire to tell people what to think, but then you're talking about training them to think the way YOU want to think.

If people live down to the view imposed on them, it's their own fault. If you want to wear some baggy jeans and a Ecko Unltd shirt to a professional job interview, by all means, nobody's limiting you...but if you don't get a job because you look like a dumbass, don't just up and expect everyone to accept that kind of dress in an interview.

The only way we're going to improve as a species is to stop fucking with each other and stop telling everyone how they should act and how they should think. Your freedom to look and act like a fucktard gives me the same freedom to think you're a fucktard. If you start taking away my ability to think people are fucktards, then you damn well need to equal that out with improving the overal levels of fucktardism in this world.

As for stereotyping, they're stereotypes because they're TRUE. They happen every day, you see them all the time, it's HOW it becomes a stereotype. I don't get how wrong it is to call a duck a duck if a duck happens to walk around looking like a duck and acting like a duck. You can't force people to call it a "Duckling American" any more than you can call it a chicken.

[Rani]

My problem with sterotypes (and other issues like racism) is that it's so limiting. It limits who someone is if they buy into the sterotype. It limits us by our rejection of anything that's outside our comfort zone. Your assumption that we shouldn't care is incredibly invalid. I'm turning into a humanist and activist but I have zero desire to tell people what to think. What I would like to do is though thought and logic give them reason to quit limiting themselves and those they impose their stereotypical view upon. Because people often live up or down to the view we imposed on them. The only way we're going to improve as a species is after those stereotypes and racism, etc. are long dead.

'Rani

So it's limiting? If I think a douche wearing his pants down around his ass is a douche, then what's it harm him any? If you LIKE that kind of stuff, then you're thinking it's ok, but the rest of us are allowed to have a dissenting opinion.

Your whole quote smacks of PC, and it's high time we stop farting around the PC train and start letting people live. You can't in one breath say you have no desire to tell people what to think, but then you're talking about training them to think the way YOU want to think.

If people live down to the view imposed on them, it's their own fault. If you want to wear some baggy jeans and a Ecko Unltd shirt to a professional job interview, by all means, nobody's limiting you...but if you don't get a job because you look like a dumbass, don't just up and expect everyone to accept that kind of dress in an interview.

The only way we're going to improve as a species is to stop fucking with each other and stop telling everyone how they should act and how they should think. Your freedom to look and act like a fucktard gives me the same freedom to think you're a fucktard. If you start taking away my ability to think people are fucktards, then you damn well need to equal that out with improving the overal levels of fucktardism in this world.

As for stereotyping, they're stereotypes because they're TRUE. They happen every day, you see them all the time, it's HOW it becomes a stereotype. I don't get how wrong it is to call a duck a duck if a duck happens to walk around looking like a duck and acting like a duck. You can't force people to call it a "Duckling American" any more than you can call it a chicken.

So stereotypes are true? Gee, wonder where I left my braids and eagle feathers and alcoholism?

'Rani

[r8rfan121]

r8, i don't think you're actually talking about racism in your original example. what you are doing is pre-judging (prejudice) that person based on appearance.

i think a lot of people get racism, prejudice and stereotyping confused....

i know my appearance doesn't always match my personality...i mean, i think if half the people on these forums that "know" me...saw me in person, they wouldn't think i was the same person.

i make it a point not to judge people by appearance...its not until you open your mouth or do something stupid/intelligent that i start to form my opinions about you.

You are absolutely right. It is actually pre-judging i'm talking about, but the problem is, that pre-judging often goes with stereotypes based on race, i.e A black guy with a doo rag and sagging pants, and a giant fake earing, trying to rap and act like a thug, but the second you treat him as a thug, its racism. And because these all mix together, people just instantly jump on the racism card, and That's the problem I have.

[NIGHTS OF BAGHDAD]

would anyone here say its wrong and racial to judge there opinion on someone by how they dress and represent themselves?

[r8rfan121]

would anyone here say its wrong and racial to judge there opinion on someone by how they dress and represent themselves?

I don't think anybody on THIS forum would say that, but i guarantee you that the rev. Jesse Jackson would, as would the NAACP and BET, just about any college professor who teaches black studies classes and several other left wing folks I know of. and thats the issue, because these yahoo's influence government, laws, and politics. They convince us of this horseshit. I know my posts on this thread have turned a little bit more rant-like, but its because i'm sick of this bullshit.