New Legislation To Increase Pipe Tobacco Tax Rates

[Codename067]

Ok I should seriously make a thread for this seeing how it might get over looked in this thread.

This is HUGE, it deserves a thread on its own.

[Sonthert]

Sami Romman from Hookah-Shisha is in the 25th Congressional District in Texas. Woe be to Mr. Doggett, seconder of this bill! Sami's got his people on this. He's blowing up his email lists. Mr. Doggett just happens to be on the House Ways and Means Committee too. If you live in Austin, or south of, in the 25th Congressional District, you guys need to start sending lots of emails! Call his office. If you're in the 25th Congressional District of Texas...His number is:

202-225-4865 (In D.C.)
512-916-5921 (In Texas)

Pick up the phone, and call him. Use the buttons. Thats what they're for.

I would still like to find some people to get after the sponsor of the bill. Steve Cohen.

His phone # is
(202) 225-3265 (In D.C.)
901-544-4131 (In Tennessee)

[Sonthert]

Remember its HR4439. Call and tell them you are opposed to it. Its called the "the Tobacco Tax Parity Act of 2010".

[Chreees]

[quote name='Codename067' date='25 January 2010 - 02:48 PM' timestamp='1264452521' post='447631']
[color="#ff0000"][size="4"][b]If you guys want to do something, click on this link, it will take no more than 60 seconds of you time:
[/b][/size][/color]
[url="http://www.rallycongress.com/stop-the-pipe-tobacco-tax/2826/stop-pipe-tobacco-tax/"]http://www.rallycong...pe-tobacco-tax/[/url]
[/quote]

Done! Thanks Codename.

[jaytoo3]

I'm down the block from Charles Rangel. I'll knock on his door.

[Pretender85]

Freaking ridiculous..I sent off multiple email letters to people on that list already..I can understand the whole taxing thing as far as things like alcohol and tobacco go...but this is just insane. Taking liberty and throwing it, literally, right out the window..apparently people forget after a couple hundred years why this nation was formed to begin with.

[Sonthert]

Amen brother.

The list of people to contact is as follows:

Charles Rangel, Chairman of the House Committee on Ways and Means. 15th New York Congressional District
Lloyd Doggett, Member of the House Committee on Ways and Means, Seconder of the Bill. 25th Texas Congressional District
Steve Cohen, Maker of the Motion. 9th Tennessee Congressional District

And of course, your local Congressional District Representative to the House.

[Rani]

[quote name='Sonthert' date='25 January 2010 - 12:58 PM' timestamp='1264453095' post='447634']
The bill is still frozen as of yet. It hasn't made the House Ways and Means Committee agenda yet. It hasn't had any action on it. Lets keep it that way. Tell everyone you know to write your local House Rep. and the Chairman of the House Committee on ways and Means.Your mother, your brother, the mail man, people at the bar, whomever will listen to you for more than 20 seconds!
[/quote]

There's a time limit on all bills as I recall. If no action is taken within that time period it "dies in committee", but I can't for the life of me remember what the limit is. I looked on House.gov but couldn't find the reference. Anybody happen to know the deadline? If we know the deadline we can keep up the effort until it "dies".

'Rani

[Sonthert]

I am drafting a letter to Steve Cohen...see how this sounds...

Dear Sir,

You seem like a good and decent man. I've researched your rise to the House of Representatives. The Tennessee Senate, Vice President of the 1977 Constitutional Convention, Shelby County Commissioner. I am a loyal, voting Democrat, I have been for the 20 years I have had the privilege of voting. I read your position on politics and find myself in agreement with everything you stand for...except state lotteries (I am opposed to legalized gambling). Although, I must admit, the idea of sending people to college with the proceeds sounds like an exceptionally noble goal. I never heard details of your 2008 election bid until I started researching you, but I am glad you bravely persevered, people calling into question your character, insulting your religious beliefs and whatnot. I can't even imagine what that must have been like. It makes me realize why I never pursued politics though, honestly.

I must admit, I am angry, originally with you, but after I read your position on different issues and what you've done and overcome, I said "That's me." I guess I can't be too mad at a person who sees the world much the same way I do. I guess I'm mad at a situation you've had a hand in creating.

