Illegal Immigration.

[Lakemonster]

What are you guys thoughts on the matter?
Right now we are looking at around 6000 Nat Guard troops will be sent to the border...... Border Patrol is hiring like mad. We have civilian groups like the Minuteman Project monitoring border areas.
Then theres talk of 'guest worker" programs and and even amnesty for those that are already in the US.
As a person living in a "border" State.. I see illegal immigrants everywhere. I truly believe they are a strain on our system. I believe they are CRIMINALS that should be treated as such. I believe that if you come here through the proper channels, that you deserve to be here.
I think catch and release of apprehended violators should end. I dont think we should burden our prison system with them, but instead, open up a labor camps like Maricopa county jail in Arizona. I thnk we should profit from theyre crime by having them work on needed projects and feeding them beans and tortillas, housed in old army tents.
I think when the 6 month sentence is up..... we dump back on the other side and see how much they want to come back in in an illegal fashion.
I fully think there should be snipers posted at reported crossing sites. I do not care if that is unsavory. I believe this is an invasion. I believe this is nothing less than a WAR that must be fought.
So... how bout it?

[DarthHookah]

you certainly have some final solutions for thie problem. although i cant help but feel they might work.
illegal immigration definitely IS a strain on our system. but remember, everyone of us has ancestors that at one point were considered "damn foreigners", and were dealt with the same hospitality as our southern neighbors.
but one question ive always wondered about- how does the president of mexico feel about his citizens desire to flee their country? id feel pretty bummed if all my people were running away...

[SanguineSolitude]

I think we should go to mexico and kill all their babys and women so
that the men who sneak over the border dont have anything they need to
support. and we should kill and torture border fugitives on sight,
preferably in as inhumane ways as possible.

know what would have been even better? if the native americans had been
well established enough to put the english/dutch/german/spanish/etc.
settlers in prison camps in a hitleresque fashion and then ship them
back to england/other when they were no longer needed. but then this is
different right? this is OUR land. its america and the indians arent
really people just like mexicans arent and as such didnt and dont
deserve human rights.

ok enough sarcasm

yes illegal immigration is a problem and yes there is a strain on the
system. but perhaps (and i know this is radical) the solution isnt to
be found in militarizing the borders as though we faced an enemy (an
invasion lake? i hardly call desperate people trying to support their
families our enemy). Instead perhaps we could pull out of expensive
wars and senseless oil company kickbacks and devote the 60 billion we
gave oil companies last year into humanitarian aid and economic grown
opportunities in third world countries. then again the U.S. doesnt
lately seem to be that into supporting non white rich republican minded
individuals, even black katrina victims so maybe im just being
ridiculous. It just seems that in a country of such excess, we should
stop bewailing how the world wants to be like us and instead try to use
our position of power to help our common man.


of course this is all just silly conjecture because its clear that
bush's god thinks non americans are inherrently sinners and can be
mowed down like cattle as they attempt to cross and imaginary boundary
our ancestors spilt their blood to keep away from the hated
"differents" down south.


this topic kind of makes me sick.

[kilgore trout]

Well, as far as illegals being a "strain" on the system, this is only partially true.  Yes, illegals do use emergency care systems without paying into our tax system, creating a greater stress on the American tax payer.  Also, there are inevitably those who come to America and commit crimes other than illegal border crossing, adding to our overcrowded jails.  However, consider our economic growth and population trends.  Illegal immigrants are filling a void in our economy, especially in the agricultural, construction, etc. sectors.  It is estimated that there are 11 million illegals in the US right now.  As of the latest economic indicators, unemployment in this country is relatively low and falling, leading one to believe that illegal immigrants and not exactly putting Americans out of work (this is overall, no need to reply with a sob story of an American losing out on a job to an illegal).  Also, population trends in western nations are such that birth levels are below the necessary 2.1 per person mark to sustain a population.  This means that the population in America will begin shrinking in the future (assuming no immigration).  As the baby boomer generation retires, the real strain on the system will come from pensions and social security, not a flood of workers from across the border.  There simply will not be enough workers to support those who have retired.  Also, the lack of a sufficient work force will seriously inhibit US economic growth.  If one were to look at the nations with the greatest economic growth at this point, it would be those with large work forces, i.e. China and India.  All this being said, the United States will need to either increase the birth rate of its legal citizens or start importing even more workers into this country in the future.  Argue for protectionism all you want, but the facts are in the economics, not in the nativism.  Does this mean that we should open the borders and let everyone in?  No, but it is false to completely discredit the contributions that illegals are making to our economy.  Rather than proposing to "kill 'em all and let God sort it out," could we try actually thinking of a rational solution that will benefit our economy and nation while actually recognizing that illegal immigrants are, in almost all instances, people who just want to work and who can contribute to America?

