California Anti-Smoking Nazis

[Rani]

So I'm leaving the grocery store and I get hit up by one of those guys who has a bunch of California state petitions he wants me to sign. Some I signed, but one caused an argument with me and a cigarette smoker on one side and the petition takers on the other. Here's about how it went:

[color="#FF0000"]Them: Now here's the one that will increase taxes in California on tobacco products to pay for more cancer research.[/color]
Me: I'm not signing that.
Smoker: Me either.
Me: There's already federal legislation pending that wants to raise tobacco taxes to over 70%. And you want California taxes on top of that. No. I'm not signing it.
Smoker: A pack of cigarettes is already over $8.00 in Arizona.
[color="#FF0000"]Them: But really we need it. Lung cancer is rampant, yada, yada, yada........... (Basically tobacco is the invention of Satan himself........)[/color]
Me: I have a friend who's a tobacco manufacturer in San Diego. Even if I believed in it, I wouldn't sign anything that would hurt his business. This would hurt smaller business, the big tobacco companies could care less.
Smoker: Where in San Diego?
Me. Near the college. He owns the Tangiers Tobacco company and has a lounge called Odyssey on El Cajon Blvd.
Smoker: No shit? I'm going down this weekend. I'll look him up!
[color="#FF0000"]Them: So neither of you will sign this one?[/color]
Me/Smoker: Oh, hell no!

So anyway............ My point is that now they've even standing outside grocery stores trying to drum up support to get a ballot measure going to increase our taxes in California. Bloody bastards.

'Rani

EDIT: Let me make that dirty rotten piss-ant bastards.

[Tyler]

Agree with their position or not at least they're taking an active role in changing what they don't agree with. Never see people try to combat their petitions as fervently.

[Rani]

[quote name='Tyler' date='23 March 2010 - 06:30 PM' timestamp='1269397820' post='459167']
Agree with their position or not at least they're taking an active role in changing what they don't agree with. Never see people try to combat their petitions as fervently.
[/quote]

Oh, I know. Actually they're just paid workers. Minimum wage. Not their fault - it's the "Tobacco Fee California" people who sponsored it I have beef with.

'Rani

[Tyler]

Now see, paying people to lobby for you is another thing :-\ what ever happened to people who fought for what they beleived in?

[Rani]

[quote name='Tyler' date='23 March 2010 - 06:59 PM' timestamp='1269399596' post='459181']
Now see, paying people to lobby for you is another thing :-\ what ever happened to people who fought for what they beleived in?
[/quote]

No shit. I think that was discontinued during the Roosevelt administration.

Though really these guys weren't paid to lobby, just stand outside and ask for signatures. The various petitions were all over the place. From suspending air quality controls until employment was down, to one making it possible to pass the budget with a simple majority and if not signed by the deadline they lose their own pay until we have a budget. Funny, 'cuz that one I actually wrote to the governor and suggested last time the idiots couldn't get together and the state was sending out IOU's instead of checks.

'Rani

[nars2k]

You aren't the only one who was in this position Rani, I was on Campus and I was asked to sign a petition. I read it and it said the same thing, increase tobacco tax for cancer research. I told him I would not sign it and he didn't really have much else to say.

[Rani]

[quote name='nars2k' date='23 March 2010 - 07:29 PM' timestamp='1269401397' post='459189']
You aren't the only one who was in this position Rani, I was on Campus and I was asked to sign a petition. I read it and it said the same thing, increase tobacco tax for cancer research. I told him I would not sign it and he didn't really have much else to say.
[/quote]

I'm starting to think it's that beach front healthy mindset. I'm having visions about moving down South where you can still eat pan drip gravy, carry a gun in plain view in your truck, and smoke like a chimney. And if the 'revenuers try and stop you, you just shoot 'em like varmints and hide the bodies deep in the woods.

