Question On Harsh Smoke With Brand New Shisha.

[bfickes]

Okay so i've been smoking hookah for a couple years now and have never come across this problem. I bought a new hookah and smoked out of it 4 or 5 times with no problems, it was fantastic. Now, all of a sudden, even when I start a brand new bowl the smoke is harsh. I have tried multiple times cleaning the stem to see if that could be the problem, but no luck. It's a brass stem, and I was wondering if anyone else ever had this problem or any suggestions? Please, I miss a good smoke!

[Stuie]

Sounds like too much heat on your bowl.

Try breaking your coals in half and reducing your coal amount initially by 1/2 a coal and add/remove coal as need to get it smoking right.

[mattarios2]

what Stuie said!

[SultanofSmoke]

Said he's been smoking for a few years so I'm guessing he would have picked that up but I guess that would have to be it because for something to taste burned it has be burned and the water in your base certainly isnt whats burning stuff...like to know the answer to this one from bfickles

[Arcane]

he said the smoke is harsh...not that it has an off or burnt flavor.

harsh smoke is too much heat....you can either add more tobacco to compensate for the surplus heat or back down the heat itself.

[rahl071]

Did you stir your shisha before packing the bowl? if not, all the fluids flow to the bottom, and the tobacco on top dries some. Thus, your tobacco is not heat-protected and it burns readily. Try a good stirring if you haven't already. If not, hang most of your coal off the edge of the bowl, and move it in slowly, so as not to burn it.

[Codename067]

Try more tobacco, try less heat, change up the way you do holes on your foil, perhaps smaller holes, and rotate your coals often, don't let them sit in the same spot for too long.

Did I miss it or you didn't mention the brand you are smoking?

[spectrum055]

It's heat Management. If I use to much heat it smokes faster and has a slight burning taste ..... Not enough heat then not much smoke and same with not much flavor... I'm going through that issue at the moment with my Coconara's I'm not used to the heat they have .... though which is weird as they are just a better Version and longer lasting then AF's Coconut coal... >.<

But get your heat management down with the Coals you are using and you will be Smoking Great.

[Majid]

-Is this happening using tobacco from one single package? Could be that specific tobacco being very dry or not smoking well for another reason. If that's the case you can try to salvage it by opening the container and letting it sit out for an hour or more so the tobacco can absorb some moisture.
-If you've already cleaned the stem, try cleaning the bowl and the vase. Long shot but worth a try.

[Sonthert]

Perhaps the hose? Try your old hose and see if that helps.

[Arcane]

how does a hose make smoke harsh?

[3uphrat3s]

[quote name='Arcane' date='24 January 2010 - 04:00 PM' timestamp='1264377654' post='447476']
how does a hose make smoke harsh?
[/quote]

It doesn't...

It's most likely too much heat like people have said above.

[Arcane]

[quote name='3uphrat3s' date='24 January 2010 - 03:09 PM' timestamp='1264381775' post='447488']
[quote name='Arcane' date='24 January 2010 - 04:00 PM' timestamp='1264377654' post='447476']
how does a hose make smoke harsh?
[/quote]

It doesn't...

It's most likely too much heat like people have said above.
[/quote]

well, i doubt Eric just arbitrarily suggests something....so, he must have a reason for suggesting a new hose....

[3uphrat3s]

[quote name='Arcane' date='24 January 2010 - 06:25 PM' timestamp='1264386328' post='447502']
[quote name='3uphrat3s' date='24 January 2010 - 03:09 PM' timestamp='1264381775' post='447488']
[quote name='Arcane' date='24 January 2010 - 04:00 PM' timestamp='1264377654' post='447476']
how does a hose make smoke harsh?
[/quote]

It doesn't...

It's most likely too much heat like people have said above.
[/quote]

well, i doubt Eric just arbitrarily suggests something....so, he must have a reason for suggesting a new hose....
[/quote]

Well I don't want to be too rude, especially since I'm new around here (long time lurker though). But common sense would tell you that a hose wouldn't have anything to do with the Hookah smoke being too harsh. Just think about...

[Arcane]

i understand where you're coming from...which, if you read the replies, my first thought was too much heat...

however, Eric is ridiculously knowledgeable about hookah, tobacco, and the matings rituals of the pygmy shrew....probably knows more about hookah than i could learn in a lifetime...

so, i'm extremely curious as to why he would suggest switching out the hose...

[bfickes]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been able to get back to you in a while, been pretty busy.

