Moon Landing

[Matto]

What is your opinion on the moon landing in 1969? Was it real or did America fake it? I have done a lot of research into this topic and am still not totally convinced by either side, I'd like to hear your opinions and ideas on the whole debate.

[ryno]

I think we landed and the one thing that makes me now believe the conspiracy people is when they talk about the shadows and how there must have been another light source. Did these people forget that the moon reflects light?

[Tyler]

We did. My great uncle worked for NASA.

[codpet]

We did, and myth busters proved that everything in video is accurate.

[Chreees]

I believe we landed on the moon... but there are other things in our country's history that was faked or a big conspiracy... Look at Roswell.

[Dr. B]

The technology needed to reach the moon isn't contained to just space travel. Our weapons capabilities and technological prowess of the era showed that we were more than capable. Even so, how do you explain subsequent space exploration if the entire journey was fabricated?

[Matto]

[quote name='Tyler' date='02 May 2010 - 11:55 AM' timestamp='1272822950' post='466384']
We did. My great uncle worked for NASA.
[/quote]

It is very possible that the people working for NASA were shown a live feed or video tape of the astronauts in near earth orbit. The computer systems at the time had everything needed to make up data for a fake space flight so that no one working on the ground would know that they hadn't traveled outside the Van Allen radiation belts.

[quote name='codpet' date='02 May 2010 - 12:12 PM' timestamp='1272823975' post='466389']
We did, and myth busters proved that everything in video is accurate.
[/quote]

Mythbusters got damn close to making their moon walk and other fabricated things look real, all on a budget of a few thousand dollars. NASA at the time had billions of dollars in today's money to accomplish the same thing.

[quote name='Dr. B' date='02 May 2010 - 02:59 PM' timestamp='1272833991' post='466402']
The technology needed to reach the moon isn't contained to just space travel. Our weapons capabilities and technological prowess of the era showed that we were more than capable. Even so, how do you explain subsequent space exploration if the entire journey was fabricated?
[/quote]

Our technology was significantly behind the Soviet Union at the time, they reached pretty much every space milestone first (sputnik, first live creature in space, first man in space, etc) and had logged hundreds of hours more manned space flight than we had yet they never even attempted a journey to the moon. Subsequent space travel is possible even with the moon hoax, I don't believe that the whole journey was fabricated, just possibly the moon landing.

How do you believers explain this:

The Van Allen radiation belts that I mentioned above contain high levels of radiation, yet none of the 24(i think there's been 24) astronauts from the Apollo missions have had cancer.

Our space flights had been plagued with problems prior to Apollo 13, yet the most difficult space mission in history went off without a hitch.

Just curious, I love hearing other peoples opinions on controversial topics

[K1024]

what if the russians faked all of their space time? if we were going to fake goign to the moon then why bother with researching any of that technology? we could have just faked every space launch...and if you assume that our landing on the moon was faked then you might as well assume that weve never been into space.

the real definitive answer will come the next time someone lands on the moon and brings back a rock. if it matches our moon rocks then clearly we went to the moon at some point...

[TheScotsman]

Ya, it happened.

[Click]

[quote name='Matto' date='02 May 2010 - 01:20 PM' timestamp='1272835221' post='466404']
Our technology was significantly behind the Soviet Union at the time, they reached pretty much every space milestone first (sputnik, first live creature in space, first man in space, etc) and had logged hundreds of hours more manned space flight than we had yet they never even attempted a journey to the moon. 
[/quote]

I gonna have to disagree with our technology being behind at the time.  Perhaps in the early sixties. Kennedy ran on the position that Eisenhower let a missile gap develop.  Kennedy did not find out till after he became president that if there was a missile gap at all it was the United States favor.  He fucked up and let Khrushchev know that we knew the Soviets were behind in nearly every aspect of the nuclear triad (ICBMs, manned bombers, and Sub. launched ballistic missiles). Khrushchev rushed to close the "gap" and placed Medium-range ballistic missile (MRBM) and Intermediate-range ballistic missile (IRBM) in Cuba.  Khrushchev could now hit most of the Continental United States.  

Kennedy massively ramped up both conventional and unconventional military spending in effort to stand tough against Khrushchev and the Soviet Union, like Eisenhower had done.  Kennedy after all, was the president that declared we will put a man on the moon by the end of the sixties.  It was not until détente achieved by President Nixon that we made huge cuts to our military budget and consequently may have let the Soviet Union get ahead in the space and arms race. 

[Rani]

You have to apply logic. When there's much to be gained then ruses are more likely to be used. Nobody really much cares all that much about the space program other than those directly employed by it, so it's unlikely the potential gains are enough to support the need forthe staging of a ruse. And the technology did exist to allow it to actually happen so I'd say logically, it did.

