Missed This Article.

[mushrat]

http://heraldsun.com/pages/full_story/push...f+freedom+lost+

[frost91]

sorry to hear that mush. Its retarded that they are trying to close your business. i know that the new healthcare reform is gonna screw over every doctor out there as well. No drug companies will want to produce any more new drugs, due to the fact they are being paid the same without doing so. This govt take over is gonna be the end to the american dream

[mint]

That's awful :/ the lounge I work at here in Akron was closed down for a while because of the smoking ban but reopened after going to court for a second time because it didn't fall under the cig ban and something about vaporization with hookahs that you don't get with cigs. Hell, there's actually a hookah lounge in Kent that still allows people to smoke cigs indoors because it was grandfathered in after the law.

[RingsMaster]

That's awful :/ the lounge I work at here in Akron was closed down for a while because of the smoking ban but reopened after going to court for a second time because it didn't fall under the cig ban and something about vaporization with hookahs that you don't get with cigs. Hell, there's actually a hookah lounge in Kent that still allows people to smoke cigs indoors because it was grandfathered in after the law.

i think if mush can afford it and if it is a good idea with him to take whoever he needs to to court, you have the right to have a legitimate business. dont let them try to shut you down, dont even give them a chance

[r1v3th3ad]

wow

[Stuie]

i have said before and I will say it again... Damn, Government.

[Hippo_Master]

That is absolutely and completely fucking retarded! It's now illegal to OWN a hookah bar?? What are those assholes thinking? Are smoke shops next?

Mush, maybe you should open a cigar bar in a back area, or outside under a canopy with a shit load of heaters and call it a cigar lounge. It doesn't matter is people smoke there, it's just the fact that it exists. Most people just want a warm place to smoke a cigar in the winter anyway.

[mattarios2]

Damn, Damn, Damn

[Chreees]

Damn. Keep up the fight Mushy!

[liquidglass]

While this article seems disheartening I find it motivational as people are taking notice of you Mush and what's going on with you. I realize until we get this retarded shit straightened out that we'll have to find a loophole in it.

[Hookie The Hookah]

sorry to hear that mush. Its retarded that they are trying to close your business. i know that the new healthcare reform is gonna screw over every doctor out there as well. No drug companies will want to produce any more new drugs, due to the fact they are being paid the same without doing so. This govt take over is gonna be the end to the american dream

My, what a realistic perception of reality you have there....

[no longer welcome]

i don't know why govt is hassling tax paying businesses.

[Majid]

Would it be possible to pool money together with the 11 other lounge owners in the state and take it to court? There's probably more unlisted lounges that could help.

[antouwan]

all government does is take away freedoms. granted, i don't think anyone should have the 'freedom' to walk outside and shoot the first person he sees but my point is simply, when was the last time you recalled the government passing a law that gave you a freedom?

[Click]

I'm still saddened to hear NC assembly is being for the lack of a better word, douche bags.  On a positive side, at least you are getting regional media attention that can hopefully sway opinions to your side.

Good luck.

[hookah hippie]

If you don't fit into the perfect painting of white those with money like to see you will eventually be uprooted

Sorry to hear about your misfortune mush good luck and don't go down without a fight

[ilikemyusername]

well written article.

[ih303]

all government does is take away freedoms. granted, i don't think anyone should have the 'freedom' to walk outside and shoot the first person he sees but my point is simply, when was the last time you recalled the government passing a law that gave you a freedom?

It's not that the government is in the business of taking away freedoms, per se, they're in the business of deciding whose freedoms are more important. Unfortunately, the freedoms of the wealthy and the whiners take precedence over those of everyone else.

It brings up an interesting question. Most of these anti-smoking innitiatives are fought on the grounds of public health, right? So is this really an issue of public health or is it just another case of loud-mouthed conservatives trying to force their way of life onto everyone else?

[mushrat]

all government does is take away freedoms. granted, i don't think anyone should have the 'freedom' to walk outside and shoot the first person he sees but my point is simply, when was the last time you recalled the government passing a law that gave you a freedom?

It's not that the government is in the business of taking away freedoms, per se, they're in the business of deciding whose freedoms are more important. Unfortunately, the freedoms of the wealthy and the whiners take precedence over those of everyone else.

It brings up an interesting question. Most of these anti-smoking innitiatives are fought on the grounds of public health, right? So is this really an issue of public health or is it just another case of loud-mouthed conservatives trying to force their way of life onto everyone else?

In this case, it's both.

We are planning a court fight in January. More to come.

Thanks for the support guys and gals.

[Barnaby]

all government does is take away freedoms. granted, i don't think anyone should have the 'freedom' to walk outside and shoot the first person he sees but my point is simply, when was the last time you recalled the government passing a law that gave you a freedom?

It's not that the government is in the business of taking away freedoms, per se, they're in the business of deciding whose freedoms are more important. Unfortunately, the freedoms of the wealthy and the whiners take precedence over those of everyone else.

