My Sb Questions Were "Answered," Technically...

[Tyler]

[indent]Ibrahim,

First of all I think it's great you're taking the time to enter into the hookah community, especially since the popularity boom of hookah in the United States -- which can be greatly accredited to Starbuzz tobacco. As someone who has smoked literally every flavor of SB multiple times and having been the first person in a few communities to try the newer flavors such as Pomberry, Fuzzy Lemonade, Flower Power and the likes I must say that I love your product. I do have a few questions for you:

1) Have you guys (gals?) every considered not using dyes in your tobacco? I know a lot of people are very turned off by dyed tobaccos and I personally love brands such as Social Smoke, that provide the richer sweeter flavors without dying my fingers red while packing a bowl. I think using a more natural approach would be better for your customers as no one really sees the tobacco once it is packed anyways.

2) Will you ever consider switching to boxed packaging or something less costly than the metal tins? This I would assume would help prices go down, and with the taxes and increases that have happened and I'm sure more are to come, would keep Starbuzz in the under $20 range.

3) What is the point in labeling EVERYTHING as "Exotic?" I personally think only certain flavors should recieve this tag, such as Starbuzz Pineapple which is easily the best Pineapple on the market. When EVERYTHING is labeled Exotic, it kind of becomes redundant.

4) Why do you often exploit women's sexuality to market your product? I know the whole "sex sells" idea seems legit but as a company that wants to remain in amiable opinions of the hookah community it seems to be kind of shooting yourself in the foot. Being an ex-manager of a hookah cafe and currently an unofficial employee of another, I hate seeing the Starbuzz posters with topless women covering their breasts with their arms. I think that if you truly believe in your product you would not have to resort to such standards of advertising.

That's all I have for now and I hope you're not offended by my questions but I beleive they are topics that deserve some attention both as a customer of your product and as someone who sells your product in my store.

Blessings,
Tyler [/indent]---------------------------------------------------

Thank you very much for the detailed msg and the penetrating questions about Starbuzz Tobacco. Starbuzz Tobacco has played a role in the growth of Hookah smoking popularity. But I want to make clear that many people played a role, many companies. We were not alone. We are honored to play the role we played but feel that our best days are ahead of us.

I am glad you have smoked so much Starbuzz. It is rare that someone who does not work with is has smoked that much.

In regards to the dye. I am not aware of Starbuzz changing its whole style and risk loosing and disappointing customers because of the dye that gets on your hand when you make the shisha. I will look more into this. But I feel the way it is made plays an important role in taste, smoke and smoothness. Starbuzz has been successful because when you smoke it, it hits with an incredible taste and thick smoke. Feed back has shown people don't mind washing their hands if the smoke and taste is amazing.

And your right no one sees the tobacco in the bowl but we don't make our shisha to be seen but to be smoked. And at this level we must stand by our product and how it smokes.

With that being said I am in full support of creating different types of hookah flavors, styles and makes.
===================================

Currently on our website we are at 20 dollars for a 250 gram can of Starbuzz. Our biggest problem has been having other people sell Starbuzz for too much, even though we do not suggest being greedy. Our customers need to be respected and not gauged. WE know we have a high end product but there is a big difference between high end and over priced.

I think Starbuzz is open to whatever is best for the customer, not just in price but in quality of shisha. So we are open to all ideas. But tin cans have so far protected our customers from weak tobacco and loss of flavor which is most important to us.

3) What is the point in labeling EVERYTHING as "Exotic?" I personally think only certain flavors should recieve this tag, such as Starbuzz Pineapple which is easily the best Pineapple on the market. When EVERYTHING is labeled Exotic, of becomes redundant.

I actually agree with you here. When i was posting up the flavors on the website I left out some exotics because exotic code 69 just didn't make as much sense to me. With that said consistency helps the customer not be overwhelmed. I think we decided to make everything exotic because of the wide level of flavors that people associate with exotic beaches and locations around the world and because of the perception of Hookah itself being exotic.

4) Why do you often exploit women's sexuality to market your product? I know the whole "sex sells" idea seems legit but as a company that wants to remain in amiable opinions of the hookah community it seems to be kind of shooting yourself in the foot. Being an ex-manager of a hookah cafe and currently an unofficial employee of another, I hate seeing the Starbuzz posters with topless women covering their breasts with their arms. I think that if you truly believe in your product you would not have to resort to such standards of advertising.