'Rani

[bellydancerakn]

[quote name='Rani' date='23 March 2010 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1269405098' post='459211']
[quote name='nars2k' date='23 March 2010 - 07:29 PM' timestamp='1269401397' post='459189']
You aren't the only one who was in this position Rani, I was on Campus and I was asked to sign a petition. I read it and it said the same thing, increase tobacco tax for cancer research. I told him I would not sign it and he didn't really have much else to say.
[/quote]

I'm starting to think it's that beach front healthy mindset. I'm having visions about moving down South where you can still eat pan drip gravy, carry a gun in plain view in your truck, and smoke like a chimney. And if the 'revenuers try and stop you, you just shoot 'em like varmints and hide the bodies deep in the woods.

'Rani
[/quote]



Actually My friend Meghan used to live in a small town in one of the carolinas. Apparently when she left around 7 years ago, the locals were freaking out about gas going up to ONE DOLLAR A GALLON, when the rest of use were freaking out over it going to 3/gallon!!! And a pack of Marbs was under $5. But along with cheap things came rapant racism and general hickness. Yeah her neighbor refused to even talk to her (A tiny little white girl, blond hair blue eyes, 90lbs soaking wet and of irish descent) because there was a black kid in her class.

[liquidglass]

I think this is fucking retarded.


Yeah we need to raise taxes on tobacco because lung cancer is rampant. FUCK THAT.
If people are SOOOOO worried about cancer, simple solution is: stop putting shit in your body.

That's like someone eating constantly and then trying to get people to sign a petition to help cure diabetes or something similar. NO I will not support someone looking for a cure so they can continue the lifestyle they believe is hurting themsevles.

[SuburbanSmoker]

crazy people preaching in berkley have actually been ballsy enough to stand out against smoking on telegraph (which has the makority of the smoke shops in berkely). And one thing that people dont know about berkley is if you have ideas that are conservative, or against the social norms of the age group there you will be beat down. which is exactly what happend./

[bellydancerakn]

There is a reason there are no ribbons for your car for lung cancer and no walks or charity events. Those people (probably some of us in the future) brought it upon themselves. I don't feel pity for them.


Now that being said. There are SOME PEOPLE that get lung cancer who have never smoked a day in there life. My grandmother was one of those people. She had never touched cigarettes or any other tobaco product yet she did get lung cancer someway. They had to remove 3/4 of her right lung. She did live to die a few years later from other things.

However, ~80% of people with lung brought it upon themselves.

[bellydancerakn]

[quote name='liquidglass' date='24 March 2010 - 12:19 AM' timestamp='1269415141' post='459237']
I think this is fucking retarded.


Yeah we need to raise taxes on tobacco because lung cancer is rampant. FUCK THAT.
If people are SOOOOO worried about cancer, simple solution is: stop putting shit in your body.

That's like someone eating constantly and then trying to get people to sign a petition to help cure diabetes or something similar. NO I will not support someone looking for a cure so they can continue the lifestyle they believe is hurting themsevles.
[/quote]



There is a type of diabetes that some people are born with. I had a friend, total health nut. She played soccer and soft ball and did track. Ate healthy things. She was born with (I think) Type 1 diabetes. Maybe it is type 2. Anyways, she didn't lead an unhealthy lifestyle, quite the opposite but she still had diabetes.

[Charley]

[quote name='Rani' date='23 March 2010 - 11:31 PM' timestamp='1269405098' post='459211']
[quote name='nars2k' date='23 March 2010 - 07:29 PM' timestamp='1269401397' post='459189']
You aren't the only one who was in this position Rani, I was on Campus and I was asked to sign a petition. I read it and it said the same thing, increase tobacco tax for cancer research. I told him I would not sign it and he didn't really have much else to say.
[/quote]

I'm starting to think it's that beach front healthy mindset. I'm having visions about moving down South where you can still eat pan drip gravy, carry a gun in plain view in your truck, and smoke like a chimney. And if the 'revenuers try and stop you, you just shoot 'em like varmints and hide the bodies deep in the woods.

