Stuie Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I can't say I have seen it myself, but I have talked to several others that have seen the equipment there. They make some there from my understanding. Not sure what or how much is made there, or even if the tobacco is US grown, but I think it might be true. Who knows they may have scrapped the stuff a year ago after I heard about it and out sourced. I don't know just wanted to add that little piece of info out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hey John. Is there a problem? It seems like you received a lot of goodwill from the forum members and the forum itself, why are you taking such a negative view? I don't see anybody disparaging your company or products on here. Have you even tried it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippo_Master Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='adrock5150' date='23 February 2010 - 12:57 PM' timestamp='1266951441' post='453140'] Hey John. Is there a problem? It seems like you received a lot of goodwill from the forum members and the forum itself, why are you taking such a negative view? I don't see anybody disparaging your company or products on here. Have you even tried it? [/quote] He's taking the view of "oh jesus, another starbuzz competitor??" which is how most people should be taking it if they know what starbuzz is and how it's marketed. The tin can craze in the hookah world which has been exploding the past 8 months is actually kind of getting annoying, a new product coming out every month and absolutely getting fucked by consumers who will pay for starbuzz because they know it is better. There's not a starbuzz competitor that is better or even on par with starbuzz (jm's, royal, tonic, java... etc.) and they come around and fail miserably all the time. Like John says it is impossible to compete with starbuzz, they are the wal-martstarbucks of the hookah world, only with really, really high prices. Just because he's a vendor doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to be skeptical and/or annoyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Why? Because the can has the same shape? Beyond that, as an official retailer I find it tasteless and somewhat offensive that he would disparage a fellow online retailer on here and other forums without even trying the product. If a customer has an opinion that's one thing, but to have an actual retailer offer their opinion is unprofessional and in poor taste. [quote name='Hippo_Master' date='23 February 2010 - 12:08 PM' timestamp='1266952101' post='453141'] [quote name='adrock5150' date='23 February 2010 - 12:57 PM' timestamp='1266951441' post='453140'] Hey John. Is there a problem? It seems like you received a lot of goodwill from the forum members and the forum itself, why are you taking such a negative view? I don't see anybody disparaging your company or products on here. Have you even tried it? [/quote] He's taking the view of "oh jesus, another starbuzz competitor??" which is how most people should be taking it if they know what starbuzz is and how it's marketed. The tin can craze in the hookah world which has been exploding the past 8 months is actually kind of getting annoying, a new product coming out every month and absolutely getting fucked by consumers who will pay for starbuzz because they know it is better. There's not a starbuzz competitor that is better or even on par with starbuzz (jm's, royal, tonic, java... etc.) and they come around and fail miserably all the time. Like John says it is impossible to compete with starbuzz, they are the wal-martstarbucks of the hookah world, only with really, really high prices. Just because he's a vendor doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to be skeptical and/or annoyed. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ih303 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='adrock5150' date='23 February 2010 - 11:57 AM' timestamp='1266951441' post='453140'] Hey John. Is there a problem? It seems like you received a lot of goodwill from the forum members and the forum itself, why are you taking such a negative view? I don't see anybody disparaging your company or products on here. Have you even tried it? [/quote] It's my observation that forum members are generally more critical and discerning of products and companies in the industry than the average hookah smoker. This comes in part from the vast store of experience and knowledge shared throughout this, and other, sites. Starbuzz always comes under scrutiny around here because of their popularity despite the price and percieved quality relative to other brands. John's not criticizing SB as a competitor, he's merely voicing his opinion as a seasoned vendor who has seen the ebb and flow of trends within the industry. We can't fault him for that. And by the way, unless I missed something, he wasn't commenting on the product itself, only the fact that it was possibly just another SB spinoff. Edited February 23, 2010 by ih303 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 No, its in poor taste. He hasn't even tried it. Whats up with his $1000 dollar challenge? If he doesn't have anything nice to say he should keep his mouth shut. You haven't seen me talk shit about his coals... [quote name='ih303' date='23 February 2010 - 12:34 PM' timestamp='1266953642' post='453145'] [quote name='adrock5150' date='23 February 2010 - 11:57 AM' timestamp='1266951441' post='453140'] Hey