One should never minimize anyone to one aspect of there lives.

At the same time sexuality itself should not be interpreted as a negative aspect of a women's life and personality. I personally have never seen the posters your talking about. But i can also say that the Hookah industry more than any I have ever worked for has issues with claiming things are Starbuzz when they are not. Or hanging up posters that were not meant to be publicity items and were just ideas meant to stay on the photo floor.

We have begun to take control of our image with tighter control of what is legally permissible to us and what is not. And I can assure you that though physical beauty should not be under appreciated, real beauty comes from the heart and mind.

As shakira said when she was asked what the best part of her body was "her brain."


Wonderful questions. I am glad you sell our product and I am glad I am here to listen to the perceptions (not all positive) we have left you with. I assure you we do not take your business or opinions lightly.

We must continually strive to reinvent ourselves and the best way to do that is to let our customers be the mirror we measure ourselves within.

--------------------------

I'll need a while to collect my thoughts on these "answers." Very dissappointed in the response though, especially that it took 4 days.

[Tyler]

Ibrahim,

First of all I think it's great you're taking the time to enter into the hookah community, especially since the popularity boom of hookah in the United States -- which can be greatly accredited to Starbuzz tobacco. As someone who has smoked literally every flavor of SB multiple times and having been the first person in a few communities to try the newer flavors such as Pomberry, Fuzzy Lemonade, Flower Power and the likes I must say that I love your product. I do have a few questions for you:

[color="#ff0000"][color="#800080"]1) Have you guys (gals?) every considered not using dyes in your tobacco? I know a lot of people are very turned off by dyed tobaccos and I personally love brands such as Social Smoke, that provide the richer sweeter flavors without dying my fingers red while packing a bowl. I think using a more natural approach would be better for your customers as no one really sees the tobacco once it is packed anyways.[/color]

[color="#000000"][color="#0000ff"]In regards to the dye. I am not aware of Starbuzz changing its whole style and risk loosing and disappointing customers because of the dye that gets on your hand when you make the shisha. I will look more into this. But I feel the way it is made plays an important role in taste, smoke and smoothness. Starbuzz has been successful because when you smoke it, it hits with an incredible taste and thick smoke. Feed back has shown people don't mind washing their hands if the smoke and taste is amazing.

And your right no one sees the tobacco in the bowl but we don't make our shisha to be seen but to be smoked. And at this level we must stand by our product and how it smokes.

With that being said I am in full support of creating different types of hookah flavors, styles and makes.

[/color][color="#ff0000"]Well, to my knowledge, the actual food dye that is used to color the tobacco has no taste or performance altering affects, if you know of any that does please enlighten us. There are a good number of people who do not respond well to food dyes, red especially, having reported migranes, headaches, and other adverse side effects. The aesthetic part of the dye isn't important one way or another it's more the fact that there are numerous reports of dyes tobaccoes making the smoke experience they get from starbuzz less satisfying due to the dye, and amount of, that is used.[/color]
[/color]
[/color]

[color="#800080"]2) Will you ever consider switching to boxed packaging or something less costly than the metal tins? This I would assume would help prices go down, and with the taxes and increases that have happened and I'm sure more are to come, would keep Starbuzz in the under $20 range.

[/color][color="#0000ff"]Currently on our website we are at 20 dollars for a 250 gram can of Starbuzz. Our biggest problem has been having other people sell Starbuzz for too much, even though we do not suggest being greedy. Our customers need to be respected and not gauged. WE know we have a high end product but there is a big difference between high end and over priced.

I think Starbuzz is open to whatever is best for the customer, not just in price but in quality of shisha. So we are open to all ideas. But tin cans have so far protected our customers from weak tobacco and loss of flavor which is most important to us. [/color]

[color="#ff0000"]I understand that $20 is the best price you think you can offer the consumer while still turning a sizeable profit; however, the option for customers to buy product in cheaper, more efficient and enviromentally friendly packaging is becoming a growing concern for not only the average customer but retailers as well. I understand you want to present your tobacoo in the most professional and modern way, and a metal tin seems to be the most efficient way to do this -- but if the product really is the quality we have come to known and expect with SB and remains double bagged, the metal tin offers little to no functional use other than to serve as a semi-permanent means of flavor advertising. As both a customer and retailer, I would argue that using recycled cardboard boxes to house the double bagged tobacco would allow for price reduction, in addition to the price reduction that could be implimented by nixing unneeded (to our knowledge) ingredients such as dye. [/color]

[color="#800080"]3) What is the point in labeling EVERYTHING as "Exotic?" I personally think only certain flavors should recieve this tag, such as Starbuzz Pineapple which is easily the best Pineapple on the market. When EVERYTHING is labeled Exotic, it kind of becomes redundant.