[Sonthert]

Deny them health care? What about a nice outbreak of Ebola or Hanta? No health care and they could become a breeding ground for the next plague!The real problems aren;t the Mexicans picking grapes. The problems are American companies and foreign "professionals" like engineers and the like who come in on 12 month Visas, and forget to leave. Moreover, many companies will only hire these scabs. These people ARE driving down the wages of the market. Construction to a lesser extent. The illegals taking the low-paying , seasonal manual labor jobs  help the economy, in the long run, in my opinion. Of course, the Congress and GWB proposed expanding programs to allow MORE of these illegal professionals in the country because some of these rich companies want more of these bargains.

[Sonthert]

Sorry, I am having this problem today, I guess.Simple solution...chain gangs. Illegal immigrants caught in this country serve five years minimum working for the US for room and board. Not to mention other convicted felons. Fine companies caught hiring illegals as a policy (not just an occasional "accident") alot...$100,000 and arrest the offending illegal.

[Lakemonster]

Tangiers is speaking my language.
Im not interested in oppressing a race of peoples. I am all for the Mexican race and Nationals of same country to better themselves. The problem is that they have decided to abandon the country instead of take it back and put in place a working system less associated with corruption. Basically trading the "eye with the beam" for the "eye with the splinter".
At least the colonists here had  enough sense to REBEL against a governement that held then back. Mexico once had a sense of pride in throwing off the oppressor...... not now. Where did that go?
Ah yes....... whitey was here last..... but the fact of the matter is that the indigenous persons inhabiting this country before whitey got here were transients themselves. Oklahoma is not the native home of the Cherokee anymore than northeast AZ is the native home of the Navajo. Generally, the population of Mexico is made up of Mestizos.... a mix of indigenous and SPANISH (pretty much whitey invaders).... SO. any claim to American soil.. is.. well...... soiled.
Lets take this beyond race and "land inheretance" issues.
The US has a set of laws that simply prohibits undocumented immigration in to this country. The laws dont make provisions for circumstance. Just cause lif eis tough on the other side of the fence doesnt give them the right to jump the fence and squat anymore than I have the right to jump the fence to a rich mans estate and set up claim.
The whole economic issue that has been presented has flaws. "We need them" mentality is false. We dont need them........ employers WANT cheap labor. Americans WILL do the job, if they can pay the bills doing it. Unless you decide to go beyond the "nuclear family"  living situation.......and live with 15 other ppl, not pay taxes, and suck off the sytem like an illegal does, you wont cut it.
The problem lies in employer greed. Employers are making a killing in the wage money they get to pocket instead. This is the root of the vicious cycle. The price padi will be our own countries economy and our infrastructure.

[Sonthert]