It brings up an interesting question. Most of these anti-smoking innitiatives are fought on the grounds of public health, right? So is this really an issue of public health or is it just another case of loud-mouthed conservatives trying to force their way of life onto everyone else?

I think its more of a problem with old, out of touch law makers getting together to try and fix a problem they don't fully understand. While I fully agree that restaurants should be non smoking, as being a non smoker, the last thing I want myself, my wife, and my 2 kids to experience is someone puffing away a fucking cancer stick, while we're trying to eat. IF they had a closed, ventilated room for the smokers, that's cool as long as it worked and I didn't smell it..

But on that same token, if I go to a hookah bar, tobacco store, cigar shop, etc.. I FULLY expect to be in a closed room with smoke.. period.. Those are the points of those establishments, and as such its completely asanine to force a ban in these circumstances..

Now, like I said.. The majority of the people making these laws, probably don't even know what a hookah is.. So, why make the exception.. They see it as a restaurant, that you can smoke in.. Not a tobacco orientated establishment...

Can't wait until all these old ass bastards in government die off so we can get some younger blood that maybe would be slightly more educated.

[mushrat]

all government does is take away freedoms. granted, i don't think anyone should have the 'freedom' to walk outside and shoot the first person he sees but my point is simply, when was the last time you recalled the government passing a law that gave you a freedom?

It's not that the government is in the business of taking away freedoms, per se, they're in the business of deciding whose freedoms are more important. Unfortunately, the freedoms of the wealthy and the whiners take precedence over those of everyone else.

It brings up an interesting question. Most of these anti-smoking innitiatives are fought on the grounds of public health, right? So is this really an issue of public health or is it just another case of loud-mouthed conservatives trying to force their way of life onto everyone else?

I think its more of a problem with old, out of touch law makers getting together to try and fix a problem they don't fully understand. While I fully agree that restaurants should be non smoking, as being a non smoker, the last thing I want myself, my wife, and my 2 kids to experience is someone puffing away a fucking cancer stick, while we're trying to eat. IF they had a closed, ventilated room for the smokers, that's cool as long as it worked and I didn't smell it..

But on that same token, if I go to a hookah bar, tobacco store, cigar shop, etc.. I FULLY expect to be in a closed room with smoke.. period.. Those are the points of those establishments, and as such its completely asanine to force a ban in these circumstances..

Now, like I said.. The majority of the people making these laws, probably don't even know what a hookah is.. So, why make the exception.. They see it as a restaurant, that you can smoke in.. Not a tobacco orientated establishment...

Can't wait until all these old ass bastards in government die off so we can get some younger blood that maybe would be slightly more educated.

so, who drags you and the wife and kids to a restaurant that allows smoking? Im sure you were forced to go to that place where you expose your kids to smoke right? I mean, if you really were bothered by it you wouldn't take them to a place that has smoking.

OR is it a matter of you wanting to tell the owner of the place how to run their business?? I get really tired of hearign people who voluntarily expose themselves and their kids to smoke by going to a restaurant that allows smoking and then bitch about being exposed to the smoke. If you don't want to be around cigarette smoke while you eat, DON'T GO TO THAT RESTAURANT! simple and it doesn't try to push your will on the guy/gal who has put their time and effort into opening and running a business.

I'm sure there are smoke free places you can take the family to, spend your money there. If the owner of a place that does allow smoking sees their income falling as people go someplace smoke free then let THEM decide to go smoke free as well. If they are doign enough business with people who some or don't mind being around smoke them let them continue to do business the way THEY want to. People who go to a business they know allows smokign are just like people who go to a hookah or cigar bar. They are making an informed choice. So instead of saying you think its ok to ban smoking in bars or restaurants because you dont want to be exposed to it or expose your kids....just don't go there!

[ih303]

Mush, have you considered becoming a "private club for members"? The wording in the South Dakotan smoking ban specifies smoking in public places. A private club would not be public, would it?

[Barnaby]

all government does is take away freedoms. granted, i don't think anyone should have the 'freedom' to walk outside and shoot the first person he sees but my point is simply, when was the last time you recalled the government passing a law that gave you a freedom?

It's not that the government is in the business of taking away freedoms, per se, they're in the business of deciding whose freedoms are more important. Unfortunately, the freedoms of the wealthy and the whiners take precedence over those of everyone else.

It brings up an interesting question. Most of these anti-smoking innitiatives are fought on the grounds of public health, right? So is this really an issue of public health or is it just another case of loud-mouthed conservatives trying to force their way of life onto everyone else?

I think its more of a problem with old, out of touch law makers getting together to try and fix a problem they don't fully understand. While I fully agree that restaurants should be non smoking, as being a non smoker, the last thing I want myself, my wife, and my 2 kids to experience is someone puffing away a fucking cancer stick, while we're trying to eat. IF they had a closed, ventilated room for the smokers, that's cool as long as it worked and I didn't smell it..