[color="#0000ff"]I actually agree with you here. When i was posting up the flavors on the website I left out some exotics because exotic code 69 just didn't make as much sense to me. With that said consistency helps the customer not be overwhelmed. I think we decided to make everything exotic because of the wide level of flavors that people associate with exotic beaches and locations around the world and because of the perception of Hookah itself being exotic.

[/color][color="#ff0000"]I understand where you're coming from here on a buisness standpoint, but I always get a weird look when I say "exotic pink" or "exotic passion kiss (overkill?)." I see how it can be legitamently used for some fruits and other flavors, but some flavors just sound rediculous when prefaced by exotic [/color]



4) Why do you often exploit women's sexuality to market your product? I know the whole "sex sells" idea seems legit but as a company that wants to remain in amiable opinions of the hookah community it seems to be kind of shooting yourself in the foot. Being an ex-manager of a hookah cafe and currently an unofficial employee of another, I hate seeing the Starbuzz posters with topless women covering their breasts with their arms. I think that if you truly believe in your product you would not have to resort to such standards of advertising. [/color]

[color="#ff0000"][color="#0000ff"]One should never minimize anyone to one aspect of there lives.

At the same time sexuality itself should not be interpreted as a negative aspect of a women's life and personality. I personally have never seen the posters your talking about. But i can also say that the Hookah industry more than any I have ever worked for has issues with claiming things are Starbuzz when they are not. Or hanging up posters that were not meant to be publicity items and were just ideas meant to stay on the photo floor.

We have begun to take control of our image with tighter control of what is legally permissible to us and what is not. And I can assure you that though physical beauty should not be under appreciated, real beauty comes from the heart and mind.

As shakira said when she was asked what the best part of her body was "her brain."[/color]

[/color][color="#ff0000"]I completely agree with your statement you started to answer this question with and that seems exactly what Starbuzz has done, minimized these "exotic" women to their sexuality. Sexuality, for women or men, is nothing to think negativly of, just like you said; however, at the same time, when we are bombared by icons already in American Culture, what good is Starbuzz doing in perpetuating the negative body image so many females feel already? As a mostly arab practice, and mostly Muslim, Christian, and Jewish base in the foundation of hookah culture, should the company not be intrinsically bound to upholding the values of these religions? I do not feel that a company that sells products to, usually, a Muslim-owned cafe, should send posters of a naked woman holding her breasts puckering her lips and leaning slightly forward. Additionally, this goes beyond religion in that I hate to think that a company such as Starbuzz stoops to the level of using sex to help advertise their product when you guys claim to have such a high quality product. This isn't an attack on Starbuzz, women's sexuality, or men's sexuality -- it's more of an attack on the fact that you're helping perpetuate the message that a lot of the hookah culture is trying to fight against: a new fad that attracts the "bro" crowd, as some people have put it, but what kind of customer do you expect to attract using an ethically abiguous naked woman on the poster? Or is Starbuzz just another one of those companies that don't care as long as they turn a profit?[/color]

[Travis]

Oprah bookclub candidate over here............



Lol jk, Good job Tyler!!
They did dance around some of those questions quite a bit, but honestly im surprised that an acutal human being "answered" your questions.
But by the looks of it, SB isnt gonna change any time soon.

[TheyCallMeDave]

Yea, I gotta agree. Sounded like a "It's just the way things are" kind of response. But I think it was professional to at least respond. I think the tin can/red dye argument on their end simply shouted "we do it because people will unknowingly pay more for it".

But again, good points made on both ends, and good for you for adressing your concerns with them, I think they all have high merit, and should be taken into consideration.

[antouwan]

wow. ibrahim needs to run for a political office the way he completely danced around those questions.