John. Is there a problem? It seems like you received a lot of goodwill from the forum members and the forum itself, why are you taking such a negative view? I don't see anybody disparaging your company or products on here. Have you even tried it? [/quote] It's my observation that forum members are generally more critical and discerning of products and companies in the industry than the average hookah smoker. This comes in part from the vast store of experience and knowledge shared throughout this, and other, sites. Starbuzz always comes under scrutiny around here because of their popularity despite the price and percieved quality relative to other brands. John's not criticizing SB as a competitor, he's merely voicing his opinion as a seasoned vendor who has seen the ebb and flow of trends within the industry. We can't fault him for that. And by the way, unless I missed something, he wasn't commenting on the product itself, only the fact that it was possibly just another SB spinoff. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Smoke Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='HookahJohn' date='23 February 2010 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1266942641' post='453112'] [color=black][font=Verdana][size=2]i just posted this on the other forum, this ismy take: Most of you guys have the same opinion as me, there is nothing original there,i mean seriously, can you package shisha in something other than the same exactround tins. "made from scratch in arlington", samb, i don't mean to call you outbut i have heard some lies in this industry for the sake of marketing that makeme chuckle, almost puke up a bit in my mouth. i have some "insider" knowledge in this industry. don't quote this asfact as i get fed a ton of lies every day in this industry and unless you seesomething with your own eyes then don't believe it. social smoke used to be ahuge account of SB. I think Texas' biggest. In fact years ago Social Smoke wassupposed to be SB's exclusive online retailer however, that couldn't really becontrolled by anyone as SB exploded and was available everywhere. Anyways,there was some sort of "falling out", don't know why or what but SBand SS are in some type of disagreement. Now, enter SS shisha, how convenient. Same look, same feel, but for $1 less,wow, impressive. I wish them luck, really, I do, but they will need it againstSB. Something about SB you guys should know as a company. Forget whether you are afan of their product or not. They DOMINATE the market compared to any new comerthat has made any feeble attempt at copying them. Let's put Nakhla and AlFakher aside as those are "classics" that have been around for waylonger and were the only choices of shish 10 years ago for the most part. SBwas selling shisha at double price before anyone could dare to do it. SB cameup with all of these "exotic" flavors, great for marketing. SB OWNSCalifornia, just go into any smoke shop or any hookah lounge. Not only that,they OWN Michigan and New Jersey, 2 major Middle Eastern hookah smokingcommunities. Also, they have tried multiple attempts to challenge Starbuzz, notonly in CA but on there own ground, like Skyzz or 360 or whatever. Even at halfprice, in their own state competitors can't come anywhere near SB status. Therehave been a ton of crap shisha to hit the market too. I don't want to name namesince I know many of the players, ok, maybe a few...de ja vu, number 5,cleopatra, the list can go on, I'll throw out a little hint here, as a consumerand as an industry person. If you want to compete you need to bring somethingbetter to the table, not just a copy and take off a couple of bucks. You guys can check the thousands of posts I have made and you will never see mepraising starbuzz. In fact, it's not even a big seller for me. In fact, I don'tget any benefits from SB. And to prove it even more, if the owner of Starbuzzis reading I don't even like you that much[img]file:///C:\Users\CHRONI~1\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image001.gif[/img] Butrespect has to be given to innovators not replicators. Social Smoke, good luckto you, you will need it. And as far as it being 100% American made, I will betanyone of them at SS $1000 that it's not, I will go to Texas and inspect thewhole operation and report back, and if I'm a loser I will be out $1000 andapologize to SS. OK time for some morning coffee.[/size][/font][/color] [/quote] HookahJohn, Put your money where your mouth is... I see your bet and I raise you to $10,000. Social Smoke expects an apology and a $10,000 donation to The Child Foundation http://www.childfoundation.org/ upon disproving your accusations. Furthermore, I'll bet you another $10,000 that you can not produce a single invoice, email, or other document from any supplier or manufacturer to even remotely back up your claims. If you do not wish to lose $10,000 we expect an apology and a $1000 check made payable to The Child Foundation, which we will donate on your behalf. Either way, we will set the record straight. We have invited, at our expense, three well known and respected hookah personalities to tour our facility and make their own assessments of our honesty. Mushrat from Hookahforum.com Mark from Hookahwhisperer.com Sambooka from HookahPro.com I'm here to unequivocally state the following facts. There should be no doubt on any of the following: 1.Our tobacco is made 100% from scratch at our warehouse in Arlington, Texas. 