'Rani

[Karot]

Even if it was fake, which I seriously doubt, the nationalism it instilled in the people was of great significance for that time. Increasing country's morale is always important. There are a lot of points that can be addressed with this issue and I don't have the time to think about them all right now. A happy citizen is a good citizen right? While it might have been just an attempt to appease the people and put down those dirty commies, it worked didnt it? Again I realize there are flaws with this idea, but it's just something to think about. Edited May 3, 2010 by Karot

[Click]

I don't know too much about the hoax proponents and their positions on why it is fake, but wouldn't the Soviet Union have been the first to claim it as fake and staged?  And not some dude who wrote a book in the mid-70s?

[Matto]

[quote name='K1024' date='02 May 2010 - 05:26 PM' timestamp='1272842800' post='466417']
what if the russians faked all of their space time? if we were going to fake goign to the moon then why bother with researching any of that technology? we could have just faked every space launch...and if you assume that our landing on the moon was faked then you might as well assume that weve never been into space.

I think we've been to space, it was definitely possible at the time to launch a man into space, I just think that the shuttle stayed in near earth orbit instead of going to the moon.

the real definitive answer will come the next time someone lands on the moon and brings back a rock. if it matches our moon rocks then clearly we went to the moon at some point...
[/quote]

There have been numerous unmanned missions to the moon, like ones to put the mirrors up there to measure the distance so we have 100% real moon rocks. Warner von Braun went on a expedition to Antarctica in 1968, Antarctica has numerous meteorites and pieces of moon rock lodged in the ice. Why else would a rocket scientist lead an expedition there but to gather fake evidence of a moon landing?

[quote name='Rani' date='02 May 2010 - 11:08 PM' timestamp='1272863308' post='466455']
You have to apply logic. When there's much to be gained then ruses are more likely to be used. Nobody really much cares all that much about the space program other than those directly employed by it, so it's unlikely the potential gains are enough to support the need forthe staging of a ruse. And the technology did exist to allow it to actually happen so I'd say logically, it did.

'Rani
[/quote]

There was an incredible amount to be gained by faking the moon landing. One of our most beloved presidents (JFK) issued a challenge for America to land on the moon before 1970 just before he died. We were behind the Soviets in the space race and our country's morale needed a boost desperately. So by faking the moon landing we succeeded with JFK's challenge and gained the world's respect by being the first country to make it to the moon. The Apollo program ended up costing about $140 billion in today's dollars. That amount of money is quite enough to validate staging a ruse..

[Rani]

[quote name='Matto' date='03 May 2010 - 11:38 AM' timestamp='1272911911' post='466497']
[quote name='K1024' date='02 May 2010 - 05:26 PM' timestamp='1272842800' post='466417']
what if the russians faked all of their space time? if we were going to fake goign to the moon then why bother with researching any of that technology? we could have just faked every space launch...and if you assume that our landing on the moon was faked then you might as well assume that weve never been into space.

I think we've been to space, it was definitely possible at the time to launch a man into space, I just think that the shuttle stayed in near earth orbit instead of going to the moon.

the real definitive answer will come the next time someone lands on the moon and brings back a rock. if it matches our moon rocks then clearly we went to the moon at some point...
[/quote]

There have been numerous unmanned missions to the moon, like ones to put the mirrors up there to measure the distance so we have 100% real moon rocks. Warner von Braun went on a expedition to Antarctica in 1968, Antarctica has numerous meteorites and pieces of moon rock lodged in the ice. Why else would a rocket scientist lead an expedition there but to gather fake evidence of a moon landing?

[quote name='Rani' date='02 May 2010 - 11:08 PM' timestamp='1272863308' post='466455']
You have to apply logic. When there's much to be gained then ruses are more likely to be used. Nobody really much cares all that much about the space program other than those directly employed by it, so it's unlikely the potential gains are enough to support the need forthe staging of a ruse. And the technology did exist to allow it to actually happen so I'd say logically, it did.

'Rani
[/quote]

There was an incredible amount to be gained by faking the moon landing. One of our most beloved presidents (JFK) issued a challenge for America to land on the moon before 1970 just before he died. We were behind the Soviets in the space race and our country's morale needed a boost desperately. So by faking the moon landing we succeeded with JFK's challenge and gained the world's respect by being the first country to make it to the moon. [b]The Apollo program ended up costing about $140 billion in today's dollars. That amount of money is quite enough to validate staging a ruse..[/b]
[/quote]

I completely disagree. That amount of money isn't even close to enough to justify the staging of the ruse. We're talking government money. Generated and staying within the government itself other than a very few vendors. It's just not enough to risk being discovered. When you're talking government expenditures, until you get into the trillions by todays standards, you're still talking petty cash.

