New Legislation To Increase Pipe Tobacco Tax Rates

[Chreees]

I'm kinda thinking I MIGHT just give it up if this actually goes through. I'm poor enough already...

[Charley]

[quote name='fillup' date='23 January 2010 - 12:26 AM' timestamp='1264227965' post='447215']
[quote name='Jacob Shock' date='23 January 2010 - 01:15 AM' timestamp='1264227322' post='447213']
^ WOW ^
[/quote]

Yea took me awhile.

And to Charley:

Im not sure on the way they tax it but I remember when they were trying to tax cigars to the highest rate they tried to tax it by the final weight. This weight would ***INCLUDE*** the cigar box. Im not sure if they will do this with hookah tobacco but it is a possibility.
[/quote]


even if that was the case with the proposed tax we should still provide them with as much information as we can.

a choice made from knowledge shows what a mans soul looks like. where as a choice made from ignorance can only show where the mans heart lays.

[rhineholt]

Reallllyyyy....? fuckkkmylife

[fillup]

[quote name='Charley' date='23 January 2010 - 02:05 AM' timestamp='1264230356' post='447229']



even if that was the case with the proposed tax we should still provide them with as much information as we can.

a choice made from knowledge shows what a mans soul looks like. where as a choice made from ignorance can only show where the mans heart lays.
[/quote]

Yea, agreed. Theres no harm in trying. There is a massacre if we dont. As most people said, idk if I would be able to pay that much for hookah. I would probably go back to cigars.

[Jeff_T]

This is terrible. Can't believe it. Thanks for the info on addys fillup, good work.

[Sonthert]

In real terms, a 250g of Tangiers would likely go up to $31, Starbuzz would go up to $40. I forgot to include retailer markup.

Not to mention that several retailers, wholesalers and distributors would likely go out of business so they wouldn't have to pay floor taxes.

[Sonthert]

The Federal Government taxes based on weight of product, not on a unit price. Hookah smokers are getting screwed already since hookah tobacco is 10-18% tobacco by weight, as opposed to the 70-90% for brier pipe tobacco.

Hope that answers your question, Charley.



Don't get discouraged. We can fight this. Don't assume prices are going up. If we get tough and get organized, we can be louder and more determined than the cigarette lobby, which is probably in favor of this. The ban on flavored cigarettes is a "Fuck you" to imports and small companies who produce a good diversity of products. Notice they didn't ban menthol, which all of the major cigarette manufacturers produce, while only a few of them produce fruit flavored cigarettes.

This is our country, they are our representatives. We can either just bend over, wait to get a giant dildo up the ass or we can tell them what we think of them and exercise our 1st Amendment rights to petition our grievances for redress.

This isn't a tobacco vs. non-tobacco thing. This is where the police state begins. We can either fight it or let them decide to go after liberty after liberty piecemeal until we can only do what they permit us to. If they can do this to tobacco, they'll do it to guns, fast food, the internet, whatever they think is in their best interests to limit. This is OUR government, not theirs.

[Sonthert]

Its a good idea to contact your local representative to complain first and ask them what they suggest you do to complain to the House Ways and Means Committee. You might as well bring them into it...you'll probably end up complaining to them later anyways.

Oh, you don't know who your Congressperson is? No problem, I thought I knew who mine was, but I was one district off...

https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

Go to their website and you can select send an email.

Just tell them you are opposed to HR 4439 and why.

[Sonthert]

My Email to the Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee:

I am a small tobacco manufacturer. I manufacture hookah tobacco, which we are taxed as a pipe tobacco. We have been doubling and tripling in size for the past three years. We have reached the size where we need to move to a larger facility to accommodate our orders, including ones for export to other countries. We make one of the best hookah tobaccos in the world.

HR 4439 would cripple us and likely put us and the other half a dozen or so domestic hookah tobacco manufacturers out of business. Our being taxed as a pipe tobacco is unreasonable to begin with, since our product is no more than 10-18% tobacco by weight.

This is one segment of the United States economy that is growing, even through the recession, but with HR 4439 looming, how can I justify signing a new lease to expand operations? How can I plan for the future of my business when my business' very existence is threatened?

Please stop H.R. 4439, it hurts working Americans and small businesses.