[JOE]

[quote name='antouwan' date='21 April 2010 - 01:29 AM' timestamp='1271831384' post='464554']
wow. ibrahim needs to run for a political office the way he completely danced around those questions.
[/quote]

THIS

[shaffaaf27]

we have eric who takes his time and uses the community to force his business, and then we have sb who for their business on us. Don't take any community suggestions and try to spin their product being better than what we want, and being looking at that response, to high for us lowly baccy smokers

[rahl071]

Honestly, The tin can's aren't that expensive to manufacture. Take Havana. Their tobacco is not even in the same ballpark as starbuzz, but they pack it in tin and it's 10 bucks/.25kg. It's a pretty durable material, a better choice than glass imho, but I understnad about people paying more for it because of the images it projects. I don't really have a problem with that element of it though.

As he put it, the shisha is meant to be smoked, not looked at. SO WHY DYE IT.

GJ prodding a human into a response though, glad to see the community at least responding.

[agunn1231]

[quote name='rahl071' date='21 April 2010 - 12:28 AM' timestamp='1271834910' post='464566']
Honestly, The tin can's aren't that expensive to manufacture. Take Havana. Their tobacco is not even in the same ballpark as starbuzz, but they pack it in tin and it's 10 bucks/.25kg. It's a pretty durable material, a better choice than glass imho, but I understnad about people paying more for it because of the images it projects. I don't really have a problem with that element of it though.

As he put it, the shisha is meant to be smoked, not looked at. SO WHY DYE IT.

GJ prodding a human into a response though, glad to see the community at least responding.
[/quote]


+1

[thatonethere]

I thought it was funny how they say that keeping the baccy in a tin protects the customers from "weak tobacco" and "loss of flavour". Funny he should mention that....Tangiers has a TON of flavour especially after you [b]leave it out of its container for a while[/b]. Besides, I hear SB doesn't give the user a buzz anyway, so I guess the tin can theory he presented could be thrown out of the window.

[agunn1231]

I've never gotten a buzz from starbuzz....but before i even gave in to trying it, the guy working at a local middle eastern market said that is was "the caviar of shisha" i decided to try it...and wasn't impressed.

[Mr.Frosty]

Very interesting to read... But as mentioned above he claims the can is to contain the flavor, but how when it is not even air tight. I think SB tends to lose its flavor rather quickly no matter who you store it... That is what they should work on. I agree on the whole dye issue, who cares what the shisha looks liek as long as it performs, take Tangiers for instance with its very darkbrown color. It does not look verry good, but performs very well...

[Josh Hamilton]

my sb safari melon dew juices LEAKED out of the TIN!!!! RAAAAAAGGEEEEE!!!!!!!! :ireful::ireful:
if they wont change the tins then pls for St.Peterssake put a zippy lock baggy in there Edited April 21, 2010 by Josh Hamilton

[ih303]

That guy's response is just like his shisha - over-processed and artificial.

I'll be surprised if you get more from SB than that glossed over, response-in-a-can. Even though you're obviously loyal to them, you represent too small a percentage of their clientele for them to pay you any attention. If people are willing to pay $20+ for a tin of SB, why would they lower their price? If they're seeing record sales as a result of their marketing strategies (i.e. labeling, packaging, advertising), why would they change?

I think businesses (as well as people) have a tendancy to develop serious tunnel vision in their pursuit of the proverbial dollar. Money becomes their ONLY motivator. I don't like to support SB for the same reason I don't like to support Hot Topic - they're both in the business of culture exploitation. I'll continue to support the companies that honor the culture rather than cheapen it.

[Santino]

[quote name='antouwan' date='21 April 2010 - 12:29 AM' timestamp='1271831384' post='464554']
wow. ibrahim needs to run for a political office the way he completely danced around those questions.
[/quote]

You said exactly what I was going to post. This guy could run for President.

Just wash your hands, guys.

[ryno]

I'm curious as to how dye effects taste (for the better?) and smoke

[joytron]

Man every time i see a thread about Starbuzz i think to myself, i would be the first to sell out. Whatever your personal thoughts on the product they must be doing something right.

[shalowlow]

[quote name='joytron' date='21 April 2010 - 11:27 AM' timestamp='1271874438' post='464648']
Man every time i see a thread about Starbuzz i think to myself, i would be the first to sell out. Whatever your personal thoughts on the product they must be doing something right.
[/quote]

This is so true...you guys have to realize something, its all about knowing your consumer.

