My Hellos

[RingsMaster]

"I seriously doubt tobacco will ever be illegal (even though it should probably be Schedule I )."

well think again, flavored tobacco has already been banned in some places, including here

camel is working on a new recipe for their signature line so they can continue to produce them, no real flavoring but something else im not really too sure, but when there is a law someone will try to get around it.

[VorFan]

"My question is, what else do people use NH devices for?"

as i said in my post, there are tons of perfectly legal herbs that can be smoked out of a NHT.

My only point, is that you cant condemn a NHT devide simply because some people use them for illegal substances. Thats not what its meant for, and using that argument is gonna come back to bite us because people (with little knowledge of hookahs) will turn around and use that logic against hookahs.

[McLovin600]

seems like things are moving more toward legalization rather than "banning all devices used for it". just a thought

[ih303]

"I seriously doubt tobacco will ever be illegal (even though it should probably be Schedule I )."

well think again, flavored tobacco has already been banned in some places, including here

The FDA ban targets cigarettes and cigarette tobacco specifically.

[ilikemyusername]

Personally i see a swing started that I honestly believe will leave us in a situation where NHT is legal, and tobacco products will be illegal. Try seeing what many of you wrote if you switch the perception of which product is legal and which isn't.

funny, I was on a similar line of thought earlier today but figured I'd never get an opportunity to express it on hookah forum.

[joytron]

Ban on Apple Pipes!!!

[Charley]

ok most of the ppl here are not saying the devices should be illegal. what most are saying is that is what most ppl will use them for and unfortunately that is what most ppl think hookah is for too. we want to try to keep them separate so ppl will stop judging out of ignorance instead of fact.

the truth is most ppl see our hookahs and they judge us as criminals simply because they do not understand. we live outside there culture by choice. but since they know nothing about us or what we do they judge based on the only thing they know. given this fact of life we try to keep the two separate so we can educate those who would judge us. that is why the rules are in place on this msb and that is why most of us will not order from a site that openly supports the use of nht. it is not because we are against it its just we dont want to be judged as a whole for something only a some of us do.

I myself support many things but i dont want to be judged by the words or actions of other who support them I want to be judged by my own merits. I support the right to bear arms that dose not mean I want Charlton Heston speaking for me. I support some politicians and dislike others that dose not mean I want Rush Limbah speaking for me. and yes I support the medical use of nht but I do not want some Cheetos stained slacker with "migraines" speaking on my behalf.

[Chreees]

Wow... how did this thread shift from the OP to now talking about legalization of NHT devices?

[liquidglass]

see, somethingi dont agree with is being completely against NHT pipes.

The argument that there "illegal" pipes is based completely on the fact that some people use them to break the law, and you could use the same justification with hookahs, which could in turn be used to try and ban hookahs.

The fact is that they are completely legal to buy and own, as long as you dont use it to take NHT from.

I dunno, just my opinion.

We are not against the devices, we are against the confusion and the generalization when people lump hookahs into the group with the use of NHT.

No one is saying anything should be legal/illegal as far as I can tell everything has the subtext of hookah being separated, but I could be wrong lol.
And honestly, I wasn't trying to start anything by disagreeing with your logic (or perhaps just a mis-stated line of thought) I was just tired and giving an opinion.

Overall, welcome to the forum and hope you enjoy!

[McLovin600]

WELCOME TO HOOKAH FORUM!!!!!

[NIGHTS OF BAGHDAD]

maybe you guys should create a new thread for this topic instead of giving neals thread so much attention and making him more popular? i mean it doesnt even have anything to do about him anymore..it had very little to do with him in the first place..lol

[Chreees]

^x2

[VorFan]

unfortunately that is what most ppl think hookah is for too

yes! That is exactly my point!

The ban of anything, whether it be of cig tobacco, NHT pipes, WHATEVER, i see as a step in the WRONG direction.

[VorFan]

I disagree with you. Your logic (IMHO) is flawed. You said in an earlier post that we shouldn't be against NH devices because "some people use them for it" Then you try to parallel that logic to hookahs. My question is, what else do people use NH devices for? Certainly not decoration and certainly not shisha.

See, i think that that logic absolutely does transfer over to hookahs, of course not by the people who have any knowledge of hookahs whatsoever, but by the lawmakers.

As i said before, how many lawmakers do you suspect have a hookah in there house?

We in the hookah community know that the majority of hookahs are not used for drugs. But i doubt that a lawmaker would look at a hookah and think of it as anything other than a drug pipe.
And the ban of anything in that field is a step in the wrong direction

[liquidglass]

I disagree with you. Your logic (IMHO) is flawed. You said in an earlier post that we shouldn't be against NH devices because "some people use them for it" Then you try to parallel that logic to hookahs. My question is, what else do people use NH devices for? Certainly not decoration and certainly not shisha.

See, i think that that logic absolutely does transfer over to hookahs, of course not by the people who have any knowledge of hookahs whatsoever, but by the lawmakers.

As i said before, how many lawmakers do you suspect have a hookah in there house?

We in the hookah community know that the majority of hookahs are not used for drugs. But i doubt that a lawmaker would look at a hookah and think of it as anything other than a drug pipe.
And the ban of anything in that field is a step in the wrong direction

I think you're missing the point entirely.

You stated "SOME people use NH devices for NHT" when the fact is Most if not ALL do. Where as the exact opposite is true for hookahs. I'm not speaking of law makers I'm talking about your direct logic and statements.