[contristo]

i was thinking of purchasing a new hookah in the next 6-12 months but that seems highly unlikely now

i'm never paying over $25 for any 250g tub of shisha, regardless of its quality. nothing that i have ever smoked warrants such a ridiculous price.

starbuzz would be so expensive people are going to think it's on the black market

this would be a huge hit to al fakher and nakhla as well... both brands are noted for their quality and affordability, and i know for a fact it is a major draw among the younger crowd because of that. hookah bars would also be forced to raise their prices and that's never good. it's expensive enough as it is.

this is very harmful to the diversity of hookah tobacco as well... this could put many smaller companies out of business. it's almost analogous to the major record labels... there may be only two brands left, both grossly overpriced due to their monopolistic advantage.

[ryno]

Fuckin A! My plans right now for school are to go back in the fall for entrepreneurship to start up a hookah bar. What they hell does that say government? Either I go back for that, or I probably dont go back to school.

[mattarios2]

writing my email as we speak.

If that shit goes through ... IT-IS-GOING-TO-SUCK

I used the same ideas as Eric.

1 - it will hurt many tobacco manufacturers, retailers, and the entire industry who are still doing well at the moment even with the recession.

2 - the amount of tobacco in shisha is far less so why the same tax as brier pipe tobacco?

and i added a couple other things that I can think of now.

That was the jist of it.

My letter was to Barney Franks

[demonix]

We honestly get screwed because we don't have any lobbyists, unlike the rest of the tobacco products...
Can we talk George or someone big in the industry into becoming our lobbyist....?

[joytron]

[font="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial,"][color="#222222"]
I am writing you in response to recent legislation H.R.4439 which will amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to impose the same rate of tax on pipe tobacco as is imposed on roll-your-own tobacco. This tax is not aimed at pipe smokers which qualify for less than .1% of the total population but rather the roll-your-own tobacco companies that refer to themselves as pipe tobacco companies in order to escape paying the increased taxes. As a hookah (shisha) smoker I am a caught in the crossfire. Hookah tobacco which is only 10-18% tobacco by weight, is unfairly regulated as pipe tobacco and this new tax is totally unreasonable. Since the hookah tobacco industry has no lobbyists I am writing you for advice on how I can best and most effectively voice my opinion on the matter.


thank you for your time,[/color][/font]

[hookah hippie]

Eric for president

[Skoozle]

Thank you all for posting your letters. They have some solid points that I would like to paraphrase if it's ok with you. I think quick action and strength in numbers is our best chance. Would it be out of line for Hooka Forum to send an email to all members (I think there are thousands). I plan to make sure owners of local hookah bars and tobacco store are aware of this. If we inform an additional 10,000 people then maybe another 100 will take action. We need all the help we can get.

[Sonthert]

Absolutely! Tell everyone you know to write their congressman and the House Ways and Means Committee chairman. ITs what we've got until we can contact the right people and get an organized front together.

Taxing roll-your-own cigarette tobacco at $24.73/Lb to match the excise tax on cigarettes makes sense. Taxing pipe tobacco manufacturers $24.73/Lb because other people may have decided to cheat doesn't. We shouldn't be penalized for other companies cheating. If that has nothing to do with it...then they are just trying to make tobacco illegal or tax the shit out of it. Thats not right either.

As a loyal registered Democrat, I'm willing to change my party to vote for someone who will protect my rights. The Republicans haven't been doing a bang-up job protecting tobacco's rights, but I'm willing to do anything.

[delSol_si]

[font=Times][size=2][size=2]well, i have taken tax accounting and am in advanced tax accounting this semester. from last semester, i remember that the House Ways and Means Committee is just the initial step. so ya, it sucks, but if they approve it, that does NOT mean it gets passed, they are just the initial reviewers. Their opinion doesn't really mean shit. And, this also means that it should take a long time to pass.

Here is a passage taken from my text book:[/size]

"Federal tax legislation generally originates in the House of Representatives, where it is first considered by the House Ways and Means Committee. Tax bills originate in the Senate when they are attached as riders to other legislative proposals. If acceptable to the committee, the proposed bill is referred to the entire House of Representatives for approval or disapproval. Approval bills are sent to the Senate, where they initially are considered by the Senate Finance Committee.
The next step is referral from the Senate Finance Committee to the entire Senate......"

it goes on and on about this, but i don't think anyone has the desire to read all the stuff just yet. My point is that even if it gets passed in the House Means and Ways committee, it doesn't go into effect, and that means that if it does get approved by them, the next step is to write to or complain to the House of Representatives. then after that, you can complain to the Senate Finance Committee, then the entire Senate, and so forth. That last step is the president, who can either approve or veto it.[/size][/font]

[antouwan]

they've already done this in Texas. I was banking on buying all of my tobacco from cali to get around it, but if this goes national we're screwed. i'm planning on making my envelopes big red billboards which will advertise the representative as [b]"destroyer of American jobs and executioner of the national economy"[/b]

that is all. i'll get on this in the next week or so.