Slavery has never left this country, unfortunately. Blacks were freed by Lincoln so they could go and make starvation wages as tenant farmers on, frequently, the same plantations they were enslaved on. Different peoples have performed the crappy , dirty, dangerous jobs we don't want to, the "disposable people" that are kicked and frowned upon at each turn. Now the Mexicans are at hand, and Central Americans to a lesser extent. They are generally classified as "White hispanics", to clarify. They are more related to Europeans than they are to Native Americans. The truth is, the economy has been based on "slave" labor for so long, stopping it would be disasterous. We need to pick and choose what forms impact our economy positively and which ones impact our economy negatively. We also need to go after violating businesses with the vengeance of Jobe. I don't honestly think businesses are making a killing by using illegal labor, I think they are doing it out of "neccessity" of having to compete with foreign labor markets. I believe separating the problems of immigration from the problems with the US labor market is irrelevant and pointless, if not impossible. I feel the following three variables are, in order from most impacting to least impacting, what need to be resolved, with an off-the cuff solution.1. Computers in Business have severely impacted the job market, destroying large sectors of middle class jobs and replacing them with a machine. If you say "computers don't do that" imagine if the computer were a robot of some kind and looked human...it is more apparent then, I think. Solution: tax computers used for businesses based on hard drives, processors or screens (each has its drawbacks, obviously)2. Unionization has destroyed and damaged many job sectors in the United States. Which jobs have left the US? The ones traditionally most unionized...textiles, automobiles, steel, lo-tech manufacturing. Modern unions claim great strides in improving the lives of people in the US, but only when they unionize durable job markets, ones that CAN'T leave, like truck drivers, janitors, security guards. Jobs really don;t leave the US as a matter of course, lower, non-union labor markets attract the jobs away. Which job markets haven't been as severely impacted? Non-union areas like engineering, farming, design and management. Solution: establish tax breaks, credits and government support for jobs hiring American workers. Have a  federal agency (Dept. of  Labor?)  establish  rates of pay for all types of jobs in the US, add adjustments for regions and costs of living. Make a different federal agency be responsible for greivances and wage disputes. This will bring jobs back from foreign markets. Establish penalty tariffs on goods produced in "sweat shop" countries. This will reduce the chasm in the prices of goods and attract more jobs back. 3. Illegal workers. The least significant of the three, in my opinion, but the republicans are using public misinformation to push through more reforms to help big businesses get MORE illegal workers, not less. The least impacting illegals (or even nominally beneficial) are excluded and herded off. The most impacting illegals are expanded in their ability to be here, benefitting big businesses, but further rotting away our remaining job markets. The illegals that are digging into our non-unionized areas (management, call centers, engineering, etc.) are the ones killing the economy. Make those penalties severe for both the illegal and the business. Priorities: Protect our current job markets from corrosive elements and THEN balance and neutralize factors that are driving jobs out of this country. Additional thoughts: Either destroy illegal drug trade with some VERY serious steps or, preferably, legalize it. The billions of dollars that leaves the economy for countries/drug lords hurts ALL Americans. It reduces spending in the economy, thus eliminating jobs and could destabilize our government and threaten our democracy and freedom. Thats my deeper thoughts on the whole matter.

[Lakemonster]

b.....u........m.....p...

[Scalliwag]

As a person of native American descent my take on the immigration problem started a LONG time ago. Unfortunately we did not have a border patrol at all. To hear someone of European descent talk you would think no one was here when they arrived.
While I do see and understand the perceptions to the problems of today in all honesty for me to hear the the descendants of those that stole this great land and put the indigenous people that they did not kill in reservations in a lot of ways it is nearly humorous.
Having great-great grandparents that were on the "Trail of Tears" and what happened to them I have a hard time being very sympathetic to those that make battle cries in defense of the land their fathers fought and died for.
To me in some of the cases of their ancestors that were killed it was no different than somone getting killed today trying to steal somebodys car.

I know things are much more complicated now but I also feel that a lot of people here have ancestors that got here through desperation. Many of them were not content just to be here and co-exist peacefully to better themselves. They were opportunists that wrote treaties as fast as they broke them. Each treaty was just another deceptive piece of a chess game. Trust was the Indians worst trait.
That does not make me view anybody here today as responsible but it does make me look at things in a much different light. As in many people here want their ancestors revered for fighting for the land but to kinda forget the rest of the story.
Believe it or not I am much more sympthetic to people trying to come here than many of you. None of them could have been any worse than many of your own ancestors and some of my non-Indian ancestors I'm sure.

Things need to be done by Mexico to make their country a better place to live. The individual citizens have no more control of that than I did keeping George Bush from launching a war. So I can sympothize with people that have idiots for leaders but count my blessings that I have the means to provide a good life for my family.
The 6.5 billion we spend each week to rebuild Iraq and have our guys get killed in the process is what should really be pissing people here off.
I can assure you that if we pumped an additional 350+ billion dollars into Mexico the last 4 years it would have been money a lot better spent and solved this problem we are discussing in the process. Of course we shouldn't have to do something like that.... neither in Mexico or Iraq.

Since all 19 hijackers on 911 came across the Canadian border we cannot ignore that border either. We have plenty of problems here and Mexico is not the biggest of them.

[Sayishere]

Anything illegal id bad
Or so they say

[SanguineSolitude]

its true sayishere and when shisha smoking becomes illegal we will all be immediately sent to hell.

