Something Falsely Reported. False Information

[Brandon`]

Sorry for the topic it might make the the topic look so much more interested then it is lol but my son is in 9th grade and he recently brought home a packet for parents about NHT and Alcohol and how to keep it away from kids.

Well I was reading the tobacco section and how to keep kids away from smoking and I see that there was a section about Hookah and most of the things on there were false. Can't I do something about it? Report them or take it further?

Here is exactly what is written on the paper.

Hookah: Water-pipe or hookah smoking is known b various names including narghile, aggileh, and shisha. The hookah is showing up on resturant menus, and hookah bars and cafes seem to be springing up everywhere in the United STates, incluiding in our own communities. Smoking with a hookah may seem safer because the tobacco is falvered with fruit and molasses, making it less harsh than smoking a cigarette.

The Truth:

1. Carbon monoxide concentrations found in the blood of water-pipe smokers has been found tobe 8.4 times the levels in cigarette smokers.

2. Nicotine content in water-pipe tobacco is higher than found in cigarettes. 100 Puffs = 1 pack of cigarettes

3. Concentrations of cancer-causing and addictive substances in tobacco blends smoked in water pipes are higher than those found in cigarettes. [b]There is 36 times the amount of tar found in a cigarette.
[/b]
4. Water does not filter the harmful ingredients.


That's all they had on the paper but I know this information is false because i'm pretty sure the nicotine isn't even close to 1 pack of cigarettes unless ur smoking make some Desi Murli. I'm close to 100% sure that also shisha contains [b]NO [/b]tar at all.

Let me know what you guys think and if I could be wrong but I want to report it if it's wrong and i'm right.

[Rani]

[quote name='Brandon`' date='15 December 2009 - 08:54 PM' timestamp='1260939289' post='439492']
Sorry for the topic it might make the the topic look so much more interested then it is lol but my son is in 9th grade and he recently brought home a packet for parents about NHT and Alcohol and how to keep it away from kids.

Well I was reading the tobacco section and how to keep kids away from smoking and I see that there was a section about Hookah and most of the things on there were false. Can't I do something about it? Report them or take it further?

Here is exactly what is written on the paper.

Hookah: Water-pipe or hookah smoking is known b various names including narghile, aggileh, and shisha. The hookah is showing up on resturant menus, and hookah bars and cafes seem to be springing up everywhere in the United STates, incluiding in our own communities. Smoking with a hookah may seem safer because the tobacco is falvered with fruit and molasses, making it less harsh than smoking a cigarette.

The Truth:

1. Carbon monoxide concentrations found in the blood of water-pipe smokers has been found tobe 8.4 times the levels in cigarette smokers.

2. Nicotine content in water-pipe tobacco is higher than found in cigarettes. 100 Puffs = 1 pack of cigarettes

3. Concentrations of cancer-causing and addictive substances in tobacco blends smoked in water pipes are higher than those found in cigarettes. [b]There is 36 times the amount of tar found in a cigarette.
[/b]
4. Water does not filter the harmful ingredients.


That's all they had on the paper but I know this information is false because i'm pretty sure the nicotine isn't even close to 1 pack of cigarettes unless ur smoking make some Desi Murli. I'm close to 100% sure that also shisha contains [b]NO [/b]tar at all.

Let me know what you guys think and if I could be wrong but I want to report it if it's wrong and i'm right.
[/quote]

Start by demaning they send you the source of their information. If they can't provide the scientific data to support their assertions, then you have the right to demand they be removed until such time as they can support their statements. If they do provide data, then you can start finding counter arguments for each piece of data they give you. For instance Test at Lab A showing nicotine of X parts per bowl, but you can go looking for a report from Lab B showing entirely different results.

'Rani

[Zinite]

[size=2]If you can present yourself well, do the following:

Schedule an appointment with the school principal to discuss the flyer. Dress in business attire. Print out the following: [/size][font="Calibri"][url="http://www.jnrbm.com/content/5/1/17"][size=2]http://www.jnrbm.com/content/5/1/17[/size][/url][size=2]. Be very polite, and let them know that you want a retraction printed. Tell them that using scare tactics to dissuade kids from smoking doesn't work. Tell them that while you agree that hookah is a dangerous past time, kids should not be fed false information.[/size][/font]

[Pretender85]

I would mention something about it..maybe pull up some reports proving otherwise.
1 2 and 3 are a load of crap for sure, dunno about 4..but still. making 1 true point buried in lies tends to make 1 big pile of garbage. Then again that seems to be how our entire country works..take a minor problem, scare the crap out of people about it so they don't do it just because a few people don't want them to.

[Codename067]

Wait guys, I got a better idea.



I got a few baseball bats laying around...

[Chaz1337]

[quote name='Codename067' date='16 December 2009 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1260940265' post='439502']
Wait guys, I got a better idea.



