Cigarette Mail Ban Law

[Zeaken]

I dont know how big this is on a national level but obama is looking to pass on a ban onto the senecas in western new york. Basically he is going to force the senecas to pay taxes like everyone else in ny (i tried to keep that as unbiased as possible)

article: [url="http://www.buffalonews.com/2010/03/17/990680/house-vote-sends-cigarette-mailing.html?page=2#comment"]http://www.buffalonews.com/2010/03/17/990680/house-vote-sends-cigarette-mailing.html?page=2#comment[/url]

Now i am a resident of WNY, I obviously suffer from the repercussions of lost state revanue. That said i think this law is garbage. We gave them the right to sell tobacco with no tax in a treaty and we should honor it. its breaking another treaty with these guys which is just unfair. I dont even buy anything from the res simply because its out of my way and last time i checked they dont sell shisha.

The only argument i have heard is "well kids are getting cigarettes". I dont even want to get started on my tirade about how i feel about the fcc and parenting. That said in short summary is parents can watch there own kids. Our government and my tax dollars are not your kids babysitter.

please comment your opinions

[PSU Smoker]

I totally agree...kids have a million ways to get what they want. If they want cigs they will get them. if they want booze they will get it. If they want NHT or other things they will find a way to get it. The best prevention method isnt legislation but parents keeping a better eye on their kids

[Chreees]

I think the gov has more pressing issues to attend to... Like, uh, perhaps stabilizing the ECONOMY?!

Health reform, raising taxes (which in turn hurts the economy), and other things shouldn't be our primary focus right now. I'd say our biggest issues we should be dealing with right now are getting the economy better, bring the jobs back HOME (stop outsourcing), getting our asses OUT of the Middle East (which won't happen, because we're greedy bastards and want our hands all UP in that oil), and working on setting a new fuel standard to become less reliant on the Mid East for oil. Say if we used natural gas or hydrogen or electric to fuel all of our vehicles one day, the Mid East we could just leave alone... But unfortunately the oil companies are so big they've bought out the great leaders of our nation and that's only going to make it harder making the switch over to a new fuel standard.

But yeah, worrying about tobacco taxes is the least of our concerns right now...

/endrant

EDIT: And yeah, it's the parents' responsibility to watch what their kids do. I learned growing up kids will do whatever they want to anyway, so it doesn't matter. They'll find a way some how, no laws will stop them. For example, my sister is only 17 yet she simply can walk into the local gas station in my hometown and get cigarettes, no problem. Before she found out she could do that she just had her boyfriend or someone else get them for her. These laws are pointless.

/NOWendrant

[Skoozle]

Exactly. Like there was no underage smoking before the internet. In fact, as a former underage smoker, buying cigarettes online seems like one of the more time consuming and difficult way of accessing cigarettes.

[Rani]

[quote name='Zeaken' date='18 March 2010 - 09:34 AM' timestamp='1268933649' post='457927']
I dont know how big this is on a national level but obama is looking to pass on a ban onto the senecas in western new york. Basically he is going to force the senecas to pay taxes like everyone else in ny (i tried to keep that as unbiased as possible)

article: [url="http://www.buffalonews.com/2010/03/17/990680/house-vote-sends-cigarette-mailing.html?page=2#comment"]http://www.buffalone...?page=2#comment[/url]

Now i am a resident of WNY, I obviously suffer from the repercussions of lost state revanue. That said i think this law is garbage. We gave them the right to sell tobacco with no tax in a treaty and we should honor it. its breaking another treaty with these guys which is just unfair. I dont even buy anything from the res simply because its out of my way and last time i checked they dont sell shisha.

The only argument i have heard is "well kids are getting cigarettes". I dont even want to get started on my tirade about how i feel about the fcc and parenting. That said in short summary is parents can watch there own kids. Our government and my tax dollars are not your kids babysitter.

please comment your opinions


[/quote]

Sigh............ Presidents don't pass laws. Congress does. The most a President can do it to draw up a bill and present it to Congress. They have to turn it into law and his hands are tied at that point other than campaigning for it.

I'm an unabashed fan of the President and I'm sick to death of people blaming him personally for what our idiot congress has been doing. Honestly, we do the same to George W. His biggest flaw was not being able to admit when he was wrong and go in another direction. We all sit around bashing him (I'm guilty too), instead of putting the blame where it squarely belongs - on the worthless bastards in Congress fucking up the country both before and long after Bush left office.