[Scalliwag]

Great point Sangy!!! That is an argument I like to make to those that love imposing their views into other peoples. People are really quick to jump on others but when the tables turn they get a little bent.

[Sayishere]

its true sayishere and when shisha smoking becomes illegal we will all be immediately sent to hell.

So true
im not ready for hell !!
*screams*

[jonny_lech]

I see the following as being the 'real' problems of immigration. This is of course my US centric view, but I think it's applicable to our friends across the Pond.

#1 By and large alot of immigrants are hard working people. But some of the second generation that grows up here see themselves as second class and like with any impovrished group, some of them strive to be better and some of them find an allure in criminal elements. Also, for those criminals already in other countries, they have a base with which to cooperate. Right along with the smuggling of honest workers comes illegal drugs, sex slaves and other undesirables. If you're a wanted criminal, one of the most appealing things for you is to get somewhere else. Gangs from foreign countries are a threat to our stability. I'm comfortable with measures to help people become part of our society, but without a doubt I think if you're a member of a criminal organization and you're an immigrant, then there has to be stiff stiff penalties and measures of control to keep them from getting back in the system. This isn't a reaction out of some emotional desire for revenge, but rather a firm conviction that we need a MUCH stronger deterrent for criminal behavior. If you are another country's problems, we do NOT want you importing that here! I know that many have the opinion that we need to help these other places have less problems but that has two major issues:
A) Change takes TIME! Improvished nations will take at least a generation or two to transform. That doesn't address the issue as it stands NOW.
To a certain degree, a country (like a person) can only help themselves. We can do alot to promote growth through investment and other policies, but they are sovreign, and if they hang on to some wrong-headed thinking that keeps them down, there ain't nothin we can do.

#2 Immigrants always carve out a piece that reflects where they are from. That's how we can have places with wonderful resturaunts. Indeed, I doubt we would have the growing phenomenon of hookah that we all love if it wasn't for Middle Eastern communities promoting them in their cafes. But I have a concern that the borders are becoming more and more defined and that we have a country within a country. The strength of immigration in any country is the melting pot. I feel as if the current trend of extreme multi-culturalism has brought down the idea that there needs to be integration. To that end we get more and more people living in proximity with each other who find it harder to identify with each other, and that just plain brews bad feelings. Those bad feelings can and eventually WILL bubble up into conflict and xenophobia, which is terrible.

#3 In some cases, those who are already here are suffering because of loss of jobs. In the U.S. there's resentment towards Indians in the tech sector because so many of them come and work in IT. Well, we can say that it's because there's not enough workers, but if you have a long period of unemployment that argument simply doesn't hold water. I work with some of these individuals and I find some of them amiable and competent (just like any given group of people), but when Bill Gates says there's not enough tech workers, it just doesn't make sense. I'm not advocating protectionism (it doesn't work), but we have to make sure that we're using what we've got before we get new. Of course this branches in the other direction for those who do unskilled labor. If your education is low and you're going for an unskilled labor job, well there's simply that much more competition which makes it that much harder for you to find and hold a job down. I find it funny that we (the USA) keep talking about raising the minimum wage when it won't really matter if business-owners are already paying illegals under the table.

[cabanapatio]

As much as I hate to admit but these illegal immigrants are the new slaves of America. I live in Texas and theres a ton of illegal immigrants here. Without a doubt, illegal immigration has given Texas a huge boom in construction and other menial jobs.

I think the perception of illegals being mostly criminals is incorrect. They crossed the border to find a better life, not be in a prison. I truly believe the ones that commit crimes are a product of poverty and the system, not because they simply crossed a border.

Illegal immigrants do pay some taxes. The last I heard, they pay almost 10% of Social Security that they never see. A lot of them own property which equates into city taxes and other various fees. My friends from Laredo TX tell me that many of the illegals own restaurants, gas stations and other businesses...and they somehow do it and pay taxes at the same time. It sounds nuts to me. Lets not forget...they are also a HUGE consumer population.

Apparently, the turnaround time for a SS number check is around 6 months. Thats how most of the employers get away with it..