As to all your suggestions, I've tried them already with no luck. It doesn't seem to be a heat issue because no matter how many (or how little) coals I use I get the same result. When I try the shisha in my other hookah it works wonderfully. In regards to the brand, I pretty much only use Al Fakher, which has yet to steer me wrong. I don't know if maybe something could be broken inside the stem or not because there's a slight rattling sound every now and then.

And to set the record straight, I'm female. haha =o)

[Arcane]

ok...so, just to clear up some details:

1. if you smoke the tobacco in one hookah, it's fine...then when you smoke in another, it's harsh?
2. are you using the same type of bowl for each hookah?
3. are you using the same hose?
4. is it actually harsh (makes you cough) or is the flavor just bad?

if 1, 2, and 3 are yes...then i'd check the hose port or the inner tube for rust or oxidation. that may be a possible culprit.

if you're using a different hose for each hookah, maybe the hose is bad....switch it out and check.

[bfickes]

[quote name='Arcane' date='02 February 2010 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1265138865' post='449198']
ok...so, just to clear up some details:

1. if you smoke the tobacco in one hookah, it's fine...then when you smoke in another, it's harsh?
2. are you using the same type of bowl for each hookah?
3. are you using the same hose?
4. is it actually harsh (makes you cough) or is the flavor just bad?

if 1, 2, and 3 are yes...then i'd check the hose port or the inner tube for rust or oxidation. that may be a possible culprit.

if you're using a different hose for each hookah, maybe the hose is bad....switch it out and check.
[/quote]

1,2,3 and 4 are yes. i use the same funnel bowl and nammor hose for both hookahs, one is harsh and one is not. and the smoke is harsh, not bad flavor, and i know it's not the shisha because no matter which flavor i use i get the same results. and then it smokes fine in the other one

[bfickes]

[quote name='bfickes' date='02 February 2010 - 03:28 PM' timestamp='1265142509' post='449214']
[quote name='Arcane' date='02 February 2010 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1265138865' post='449198']
ok...so, just to clear up some details:

1. if you smoke the tobacco in one hookah, it's fine...then when you smoke in another, it's harsh?
2. are you using the same type of bowl for each hookah?
3. are you using the same hose?
4. is it actually harsh (makes you cough) or is the flavor just bad?

if 1, 2, and 3 are yes...then i'd check the hose port or the inner tube for rust or oxidation. that may be a possible culprit.

if you're using a different hose for each hookah, maybe the hose is bad....switch it out and check.
[/quote]

1,2,3 and 4 are yes. i use the same funnel bowl and nammor hose for both hookahs, one is harsh and one is not. and the smoke is harsh, not bad flavor, and i know it's not the shisha because no matter which flavor i use i get the same results. and then it smokes fine in the other one [img]http://www.hookahforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif[/img]
[/quote]

also, i don't know how i'd check those becase this stem is all one piece welded brass. i think i may have to just suck it up and buy a new stem? :-\

[Arcane]

[quote name='bfickes' date='02 February 2010 - 10:29 AM' timestamp='1265142587' post='449216']
[quote name='bfickes' date='02 February 2010 - 03:28 PM' timestamp='1265142509' post='449214']
[quote name='Arcane' date='02 February 2010 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1265138865' post='449198']
ok...so, just to clear up some details:

1. if you smoke the tobacco in one hookah, it's fine...then when you smoke in another, it's harsh?
2. are you using the same type of bowl for each hookah?
3. are you using the same hose?
4. is it actually harsh (makes you cough) or is the flavor just bad?

if 1, 2, and 3 are yes...then i'd check the hose port or the inner tube for rust or oxidation. that may be a possible culprit.

if you're using a different hose for each hookah, maybe the hose is bad....switch it out and check.
[/quote]

1,2,3 and 4 are yes. i use the same funnel bowl and nammor hose for both hookahs, one is harsh and one is not. and the smoke is harsh, not bad flavor, and i know it's not the shisha because no matter which flavor i use i get the same results. and then it smokes fine in the other one [img]http://www.hookahforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif[/img]
[/quote]

also, i don't know how i'd check those becase this stem is all one piece welded brass. i think i may have to just suck it up and buy a new stem? :-\
[/quote]
just look down the stem, if it's smooth inside...then it's good. if you see gunk or some kind of crust inside...you're gonna want to scrub that out with a stem brush...then check the hose port too, if you see green, white or orange gunk/crust then scrub that out as well...

the only problem is, that doesn't usually lead to harsh smoke....just bad flavored smoke...

i dunno...i'm stumped. sorry!