I am a tobacco manufacturer; my company manufactures hookah tobacco. My product is taxed as Pipe Tobacco...which is in my way of thinking unfair, but that's a subject for a different letter. I export my products to several corners of the globe. I am a small business, and have grown to the point where I am starting to show a profit, but I am in debt from the hard years it took to make my company a standard in American Hookah Tobacco. Even many people from the Middle East consider my product among the best in the World. I work seven days a week, averaging 14 hours per day. I work hard for my customers and to scrape by. My company has shown good growth, even a little growth in the recession. All I have to my name is an old pickup truck and my business.

I have gotten to the point where my store is too small for the amount of work I have and I was in the final stages of moving to a larger place to grow even more.

I can't sign a new lease, I can't continue with my plans and continue to help the economy because of your introduction of HR 4439, The Tobacco Tax Parity of Act of 2010. That bill would literally put me out of business. Signing a lease even for a year would be daft at best. It would put at least 100 other businesses out on the street too. When my father died, he left me a little money. I took that money and started my company. Every dollar I've ever had or made is in my business. Passage of, even the very existence of HR4439 threatens that. If HR 4439 passes I would be left with literally nothing but a pile of debt. The other businesses would add more unemployed to the economy. I'm not married, but I help out my elderly mother with her bills. The men and women in the hookah tobacco trade that you would put out into the street are married, they have families and debt and not a lot of prospects for a future with the passage of HR 4439. The tax increase of last year was devastating to many importers, retailers and distributors. Some almost didn't make it. Some still are trying to pay for it, I would imagine. That was only $1.73/Lb increase. The increase proposed by HR 4439 is inconceivable.

I know this sounds like I'm asking for something for myself sir, but ultimately I am not. Stopping HR 4439 would help me, but I'm relatively young and I have a good educational background. Many of these other men and women in the industry are not as blessed. They would be ravaged (Yes, I cheated and used your description of Iraq's economy in your Congressional Fact Finding Tour). The others in the Hookah Industry are even more needy than myself in many ways. They work for their money, but HR 4439 would take that all away. I would be ruined too, but I am more worried about them. They are good, decent people, not monsters. We aren't millionaires, we don't own houses or yachts. We don't wear ties and suits to work. We are blue-collar, working Americans. All of our livelihoods are centered around this tobacco product. There is one man I'd like to tell you about, who is a wholesaler of hookah products, we know as Hajj-Ali. His wife is gravely ill and most of his money from his hookah wholesale business goes to her medical bills. If HR4439 was passed, he wouldn't be automatically one of the people put out of business, but he would be severely hurt by it, I'd wager. His wife is such a kind, sweet woman. He's kind of tough to understand philosophically and get along with all the time, but he's a fine man. If you could meet his wife, you'd understand. Sami Romman, George Jonson, Akram Allos. John Haddour who started a small internet retail store when his job in the Real Estate Market was destroyed by the recession. He has three beautiful children and a lovely wife. He is struggling to stay afloat as it is. More people I know and don't know the last names of. The Nidals. Tony from Sierra Network. Weil and Al'lah from Starbuzz. Randy from Fantasia, Saleba from Planet Imports. Joe from Karabetian. Even that jerk Samir. Canary Imports is struggling to hold on from the recession, this would plunge them over, I'm sure. There's too many to list. They would all be hurt by HR4439...most of them critically. The passage of HR4439 leaves them with two options. Business failure and cheating on their taxes. I think most of them will choose to close their businesses.

I believe in the United States. A naive, blind sort of love. I was raised in different times, I believe in tradition, I believe in hard work, I believe in our Republic, I believe in the Founding Fathers similar to the way some people have religion. I read the Bill of Rights the way some people read a holy book. I think H.R. 4439 is a mistake. I think this bill is going to hurt a lot of hard working people. I could send you pictures of them, if you would want to, the people who's very means are threatened by the passage of this. I can't see any reason that would justify what the outcome would be of the passage of H.R. 4439. I guess I hope this letter will reach you and you would appreciate what this bill means to the people in my industry. I wish you could see our side and reconsider your position, sir. I don't know what else to say. I think hope may be all that I have left soon.

I trust you'll appreciate the spirit in which this letter is intended, too. I do tend to go on a bit, so I appreciate your patience. I am crossing my fingers that I haven't violated some traditional procedure for contacting members of our government or offended your beliefs in some way.

I thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.


A Loyal American,
Eric Hofmann
President, Tangiers Tobacco






Is it worth sending?

Steve Cohen is facing a re-election bid this year. His 2008 election primary was marred by him being accused of being a racist, his Jewish faith was slandered, his opponents claimed his seat should be filled by an African American and he was generally dragged through the mud...and then he won the primary in a landslide. 89% or something like that. After reading about the guy, I really feel bad about wanting to give him a hard time. He's worked hard and persevered too. It is really a case of his Bill or my livelihood though.

[Sonthert]

There is no time limit on a bill. If the House Committee doesn't pick up the bill or consider it, it effectively dies, but its still left floating around. Thats where the Patriot Act comes from ostensibly. Frequently bills are proposed and then just fall into the 5th Dimension in Committee. They are then reintroduced and re-proposed later. The Committee can "find" the bill and then decide to pick it up later. If the Committee debates and researches it and decides not to report on it to the House, it also effectively dies. The time limit might be during the session of the Congress its introduced. I don't know rightly.

This is mostly from memory.

The bill just kind of laying there in the House Ways and Means Committee without being considered is a good sign. Its not enough to make me breathe in relief..but I'm not screaming in terror either.

[Codename067]

Eric, that sounds damn legit. Send away!

Btw, I will contact you tomorrow if I am not working.

[Jacob Shock]

Eric that letter was amazing.

[Skoozle]

Send your letter, man. You put some serious time and research into that letter; don't let your efforts go to waste.

[ryno]

I say send it. You did your job researching fact, I think he'd ave to take you seriously. I think I would add how shisha is only 10%-18% tobacco as well.

[Rani]

[quote name='ryno' date='26 January 2010 - 10:50 AM' timestamp='1264531808' post='447813']
I say send it. You did your job researching fact, I think he'd ave to take you seriously. I think I would add how shisha is only 10%-18% tobacco as well.
[/quote]

That and perhaps some reference that you understand the original intent of the bill was to deal with the roll your own tobacco people who are trying to skate the law. He may not realize his intention has a catastrophic effect on an entirely different business.

'Rani

[r1v3th3ad]

I agree with the above...explain about the roll your own and that hookah tobacco is only 10-18%...but that is a damn compelling letter.



I just received a response to one that I sent...nice that someone actually read it unlike the first two I sent:

[font="Times New Roman"][size="4"]Dear Mr. Conley:[/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="4"]Thank you for taking the time to contact me about H.R. 4439, the Tobacco Tax Parity Act of 2010. I appreciate hearing from you about this issue.[/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="4"]The Tobacco Tax Parity Act of 2010 was introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives on January 13. 2010. The bill would amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to impose the same rate of tax on pipe tobacco as is imposed on roll-your-own tobacco. Currently, there is no similar legislation in the Senate. Should this bill come before the Senate for consideration, please be assured that I will have your comments in mind.[/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="4"]Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future about this or any other matter of importance to you.[/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="4"]If you have access to the Internet, I encourage you to visit my web site, [url="http://imail.iup.edu/Redirect/casey.senate.gov"]http://casey.senate.gov[/url]. I invite you to use this online office as a comprehensive resource to stay up-to-date on my work in Washington, request assistance from my office or share with me your thoughts on the issues that matter most to you and to Pennsylvania.[/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="4"]Sincerely,[/size][/font]
[font="Times New Roman"][size="4"]Bob Casey[/size][/font]
[font="Times New Roman"][size="4"]United States Senator[/size][/font]

[Twisted]

I received the same message. I think he just copy+pasted it and changed the recipient name.

[Bulldog_916]

Sent to all three asshole members of the California congressional delegation. Number 157. Woot.

[delSol_si]

[quote name='Bulldog_916' date='28 January 2010 - 11:01 AM' timestamp='1264698089' post='448148']
Sent to all three asshole members of the California congressional delegation. Number 157. Woot.
[/quote]

i agree, congress is filled with a bunch of assholes.

I went to a prehearing today for a worker comp case....this entire legal system is a fucking joke. Pretty much if you have a shit load of money, you can do anything, if you don't have money, your fucked and people can walk all over you and there is nothing you can do about it.

Welcome to america, the land of the fucked.