2.Our recipe and formula are 100% developed from scratch and with no outside assistance. 3.We use no artificial colors or preservatives. 4.We do not wash our tobacco in any way. 5.We are a direct importer of the dry leaf to manufacture the tobacco. 6.We have been federally licensed as a tobacco manufacturer since February 2007. 7.Finally, rest assured that the tin cans are a means to an end. We've been working on a 100% custom made packaging for months and it is being finalized as we speak. It was never our intention on selling our product in tin cans. We pushed our manufacturing schedule up and tin cans are the most readily available package on the market that does not break, is not made from paper, or doesn't requires huge initial orders to be custom made. On top of that this is the ONLY style of any tin can shape that fits a 250g bag well. We did not market our new tobacco on Hookahfourm or any other forum, nor have we actively participated in online forums for years unless invited to do so. As always we appreciate the forums as a center for sharing Hookah knowledge and experiences, and value honest feedback and opinions, but feel that forum discussion shouldn't be a venue for vendors to plug their products and instead be left untainted and organic. For anyone curious about Social Smoke: Social Smoke is a family business that was established in September 2002 has been actively engaged in business since October 2003. We have worked very very hard to grow from a one man online retail website to an international distribution company. We've made it to INC magazine's [url="http://www.inc.com/inc5000/2008/company-profile.html?id=200804220"]2008 INC 500 list[/url], [url="http://www.fwbusinesspress.com/display.php?id=11147"]Fort Worth Business Press[/url], [url="http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/26/smallbusiness/hookah_entrepreneur.fsb/index.htm"]Fortune Small Biz Magazine[/url], and [url="http://money.cnn.com/video/smallbusiness/2009/08/19/s_biz_smgb_social_smoke.cnnmoney"]CNN[/url]. We alluded to our tobacco in the Fort Worth Business Press article which came out in Oct 2009: "And there’s another product line expansion on the horizon that will make its debut by the end of the year. The Nadimis just aren’t saying what that is." Bottom line we are not new comers to this industry, and we do not need help, support, or well wishes from characters like HookahJohn. We knew the owner of Starbuzz before the company had even been established, and we were the first company to market Starbuzz on the national and international market including the very states you mentioned (Michigan and New Jersey). We were also the first company to market Starbuzz online including places like this forum going back to 2005. There is no one on any forum that can educate us on Starbuzz,. We have no issues with Starbuzz, or its owner, and wish them all the best. We no longer distribute Starbuzz for obvious business reasons....We have our own tobacco and manufacturing capability. Respectfully, Abrahim Nadimi Dir of Sales and Marketing Social Smoke, Inc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Actually, I think all forum members (especially Mushrat), would like to see John give his $1000 dollars to Mushrat's cause which also benefits children; http://www.stbaldricks.org/participants/mypage/participantid/367192. With John's $1000 dollar donation Mushrat will be in the lead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ih303 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) Whew! Good stuff. Are you gonna go, Mush? Better yet, invite John to come down and check it out. Might be a good oppurtunity to bury the ol' hatchet. [img]http://www.hookahforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/Hookah.gif[/img] Edited February 23, 2010 by ih303 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBKakes Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='adrock5150' date='23 February 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1266956875' post='453159'] Actually, I think all forum members (especially Mushrat), would like to see John give his $1000 dollars to Mushrat's cause which also benefits children; http://www.stbaldricks.org/participants/mypage/participantid/367192. With John's $1000 dollar donation Mushrat will be in the lead! [/quote] John has already donated to this cause. Check the link that is sticked and see for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no longer welcome Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 i can only respond to this if adrock gives the ok, he said what i did was in poor taste so i will not continue since he owns this forum. i will be happy to respond or shut up, whatever the owners/admin of the forum feel is right. but what i can say is i need an explanation of points #1 and #5 that Abraham made. That is the question here, is it 100% made in the US or imported and processed here? That is where the bet lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Smoke Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='HookahJohn' date='23 February 2010 - 02:38 PM' timestamp='1266957512' post='453163'] i can only respond to this if adrock gives the ok, he said what i did was in poor taste so i will not continue since he owns this forum. i will be happy to respond or shut up, whatever the owners/admin of the forum feel is right. but what i can say is i need an explanation of points #1 and #5 that