'Rani

[Jeff_T]

[quote name='PSU Smoker' date='18 March 2010 - 11:09 AM' timestamp='1268935794' post='457938']
I totally agree...kids have a million ways to get what they want. If they want cigs they will get them. if they want booze they will get it. If they want NHT or other things they will find a way to get it. The best prevention method isnt legislation but parents keeping a better eye on their kids
[/quote]
this

+

[quote name='Rani' date='18 March 2010 - 03:58 PM' timestamp='1268953085' post='458023']
I'm an unabashed fan of the President and I'm sick to death of people blaming him personally for what our idiot congress has been doing. Honestly, we do the same to George W. His biggest flaw was not being able to admit when he was wrong and go in another direction. We all sit around bashing him (I'm guilty too), instead of putting the blame where it squarely belongs - on the worthless bastards in Congress fucking up the country both before and long after Bush left office.
[/quote]
this
= my thoughts exactly

[Rani]

A correlation to this issue came to my attention today. Everyone is using children as the excuse for passing laws that predominately reduce the person freedoms of consenting adults. Where the hell are the parents in all of this? Knowing predators are online 24/7, why would any parent let their child have unrestricted or unmonitored access to the internet in the first place? The problem is parents these days want someone else to do their job and make it easier on them. If you can't handle the responsibility, don't have the kinds in the first place damn it.

This got to me because there's a huge mess going on in Orange County where a registered sex offender still on parole has just inherited a house from his parents that he's planning on moving into. It's 150 feet from a park that used to have childrens playground equipment in it. And he's not allowed within 2000 feet of any park where children play. So the city is trying to prevent him from moving in. Even though it's not a designated play area for children any longer. Now I get that having a child abuser next door isn't exactly optimal conditions, but......... 1. The majority of abuse occurs between a child and a trusted adult they already know, often a family member. 2. The known registered sex offenders are the least of your problems. There's not very good at it, they got caught. What about all those who are first time offenders or have been successfully getting away with it for years and years? 3. Child abusers only abuse children they have access to. And if parents weren't so quick to send their children off to play on their own, there'd be a whole lot less access.

I honestly believe, and maybe I'm old fashioned about this, when you choose to have a child you are responsible for that child every single minute until the day you send them off to college. You should know everyone they know, you should see everything they see, and accompany them everywhere they go until they're old enough to make reasonable choices and defend themselves. A child abuser should never have the opportunity to get anywhere near your child, whether they're registered and live next door, or unknown and attempting to grab an unknown child off the street. And please don't anyone tell me you can't watch your children all the time, because I'm a parent and I know differently. Any time my son was alone and playing even in the backyard alone it was because I chose to allow him to be there. And I absolutely consider it pure luck that nothing ever happened to him. I certainly wouldn't make the same choices if I were to do it again. I'd be right out there in the yard with him. Because he's my responsibility every moment of every day. That's what being a parent is.

So they way I see it, if children have the opportunity to buy cigarettes off the internet, then parents aren't doing there's jobs. Don't ban cigarettes, ban bad parents.

'Rani

[Zeaken]

rani, poor wording choice i suppose. the senate and the house of rep obviously did pass this and they share in that. by saying he wanted to pass it i know he has spoken in favor of this. no i dont believe he is some sole culprit on this or whatever crazy stuff people believe our presidents to be. it had to pass a lot of people before it fell onto his desk but regardless of that he still wants it approved. is it a his fault if he signs it in? only a very small percentage. is he partially at fault? yes.

You are a fan and i am not of the man. I am not a fan because we see differently on some issues. Does that mean he cant do a good job without agreeing with my beliefs? no. I feel he has done well under the circumstances all things considered. does that mean i like him if he continues to do well? nope.

[Chreees]

I hate the MAN... Always gotta be bringin' a brotha down...

[Rani]

[quote name='Zeaken' date='19 March 2010 - 11:28 AM' timestamp='1269026901' post='458261']
rani, poor wording choice i suppose. the senate and the house of rep obviously did pass this and they share in that. by saying he wanted to pass it i know he has spoken in favor of this. no i dont believe he is some sole culprit on this or whatever crazy stuff people believe our presidents to be. it had to pass a lot of people before it fell onto his desk but regardless of that he still wants it approved. is it a his fault if he signs it in? only a very small percentage. is he partially at fault? yes.

You are a fan and i am not of the man. I am not a fan because we see differently on some issues. Does that mean he cant do a good job without agreeing with my beliefs? no. I feel he has done well under the circumstances all things considered. does that mean i like him if he continues to do well? nope.
[/quote]

I don't agree with all his issues either. Still like and admire him and what he stands for overall as a human being. Don't agree with everything Mush and Eric or Tyler or anybody else believes all the time either. Still like them though.

Nobody is ever going to agree with us on every thing 100%. It gets sticker when the person we're talking about is one who has some power over us. Whether it's the President, our boss, or even our mother and father. But if you can sit down with someone and have intelligent conversation and be confident that they will listen to your views and if they disagree tell you why they disagree, opening the road to compromise, then I believe you can genuinely say that you like that person overall. And that at least I believe is the essence of this man who happens to be our President. You'll never hear me endorsing all his decisions, but at least he's willing to explain them. How long as it been since we've seen that in any of our elected officials?

'Rani