[stigmatas]

[quote name='Stuie' date='21 January 2010 - 12:13 PM' timestamp='1264094024' post='446856']
Sounds like too much heat on your bowl.

Try breaking your coals in half and reducing your coal amount initially by 1/2 a coal and add/remove coal as need to get it smoking right.
[/quote]


breaking insta lights in 1/2 is almost impossible, do you have to saw them. So they don't fall apart?

[Sonthert]

Some hoses are better than other hoses. His old hose could have been reasonably good and then he tries a new hose which works fine until it starts to absorb flavors from previous smokings and then goes to shit. Its not that uncommon. For some people, if its their first hookah and hose, they just assume thats the way its supposed to smoke.

Established: Things were "fine" out of the old hookah. This should tend to rule out temporary changes like acclimation. It represents a shift in the smoking, which principally would be attributable to the hookah or new hookah components.

Ergo, something may be wrong with the new hookah. What, I don't know, I'm just doing some country doctoring. It seems to be a problem of accumulation in the pipe or hose. Since he said he had cleaned the stem, I assumed he had done it well and moved on to the next major piece, the hose. The next item could be the head, or perhaps you bought a new box of charcoal recently and thats different (either purchased with the hookah or purchased later...4 or 5 smokings later). Then the next possibility is the tobacco...did you change brands, did you switch flavors...etc. The other problem, from the accumulation end is that the first 5 or 6 bowls you smoked were in the citrus category and the brand in question has a dirty alcohol-solvent based terpene-heavy citrus profile. That is orange, lime (margarita), lemon, grapefruit, citrus mist, lemon mint, mimon, Tropicana, as possibilities. Or some other cluttery water-insoluble flavor (jasmine come to mind).

The other possibility is that your hookah has different realities in terms of cleaning that have not been addressed. Perhaps you had a clunky old Egyptian with a tubed bell and you purchased a Mya/Chinese Pipe that has an open bell and no tubes. If this is the case, we would need to coach you on further cleaning the Mya/Chinese Pipe.

It is also possible that you ended up getting a better bowl than the old one, so that the amount of charcoal you used to use is too much now, and you need to back it off...

So...

1. What type of hookah did you used to use?
2. What hookah did you buy?
3. Have you changed charcoal, brand of tobacco, anything in the past few times?
4. What flavors have you been smoking leading up to the problem?
5. Did you change bowls or did you keep the same bowl? Kept the same one.
6. Is the draw of the pipe significantly different than the old one? Is it much tighter or much looser?
7. What brand of tobacco are you using? (which one were you using?) Al Fakher
8. What brand of charcoal are you using? (which one were you using?)

Thats all I can think of off of the top of my head. Throw me down some info and I'll see if I can pick that sucker up.

Yes, the hose can make the smoke harsh. I had a stupid Turkish hose that took 20 smokings to get right (unharsh)...it did pass. On the other hand, one of those KM Ultimate hoses, was always harsh and nasty. Lots of people have no problem with those hoses...people who's opinions I trust and rely on, so I can only presume that was a funky hose. I have seen other hoses that are fine when new, but absorb flavor quickly. Sometimes, depending on weather and other conditions, especially if the hose is metal cased or metal tipped will have a nasty, metallic harsh flavor to it. Sometimes a piece of wood shaving or a bug will get caught and die in the hose or in the shank and it will affect the flavor. These are all possibilities.

Did you try changing the new hose and the old hose specifically there little sister?

[bfickes]

[quote name='Sonthert' date='03 February 2010 - 03:01 AM' timestamp='1265184075' post='449387']
Some hoses are better than other hoses. His old hose could have been reasonably good and then he tries a new hose which works fine until it starts to absorb flavors from previous smokings and then goes to shit. Its not that uncommon. For some people, if its their first hookah and hose, they just assume thats the way its supposed to smoke.

Established: Things were "fine" out of the old hookah. This should tend to rule out temporary changes like acclimation. It represents a shift in the smoking, which principally would be attributable to the hookah or new hookah components.

Ergo, something may be wrong with the new hookah. What, I don't know, I'm just doing some country doctoring. It seems to be a problem of accumulation in the pipe or hose. Since he said he had cleaned the stem, I assumed he had done it well and moved on to the next major piece, the hose. The next item could be the head, or perhaps you bought a new box of charcoal recently and thats different (either purchased with the hookah or purchased later...4 or 5 smokings later). Then the next possibility is the tobacco...did you change brands, did you switch flavors...etc. The other problem, from the accumulation end is that the first 5 or 6 bowls you smoked were in the citrus category and the brand in question has a dirty alcohol-solvent based terpene-heavy citrus profile. That is orange, lime (margarita), lemon, grapefruit, citrus mist, lemon mint, mimon, Tropicana, as possibilities. Or some other cluttery water-insoluble flavor (jasmine come to mind).