This summer I volunteered at a hospital and I got to see poverty and medicine at its worst. Ppl from all backgrounds were being turned away (for lack of insurance/money) from real treatment. By law, they have to stablize the person but not actually treat the patients. For the most part, the doctors and nurses just take vitals and MAYBE give them a prescription. Theres no real actual COST except for time and some plastic tubes. Honestly, the numbers are inflated since everything in a hospital is inflated aka 2 advil pills = $12. I honestly believe the strain caused on the medical field by illegals is exaggerated

Illegal immigration IS a problem...but its too late to deal with the ones that crossed already. I think we do need to set up a force along the border and maybe even an amnesty program to pull in taxes from the gray areas.

[critterchops]

as a beaner myself that can't speak spanish I say seal off the beaner border and make a mine field there. The ones that are here keep'em here that's our fault not taking care of the situation when we should have.But all these illegals screaming demanding to become u.s. citizens need to get their asses kicked and their hemmroids tied in a knot. Get to the end of the line bitches this is america nothing is FREE!!!

[DizzyGuy]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration...on/parkland.asp

[Lakemonster]

I think the perception of illegals being mostly criminals is incorrect. They crossed the border to find a better life, not be in a prison.

A point I will make with that is if you commit a crime by entering into this country by illegal means...... doesnt that make you a criminal?

Amnesty is actually a tough pill for me to swallow.. ... even if it is a more realistic. I dont believe in giving out pardons wholesale like that. it betrays our system of laws and justice. Also, its granting immunity to a class in a race.... which is fundementally wrong to me. Granting criminals amnesty. just not right.

For instance...... if we give illegal invaders amnesty from committing whetever list of crimes they could get charged for by coming over here illegally... say fraud....forgery...... whatever... or simply jumpin the line... then where is the group of people out there that deserve amnesty from other crimes?

What if the government tomorrow announced the following:

Tax Fraud investigations concerning years 1992-2006 are dropped. You tax cheats get a free ticket.

Sex offenders convicted between 2001 and 2003 need not notify local law enforcement upon change of residence.

Anyone who has given fraudulent information on an official government form between AUG 2004 till now gets off.


WTF?!?!?! the next thing you know everyone will feel cheated..... "why cant my DUI from 2004 get thrown out?" or "What about my misdemeanor possesion charge?"........... "Why not my outstanding parking tickets?"

Just not a good fair and just way of doing things.

[ztephen]

this is great. I never thought I would find such a deep discussion on a hookah forum.

anyways, I don't think it would benefit the US by removing all the illegal immigrants. It would overwhelm the economy by inflatation of our food products. If all were imprisoned and forced to work for the government there would be huge uproar in the mexican community and that just wouldn't pass.

I don't think fining people who hire illegal immigrants is going to work, what would happen to those that already live here.

One solution that comes to mind is deportation of all illegal immigrants who were arrested and proven to have commited a crime. and giving illegal immigrants an opportunity to get an worker visa if they pay a fine. the problem would be the cubans who get refugee status. I don't have a solution for them.

[moosepotatoes]

I dont know if someone said this, cuz I dont feel like reading everyones post, cuz I'm in a hurry and I got to pee.

Bottom line.

The wall is a little overkill, Kinky had the best I dea working with the mexican government establishing better guardposts, and dividing it into districts. But if the wall is what needs to be done, then let it be done.

Illegal immigrants are just that, ILLEGAL. They have no right here. i dont give a shit what race you are. I hate it when people say HEY LETS BUILD A BORDER ON CANADA THEN TOO! THEY COULD COME OVER!! Canada isnt the issue. It is mexico. Canadians aren't coming over in flocks. If anyone came over illegally they xshould be punished and sent out, it's just the way it is. AND! I'm not being racist, but also being from a border state you can see what alot of minority immigrants do here. They disrespect property and people. Not all of them, but many of them.

Second bottom line...
[size=18][/size]
MEXICO SHOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RULES TO COME HERE JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE! THEY ARE NOT EXEMPT!

[jonny_lech]

I don't think fining people who hire illegal immigrants is going to work, what would happen to those that already live here.  

They would leave. They come here for the jobs. Take the jobs away and they have no reason to stay, especially if the government/society is hostile.

[Sonthert]

Interesting points, Johnny.

#1: I agree only, there is a simple solution to the gangs of Mexico in this country...legalize drugs...these guys will fade away real quickly. Drug money is how most of these individuals and organizations make their money.

