Do It Yourself Shisha

[r1v3th3ad]

I just put in an order for nicontina rustica...supposed to be the most potent tobacco known to man. Shamans/Native Americans use it for spiritual rituals and good health as well as healing.
I plan on making a molasses based shisha for personal use and a few friends...

My plans are to blend molasses, glycerin, and flavoring in a pot and bring it to a simmer...add flavoring until I get it perfect.
Then I will add the tobacco and simmer it for a good ten minutes.

I'm not sure whether I should bake the tobacco briefly at a low temperature after or not.


...am I going about this wrong, is there some other way I should be doing this? Any tips?

I dont plan on selling, this is just my own little thing...maybe 20yrs from now when I have my own lounge I will, but right now its for fun.


If you don't want to share your secrets(for those of you who have been successful), feel free to pm me if you wish to share with someone looking for some hobby fun.
If I'm successful, I might send out a few samples...but be warned, the very few people I would send it to(already have the list in my head), this stuff will knock you on your ass...this tobacco is high nicotine.

[srawas89]

If i knew anything about making shisha that was somewhat moderately successful I would def. help you out as I would love to smoke some of this tobacco since I believe that nicotine runs in my veins so it would be interesting how much I could handle lol. I really hope your tests go through, if not please just let me know where you got the tobacco as I would just want to smoke it to see how potent it is...I like nicotine I guess lol.

[Skoozle]

What type of molasses will you be using? It's not regular grocery store molasses, is it?

[mushrat]

I sent someone some Rustica. I forget who it was around here. They were supposed to make some shisha and send me a sample. You do realize that stuff has almost psychotropic levels of Nicotine right?

[evilded777]

[quote name='mushrat' date='27 January 2010 - 10:19 AM' timestamp='1264605559' post='447976']
I sent someone some Rustica. I forget who it was around here. They were supposed to make some shisha and send me a sample. You do realize that stuff has almost psychotropic levels of Nicotine right?
[/quote]

Oh do tell? Where can I get some?

[Rani]

We had a discussion about this a little while ago. Rustica has about 20 times the nicotine from other varieties as I recall from my research and our discussion and nicotine is a psychotropic compound. (You control the effect by controlling the percentage.) Rustica is so potent it's used as a pesticide. As interested as I was at rustica shisha, I would never tackle it myself. I would want it to be the experiment of someone who completely understands tobacco and how to work with it and it's effects. An Eric special project for example. But don't take that to mean I'm trying to discourage you........ Get the best possible advice from the experts and go for it. Carefully though please, because we'd hate to see you disappear for a few days and then come back telling us your experiment landed you in the hospital.

'Rani

[mushrat]

It's what the American Indians smoked for ceremonies. Not like it'll kill ya, but dont be suprised if you get one hell of a headache.

[Jacob Shock]

Rustica you say? yea its super strong. back in high school i used to smoke it in a pipe with a torch lighter. it will fuck you up so be carefull, and sitting down would be an excellnt idea.

never made shisha from it, havent even smoked it in like 2 years. just be warned it kinda burns a bit on inhale. makes tangiers feel lik air. Edited January 27, 2010 by delSol_si

[delSol_si]

I vote you send some to Stuie...I know he has been complaining about never being able to get a buzz anymore.

[Rani]

[quote name='mushrat' date='27 January 2010 - 08:33 AM' timestamp='1264609996' post='447987']
It's what the American Indians smoked for ceremonies. Not like it'll kill ya, but dont be suprised if you get one hell of a headache.
[/quote]

Note: Native American smoke ceremonies are pretty much mouth puffs - not great lungful inhales. So I'm doubtful the amount of nicotine actually entering your bloodstream would be identical. I never experienced any headaches during ceremonies, but again, we're talking mouth puffs - not deep lungs full.

'Rani

[r1v3th3ad]

[quote name='mushrat' date='27 January 2010 - 10:19 AM' timestamp='1264605559' post='447976']
I sent someone some Rustica. I forget who it was around here. They were supposed to make some shisha and send me a sample. You do realize that stuff has almost psychotropic levels of Nicotine right?
[/quote]

Dont worry Mush, you're on the list

and yes, psychotropic effects are to be expected, last time I had it raw in a pipe, I was seeing some alteration in colors.