I got a few baseball bats laying around...
[/quote]

I like where this is going.. : ) Edited December 16, 2009 by Chaz1337

[Chreees]

Yeah, you just need to politely tell them their info's wrong and demand it be changed so they're not lying anymore.

[inino]

I would just forget about it honestly. Their propaganda has gotten them no where so far in both cigarettes and hookah as far as minors are concerned. Most people know the health risks and either dont care or dont believe it. I mean when I was in high school nobody said they didnt smoke because a pamphlet told them not to. Also grown folks believe alot of things that arent really true because of scare tactics or repetitive mental conditioning.

[delSol_si]

[quote name='Zinite' date='15 December 2009 - 11:03 PM' timestamp='1260939795' post='439496']
[size="2"]If you can present yourself well, do the following:

Schedule an appointment with the school principal to discuss the flyer. Dress in business attire. Print out the following: [/size][font="Calibri"][url="http://www.jnrbm.com/content/5/1/17"][size="2"]http://www.jnrbm.com/content/5/1/17[/size][/url][size="2"]. Be very polite, and let them know that you want a retraction printed. Tell them that using scare tactics to dissuade kids from smoking doesn't work. Tell them that while you agree that hookah is a dangerous past time, kids should not be fed false information.[/size][/font]
[/quote]

you get a +1 on that, sir


Zinite is right, you gotta be completely respectful and need hard evidence to back yourself up. Simply saying "oh, i know this is wrong because I smoke hookah" or "i know this is wrong because i heard it on hookahforum.com" will not get you anywhere. also, zinite has the right idea on making sure you acknowledge that hookah smoking IS DANGEROUS is a good idea. i wouldn't say "it is less dangerous than xxxx" though unless you have specific evidence to back yourself up.

Oh, and one way to fight against them claiming that the water doesn't filter anything out....take you hookah into their office, bring a pitcher of water from their water fountain in the hall, pour the water into you hookah, smoke it for a few minutes, then hand them the vase and ask them to drink it....i think that should get the point across pretty easily

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Chaz1337' date='15 December 2009 - 11:28 PM' timestamp='1260941325' post='439510']
[quote name='Codename067' date='16 December 2009 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1260940265' post='439502']
Wait guys, I got a better idea.



I got a few baseball bats laying around...
[/quote]

I like where this is going.. : )
[/quote]

My kind of diplomacy.
Aim for the kidneys

[ashes87]

[quote name='delSol_si' date='15 December 2009 - 11:54 PM' timestamp='1260942860' post='439520']
Oh, and one way to fight against them claiming that the water doesn't filter anything out....take you hookah into their office, bring a pitcher of water from their water fountain in the hall, pour the water into you hookah, smoke it for a few minutes, then hand them the vase and ask them to drink it....i think that should get the point across pretty easily
[/quote]


+1 for suggesting that. I dont think anyone would drink the water out of the vase.

[blagage]

All these suggestions and valid arguements. But Brandon... will you do it??! for hookah smokers everywhere. The fate of our species rests solely on your shoulders.

[Brandon`]

Lol Blagage, your making it seem like if I don't make the right decsion, the world will end

[Can-O-War]

[quote name='Brandon`' date='15 December 2009 - 09:54 PM' timestamp='1260939289' post='439492']
Sorry for the topic it might make the the topic look so much more interested then it is lol but my son is in 9th grade and he recently brought home a packet for parents about NHT and Alcohol and how to keep it away from kids.

Well I was reading the tobacco section and how to keep kids away from smoking and I see that there was a section about Hookah and most of the things on there were false. Can't I do something about it? Report them or take it further?

Here is exactly what is written on the paper.

Hookah: Water-pipe or hookah smoking is known b various names including narghile, aggileh, and shisha. The hookah is showing up on resturant menus, and hookah bars and cafes seem to be springing up everywhere in the United STates, incluiding in our own communities. Smoking with a hookah may seem safer because the tobacco is falvered with fruit and molasses, making it less harsh than smoking a cigarette.

The Truth:

1. Carbon monoxide concentrations found in the blood of water-pipe smokers has been found tobe 8.4 times the levels in cigarette smokers.

2. Nicotine content in water-pipe tobacco is higher than found in cigarettes. 100 Puffs = 1 pack of cigarettes

3. Concentrations of cancer-causing and addictive substances in tobacco blends smoked in water pipes are higher than those found in cigarettes. [b]There is 36 times the amount of tar found in a cigarette.
[/b]
4. Water does not filter the harmful ingredients.


That's all they had on the paper but I know this information is false because i'm pretty sure the nicotine isn't even close to 1 pack of cigarettes unless ur smoking make some Desi Murli. I'm close to 100% sure that also shisha contains [b]NO [/b]tar at all.