The other possibility is that your hookah has different realities in terms of cleaning that have not been addressed. Perhaps you had a clunky old Egyptian with a tubed bell and you purchased a Mya/Chinese Pipe that has an open bell and no tubes. If this is the case, we would need to coach you on further cleaning the Mya/Chinese Pipe.

It is also possible that you ended up getting a better bowl than the old one, so that the amount of charcoal you used to use is too much now, and you need to back it off...

So...

1. What type of hookah did you used to use?
2. What hookah did you buy?
3. Have you changed charcoal, brand of tobacco, anything in the past few times?
4. What flavors have you been smoking leading up to the problem?
5. Did you change bowls or did you keep the same bowl? Kept the same one.
6. Is the draw of the pipe significantly different than the old one? Is it much tighter or much looser?
7. What brand of tobacco are you using? (which one were you using?) Al Fakher
8. What brand of charcoal are you using? (which one were you using?)

Thats all I can think of off of the top of my head. Throw me down some info and I'll see if I can pick that sucker up.

Yes, the hose can make the smoke harsh. I had a stupid Turkish hose that took 20 smokings to get right (unharsh)...it did pass. On the other hand, one of those KM Ultimate hoses, was always harsh and nasty. Lots of people have no problem with those hoses...people who's opinions I trust and rely on, so I can only presume that was a funky hose. I have seen other hoses that are fine when new, but absorb flavor quickly. Sometimes, depending on weather and other conditions, especially if the hose is metal cased or metal tipped will have a nasty, metallic harsh flavor to it. Sometimes a piece of wood shaving or a bug will get caught and die in the hose or in the shank and it will affect the flavor. These are all possibilities.

Did you try changing the new hose and the old hose specifically there little sister?
[/quote]


i've changed every possible component between the two and they all work fine on my other hookah, i'm 99% sure this has to be a problem in the stem. As to the types... my first hookah was obviously a starter, i got it at some little shop when i was on vacation and i can't seem to find the type. It's got a threaded stem and all the hose ports are threaded as well, but this isn't the one causing the problems. The newer one is just a standard Egyptian style hookah, all one piece brass stem, clear glass vase, etc. The draw is the same as before too and i've been using the same AF coconut coals the whole time... During previous cleanings i have gotten the greenish colored water running through after scrubbing it with a brush, which i can only assume to be oxidation... but this has never happened before. the only possiblity i can think of is that i hadn't had a smoking session in 4-5 weeks and it just built up? It's stumping me too because I never had the problem previously and I always, always, always clean it after each session...

[Arcane]

if it's brass....are you cleaning it prior to smoking? that oxidation will build up between smokes too....

i'm still stumped....hope you get it right...

btw Eric...bfickes is a female...

[Sonthert]

Hey, Jay...BTW...bfickes is a woman...not a man. What are you talking about? Does her hookah button up on the opposite side? I did refer to her as little sister.

I've found its better to let brass season. Its possible that it was polished before shipment or incredibly new and not been off the ship too long. Most people don't notice this because they get hookahs that have been in a warehouse for several months...or unpolished. I would suggest skipping cleaning it with a brush...the intermediate is water soluble until it transitions to copper oxide. If the pipe was virginal and stored in a dry environment, it might not be fully seasoned. Using it a few times, rinsing it, but not brushing it. A week or ten days should do it. Maybe give it a light rinsing once a day. No brush. Just a smidge of water. The process of brushing it heavily might be removing valuable buildup. You scrub harder and then remove more buildup...which is necessary. My Thamseh started that way...I think it has a high-copper core...which is likely more problematic. Lower copper content brasses are probably less affected. The green water is likely the copper patina washing off. It might just need a little time to solidify. I've never seen the problem with Syrian brass...so its relatively new to me, too. Did the green water come out when it was smoking OK or when it started smoking badly? Also, you know not to use carbonated water or soda with a brass/copper shank, right? It can create toxic carbonates.

This is just a guess.

The other possibility is some sort of water insoluble contamination. If the leaving it alone for a week doesn't/didn't work, try rinsing the jar and shank with alcohol. Rubbing alcohol is fine, but make sure you clean it back out real well. Or you can use vodka or beer.

I'm stumped-ish too. If I could see it and smoke it, I'd know pretty quickly.