'Rani

[Matto]

[/quote]


I completely disagree. That amount of money isn't even close to enough to justify the staging of the ruse. We're talking government money. Generated and staying within the government itself other than a very few vendors. It's just not enough to risk being discovered. When you're talking government expenditures, until you get into the trillions by todays standards, you're still talking petty cash.

'Rani



[/quote]

With today's huge government it is petty cash yes, but in the government budget back then it was big money. The total budget outlays for 1969 were 183.6 billion. The 2010 outlays were 3028.1 billion. (both values are adjusted for inflation to put them in current dollars)

[Click]

 [quote name='Matto' date='03 May 2010 - 10:03 PM' timestamp='1272949419' post='466551']
The total budget outlays for 1969 were 183.6 billion. The 2010 outlays were 3028.1 billion. (both values are adjusted for inflation to put them in current dollars)
[/quote]

I don't think the 2010 NASA budget is 3 trillion dollars.

[Matto]

[quote name='Click' date='04 May 2010 - 12:01 AM' timestamp='1272952875' post='466554']
[quote name='Matto' date='03 May 2010 - 10:03 PM' timestamp='1272949419' post='466551']
The total budget outlays for 1969 were 183.6 billion. The 2010 outlays were 3028.1 billion. (both values are adjusted for inflation to put them in current dollars)
[/quote]

I don't think the 2010 NASA budget is 3 trillion dollars.
[/quote]

It's not, the 3 trillion is the total outlays for the entire government

[agunn1231]

I'm really on the fence here. I've looked into both theories. I just wanna know why we haven't had the desire to send more people there.

[jeremyk]

[quote name='Click' date='03 May 2010 - 03:19 AM' timestamp='1272878355' post='466470']
I don't know too much about the hoax proponents and their positions on why it is fake, but wouldn't the Soviet Union have been the first to claim it as fake and staged? And not some dude who wrote a book in the mid-70s?
[/quote]
good point click. its real man my moms been at nasa for 30 yrs Edited May 9, 2010 by jeremyk

[joytron]

[quote name='agunn1231' date='09 May 2010 - 01:31 PM' timestamp='1273437061' post='467359']
I'm really on the fence here. I've looked into both theories. I just wanna know why we haven't had the desire to send more people there.
[/quote]

Because its a giant lifeless rock.

[ryno]

[quote name='joytron' date='09 May 2010 - 08:31 PM' timestamp='1273451517' post='467371']
[quote name='agunn1231' date='09 May 2010 - 01:31 PM' timestamp='1273437061' post='467359']
I'm really on the fence here. I've looked into both theories. I just wanna know why we haven't had the desire to send more people there.
[/quote]

Because its a giant lifeless rock.
[/quote]

That and I'm pretty sure that their budget got cut tremendously to go back there and to get to Mars...

[agunn1231]

[quote name='ryno' date='09 May 2010 - 07:22 PM' timestamp='1273458148' post='467385']
[quote name='joytron' date='09 May 2010 - 08:31 PM' timestamp='1273451517' post='467371']
[quote name='agunn1231' date='09 May 2010 - 01:31 PM' timestamp='1273437061' post='467359']
I'm really on the fence here. I've looked into both theories. I just wanna know why we haven't had the desire to send more people there.
[/quote]

Because its a giant lifeless rock.
[/quote]

That and I'm pretty sure that their budget got cut tremendously to go back there and to get to Mars...
[/quote]


ahh....makes sence.

[Matto]

[quote name='jeremyk' date='09 May 2010 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1273448702' post='467370']
[quote name='Click' date='03 May 2010 - 03:19 AM' timestamp='1272878355' post='466470']
I don't know too much about the hoax proponents and their positions on why it is fake, but wouldn't the Soviet Union have been the first to claim it as fake and staged? And not some dude who wrote a book in the mid-70s?
[/quote]
good point click. its real man my moms been at nasa for 30 yrs
[/quote]

Refer to my post above, if we did fake it they most likely would have used a computer program to simulate the planned stages of the mission, so that no one besides the astronauts themselves and a few very high up officials would have known it wasn't really happening.

This Documentary ([url="http://www.bigvidpro.com/?v=o-Pqn3UsMlXMZytGO7LhaA"]A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon[/url]) has a ton of very compelling arguments against the moon landing. I'd recommend watching it to anyone who posted on this thread.

[F16WarBird]

When do we get to talk about Lord Xenu coming back to earth to wage war against the Scientologists?