And as far as I know no one said anything about banning one thing or the other (besides the people that somehow got on the slippery slope argument) We only talked about the clear separation of the two. And eliminating the connotation.

I know I certainly didn't, so don't use my comments out of context to prove an irrelevant point.
I'm not trying to be harsh, so if you take it that way, I apologize.

[Chreees]

Man this thread got sour and way off-topic from the original post real fast...

Glad to see it got edited. Well, somewhat edited... atleast the title anyway...

[VorFan]

SOME people use NH devices for NHT" when the fact is Most if not ALL do

but see that is a very large assumption. I owned a NHT that i most certainly didnt use for anything illegal. And you see, lawmakers will look at hookahs with a large misconception that they are drug pipes, in the same exact way that you just assume that NHT pipes are ALL used for drugs. You cant make assumptions like that, when assumtions that big are made it leads to peoples rights being taken away.

And i think your missing MY point entirely.

My point is that once we head in the direction of banning anything related to smoking (whether it be a nht, cigs, cigars, whatever) i think that its headed towards the ban of hookahs because of the pre-conceived notion that it is a drug pipe.


I am most definitely NOT defending the use of illicit substances, i just think that once you ban a pice of plastic, or glass, based entirely on a pre-conceived notion you have, that its heading us in the wrong direction, and hookahs will most definitely be on that path.
And you have to realize that im not talking about people with common sense, im talking about law makers!

[liquidglass]

SOME people use NH devices for NHT" when the fact is Most if not ALL do

but see that is a very large assumption. I owned a NHT that i most certainly didnt use for anything illegal. And you see, lawmakers will look at hookahs with a large misconception that they are drug pipes, in the same exact way that you just assume that NHT pipes are ALL used for drugs. You cant make assumptions like that, when assumtions that big are made it leads to peoples rights being taken away.

And i think your missing MY point entirely.

My point is that once we head in the direction of banning anything related to smoking (whether it be a nht, cigs, cigars, whatever) i think that its headed towards the ban of hookahs because of the pre-conceived notion that it is a drug pipe.


I am most definitely NOT defending the use of illicit substances, i just think that once you ban a pice of plastic, or glass, based entirely on a pre-conceived notion you have, that its heading us in the wrong direction, and hookahs will most definitely be on that path.
And you have to realize that im not talking about people with common sense, im talking about law makers!

A few posts back I said most NH devices were used for NHT not all. (although I did make a statement that could possible be skewed to contradict it, so I apologize about the confusion) However, you are breaking your own rule by the assumption they are not used for NHT. You and a select few others are some of the few people who use the devices for other things. If you look at the percentage of the population that believes hookahs are used for illicit purposes it should be clear where that knowledge spawns from.

But I will see if I can find statistics to back up my claims.

My point was to discuss your assumption your other points were irrelevant to me. That's why I asked for my comments not to be used out of context.

And I agree about the lawmakers, idiots lol

[Chiefin]

Here's my logic based on experience: Nice NHT devices are expensive...like $200+. -----> Thus, most people who smoke NHT, have small and/or cheap devices. -----> Hardly no one buys a small or cheap NHT device for decoration. The vast majority of people buying NHT devices, use them for NHT. The primary consumer population of NHT users are broke-ass high-school and college kids with a lot of time and not a lot of responsibility.

Most people I have met who have hookahs, have shitty knock-offs in which they mix NHT and shisha. It's a sad truth. Most head-shops in Austin have both hookahs and NHT devices sitting right next to each other. The insinuation in cases like this, is that both items are sold concurrently for NHT purposes, instead of the tobacco NHT distinction.

This site is designed for people who are passionate about finding new hookahs and tobaccos and troubleshooting/sharing experiences. It's a segment of people who for the most part, steer away from putting NHT in their hookahs. Do people here use NHT? I'm sure. However, a lot of people here have had experiences where police have stopped or harassed them and confiscated their hookahs, which had nothing but tobacco in them. The point is, people here make that distinction between hookahs and NHT devices, because the public does not.

In regards to Neal, in any business, you are accountable for the image associated with you based on what you sell. Wal-Mart doesn't sell parental advisory CDs for this reason. His image, aside from being a dick, is that he concurrently advocates NHT and hookah...in fact he has multiple site names with NHT references which link directly to his site. It's guys like him who are the reason that I can't light up a hookah in a park without getting harassed.

What if this site allowed NHT discussions to be integrated? All of those punk-ass knock-off owning, NHT tobacco mixing clowns would be over here flooding the place with mindless dribble about whether their $200 NHT device gets them higher than NHT out of their hookah. Stupid...and I don't care. Edited November 14, 2009 by Chiefin

[ilikemyusername]

sounds about right, wecome to the forum!
by the way we as a group have a huge influence on the hookah situation in the U.S. so if you want to send free stuff to the guys with the purple under thier pictures... that'd be okay.

Bullshit.

and did you just call me a sheep fucker?

[NIGHTS OF BAGHDAD]

sounds about right, wecome to the forum!
by the way we as a group have a huge influence on the hookah situation in the U.S. so if you want to send free stuff to the guys with the purple under thier pictures... that'd be okay.

Bullshit.

and did you just call me a sheep fucker?

honestly, being called a sheep fucker is not the bad ugly thing it used to be before the internet craze..its a acceptable thing now..in some places a compliment..i say go with it bro..