Abraham made. That is the question here, is it 100% made in the US or imported and processed here? That is where the bet lies. [/quote] Are you saying that to manufacture 100% made in America tobacco that we must grow tobacco leaf in our Arlington, TX warehouse? We import DRY flue cured Virgina leaf and manufacture it into a final product. Quit trying to twist this. Word games? Is that what you are resorting too? You absolutely need to continue this on this forum. You've already shown "poor character" when you made baseless allegations. Now finish the discussion. I want your apology and your donation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no longer welcome Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 no, but if you are claiming as you do on your website 100% American made, then I would assume the tobacco is at least grown in the US. You will get your apology if you can get 10 long standing hookahforum members to say that I am in the wrong on this issue. It's not word games, 100% American has a meaning and it's misleading when the product is imported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hmm, the shisha sounds interesting ... I wonder how strong it is in terms of buzz, I am a sucker for buzz even though it never lasts longer than a couple min. I will take back my statement of saying I was not excited ... because I am now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 You can say whatever you want, which is why I don't delete or edit posts. I just thought it was in poor taste to disparage another retailer based on some baseless assumption (not to mention that I stated in the same topic that I was 100% confident that they made their tobacco from scratch in Texas). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuie Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='Social Smoke' date='23 February 2010 - 02:22 PM' timestamp='1266956562' post='453156'] We have invited, at our expense, three well known and respected hookah personalities to tour our facility and make their own assessments of our honesty. Mushrat from Hookahforum.com Mark from Hookahwhisperer.com Sambooka from HookahPro.com [/quote] *COUGH* I live in Wichita Falls, TX *COUGH* Biggest reviewer on the forum *COUGH* another shameless plug *COUGH* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattarios2 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Yeah, I understand, I was just clearing up that I wasn't excited and now I am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryno Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='Stuie' date='23 February 2010 - 04:07 PM' timestamp='1266959225' post='453174'] [quote name='Social Smoke' date='23 February 2010 - 02:22 PM' timestamp='1266956562' post='453156'] We have invited, at our expense, three well known and respected hookah personalities to tour our facility and make their own assessments of our honesty. Mushrat from Hookahforum.com Mark from Hookahwhisperer.com Sambooka from HookahPro.com [/quote] *COUGH* I live in Wichita Falls, TX *COUGH* Biggest reviewer on the forum *COUGH* another shameless plug *COUGH* [/quote] Stuie would be a good to get to check it out. and I have problems with Samookas credibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no longer welcome Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 ok adrock, so let's keep it civil, actually, the claim is not baseless, i can get into that but i do know a bit about how shisha is produced, it's very hard to find a company that gets US grown tobacco to make their shisha with, not baseless a fact. it's a marketing misconception and i just want it to be clear, so now, what's your opinion of what i said? they have on their front page that it's 100% American made, yet the tobacco isn't American. Please tell me if I am being out of line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no longer welcome Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 HK, did you read the bet, it's the 2nd to last sentence in my post. I bet $1000 that it's not 100% American made, and it's not so why would I pay $1000 and apologize? Guys, am I not entitled to have an opinion about products, remember I am one of the few vendors that actually smokes hookah on a daily basis and contribute to this forum daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 If you're wrong the forum is gonna hold you to that $1000.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no longer welcome Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='Social Smoke' date='23 February 2010 - 12:51 PM' timestamp='1266958310' post='453167'] [quote name='HookahJohn' date='23 February 2010 - 02:38 PM' timestamp='1266957512' post='453163'] i can only respond to this if adrock gives the ok, he said what i did was in poor taste so i will not continue since he owns this forum. i will be happy to respond or shut up, whatever the owners/admin of the forum feel is right. but what i can say is i need an explanation of points #1 and #5 that Abraham made. That is the question here, is it 100% made in the US or imported and processed here? That is where the bet lies. [/quote] Are you saying that to manufacture 100% made in America tobacco that we must grow tobacco leaf in our Arlington, TX warehouse? [b]We import DRY flue cured Virgina leaf and manufacture it into a final product.