Jaffi Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Hey there Since I am smoking Tangiers for a few weeks now I am asking myself if it would make any sense to smoke other tobacco brands with the same traditional packing, aka tobacco gets in touch with the foil, no space between tobacco and foil. Before I started smoking tangiers, I mostly packed my funnel bowl to a bit below the rim, added a sheet of foil and poked small holes (none over the funnel itself). Do you think it would make sense to overpack other brands (besides nakhla)? If so, which ones? Do you think it would work with Jm's, Starbuzz etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryno Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Whether I pack the bowl like a Tangiers/Nakhla bowl, or fluff in some fusion or AF, my shisha always touches the foil. I'm not sure where this thing of shisha touching the foil is a bad thing, but mine always has and it's never messed up the bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stigmatas Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 [quote name='ryno' date='08 February 2010 - 06:29 PM' timestamp='1265671777' post='450461'] Whether I pack the bowl like a Tangiers/Nakhla bowl, or fluff in some fusion or AF, my shisha always touches the foil. I'm not sure where this thing of shisha touching the foil is a bad thing, but mine always has and it's never messed up the bowl. [/quote] are you being serious? or are you trolling. It seems like everyone here is very helpful. I've just never read it's ok to touche the foil... this might change the way i do things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 hes serious. I believe all shisha should touch the foil. But some should be packed lightly, most washed shishas ... SB, AF, Tonic, etc. And most unwashed Nak/Tang etc, should be packed tighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhineholt Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 If you're scared of trolls, jsut look at the post count below their names on the right. Oh, and it's fine if it touches like ryno and mattarios said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LZ22 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Just going to reiterate what has been said. Personally I have never had a noticeably worse smoke when the tobacco touches the foil. I often find it really difficult to not let the tobacco touch the foil to be honest. I think its just paranoia people have created because once someone perfects a smoke session. They will try every little tweak in the book to "make" it even better. Next thing you know, people are claiming that you have to use 100% pure glacial water from the himalayans to have a good smoke, when regular water would do just fine. My point is, it all just comes down to heat management and the packing technique (fluffier for things like fusion, tighter for nakhla, etc) but whether or not the shisha touches the foil is just a technicality I beleive. My 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudomonster Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 It really depends. For nakhla I always pack it tight, normally having the foil compress the shisha. For starbuzz I normally always leave a small gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryno Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Nope, no trolling. I've heard the "shisha shouldn't touch the foil" many of times on here, and its just never made sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilikemyusername Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 my tobacco makes love to the foil. Then I STAB it with a needle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joytron Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 It seems like if you leave a gap the foil will sag a little and eventually touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stigmatas Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 [quote name='joytron' date='08 February 2010 - 09:38 PM' timestamp='1265683121' post='450495'] It seems like if you leave a gap the foil will sag a little and eventually touch. [/quote] i appreciate everyone's sincere responses. my next question is.. if the shisha is touching the foil .. won't it burn faster and hotter. Be more likely to produce harshness? Wouldn't the coal scorch the shisha vs simmer it? When you say washed tobacco, I assume you mean "wet" molasses tobacco like AF and starbuzz? What I found after googling: "Washed shisha=washed tobacco=less nicotine (00.5) Unwashed shisha=not washed out to get rid of a majority of the nic= (0.5)" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 It depends on a lot of things, and how you pack the bowl. In general, though tobacco touching the foil isn't the end of the world...unless you mash the tobacco down and you are using a wetter washed tobacco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbt90 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 [quote name='stigmatas' date='09 February 2010 - 12:35 AM' timestamp='1265693706' post='450518'] [quote name='joytron' date='08 February 2010 - 09:38 PM' timestamp='1265683121' post='450495'] It seems like if you leave a gap the foil will sag a little and eventually touch. [/quote] i appreciate everyone's sincere responses. my next question is.. if the shisha is touching the foil .. won't it burn faster and hotter. Be more likely to produce harshness? Wouldn't the coal scorch the shisha vs simmer it? When you say washed tobacco, I assume you mean "wet" molasses tobacco like AF and starbuzz? What I found after googling: "Washed shisha=washed tobacco=less nicotine (00.5) Unwashed shisha=not washed out to get rid of a majority of the nic= (0.5)" [/quote] Wetter tobacco is exactly what it means, the tobacco is "juicier" or physically wetter, the wetness doesn't nessicarily mean it is washed or not. Normally the "premium" tobaccos such as StarBuzz are washed, some like Tangiers Noir are not but they do offer a washed alternative called Lucid. And not trying to be an ass but 00.5 and 0.5 are the same thing, I'm assuming you mean 0.005 and 0.5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stigmatas Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 [quote] Wetter tobacco is exactly what it means, the tobacco is "juicier" or physically wetter, the wetness doesn't nessicarily mean it is washed or not. Normally the "premium" tobaccos such as StarBuzz are washed, some like Tangiers Noir are not but they do offer a washed alternative called Lucid. And not trying to be an ass but 00.5 and 0.5 are the same thing, I'm assuming you mean 0.005 and 0.5? [/quote] Yea it's what I picked up from google.. I thought it was