I am very excited to do this. My first batch is going to be small, to test the waters and to see how potent it really is...if it is too damn strong, maybe I'll make a rustica lucid


no one has any recommendations on what to do? I think my idea will work


and ya, Stuie was on there, he is like me and doesnt get a buzz...I usually smoke around 3 small phunnels of tangiers a day and no buzz...this is kinda what made me want to do it...the other part was just wanting to make my own shisha

[Arcane]

good luck in your experiment, Pat!

[PolishHookah]

is it necessary to bake the tobacco before mixing it in?

[Amn_sinclair]

how does one go about getting ahold of this tobacco?

[r1v3th3ad]

[quote name='PolishHookah' date='27 January 2010 - 09:56 PM' timestamp='1264647392' post='448065']
is it necessary to bake the tobacco before mixing it in?
[/quote]
baking IMHO would take any water content out of the mixture

[quote name='Amn_sinclair' date='27 January 2010 - 10:11 PM' timestamp='1264648277' post='448066']
how does one go about getting ahold of this tobacco?
[/quote]
ethnobotanical websites carry this. PM me if you want the website...I'm not going to advertise it here for the sake of hookah and its reputation

[Sonthert]

#1, Nicotiana Rustica is nominally higher in nicotine. It is typically 4-8% nicotine, where Nicotiana Tabacum is .75-5% nicotine.

#2, IF N. Rustica contains higher nicotine amounts, it presumably contains higher amounts of Harmine, Harmaline and other MAO-A and MAO-B Inhibitors. This is dangerous at best. If you are diabetic, especially if you take insulin, you should avoid this. Avoid eating foods containing tyramine, which include foods that are aged, brewed or preserved. This includes, but is not limited to dairy products, fish, pork, beer, wine, liquor, pickles or foods stored in vinegar...not to mention vinegar itself. Soy Sauce, Teriyaki Sauce, legumes (beans, peas, peanuts), hard or semi-soft cheeses, yogurt. Smoked, canned or preserved meats of all kinds. Bacon or other salted meats. Some citrus fruits are on the no-no list, as well as all dried fruits, like apricots, figs and raisins. Avoid also if you are taking other MAO inhibitors or other prescriptions. Also, soy beans and tofu are no-no. Soybeans are loaded with tyramine. Packaged lunch meats are probably high in tyramine too.

#3 The ingestion of these chemicals (MAO Inhibitors) can cause ataxic reactions and hallucinations. It can cause critical hypertensive crises, especially if consumed in conjunction with tyramine containing foods as listed above. Avoid if you have high blood pressure or are taking medication for blood pressure. Do not take if you are consuming brewer's yeast or other vitamin-B supplements or over-the-counter vitamins that may contain vitamin B (from Brewer's Yeast).

#4 Avoid consuming other NHT substances that are amine bearing. Unfortunately, due to Forum rules, I can not go into details about which to avoid, Do not use if you take prescriptions stimulants, especially for ADD or ADHD. This is very important and can be life threatening. Do not consume anti-histamines or other products especially ones containing diphenhydramine (Re: Benadryl). Certain nuts and tropical fruits are also on the list to avoid, but I don't know which off the top of my head. I think coconuts, mangoes, papayas and bananas, but don't quote me on that. Do not eat strange cacti at the same time. Members of the Genus Opuntia, the most common ones eaten (Nopales) are OK, but other ones, especially illegal ones are strictly no-no.

Essentially, what's going on here, is MAOs regulate amines in your body. MAO is one of your body's chemical defensive systems. Some foods you normally eat contain amines, some of which are hazardous if they lurk around too long in your body. Tyramine causes increases in blood pressure. Many foods we eat all the time have tyramine in them. An MAO inhibitor comes along and ties up your body's defensive systems, so the normally present amines linger longer and have a more pronounced effect. In the case of foods containing Tyramine, you might have a slight increase in blood pressure normally from eating foods with this stuff in. If you consume MAO Inhibitors, it slows your bodies response to these otherwise innocuous chemicals. MAO Inhibitors in conjunction with large amounts of Tyramine can cause large increases in blood pressure.