#3: Its real convenient to be able to blame the immigrants for our problems in the job market. I agree that there is a problem, only I think, as I posted in a previous thread that, the reasons for a loss of stable, good paying jobs in the US, from most significant impact to least significant impact: (Note this list has been expanded and revised)

1: Computers and efficient software for them.
2: Unionization keeping wages artificially high, creating an exodus of jobs to other countries.
3. Governemental policy, and governmental corruption in the process of awarding contracts to contractors.
4. Too low a tax rate and misuse of the tax dollars that are received.
5. Banking and credit card interest payments.
6. Illegal immigration.
7. Expanding gambling in America on a statewide level, whether state-run lotteries or Indian Casinos.

The "Fence Jumping Illegals", aren't the ones damaging the economy. The Latin American Immigrants they are taking shit sub-minimum-wage jobs. Sure, they pay ABOVE minimum wage, but they are only for seven months of the year, so overall, the workers are making less than minimum wage, on a yearly basis. I think its safe to say ALMOST everyone agrees that minimum wage isn't enough to afford the "American Dream". The immigrants who come in and take the good paying jobs are the ones who are hurting the economy. The Central American Illegals aren't those, for the most part. In fact, those guys jumping the fence are probably helping the economy as much or more than they are hurting, in my opinion. Keeping drugs illegal costs the economy alot more money (leaving, to buy drugs from foreign countries) than do illegal immigrants.

[jonny_lech]

Interesting points, Johnny.

#1: I agree only, there is a simple solution to the gangs of Mexico in this country...legalize drugs...these guys will fade away real quickly. Drug money is how most of these individuals and organizations make their money.

As a libertarian (notice the small l), I agree. Prohibition of anything, be it drugs, guns, or ideas is pretty much always a bad idea. If we made marajuana legal, everyone would simply go to 7-11 and it would be mass produced and so cheap and bioengineered that these guys would dissolve instantly. And think of all the tax money! I agree whole heartedly that this is the better solution, but unfortunately is not likely to happen.

#3: Its real convenient to be able to blame the immigrants for our problems in the job market. I agree that there is a problem, only I think, as I posted in a previous thread that, the reasons for a loss of stable, good paying jobs in the US, from most significant impact to least significant impact: (Note this list has been expanded and revised)

1: Computers and efficient software for them.
2: Unionization keeping wages artificially high, creating an exodus of jobs to other countries.
3. Governemental policy, and governmental corruption in the process of awarding contracts to contractors.
4. Too low a tax rate and misuse of the tax dollars that are received.  
5. Banking and credit card interest payments.  
6. Illegal immigration.
7. Expanding gambling in America on a statewide level, whether state-run lotteries or Indian Casinos.  

The "Fence Jumping Illegals", aren't the ones damaging the economy. The Latin American Immigrants they are taking shit sub-minimum-wage jobs. Sure, they pay ABOVE minimum wage, but they are only for seven months of the year, so overall, the workers are making less than minimum wage, on a yearly basis. I think its safe to say ALMOST everyone agrees that minimum wage isn't enough to afford the "American Dream". The immigrants who come in and take the good paying jobs are the ones who are hurting the economy. The Central American Illegals aren't those, for the most part. In fact, those guys jumping the fence are probably helping the economy as much or more than they are hurting, in my opinion. Keeping drugs illegal costs the economy alot more money (leaving, to buy drugs from foreign countries) than do illegal immigrants.

You make very good points and I agree partially, especially on the artificial wages via unions part. GM and Ford are getting hosed!

Cheap labor supply is important, but there's alot of immigrants taking what factory jobs remain in the United States. Point I guess that I'm making is that the influx of cheap labor is really squeezing the hell out of Americans who do not have an advanced education or skillset. I know that where I'm originally from fits this profile and consequently there's been alot of racial tension due to it, especially between African-Americans and Latin Americans.

[Dragonsmettle]

I never liked the thought of illegals. yes some help fill up jobs others dont want, but have them come over legally. But thats not even my biggest problem, what i dont like is going to a store and need a translator just to read the sign or speak to the clerk that doesnt speak english. Also i didnt like, when i worked at Hollywood Video, when someone that didnt speak english started yelling and threatening me when i didnt give them free stuff because they dont understand that a membership card is not a credit card. This has happened to me because my boss eventually translated after noticing me being yelled at. (it probably didnt help that i kept a "i could care less face" on and at chips sayin "mmm, salty" as i do often when people yell at me)