As much as we like to think that we know so much about shisha and we know what is good and what is not, in the end, people on this forum are a tiny tiny percentage of people that smoke shisha. And for all that you know about shisha, you probably know little about business. I can tell you that starbuzz does know how to run a business for profit. You can't hate on that. I'm surprised he even answered you.

The fact is though that this guy doesn't recognize that he's talking to someone that is not from his usual pool of consumers, so he tells him what he tells everyone.

You can't ask someone why they charge what they charge, it doesn't make sense. It's a free market people, and market drives price. Havana sells their shisha for less, but Havana doesn't sell. Starbuzz is in every tobacco store in town and it looks professional, and it tastes pretty good to a first time smoker, so it sells for what it sells for.

Basically, the only reason starbuzz would lower their prices is if its not selling. And the 20 people here can raise hell and high water and decide never to smoke starbuzz again because its so expensive.....

And starbuzz wouldn't even notice.

[shaffaaf27]

[quote name='shalowlow' date='21 April 2010 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1271877701' post='464664']
[quote name='joytron' date='21 April 2010 - 11:27 AM' timestamp='1271874438' post='464648']
Man every time i see a thread about Starbuzz i think to myself, i would be the first to sell out. Whatever your personal thoughts on the product they must be doing something right.
[/quote]

This is so true...you guys have to realize something, its all about knowing your consumer.

As much as we like to think that we know so much about shisha and we know what is good and what is not, in the end, people on this forum are a tiny tiny percentage of people that smoke shisha. And for all that you know about shisha, you probably know little about business. I can tell you that starbuzz does know how to run a business for profit. You can't hate on that. I'm surprised he even answered you.

The fact is though that this guy doesn't recognize that he's talking to someone that is not from his usual pool of consumers, so he tells him what he tells everyone.

You can't ask someone why they charge what they charge, it doesn't make sense. It's a free market people, and market drives price. Havana sells their shisha for less, but Havana doesn't sell. Starbuzz is in every tobacco store in town and it looks professional, and it tastes pretty good to a first time smoker, so it sells for what it sells for.

Basically, the only reason starbuzz would lower their prices is if its not selling. And the 20 people here can raise hell and high water and decide never to smoke starbuzz again because its so expensive.....

And starbuzz wouldn't even notice.
[/quote]


and thats the difference between bullshit and tangiers IMO

[thatonethere]

[quote name='joytron' date='21 April 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1271874438' post='464648']
Man every time i see a thread about Starbuzz i think to myself, i would be the first to sell out. Whatever your personal thoughts on the product they must be doing something right.
[/quote]


Personally, I would like to see what everybody is talking about, but I don't want to end up with something that loses flavour or gives me a headache, especially at that price. I have paid a lot for 250g of shisha without knowing what it'll taste like (bug powder from HJ to be exact), but at least I knew beforehand that Tangiers has long lasting flavour, and is a relaxing smoke. I don't know jack shit about SB, and I don't want to repeat the same mistake I've made before. I once bought a $20.00 tub of Fantasia Pink Lemonaide (200g) before I knew better. I originally bought a 50g pack for $6.00, and I thought it was really good (It was a n00b move, I know). Once I found out how much it would normally cost, I felt really pissed , and cheated. [img]http://www.hookahforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/angry.gif[/img] Now I can't even bring myself to smoke it, and it gives me headaches simply because I've learned what good shisha is supposed to be (in my opinion). I promised I wouldn't ever go down that route again unless I know what I'm getting into.

I have tried SS shisha, which is designed to compete with SB. I thought SS had some really good flavours, but for now I'll stick with SS if I want something similar but a better value price wise (I purchased it during the March discount). But I will probably try SB in the future through a trade or something like that. There's nothing wrong with trying shishas to see what every body is talking about. There are so many flavors, and brands. One of these days, I'll get to try them all, who knows.

--edit
I don't think I'll be buying any Ed Hardy shisha at all though. Edited April 22, 2010 by thatonethere

[Matto]

[quote name='Tyler' date='20 April 2010 - 08:13 PM' timestamp='1271816002' post='464494']


[color="#ff0000"][color="#000000"] [color="#ff0000"]Well, to my knowledge, the actual food dye that is used to color the tobacco has no taste or performance altering affects, if you know of any that does please enlighten us. [/color]
[/color][/color]

[/quote]


Please let us know if he responds to this, it's the exact same thing I would have said to his original reply.