'Rani
[/quote]


so you want to be neighbors then? lol

now as for the smoking nazis .
its the tobacco companies themselves that are advocating higher taxes.
get people addicted to something then raise the price to the point that they can not afford anything but there addiction you keep them broke enough that they can not afford to find help to break the addiction. will power alone is not going to do it for most people. using patches and gum dosent work for most people and it cost more then the cigarettes so most people who go this route go right back.

and dont get me wrong I love smoking. it is one of the few things on this earth that brings me peace. I am in no way advocating anti smoking. I just wanted to make sure everyone knows these smoking nazi bastards are nothing more then pawns. remember they say in chess the queen is the most powerful piece but its not the "battle" is won by the pawns. the queen only moves in once they clear the way.

we need to get out there ourselves and petition for lower tobacco taxes.

[Venger]

[quote name='Rani' date='24 March 2010 - 12:31 AM' timestamp='1269405098' post='459211']
[quote name='nars2k' date='23 March 2010 - 07:29 PM' timestamp='1269401397' post='459189']
You aren't the only one who was in this position Rani, I was on Campus and I was asked to sign a petition. I read it and it said the same thing, increase tobacco tax for cancer research. I told him I would not sign it and he didn't really have much else to say.
[/quote]

I'm starting to think it's that beach front healthy mindset. I'm having visions about moving down South where you can still eat pan drip gravy, carry a gun in plain view in your truck, and smoke like a chimney. And if the 'revenuers try and stop you, you just shoot 'em like varmints and hide the bodies deep in the woods.

'Rani
[/quote]
It is this very shit that made me move from Rochester,NY to Knoxville Tn.cigarettes for $3.60 a pack and Nakhla for $4.99 250g. I can walk into a store with a gun in my pocket and I don't pay state income tax because it was made illegal in the state constitution.
Ray

[Chreees]

Ladies and gentlemen, don't expect to be smoking very much longer.... Atleast not without paying top-dollar for it. Our government knows what's best for us and will pass as many laws as it takes to keep us all as healthy as can be. The politicians are only looking out for you and me and the small businesses which constitute the economy of America....

NOT.

I thought this was America. Where we had freedoms and could purchase what we wished. And I thought small businesses had a right to flourish. America is being killed, one law after another. And this applies to Republicans AND Democrats. Only thing that is going to stop all this is a revolution of some sort... These two parties need to die, and we need to re-evaluate what America stands for, and what we're all about. REAL change needs to be made.

And yes, I voted for Obama believing things would turn around.

[Venger]

[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' date='24 March 2010 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1269462188' post='459326']
Ladies and gentlemen, don't expect to be smoking very much longer.... Atleast not without paying top-dollar for it. Our government knows what's best for us and will pass as many laws as it takes to keep us all as healthy as can be. The politicians are only looking out for you and me and the small businesses which constitute the economy of America....

NOT.

I thought this was America. Where we had freedoms and could purchase what we wished. And I thought small businesses had a right to flourish. America is being killed, one law after another. And this applies to Republicans AND Democrats. Only thing that is going to stop all this is a revolution of some sort... These two parties need to die, and we need to re-evaluate what America stands for, and what we're all about. REAL change needs to be made.

And yes, I voted for Obama believing things would turn around.
[/quote]
all the signs were there but no one looked at how he voted just on what he said. I have given up on both sides. I consider myself a true libertarian socially liberal but fiscally conservative. Laws that prevent individuals from doing what they want regardless as to how dangerous it is to themselves (including not having insurance) should just not be. You want to smoke fine. if you get sick be prepared to pay or die. You wanna use NHT (any kind) fine just dont drive or build my car or steal from me when your out of cash. Fiscally we need to be accountable. Roads,water,armies all cost money but bailing out banks and car companies or pet projects that put money into a few pockets of certain friends of congress we gotta stop that shit. we need to stop voting party line and vote for the best person for the job. We are the only check and balance there is.
Ray

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Rani' date='23 March 2010 - 09:26 PM' timestamp='1269397573' post='459165']
So I'm leaving the grocery store and I get hit up by one of those guys who has a bunch of California state petitions he wants me to sign. Some I signed, but one caused an argument with me and a cigarette smoker on one side and the petition takers on the other. Here's about how it went:

[color="#ff0000"]Them: Now here's the one that will increase taxes in California on tobacco products to pay for more cancer research.[/color]
Me: I'm not signing that.
Smoker: Me either.
Me: There's already federal legislation pending that wants to raise tobacco taxes to over 70%. And you want California taxes on top of that. No. I'm not signing it.
Smoker: A pack of cigarettes is already over $8.00 in Arizona.
[color="#ff0000"]Them: But really we need it. Lung cancer is rampant, yada, yada, yada........... (Basically tobacco is the invention of Satan himself........)[/color]
Me: I have a friend who's a tobacco manufacturer in San Diego. Even if I believed in it, I wouldn't sign anything that would hurt his business. This would hurt smaller business, the big tobacco companies could care less.
Smoker: Where in San Diego?
Me. Near the college. He owns the Tangiers Tobacco company and has a lounge called Odyssey on El Cajon Blvd.
Smoker: No shit? I'm going down this weekend. I'll look him up!
[color="#ff0000"]Them: So neither of you will sign this one?[/color]
Me/Smoker: Oh, hell no!

So anyway............ My point is that now they've even standing outside grocery stores trying to drum up support to get a ballot measure going to increase our taxes in California. Bloody bastards.

'Rani

EDIT: Let me make that dirty rotten piss-ant bastards.
[/quote]



Rani!!!

It appears you are straying off the liberal-reservation progressivisim+gov't=more taxes One of the true constants in the universe.

It's the camel-nose syndrome. Once a gov't entity gets a new tax, that tax is bound to go up exponentially, the public alters their behaviour and limits use of the taxed material, tax income drops, and the spending-addicted gov't has to raise the taxes. How many times have we seen that happen? It has jack to do with any cancer research, it's all about the money for stupid social programs. Edited March 25, 2010 by TheScotsman

[acolorado]

Personally, I think it's silly to tax tobacco at these rates. It's especially silly to tell people that they can't smoke in their own home. They're almost as bad as the conservatives who want to tell you what you can and can't do in your own bedroom. It's just invasive.

What I find sillier is the idea that Progressives are responsible for government spending and debt.

Let's look at our current spending. The following article links all the resources you need to verify the information. - [url="http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/08/deficit_numbers.html"]My link[/url] -

As you can see - 52% of our current deficit is a direct result of the policies put into place by Republicans when they controlled the WH, the House, and the Senate between 2000 and 2004. Iraq, Afghanistan, Medicare Plan D, and the Bush tax cuts. They took the unprecedented step of cutting taxes while fighting 2 wars - skyrocketing the deficit. Only 16% is due to Obama's policies.

Over half of the current deficit is thanks to Republicans. We wouldn't have a deficit crisis if it weren't for them.

2/3 of our current debt was run up when Republicans controlled government. Take a look at the following info - [url="http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history"]My link[/url] - and compare that to when Republicans held the White House and majorities in the House and Senate. They cut taxes and increase spending - running up the debt. The debt is like a credit card and some day we are going to have to pay it off.

What will happen to your taxes then?

The Republicans are the least fiscally responsible party in the history of America - they just push paying for their spending off onto our children and grandchildren, and try to blame everyone else for their actions.

Unlike the Bush administration and Republicans, Obama and the Democrats have insisted on making their programs payed for out of the budget. We pay for it today, instead of pushing it off on our kids. It's the right thing to do.

I for one, am all for doing the right thing, which is why I vote Democrat.

[Venger]

[quote name='acolorado' date='25 March 2010 - 02:01 PM' timestamp='1269540110' post='459569']
Personally, I think it's silly to tax tobacco at these rates. It's especially silly to tell people that they can't smoke in their own home. They're almost as bad as the conservatives who want to tell you what you can and can't do in your own bedroom. It's just invasive.

What I find sillier is the idea that Progressives are responsible for government spending and debt.

Let's look at our current spending. The following article links all the resources you need to verify the information. - [url="http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/08/deficit_numbers.html"]My link[/url] -

As you can see - 52% of our current deficit is a direct result of the policies put into place by Republicans when they controlled the WH, the House, and the Senate between 2000 and 2004. Iraq, Afghanistan, Medicare Plan D, and the Bush tax cuts. They took the unprecedented step of cutting taxes while fighting 2 wars - skyrocketing the deficit. Only 16% is due to Obama's policies.