I think chocolate either contains MAO Inhibitors of its own or has other chemicals in it, other than tyramine that can cause adverse reactions in the presence of MAOs...it should be avoided too.

Have fun, and good luck. I should just add...for Tangiers, I use below average nicotine tobacco. Using even average to above average nicotine tobacco is nasty. I can't imagine using even low nicotine Rustica. Quite unsuitable. Sorry my memory's a little fuzzy on some of the details. Maybe Wiki has something useful to say?

[r1v3th3ad]

holy hell

...wouldn't be surprised if this stunt lands me in the hospital...

thanks for all the info Eric, I now think I am going to "wash" the tobacco before I brew it into something tasty

[Bulldog_916]

Honestly I would wash and rinse it at least a few times before drying and shredding it for your shisha. It would be crazy imho to smoke it without washing it.

[Sonthert]

Hmm. This is not well-advised. Beta-Carboline MAOIs are only slightly soluble in water, whereas nicotine is highly soluble in water. Washing it will wash away the nicotine and leave most of the MAOIs behind, that is, the questionable part of the experiment will be amplified in relation to the advised properties you want (nicotine). If you insist on doing a wash, using boiling water would be preferable. Nicotine's solubility in water goes down after 60C, while ostensibly (although I don't know for sure) the solubility of beta-carbolines continues to rise, so boiling water would maintain the best ratio of nicotine to beta-carboline...although I would imagine the beta-carboline to nicotine ratio would be still higher than by not washing it.

I would be very careful altering things that you are unfamiliar with. It can have mixed effects. Ergot, for instance has around 30 alkaloids. The only "safe" ones are water soluble. The poisonous and deadly ones are not soluble in water. When you start taking solvent fractions of organic mixtures, only do so when you are absolutely sure of what you are doing. I can think of one NHT application that is the reverse, the water fraction is undesirable, the non-polar fraction is desirable.

Just try it for the love of Pete.

[r1v3th3ad]

I'm all for trying it, just a lil bit concerned after what you posted. I've tried a lot of ethnobotanicals in my day, this being one of them. But now I'm concerned about the MAOIs and the possibility of reaction with my psychotropic medication.

I'm thinking of talking to a pharmacist about it...my uncle is one and can be a trusted source, just don't know how much he'll believe me when I tell him its tobacco...

I think overall, I'm still going for the gold. If I find out that it will cause problems with my medication, then I'll just make it for those that are daring.

...Eric, would you like some?

[evilded777]

Wow... this got deep quick.

[Rani]

[quote name='Sonthert' date='28 January 2010 - 03:38 AM' timestamp='1264678716' post='448115']
Have fun, and good luck. I should just add...for Tangiers, I use below average nicotine tobacco.[b] Using even average to above average nicotine tobacco is nasty. [/b]I can't imagine using even low nicotine Rustica. Quite unsuitable. Sorry my memory's a little fuzzy on some of the details. Maybe Wiki has something useful to say?
[/quote]

Uh, yeah..... In smoke ceremonies it tastes pretty lousy. Not remotely like we've come to expect pipe tobacco to taste like. More like the 5th Infantry stomped through your mouth on it's way to the Gulf and by the way the bad taste doesn't go away for a while. So I wouldn't expect a great tasting shisha. But you're doing it for effect anyway not taste.

'Rani

[dizzbizz]

[quote name='evilded777' date='28 January 2010 - 05:10 PM' timestamp='1264723821' post='448219']
Wow... this got deep quick.
[/quote]

Thats what she said

[Travis]

[quote name='Sonthert' date='28 January 2010 - 05:38 AM' timestamp='1264678716' post='448115']
#1, Nicotiana Rustica is nominally higher in nicotine. It is typically 4-8% nicotine, where Nicotiana Tabacum is .75-5% nicotine.