[Tyler]

I am in no way badmoutning SB, they are an excellent brand, but with that being said, there are some flavors that are done better by many other brands -- just as there are some flavors of SB that no one can touch.

[Tyler]

[color="#ff0000"]Well, to my knowledge, the actual food dye that is used to color the tobacco has no taste or performance altering affects, if you know of any that does please enlighten us. There are a good number of people who do not respond well to food dyes, red especially, having reported migranes, headaches, and other adverse side effects. The aesthetic part of the dye isn't important one way or another it's more the fact that there are numerous reports of dyes tobaccoes making the smoke experience they get from starbuzz less satisfying due to the dye, and amount of, that is used.

[/color]I am not aware of these reports which makes me even more grateful to you for bringing the possibility to my mind. What kind of effects occur?




[color="red"]I understand that $20 is the best price you think you can offer the consumer while still turning a sizeable profit; however, the option for customers to buy product in cheaper, more efficient and enviromentally friendly packaging is becoming a growing concern for not only the average customer but retailers as well. I understand you want to present your tobacoo in the most professional and modern way, and a metal tin seems to be the most efficient way to do this -- but if the product really is the quality we have come to known and expect with SB and remains double bagged, the metal tin offers little to no functional use other than to serve as a semi-permanent means of flavor advertising. As both a customer and retailer, I would argue that using recycled cardboard boxes to house the double bagged tobacco would allow for price reduction, in addition to the price reduction that could be implimented by nixing unneeded (to our knowledge) ingredients such as dye. [/color]
Again i believe Starbuzz is open to anything that can positively affect the consumer. I personally am all for different types of packaging. I am going to definitely pass this suggestion on to the shisha engineers and see what they say. I will admit just as fast that presentation holds a very important factor in giving the customer a full classy hookah experience. I am not one who believes that profit is more important than quality. I do not believe that our Tin cans are a major part of our expenses. But i will check that for you and report back.

In regards to the exotic i don't ever say exotic and then the flavor name. it's Pink and guava and blue mist when i talk on it.


[color="red"]I completely agree with your statement you started to answer this question with and that seems exactly what Starbuzz has done, minimized these "exotic" women to their sexuality. Sexuality, for women or men, is nothing to think negativly of, just like you said; however, at the same time, when we are bombared by icons already in American Culture, what good is Starbuzz doing in perpetuating the negative body image so many females feel already? As a mostly arab practice, and mostly Muslim, Christian, and Jewish base in the foundation of hookah culture, should the company not be intrinsically bound to upholding the values of these religions? I do not feel that a company that sells products to, usually, a Muslim-owned cafe, should send posters of a naked woman holding her breasts puckering her lips and leaning slightly forward. Additionally, this goes beyond religion in that I hate to think that a company such as Starbuzz stoops to the level of using sex to help advertise their product when you guys claim to have such a high quality product. This isn't an attack on Starbuzz, women's sexuality, or men's sexuality -- it's more of an attack on the fact that you're helping perpetuate the message that a lot of the hookah culture is trying to fight against: a new fad that attracts the "bro" crowd, as some people have put it, but what kind of customer do you expect to attract using an ethically abiguous naked woman on the poster? Or is Starbuzz just another one of those companies that don't care as long as they turn a profit?[/color][/QUOTE]

I am going to also bring this up to the owners of Starbuzz. The critique is fair and intelligently on point. Hookah bars on a whole are not the seductive dance halls that the stereotypes make them out to be. I personally do not feel there is a balance in our advertising. One thing is we do not put men in the same context we place women at within our advertising. A diverse marketing plan would place Hookah within a more proper context for the diverse reasons we smoke. It could be as simple as Hookah smoking is more main stream now and the one nitch of hot women is not broad enough to properly advertise our product.
With that said let us be fair and also admit that polar bears have nothing to do with coca cola, panda bears have nothing to do with Chinese food, babys talking have nothing to do with trading stocks, there is no jack in the box, and the most interesting man in the world is not like our drunk friends.
I think what we really can take from your criticism is a want for more diversity and a choice in how you market Starbuzz. What I am gaining from you is that you feel overlooked. We offer you one choice of promition for a very popular product and often in a very muslim, jewish and family oriented owners society we have said "here is the poster" and often you feel. To promote Starbuzz that is the poster you must use. But you may feel a little uncomfortable putting it up (as i would). Am i right?
Starbuzz does not care about profit at any cost. We care about quality and succeding based on the right business ethics and life ethics. If i was to look back at the marketing we were connecting with a club culture, a party culture and I think it is fair to criticize a marketing campaign that you felt pigeonholed hookah into what looked like an exploitative.