Over half of the current deficit is thanks to Republicans. We wouldn't have a deficit crisis if it weren't for them.

2/3 of our current debt was run up when Republicans controlled government. Take a look at the following info - [url="http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history"]My link[/url] - and compare that to when Republicans held the White House and majorities in the House and Senate. They cut taxes and increase spending - running up the debt. The debt is like a credit card and some day we are going to have to pay it off.

What will happen to your taxes then?

The Republicans are the least fiscally responsible party in the history of America - they just push paying for their spending off onto our children and grandchildren, and try to blame everyone else for their actions.

Unlike the Bush administration and Republicans, Obama and the Democrats have insisted on making their programs payed for out of the budget. We pay for it today, instead of pushing it off on our kids. It's the right thing to do.

I for one, am all for doing the right thing, which is why I vote Democrat.
[/quote]
sweetie we need to talk. I wish you lived closer so we could smoke this out. You are absolutely correct when you said the republican spend like drunken sailors on shore leave but don't you believe for one minute the democrats are any better. Both are struggling for power and money to line their pockets and that of their friends and lobbyists. I know this because I lived in one of the most liberal states in the union New York.i owned a home and my property taxes were 2400 a year for less than a quarter acre and a small house. My income tax between state and fed was over 30% I only made 40k year. what we need to admit is the system as it is now is very broken and neither party want to fix it because they benefit the most from it. I don't know you or your situation but if you own a house and they are taking one third of your income to support shit you don't agree with or want it can change your attitude quickly. Again this would be so much easier over a bowl face to face. Cheers.
Ray

[Rani]

[quote name='Venger' date='25 March 2010 - 03:52 PM' timestamp='1269561128' post='459680']
[quote name='acolorado' date='25 March 2010 - 02:01 PM' timestamp='1269540110' post='459569']
Personally, I think it's silly to tax tobacco at these rates. It's especially silly to tell people that they can't smoke in their own home. They're almost as bad as the conservatives who want to tell you what you can and can't do in your own bedroom. It's just invasive.

What I find sillier is the idea that Progressives are responsible for government spending and debt.

Let's look at our current spending. The following article links all the resources you need to verify the information. - [url="http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/08/deficit_numbers.html"]My link[/url] -

As you can see - 52% of our current deficit is a direct result of the policies put into place by Republicans when they controlled the WH, the House, and the Senate between 2000 and 2004. Iraq, Afghanistan, Medicare Plan D, and the Bush tax cuts. They took the unprecedented step of cutting taxes while fighting 2 wars - skyrocketing the deficit. Only 16% is due to Obama's policies.

Over half of the current deficit is thanks to Republicans. We wouldn't have a deficit crisis if it weren't for them.

2/3 of our current debt was run up when Republicans controlled government. Take a look at the following info - [url="http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history"]My link[/url] - and compare that to when Republicans held the White House and majorities in the House and Senate. They cut taxes and increase spending - running up the debt. The debt is like a credit card and some day we are going to have to pay it off.

What will happen to your taxes then?

The Republicans are the least fiscally responsible party in the history of America - they just push paying for their spending off onto our children and grandchildren, and try to blame everyone else for their actions.

Unlike the Bush administration and Republicans, Obama and the Democrats have insisted on making their programs payed for out of the budget. We pay for it today, instead of pushing it off on our kids. It's the right thing to do.