either a misprint or he was saying the difference wasn't alot if any.. trying to be sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinamon Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 i have always had my tobacco touching the foil with every brand i smoked in the past (nakhla, tangiers lucid, al fakher, starbuzz, fantasia, havana, etc) and never really had a problem. if you are smoking a brand that doesnt handle heat very well, such as al fakher, then just use double layer foil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzbizz Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 When I first started to smoke hookah I would use a screen and I could tell the difference when my shisha was touching the screen and being scorched to when it wasn't. But screens suck in general, plus I was a n00b. Now I'm more experienced and couldn't care less if my tobacco was touching the foil. I find it very hard to keep shisha from touching the foil. Makes no difference to me. And if it makes a difference to you, you need to reevaluate you're heat management and packing method. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcane Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 i've found that it depends on a few factors whether its ok for a majority, if not all, of the tobacco to push up against the foil... 1) type of tobacco used 2) packing method 3) heat method errr...i guess everything that involves packing/smoking used is a factor...haha... out of the 5 brands I smoke, AF, Starbuzz, and Fusion don't push up against the foil as much as Tangiers or Nakhla. It kinda makes sense, since the cut/appearance and the way the first 3 tobaccos smoke are relatively the same. Same goes for Tangiers and Nakhla... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename067 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 With Washed Tobacco, I like to leave a tiny bit of gap between the foil and the flavor, but with non-washed, I don't see a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoapplesplease Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 yep ,let the tobacco touch the foil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 [quote name='Codename067' date='09 February 2010 - 05:25 AM' timestamp='1265714705' post='450536'] With Washed Tobacco, I like to leave a tiny bit of gap between the foil and the flavor, but with non-washed, I don't see a problem. [/quote] x2. This has been my exact experience... Unwashed such as Tangiers and Nakhla doesn't matter if they touch, but when I tried AF and SB and other washed brands it always seemed to burn if I packed it where it touched. Then again, I only tried washed brands when I was starting out smoking hookah... So it's been a while... If I tried it now, with how much I know, it might be different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ih303 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 [quote name='INCUBUSRATM' date='09 February 2010 - 06:44 AM' timestamp='1265723051' post='450540'] [quote name='Codename067' date='09 February 2010 - 05:25 AM' timestamp='1265714705' post='450536'] With Washed Tobacco, I like to leave a tiny bit of gap between the foil and the flavor, but with non-washed, I don't see a problem. [/quote] x2. This has been my exact experience... Unwashed such as Tangiers and Nakhla doesn't matter if they touch, but when I tried AF and SB and other washed brands it always seemed to burn if I packed it where it touched. Then again, I only tried washed brands when I was starting out smoking hookah... So it's been a while... If I tried it now, with how much I know, it might be different... [/quote] I could be wrong, but I don't think this has anything to do with whether the tobacco's washed or unwashed. I think the main factor is how juicy it is. I notice I have far more issues with AF and TN bowls scorching due to syrup getting on the foil. It's especially bad when you blow out a bowl with the foil on before putting it on the hookah. It seems to push all the juices directly onto the foil so when you put the coals on, it burns fast and stinky. Anyway, I've always thought that what makes a good bowl is the effective transference of heat. When I pack a bowl, I go into it with a "more is better" perspective. My reasoning is based on the concept of conduction - densly packed bowls promote more even distribution of heat than lose bowls. This results in longer lasting, more flavorful sessions. The problem with leaving a space between the tobacco and the foil is you're trading conduction for convection - the transference of heat via a medium such as air. In my experience, this form of heating results in shorter sessions with the top layer of tobacco completely done while what's underneath is still fresh. That being said, you have to vary the density of your pack to still allow for optimal air flow. Wet tobaccos are tricky because if you overpack, you will have zero air flow. I came up with a stupid little saying a while back that I tell people new to hookah. It goes, "The jucier, the loosier." Dumb, I know. But it's catchy, damnit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 And its correct...the juicier a tobacco is, the looser it should be packed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaffi Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 So as a conclusion: You can smoke every tobacco touching the foil, but you have to consider if you pack it loosely or densely, depending on its wetness. Would you say that by your own experiences tobacco touching the foil positively impacts the intensity of the flavour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 [quote name='Jaffi' date='10 February 2010 - 10:39 AM' timestamp='1265816374' post='450761'] So as a conclusion: You can smoke every tobacco touching the foil, but you have to consider if you pack it loosely or densely, depending on its wetness. Would you say that by your own experiences tobacco touching the foil positively impacts the intensity of the flavour? [/quote] I used to be really careful not to over pack the bowl so it would not touch and it seemed to me the flavor ran out quickly. Then once when i thought i was under packing I had just compressed it really well and when it heated up it touched the foil (i figured this out when i removed the foil and saw how much was still stuck.) that session went on for 2 hours so now i make sure to fill the bowl to the top and let it touch away. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ih303 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I overpack everything. I just find it smokes better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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