But on that same token, if I go to a hookah bar, tobacco store, cigar shop, etc.. I FULLY expect to be in a closed room with smoke.. period.. Those are the points of those establishments, and as such its completely asanine to force a ban in these circumstances..

Now, like I said.. The majority of the people making these laws, probably don't even know what a hookah is.. So, why make the exception.. They see it as a restaurant, that you can smoke in.. Not a tobacco orientated establishment...

Can't wait until all these old ass bastards in government die off so we can get some younger blood that maybe would be slightly more educated.

so, who drags you and the wife and kids to a restaurant that allows smoking? Im sure you were forced to go to that place where you expose your kids to smoke right? I mean, if you really were bothered by it you wouldn't take them to a place that has smoking.

OR is it a matter of you wanting to tell the owner of the place how to run their business?? I get really tired of hearign people who voluntarily expose themselves and their kids to smoke by going to a restaurant that allows smoking and then bitch about being exposed to the smoke. If you don't want to be around cigarette smoke while you eat, DON'T GO TO THAT RESTAURANT! simple and it doesn't try to push your will on the guy/gal who has put their time and effort into opening and running a business.

I'm sure there are smoke free places you can take the family to, spend your money there. If the owner of a place that does allow smoking sees their income falling as people go someplace smoke free then let THEM decide to go smoke free as well. If they are doign enough business with people who some or don't mind being around smoke them let them continue to do business the way THEY want to. People who go to a business they know allows smokign are just like people who go to a hookah or cigar bar. They are making an informed choice. So instead of saying you think its ok to ban smoking in bars or restaurants because you dont want to be exposed to it or expose your kids....just don't go there!

I'm in Virginia. Every restaurant allows smoking, except for fast food restaurants. And I'm not talking about individually owned restaurants. This is in all the chains too. There is simply not an option to get food, that doesn't expose you to smoking, save maybe 3 privately owned restaurants. I go to those restaurants more often obviously, but is it right that I'm forced to go to a total of 3 restaurants that are completely non smoking in my area?

You go to a restaurant to eat food. Smoking is a private choice, but once you light up in an enclosed area that includes people who do not share the same life choices as you, it ceases to be a private choice, doesn't it? I'm all about individual freedom. I don't give a shit what you do, as long as it does not harm others. If you light up in a restaurant, where not everyone is a smoker, then you are forcing someone to partake in your personal choice. On the flip side, is there harm being done on the smoker by not letting them smoke inside a place that has mixed company of smokers/non smoker? Are they being mistreated? Generally I'd say yes, as you are telling someone what they can and cannot do. But because smoking a cigarette is not something that can be contained, and invades other peoples personal space, then I then so no. More harm is done by letting a smoker light up in an place with non smokers, vs not letting them. They can go outside after they're done, and light up. They are being "harmed" less than the non smoker having to sit around them inhaling that nasty shit when they don't want to.

[Sin on Sunday]

i understand why they make laws preventing people from smoking cigarettes/cigars in a restaurant or a bar because other patrons there that dont smoke don't want exposure to 2nd hand smoke and the smell, etc. but when your business is based around smoking and EVERYONE there goes there FOR the smoking, i don't see why the gov't gives two rat shits about it. they are trying to "protect" people from something that they don't want protection from!

[Arcane]

I'm in Virginia. Every restaurant allows smoking, except for fast food restaurants. And I'm not talking about individually owned restaurants. This is in all the chains too. There is simply not an option to get food, that doesn't expose you to smoking, save maybe 3 privately owned restaurants. I go to those restaurants more often obviously, but is it right that I'm forced to go to a total of 3 restaurants that are completely non smoking in my area?

You go to a restaurant to eat food. Smoking is a private choice, but once you light up in an enclosed area that includes people who do not share the same life choices as you, it ceases to be a private choice, doesn't it? I'm all about individual freedom. I don't give a shit what you do, as long as it does not harm others. If you light up in a restaurant, where not everyone is a smoker, then you are forcing someone to partake in your personal choice. On the flip side, is there harm being done on the smoker by not letting them smoke inside a place that has mixed company of smokers/non smoker? Are they being mistreated? Generally I'd say yes, as you are telling someone what they can and cannot do. But because smoking a cigarette is not something that can be contained, and invades other peoples personal space, then I then so no. More harm is done by letting a smoker light up in an place with non smokers, vs not letting them. They can go outside after they're done, and light up. They are being "harmed" less than the non smoker having to sit around them inhaling that nasty shit when they don't want to.

so is it right to tell someone how to run their business? chain or not...maybe, the owner has considered the lost revenue if non-smokers decided not eat at their establishment. maybe they'd rather serve people who tolerate smoking while eating than those that won't...they sacrificed their time, effort, and money to get a business running how they see fit. who are you to tell them how to run it? did you help start that restaurant? how much money did you invest in startup costs?

and why try to get government to dictate how someone should run THEIR OWN business? instead, why not tell your community to open restaurants that don't allow smoking? Edited November 18, 2009 by Arcane