I for one, am all for doing the right thing, which is why I vote Democrat.
[/quote]
sweetie we need to talk. I wish you lived closer so we could smoke this out. You are absolutely correct when you said the republican spend like drunken sailors on shore leave but don't you believe for one minute the democrats are any better. Both are struggling for power and money to line their pockets and that of their friends and lobbyists. I know this because I lived in one of the most liberal states in the union New York.i owned a home and my property taxes were 2400 a year for less than a quarter acre and a small house. My income tax between state and fed was over 30% I only made 40k year. what we need to admit is the system as it is now is very broken and neither party want to fix it because they benefit the most from it. I don't know you or your situation but if you own a house and they are taking one third of your income to support shit you don't agree with or want it can change your attitude quickly. Again this would be so much easier over a bowl face to face. Cheers.
Ray
[/quote]

I'm in the middle. Democrats spend to hell and back too, but insist they're doing it altruistically on behalf of the poor. (A lie.) Republicans do it all in their own interest and are disgustingly blatant about it claiming they actually have the right to screw over the public. (It's just good business.) So long as they can keep each other in check we have somewhat of a balance, but when you get polar opposites going and rhetoric flourishing for the sake of hearing themselves heard, it's a downhill slope from which there's no recovery. We're right about there right about now.

'Rani

[Rani]

[quote name='TheScotsman' date='25 March 2010 - 09:25 AM' timestamp='1269537925' post='459560']

Rani!!!

It appears you are straying off the liberal-reservation progressivisim+gov't=more taxes One of the true constants in the universe.

It's the camel-nose syndrome. Once a gov't entity gets a new tax, that tax is bound to go up exponentially, the public alters their behaviour and limits use of the taxed material, tax income drops, and the spending-addicted gov't has to raise the taxes. How many times have we seen that happen? It has jack to do with any cancer research, it's all about the money for stupid social programs.
[/quote]

Actually, I'm not really a liberal. I'm more of a "live and let live and stay the hell off my personal turf unless I give you permission to walk on it" kind of girl. If I have to be labeled, it's probably as a moderate but with a strong tendency toward repealing those laws that are obviously and patently unfair, but other than that if it ain't broke don't fix it and mostly don't get me involved when you do. If you're into astrology, I'm a Pisces but on my chart I have 8 houses in Scorpio. So kinda akin to the Stingray. Swimming withe the rest of the fish, but make sure you don't step on me and we'll generally get along just fine. Otherwise I've got no hesitation in stinging your ass.

I wish I were more consistently to the right or left because I'm always trying to find that middle ground, but we work with what we got, you know?

'Rani

[porksandwich9113]

[quote name='Rani' date='26 March 2010 - 12:09 AM' timestamp='1269580165' post='459782']
[quote name='TheScotsman' date='25 March 2010 - 09:25 AM' timestamp='1269537925' post='459560']
Rani!!!

It appears you are straying off the liberal-reservation progressivisim+gov't=more taxes One of the true constants in the universe.

It's the camel-nose syndrome. Once a gov't entity gets a new tax, that tax is bound to go up exponentially, the public alters their behaviour and limits use of the taxed material, tax income drops, and the spending-addicted gov't has to raise the taxes. How many times have we seen that happen? It has jack to do with any cancer research, it's all about the money for stupid social programs.
[/quote]

Actually, I'm not really a liberal. I'm more of a "live and let live and stay the hell off my personal turf unless I give you permission to walk on it" kind of girl. If I have to be labeled, it's probably as a moderate but with a strong tendency toward repealing those laws that are obviously and patently unfair, but other than that if it ain't broke don't fix it and mostly don't get me involved when you do. If you're into astrology, I'm a Pisces but on my chart I have 8 houses in Scorpio. So kinda akin to the Stingray. Swimming withe the rest of the fish, but make sure you don't step on me and we'll generally get along just fine. Otherwise I've got no hesitation in stinging your ass.

I wish I were more consistently to the right or left because I'm always trying to find that middle ground, but we work with what we got, you know?

'Rani



[/quote]

Actually, I'm not really a liberal. I'm more of a "live and let live and stay the hell off my personal turf unless I give you permission to walk on it".

Amen there.
I'm somewhere in the middle on the liberal/conservative scale, pretty much everyone needs to be approached with a different solution you can't just classify everything in a liberal or conservative way kind of guy.

But those petitions piss me off too.
I've been smoking cigars and hookah for over a year now, (FINALLY invested in my own hookah last week) and having several friends what are on cigarettes, these petition people annoy the hell out of me as well.