Let me know what you guys think and if I could be wrong but I want to report it if it's wrong and i'm right.
[/quote]

There is little to no tar in any tobacco, shisha, or cigarettes. Tar is created when the tobacco is smoked. Any product that promotes their product by saying it has no tar is tying to lure in suckers and health nazi's. (Note: my source was an internet article i read about a year ago, and this info could be wrong or outdated. Determine the validity for yourselves, Cheers!)

[Stuie]

[quote name='Brandon`' date='16 December 2009 - 08:27 AM' timestamp='1260973671' post='439575']
Lol Blagage, your making it seem like if I don't make the right decsion, the world will end
[/quote]

how do you know it won't?

[Vladimir]

Tar is created by burning tobacco, so yes Hookah will contain some tar- whether the water filters all or any of it is the question.

[Brandon`]

[quote name='Stuie' date='16 December 2009 - 10:14 AM' timestamp='1260976483' post='439581']
[quote name='Brandon`' date='16 December 2009 - 08:27 AM' timestamp='1260973671' post='439575']
Lol Blagage, your making it seem like if I don't make the right decsion, the world will end [img]http://www.hookahforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif[/img]
[/quote]

how do you know it won't?
[/quote]


Shit your right, Grab your hookahs and RUN!!!

[joytron]

God forbid someone tries to keep kids from smoking!

[Stuie]

[quote name='joytron' date='16 December 2009 - 10:43 AM' timestamp='1260981834' post='439605']
God forbid someone tries to keep kids from smoking!
[/quote]

That's not the point.

It's using false information as fact.

[shalowlow]

[quote name='joytron' date='16 December 2009 - 08:43 AM' timestamp='1260981834' post='439605']
God forbid someone tries to keep kids from smoking!
[/quote]

+1000000000000000000000000000000000


You guys are really talking about speaking to a principal about a flyer that he sent out about sheesha, because you think it has wrong information? looooool. You guys all seem to have an inferiority complex about your sheesha smoking.....oh nooooes! he said that sheesha is not healthy! They must be wrong because I smoked yesterday and didn't die!

You guys have all been killing me lately. Of course a young kid should not be smoking. Who cares if it's scare tactics? We really don't know the health effects of sheesha. There are just too many variables. We really don't even know what is in most of the tobacco we smoke. Different coals have different emissions. Different tobacco's have different levels of nicotine. If you're burning your sheesha, maybe you ARE smoking tar....you don't REALLY know do you? Stop trying to rationalize its effects on your health. In the end, you are taking a risk by smoking anything.

Brandon....if you go speak to the principal based on his sending out a flyer about kids not smoking sheesha....your gonna look like an idiot. Suit or not. Edited December 16, 2009 by shalowlow

[jeremyk]

[quote name='Stuie' date='16 December 2009 - 09:46 AM' timestamp='1260981988' post='439606']
[quote name='joytron' date='16 December 2009 - 10:43 AM' timestamp='1260981834' post='439605']
God forbid someone tries to keep kids from smoking!
[/quote]

That's not the point.

It's using false information as fact.
[/quote]
its called using factual errors and scare tactics. stuie being from texas like me you may know that this is exactly how that teach sex ed in texas.
i would go to the school board and that present them with facts but be professinal about it

[Teissenb]

There is most certainly tar in waterpipe/hookah smoke. This fact has been demonstrated in several rigorous scientific studies by Dr. Alan Shihadeh at the American University of Beirut but it is also demonstrated through simple logic: in the U.S., tobacco smoke "tar" is legally defined as "nicotine-free, dry, particulate matter" so anything in the smoke that is not nicotine (nicotine-free) and is not water (dry) and IS a particulate, is "tar". Please believe this fact! The labeling on the boxes that says Tar = 0.0% is TRUE b ut also MISLEADING: there is no "tar" in the box because there is no smoke in the box. Once there is smoke, there is tar!

Relative to a *single* cigarette (~5 minutes of smoking), a single waterpipe use episode (~45 minutes of smoking) exposes the user to ~3 times the carbon monoxide, 1.7 times the nicotine, and 48 times the smoke. See Eissenberg and Shihadeh, 2009:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19944918?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=1

Besides the CO and nicotine, the smoke from a waterpipe/hookah also contains cancer-causing polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, lung-disease causing volatile aldehydes, and a variety of heavy metals.

That link is only the ABSTRACT. The whole paper is available to you from any medical library.

[Stuie]

[quote name='jeremyk' date='16 December 2009 - 12:58 PM' timestamp='1260989915' post='439629']
[quote name='Stuie' date='16 December 2009 - 09:46 AM' timestamp='1260981988' post='439606']
[quote name='joytron' date='16 December 2009 - 10:43 AM' timestamp='1260981834' post='439605']
God forbid someone tries to keep kids from smoking!
[/quote]

That's not the point.