[F16WarBird]

[quote name='Tyler' date='22 April 2010 - 03:16 PM' timestamp='1271938598' post='464861']
I am going to definitely pass this suggestion on to the [size="6"][u][color="#ff0000"]shisha engineers[/color][/u][/size] and see what they say.[/quote]

[img]http://www.hookahforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/shok.gif[/img]


I want to be a hookah bowl architect.

[Arcane]

[quote name='Tyler' date='22 April 2010 - 02:16 AM' timestamp='1271938598' post='464861']
[color="red"]I completely agree with your statement you started to answer this question with and that seems exactly what Starbuzz has done, minimized these "exotic" women to their sexuality. Sexuality, for women or men, is nothing to think negativly of, just like you said; however, at the same time, when we are bombared by icons already in American Culture, what good is Starbuzz doing in perpetuating the negative body image so many females feel already? As a mostly arab practice, and mostly Muslim, Christian, and Jewish base in the foundation of hookah culture, should the company not be intrinsically bound to upholding the values of these religions? I do not feel that a company that sells products to, usually, a Muslim-owned cafe, should send posters of a naked woman holding her breasts puckering her lips and leaning slightly forward. Additionally, this goes beyond religion in that I hate to think that a company such as Starbuzz stoops to the level of using sex to help advertise their product when you guys claim to have such a high quality product. This isn't an attack on Starbuzz, women's sexuality, or men's sexuality -- it's more of an attack on the fact that you're helping perpetuate the message that a lot of the hookah culture is trying to fight against: a new fad that attracts the "bro" crowd, as some people have put it, but what kind of customer do you expect to attract using an ethically abiguous naked woman on the poster? Or is Starbuzz just another one of those companies that don't care as long as they turn a profit?[/color][/QUOTE]
[quote name='Starbuzz Dude']
I am going to also bring this up to the owners of Starbuzz. The critique is fair and intelligently on point. Hookah bars on a whole are not the seductive dance halls that the stereotypes make them out to be. I personally do not feel there is a balance in our advertising. One thing is we do not put men in the same context we place women at within our advertising. A diverse marketing plan would place Hookah within a more proper context for the diverse reasons we smoke. It could be as simple as Hookah smoking is more main stream now and the one nitch of hot women is not broad enough to properly advertise our product.
With that said let us be fair and also admit that polar bears have nothing to do with coca cola, panda bears have nothing to do with Chinese food, babys talking have nothing to do with trading stocks, there is no jack in the box, and the most interesting man in the world is not like our drunk friends.
I think what we really can take from your criticism is a want for more diversity and a choice in how you market Starbuzz. What I am gaining from you is that you feel overlooked. We offer you one choice of promition for a very popular product and often in a very muslim, jewish and family oriented owners society we have said "here is the poster" and often you feel. To promote Starbuzz that is the poster you must use. But you may feel a little uncomfortable putting it up (as i would). Am i right?
Starbuzz does not care about profit at any cost. We care about quality and succeding based on the right business ethics and life ethics. If i was to look back at the marketing we were connecting with a club culture, a party culture and I think it is fair to criticize a marketing campaign that you felt pigeonholed hookah into what looked like an exploitative.
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Starbuzz Dude has a good point here. Though hookah smoking has its roots firmly planted in Indian/Arab cultures, I do not believe that Starbuzz is advertising to that particular demographic. Instead, their marketing is focused on the younger [i]western[/i] generation. Those that are more familiar with "Sex on the Beach", "Fuzzy Navel" and "Code 69". While you would rather see this activity lean more toward tradition, I feel Starbuzz is trying to make it more accessible.

I did like his retort about Coca-Cola and Polar Bears.....that was pretty cool.