#2, IF N. Rustica contains higher nicotine amounts, it presumably contains higher amounts of Harmine, Harmaline and other MAO-A and MAO-B Inhibitors. This is dangerous at best. If you are diabetic, especially if you take insulin, you should avoid this. Avoid eating foods containing tyramine, which include foods that are aged, brewed or preserved. This includes, but is not limited to dairy products, fish, pork, beer, wine, liquor, pickles or foods stored in vinegar...not to mention vinegar itself. Soy Sauce, Teriyaki Sauce, legumes (beans, peas, peanuts), hard or semi-soft cheeses, yogurt. Smoked, canned or preserved meats of all kinds. Bacon or other salted meats. Some citrus fruits are on the no-no list, as well as all dried fruits, like apricots, figs and raisins. Avoid also if you are taking other MAO inhibitors or other prescriptions. Also, soy beans and tofu are no-no. Soybeans are loaded with tyramine. Packaged lunch meats are probably high in tyramine too.

#3 The ingestion of these chemicals (MAO Inhibitors) can cause ataxic reactions and hallucinations. It can cause critical hypertensive crises, especially if consumed in conjunction with tyramine containing foods as listed above. Avoid if you have high blood pressure or are taking medication for blood pressure. Do not take if you are consuming brewer's yeast or other vitamin-B supplements or over-the-counter vitamins that may contain vitamin B (from Brewer's Yeast).

#4 Avoid consuming other NHT substances that are amine bearing. Unfortunately, due to Forum rules, I can not go into details about which to avoid, Do not use if you take prescriptions stimulants, especially for ADD or ADHD. This is very important and can be life threatening. Do not consume anti-histamines or other products especially ones containing diphenhydramine (Re: Benadryl). Certain nuts and tropical fruits are also on the list to avoid, but I don't know which off the top of my head. I think coconuts, mangoes, papayas and bananas, but don't quote me on that. Do not eat strange cacti at the same time. Members of the Genus Opuntia, the most common ones eaten (Nopales) are OK, but other ones, especially illegal ones are strictly no-no.

Essentially, what's going on here, is MAOs regulate amines in your body. MAO is one of your body's chemical defensive systems. Some foods you normally eat contain amines, some of which are hazardous if they lurk around too long in your body. Tyramine causes increases in blood pressure. Many foods we eat all the time have tyramine in them. An MAO inhibitor comes along and ties up your body's defensive systems, so the normally present amines linger longer and have a more pronounced effect. In the case of foods containing Tyramine, you might have a slight increase in blood pressure normally from eating foods with this stuff in. If you consume MAO Inhibitors, it slows your bodies response to these otherwise innocuous chemicals. MAO Inhibitors in conjunction with large amounts of Tyramine can cause large increases in blood pressure.

I think chocolate either contains MAO Inhibitors of its own or has other chemicals in it, other than tyramine that can cause adverse reactions in the presence of MAOs...it should be avoided too.

Have fun, and good luck. I should just add...for Tangiers, I use below average nicotine tobacco. Using even average to above average nicotine tobacco is nasty. I can't imagine using even low nicotine Rustica. Quite unsuitable. Sorry my memory's a little fuzzy on some of the details. Maybe Wiki has something useful to say?
[/quote]

Eric - President of Tangiers, Aka Sonthert, Aka FDA Agent

Anyways i think this sounds pretty interesting.
Im always up for trying new things so let us know how it goes!

P.S. I have a NHT (Non-Hookah Tobacco) shop in my area, d'ya think they would carry something like this?

Edit: Had to go back and capitalize Tangiers .............mmmmmmmmmmmmm Tangiers Edited January 29, 2010 by tpatt90

[Jeff_T]

[quote name='dizzbizz' date='28 January 2010 - 05:26 PM' timestamp='1264728383' post='448232']
[quote name='evilded777' date='28 January 2010 - 05:10 PM' timestamp='1264723821' post='448219']
Wow... this got deep quick.
[/quote]

Thats what she said
[/quote]
Haha, well done.
This does sound pretty crazy though. If you do try this Pat, make sure to have someone with you, preferably not partaking in case things go south. Also, if possible, maybe document (video) the experience/experiment.