It's using false information as fact.
[/quote]
its called using factual errors and scare tactics. stuie being from texas like me you may know that this is exactly how that teach sex ed in texas.
i would go to the school board and that present them with facts but be professinal about it



[/quote]


OH God yes... first day slide show of STDs.... like the worse cases they could find... some of them still haunt my dreams.

[Zinite]

[quote name='shalowlow' date='16 December 2009 - 11:33 AM' timestamp='1260988439' post='439623']
[quote name='joytron' date='16 December 2009 - 08:43 AM' timestamp='1260981834' post='439605']
God forbid someone tries to keep kids from smoking!
[/quote]

+1000000000000000000000000000000000


You guys are really talking about speaking to a principal about a flyer that he sent out about sheesha, because you think it has wrong information? looooool. You guys all seem to have an inferiority complex about your sheesha smoking.....oh nooooes! he said that sheesha is not healthy! They must be wrong because I smoked yesterday and didn't die!

You guys have all been killing me lately. Of course a young kid should not be smoking. Who cares if it's scare tactics? We really don't know the health effects of sheesha. There are just too many variables. We really don't even know what is in most of the tobacco we smoke. Different coals have different emissions. Different tobacco's have different levels of nicotine. If you're burning your sheesha, maybe you ARE smoking tar....you don't REALLY know do you? Stop trying to rationalize its effects on your health. In the end, you are taking a risk by smoking anything.

Brandon....if you go speak to the principal based on his sending out a flyer about kids not smoking sheesha....your gonna look like an idiot. Suit or not.
[/quote]


By all means, teach kids about the dangers of smoking. Show them pictures of nasty lungs, and holes in throats. Just make sure that you're not equating cigarette smoking to hookah smoking. They are different beasts, with different dangers. If you're going to dissuade someone from doing something, do it correctly. Use facts and logic to dissuade, not lies and fear.

No one is saying that smoking shisha is healthy. We all recognize the risks - we just want them related in an honest manner. All of the figures they are using in this flyer are probably from the WHO study, which has been shown to be completely false. Here is their logic:

One cigarette = x liters of smoke/gas inhaled.
One hookah session = 500x liters of smoke/gas inhaled.

Therefore, hookah is 500x more harmful than cigarettes.

That's like saying:
One cigarette = x liters of smoke/gas inhaled.
One human per day = 10000x liters of oxygen inhaled.

Therefore, breathing oxygen is 10000 times more harmful than cigarettes.

If you want kids to grow up as intelligent people, teach them to look at the facts and decide for themselves, in any situation. Otherwise they are parroting what other people are saying. It's just like abstinence education. Teaching to fear sex doesn't stop kids from having unsafe sex. In fact, every peer reviewed study about abstinence education [b]ever[/b] has shown that it has the opposite effect. Teaching kids the realistic dangers of sex, and how to have safe sex has been shown as the more effective way.

[Rani]

[quote name='Zinite' date='16 December 2009 - 12:53 PM' timestamp='1260996804' post='439648']
By all means, teach kids about the dangers of smoking. Show them pictures of nasty lungs, and holes in throats. Just make sure that you're not equating cigarette smoking to hookah smoking. They are different beasts, with different dangers. If you're going to dissuade someone from doing something, do it correctly. Use facts and logic to dissuade, not lies and fear.

No one is saying that smoking shisha is healthy. We all recognize the risks - we just want them related in an honest manner. All of the figures they are using in this flyer are probably from the WHO study, which has been shown to be completely false. Here is their logic:

One cigarette = x liters of smoke/gas inhaled.
One hookah session = 500x liters of smoke/gas inhaled.

Therefore, hookah is 500x more harmful than cigarettes.

That's like saying:
One cigarette = x liters of smoke/gas inhaled.
One human per day = 10000x liters of oxygen inhaled.

Therefore, breathing oxygen is 10000 times more harmful than cigarettes.

If you want kids to grow up as intelligent people, teach them to look at the facts and decide for themselves, in any situation. Otherwise they are parroting what other people are saying. It's just like abstinence education. Teaching to fear sex doesn't stop kids from having unsafe sex. In fact, every peer reviewed study about abstinence education [b]ever[/b] has shown that it has the opposite effect. Teaching kids the realistic dangers of sex, and how to have safe sex has been shown as the more effective way.
[/quote]

I absolutely agree.......

How many teenagers has anyone met who aren't nihilistic and pushing the boundaries? Tell them something is oh so bad is inclined by make them do it more to confirm the "superhero" status in their own minds. They all believe they're invincible. Truthful, accurate information is the only answer. People who try to protect 14 years olds through lies and exagerrated reports forget that even 14 year olds have minds of their own. And they will not trust those who provide false and misleading "data" to serve their own ends. If you want your children to make intelligent, informed decisions throughout the course of their lives, then you have to give them real information. Not exaggerations and misconceptions.

'Rani