[Punx Clever]

Eric, Move operations south to mexico. Or buy a small carribean island.

[wayfarinstranger]

One thing we can do is create a Facebook Group to petition against the bill. That will provide a centalized location to voice our complaints as well as raise others' awareness as to the bill's existence. If there's almost 170k people who are willing to join an "Addicted to Starbucks" group, then surely there's a significant contingent of smokers who would be fuming over this (no pun intended). Not to mention nonsmokers who generally disagree with this kind of government regulation.

I'd make one right now but I'm already friggin' preoccupied....

[quote name='Sonthert' date='23 January 2010 - 03:11 AM' timestamp='1264234269' post='447244']
The Federal Government taxes based on weight of product, not on a unit price. Hookah smokers are getting screwed already since hookah tobacco is 10-18% tobacco by weight, as opposed to the 70-90% for brier pipe tobacco.

Hope that answers your question, Charley.



Don't get discouraged. We can fight this. Don't assume prices are going up. If we get tough and get organized, we can be louder and more determined than the cigarette lobby, which is probably in favor of this. The ban on flavored cigarettes is a "Fuck you" to imports and small companies who produce a good diversity of products. Notice they didn't ban menthol, which all of the major cigarette manufacturers produce, while only a few of them produce fruit flavored cigarettes.

This is our country, they are our representatives. We can either just bend over, wait to get a giant dildo up the ass or we can tell them what we think of them and exercise our 1st Amendment rights to petition our grievances for redress.

This isn't a tobacco vs. non-tobacco thing. This is where the police state begins. We can either fight it or let them decide to go after liberty after liberty piecemeal until we can only do what they permit us to. If they can do this to tobacco, they'll do it to guns, fast food, the internet, whatever they think is in their best interests to limit. This is OUR government, not theirs.
[/quote]

[r1v3th3ad]

I sent my local congressman a lengthy email, using information from joytron's message(thanks), but editing it to voice my opinion on the matter(I just used a lot of the facts from his message). I then threw in personal opinion on how this can negatively effect the economy and small business...I.E. me stopping putting my money in the economy like I do now spending it on my hobby; when it becomes this expensive I will be forced to quit my hobby and horde my money.

I'm also a jagoff, I threw in that I'm the son of a councilman who told me he was the best person to contact (with names used) lol (I am son of a councilman)

[Amn_sinclair]

[img]http://giovanniworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/1286726344967370102.jpg[/img]


Hookah island is sounding really good right now..... that or base tangiers out of mexico then cross the border to mail it?

[r1v3th3ad]

The response I received:

Thank you for contacting my office!

As you can imagine, I receive thousands of e-mail messages every week, and that doesn't include the junk e-mails that we all find annoying. Because of this, I am only able to respond to constituents of Pennsylvania's 14th District. While I can't reply to every message, I will do my best to get back to you by regular mail. Therefore, it is important that I have your postal address. Depending on the message, a phone number can be helpful, too. If you didn't include this information with your original email, please feel free to send me a follow-up message.

In the meantime, I encourage you to visit my website at [url="http://imail.iup.edu/Redirect/doyle.house.gov"]http://doyle.house.gov[/url] and to register to receive my electronic newsletter.

Again, thank you for taking the time to contact me. As your Representative in Congress, I hope that you will contact me regularly on issues that are of concern to you. Please keep in touch.

Sincerely,

Congressman Mike Doyle (PA-14)

[Skoozle]

If we are going to email, we should have a somewhat consistant subject line. It is easy to dismiss emails with subject lines like "This pisses me off" with automatic responses and invitations to subsribe to news letters. If a large percentage of those thousands of emails next week reference opposition to H.R.4439, then it's tough to ignore. Although I agree that paper letters and phone calls are probibly more effective.