[/b] Quit trying to twist this. Word games? Is that what you are resorting too? You absolutely need to continue this on this forum. You've already shown "poor character" when you made baseless allegations. Now finish the discussion. I want your apology and your donation. [/quote] Adam, did you read this, they are admitting it's imported. For those of you that are just looking at the word "Virginia Tobacco" and not "import" Eric please explain what Virgina tobacco really means. I feel like I've proven my point on this and don't want to continue for the sake of being negative. I am the only one who stands to lose here. Let's see how the reviews come in on this new brand, let the consumers decide, especially the consumers who have paid for the product and are not biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amn_sinclair Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 see where im concerned is where does the high price of the shisha come from? If it is made directly by social smoke where does the high price come from? i would really like to know if the cost of manufacturing the tobacco is that expensive or is the company just trying to hike the price up to make as much profit as possible? thats where my concern is. i can see where john is coming from about trying to compete with starbuzz. im not saying i agree or disagree with his statements, but a good point was made. it does come across as a shisha that is trying to compete directly with starbuzz. honestly when i first saw it i litterally thought it was something similiar to what ed hardy did with starbuzz. John is right as much as we hate to admit it and try not to admit it starbuzz is a dominating brand. most people wthat i talk to that dont really know anything about hookah ask me if i have starbuzz. This is what makes ppl think that hookah is so expensive is because of starbuzz. its the only brand thats known to ppl that dont know better. So does introducing a new brand of shisha that is in the same price range do any good? If your goal is to try and convert star buzz smokers then i dont see that happening star buzz has its awesome flavors and there are some that i enjoy, not to menntion that starbuzz is already established. And a lot of ppl like myself do like to smoke starbuzz from time to time but i will not buy large sums of it at such a ridicoulous price. i am very happy with sticking to brands that are more affordable and are that i t hink are better then sb. So if you want to compete with them y nott start way unnder priced then them as a sale price then over time reduce the sale price to the regular price. Either way if your not trying to compete with starbuzz just trying to make a new name brand y not start with a lower price and make ppl more willing to buy it then come in at such a high starting price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSU Smoker Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 just googled Virginia tobacco cause im very curious... [font=arial, sans-serif][size=2]Air-, fire-, or flue-cured tobacco that was originally grown in the US state of Virginia but is now grown around the world. ...[/size][/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amn_sinclair Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 [quote name='HookahJohn' date='23 February 2010 - 10:42 PM' timestamp='1266961327' post='453209'] [quote name='Social Smoke' date='23 February 2010 - 12:51 PM' timestamp='1266958310' post='453167'] [quote name='HookahJohn' date='23 February 2010 - 02:38 PM' timestamp='1266957512' post='453163'] i can only respond to this if adrock gives the ok, he said what i did was in poor taste so i will not continue since he owns this forum. i will be happy to respond or shut up, whatever the owners/admin of the forum feel is right. but what i can say is i need an explanation of points #1 and #5 that Abraham made. That is the question here, is it 100% made in the US or imported and processed here? That is where the bet lies. [/quote] Are you saying that to manufacture 100% made in America tobacco that we must grow tobacco leaf in our Arlington, TX warehouse? [b]We import DRY flue cured Virgina leaf and manufacture it into a final product.[/b] Quit trying to twist this. Word games? Is that what you are resorting too? You absolutely need to continue this on this forum. You've already shown "poor character" when you made baseless allegations. Now finish the discussion. I want your apology and your donation. [/quote] Adam, did you read this, they are admitting it's imported. For those of you that are just looking at the word "Virginia Tobacco" and not "import" Eric please explain what Virgina tobacco really means. I feel like I've proven my point on this and don't want to continue for the sake of being negative. I am the only one who stands to lose here. Let's see how the reviews come in on this new brand, let the consumers decide, especially the consumers who have paid for the product and are not biased. [/quote] john pointed out exactly wwhat i was going to edit into my post , i was looking at the term flue cured virginia tobbaco... its just a process of preparing the tobacco after its been harvested, flue curing and virginia tobacco is the same name for a certain process used for preparing the tobacco. there are more ways for it to be prepared but it being virginia flue cured says nothing about where it comes from. it doesnt mean that it neccarrarily comes from virgina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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