[jeremyk]

send it i think it is very well written n pics of you guys who would be put out of business

[Sonthert]

So, this was brought to my attention by AZCoyote, Dan Fishman. In the snuff world, they are pissed about the PACT Act..."Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking" Another piece of B.S. legislation. Its much further along than this piece of crap HR4439. Most of it is silly and pointless and would be, if past Supreme Court Findings are upheld, found unconstitutional and struck down.

However, there is one piece of the legislation that is a pain in the ass for Hookah People, and that's this provision:

"Amends the federal criminal code to treat cigarettes and smokeless tobacco as nonmailable matter and prohibit their deposit into the U.S. mails. Requires the USPS to refuse to accept for delivery or transmit through the mails any package that it knows or has reasonable cause to believe contains any cigarettes or smokeless tobacco made nonmailable by this Act. "

They want to ban tobacco from shipment by the USPS. Cigars and shipments to Alaska and Hawaii are exempted. FedEx and UPS are exempted. In some cases, shipping tobacco to you guys through the postal service is preferable, so removing that would be a pain in the ass. It would probably end free samples from Tangiers.

Its passed the House, its in the Senate. Please write a couple of more letters for us, write to your senators this time. Tell them you are opposed to S1147, the PACT Act. The Dan is trying to get the snuff people to support us in opposition to HR4439. They seem like a smaller group, but ther support would be helpful! Write an email, send it to both senators in the state you live in. Simple.

Thanks much.

Your Tobaccially,
Eric

[Rani]

[quote name='Sonthert' date='29 January 2010 - 12:47 PM' timestamp='1264798027' post='448424']
So, this was brought to my attention by AZCoyote, Dan Fishman. In the snuff world, they are pissed about the PACT Act..."Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking" Another piece of B.S. legislation. Its much further along than this piece of crap HR4439. Most of it is silly and pointless and would be, if past Supreme Court Findings are upheld, found unconstitutional and struck down.

However, there is one piece of the legislation that is a pain in the ass for Hookah People, and that's this provision:

"Amends the federal criminal code to treat cigarettes and smokeless tobacco as nonmailable matter and prohibit their deposit into the U.S. mails. Requires the USPS to refuse to accept for delivery or transmit through the mails any package that it knows or has reasonable cause to believe contains any cigarettes or smokeless tobacco made nonmailable by this Act. "

They want to ban tobacco from shipment by the USPS. Cigars and shipments to Alaska and Hawaii are exempted. FedEx and UPS are exempted. In some cases, shipping tobacco to you guys through the postal service is preferable, so removing that would be a pain in the ass. It would probably end free samples from Tangiers.

Its passed the House, its in the Senate. Please write a couple of more letters for us, write to your senators this time. Tell them you are opposed to S1147, the PACT Act. The Dan is trying to get the snuff people to support us in opposition to HR4439. They seem like a smaller group, but ther support would be helpful! Write an email, send it to both senators in the state you live in. Simple.

Thanks much.

Your Tobaccially,
Eric
[/quote]

Investigation led to the fact that S1147 is accompanied by HR1676 which has 4 versions currently in the Senate. I sent the following letter to my Senators:

[size=2]Dear Senator Boxer,[/size]
[size=2]
[/size]
[size=2]I have read the exact wording of both S1147 and HR 1676 and I am completely opposed to both bills currently in the Senate. My reasons are:[/size][size=2]
[/size][size=2] [/size][size=2]
[/size][size=2]1) It would greatly damage small internet retailers operating at a minimum margin. These are primarily small businesses throughout the country, most of which are operating out of their homes and attempting to stay competitive through reasonable shipping costs which USPS provides;[/size][size=2]
[/size][size=2] [/size][size=2]
[/size][size=2]2) It removes this shipping revenue from the Federal government through USPS and increases the revenue to private shipping companies;[/size][size=2]
[/size][size=2] [/size][size=2]
[/size][size=2]3) It is completely unenforceable as past practices have proven there is no way to enforce internet traffic from around the world thereby damaging only US based businesses and offering no reduction to off shore business. In fact this would likely increase international traffic;[/size][size=2]
[/size][size=2] [/size][size=2]
[/size][size=2]4) Contrary to the wording of the bill regarding making purchases easier for children, every US tobacco retailer generally requires a direct signature to receive the package. Direct signature requires the person purchasing show identification and proof they are over 18 years of age and therefore it is virtually impossible for children to easily purchase from US retailers, however it does not prohibit the purchase from international retailers who are not required to abide by US laws in shipping of their product which would continue to go unchecked;[/size][size=2]
[/size][size=2] [/size][size=2]
[/size][size=2]5) Cigars are exempt which leads me to believe that according to this bill it's perfectly fine for middle aged wealthy men to continue to purchase their cigars via US Mail from Cuba but punishes US retailers to the average American citizen;[/size][size=2]
[/size][size=2] [/size][size=2]
[/size][size=2]6) This bill is yet one more attack on what consenting adults can consume within the confines of their own homes and represents another attack on private freedoms for the American people.[/size][size=2]
[/size][size=2] [/size][size=2]
[/size][size=2]Senator Boxer, how many private liberties are we expected to give up when everything about our homes and economy have been turned upside down? I understand tobacco isn't anyone's favorite child, but the truth is we the American people do have the right to use legal and enjoyable tobacco products at a reasonable cost within our homes. I am absolutely opposed to this infringement upon my right to continue to use tobacco purchased legitimately from American small business.[/size][size=2]
[/size][size=2] [/size][size=2]
[/size][size=2]Sincerely and respectfully,[/size][size=2] [/size]

[size="3"][size="2"]Anybody who wants to is welcome to use any part of it to address their own senators.[/size][/size]

[size="3"][size="2"]'Rani[/size][/size]

[Sonthert]

I like that letter.

I think Feinstein might like to get that one, too. I think both senators cover the entire state.

I might just cut and paste your letter.

For everyone following this legislation, the prohibition against NHT followed along similar lines. Scattered legislation capped by huge taxes...when people stopped paying the taxes, it was moved to be criminalized. Gee. Sounds familiar...huh?

If the politicians in Washington don't get our message, we are running down a lonely road with no turn-offs. More and more people evading the tax. Criminalization would follow...then more illegal trade and another drug war that doesn't work and costs the taxpayers billions. If you have friends that are oriented towards non-tobaccos, tell them this affects them too. If the country is moving to criminalize or make one product illegal it would seem blatantly hypocritical to allow another one to be legalized...so it won't happen. If we protect tobacco. then other people might get their wishes. Get them on board and helping to defeat this insane tax.

Also, presumably, the tax on tobacco and alcohol would be the template for the tax on all other items as well.

[Rani]

[quote name='Sonthert' date='29 January 2010 - 06:01 PM' timestamp='1264816876' post='448477']
I like that letter.

I think Feinstein might like to get that one, too. I think both senators cover the entire state.

I might just cut and paste your letter.

For everyone following this legislation, the prohibition against NHT followed along similar lines. Scattered legislation capped by huge taxes...when people stopped paying the taxes, it was moved to be criminalized. Gee. Sounds familiar...huh?

If the politicians in Washington don't get our message, we are running down a lonely road with no turn-offs. More and more people evading the tax. Criminalization would follow...then more illegal trade and another drug war that doesn't work and costs the taxpayers billions. If you have friends that are oriented towards non-tobaccos, tell them this affects them too. If the country is moving to criminalize or make one product illegal it would seem blatantly hypocritical to allow another one to be legalized...so it won't happen. If we protect tobacco. then other people might get their wishes. Get them on board and helping to defeat this insane tax.

Also, presumably, the tax on tobacco and alcohol would be the template for the tax on all other items as well.
[/quote]

Oh, Feinstein got one too - I just happened to grab and paste the one to Boxer. I talked aabout this at the Lodge this evening. We pretty much came to the conclusion that Capitol Hill has simply lost their goddamned minds. They can't get together to fix health care, they can't salvage the economy, they're opening the doors to further election abuses and we're continuing to fight wars on two fronts...... They can't stop in-fighting long enough to do anything actually useful, but they can waste time keeping the world threatening danger of cigarettes out of the postal service????? I'm telling you we need to take away all their privileges, bring them down to earth with the rest of Americans struggling and see if they're so interested in ridiculous issues like tobacco in the mail over and above fixing the mess we've got going on right now.

'Rani

[Bulldog_916]

Sorry for the thread resurrection...but any new updates on this?