Never Had Tangiers

[matias]

[quote name='insidius' date='22 May 2010 - 07:06 AM' timestamp='1274504805' post='468973']
I was literally mashing it down into the bowl.

Is it possible to pack it [i]too [/i]tightly?
[/quote]

In my experience it is possible. Packing Tangiers too tightly results in little flavour for me. As Chris said, pack it at the same density as it comes in the package. You can pack it a little tighter where it touches the edges, it helps conduction.

Regarding getting coals and amount of tobacco right, let me quote Eric (aka Sonthert, aka the Manufacturer of Tangiers):

[quote]This may sound a little complicated, but work at a rational process and you can discover how to make it great each time.

First, the most common problem for new Tangiers smokers is not enough tobacco. The second most common problem is too much charcoal. We'll work through it and find the happy medium for both.

We're going to get the amount of tobacco right and then the amount of charcoal.

In terms of the correct amount of quicklight charcoal to use:Based on a 33mm quicklight coal, for a large Tangiers bowl, use all four pieces. For a medium or a small, use 3/4 of a 33mm...or three pieces. for a mini, between 1/2 and 3/4 of a 33mm. If you are using Japanese style coal, substitute one quarter of a bar for each quarter of a 33mm quicklight coal. We'll work our way up to using that much...but we'll take it easy for a little while.

First, put the amount of Tangiers you think is the right amount in the bowl. Put foil on it and add holes to the foil in whatever way you like to put holes in the foil.

Now add about 1/3 to 1/2 the amount of charcoal you would normally put on the bowl. We're going to start with a little coal and get the amount of tobacco right and then add more charcoal later. If you like to use gunpowder disks, break them into four pieces before you light them.

How does it smoke? Give it five or ten minutes. Even if its the right amount of tobacco, it may take a little while to smooth out. If its satisfactory, but light, add another lit charcoal...if it gets harsher, remove the charcoal.

If the smoke is very thin and harsh, you don't have enough tobacco in the bowl. Take the charcoal off, carefully remove the foil and add a glob of tobacco about the size of a peanut M&M...or a pinch. For this, use tobacco from the bottom of your tub...don;t just take it off the top of the tub. Add this amount to the bowl, use the same foil, put the same amount of charcoal back on. Did it improve? Good. Repeat this, adding pinches of tobacco until the smoke stops getting thicker and more flavorful...i.e. it stops getting better. Then add a little more coal and see how its smoking then. If it gets harsh, take the coal back off. If the smoke gets thicker and better tasting, then try a little more and a little more until you find the harshness point and then back off some on the charcoal. This is the right amount of tobacco and charcoal to use.[/quote]

and a shameless plugs: to find the description of each flavour and its characteristics, you can use the website we have made: [url="http://tangiers.docbase.net/"]http://tangiers.docbase.net/[/url]

[matias]

one other thing, I know you have watched the video on youtube, but make sure you use the foil test, as the amount of tobacco you use is quite important. All this being said, and as others have pointed out, relax and don't over-think it: it is quite simple actually.

[Sonthert]

Insidius: It is possible to mash the tobacco down too much. Just try to keep to about how dense it is in the package and you should be alright.

To the Original Thread Poster: Try a couple of things, decide for yourself.

[thecoalition]

tang and af are the only tobaccos i smoke. have tried them all. nothing compares.

[Haz]

Any recomendations for the first time buyer? Gonna try and get 3x250g from HookahJohn. We normally smoke AF and Starbuzz. Anything thats smooth, flavourful and has a killer kick?

[thecoalition]

welp depends on the mood you are in so i would buy something fruity - warm - fun.

Personally Cocoa is a hit with everyone that comes to my place. I also love static starlight (grape overtones and other mystery) and if you want something spicy you can go kashmir but I would say sample before buying that. Hm...a third flavor...well blueberry if you can find it - otherwise orange soda.
other faves are lime - its like that one breakfast cereal - spearmint - summer solstice - bug powder Edited May 24, 2010 by thecoalition

[Haz]

I like the sound of spicy flavours. Atomic fireball (cinnamon, cardammon and double apple) is one of my favourite mixes.

Is the passion flavour any good? I've never had a decent one before. And the gumball flavour sounds interesting.

[Voliminal]

Well, something related to the video of Eric, why he pokes holes in the middle? I've seen most ppl not poking in the middle, and that's what's most normal, cuz we want air flow go through the tobacco, with holes on the foil over the tangiers bowl hole, most air will be sucked from there. Right?

But how comes the master of tangiers, poking like that?

[Arcane]

i forgot Eric's exact reasoning for the holes over the center except for these 3 things:

1. It allows for better airflow
2. Allows you to let the coals sit on the bowl forever without taking a pull and not having it get harsh
3. No holes means the bowl will cash out faster.

[Epoch]

With holes over the center, less suction builds up and you won't have to deal with the foil pulling down into the hole all the time.

[Arcane]

[quote name='Voliminal' timestamp='1286281056' post='483992']
Well, something related to the video of Eric, why he pokes holes in the middle? I've seen most ppl not poking in the middle, and that's what's most normal, cuz we want air flow go through the tobacco, with holes on the foil over the tangiers bowl hole, most air will be sucked from there. Right?

But how comes the master of tangiers, poking like that?
[/quote]
also, even without poking holes in the middle...the airflow doesn't travel through the tobacco...

just think about the holes in the foil in relation to the hole in the phunnel...

[Voliminal]

[quote name='Arcane' timestamp='1286308289' post='484023']
i forgot Eric's exact reasoning for the holes over the center except for these 3 things:

1. It allows for better airflow
2. Allows you to let the coals sit on the bowl forever without taking a pull and not having it get harsh
3. No holes means the bowl will cash out faster.

[/quote]
We need to know the exact reason.

1. Better airflow seems logical since you suck air directly over the bowl hole.
2. I didn't realy understand this one
3. And that is because less air goes through the tobacco? must be true, but we want air through the tabacco, cuz we want richer flavour, and not flavour with some air.

[quote name='Epoch' timestamp='1286312673' post='484034']
With holes over the center, less suction builds up and you won't have to deal with the foil pulling down into the hole all the time.
[/quote]

I've read that people who do that, are ppl that have problems with foil blocking the hole. But If you stretch the foil well, you're not going to have problems.

[quote name='Arcane' timestamp='1286315047' post='484038']
also, even without poking holes in the middle...the airflow doesn't travel through the tobacco...
[/quote]
Yes its true, but With holes, air goes straight into the hole!
[quote name='Arcane' timestamp='1286315047' post='484038']
just think about the holes in the foil in relation to the hole in the phunnel...
[/quote]
I'm trying but I ain't getting anything :/

Sorry for all that, I'm not trying to fight with any of you guys or something. I just want to make things clear in my head about that stuff.

Also, something else, what is Erics opinion about Scalliand tealight mod?

[ukhookah]

I've tried tangiers lucid. To me it wasn't all that great. I'm not bothered if a bowl don't last forever. I get bored of the flavour after an hour anyway. I just think there's too much hype on tangiers. I've smoked various brands and to me nakhla stands out the best.

I would advise, give it a try. Only way youl find out. I just find that tangiers isn't as good as what everyone says on these forums.

[Voliminal]

Never tried it but, I think most ppl here talk about Noir tangiers.

[RingsMaster]

k-cherry and m-cherry are good too, probably two of my favorites.
as for the packing i cant say that ive had any problems after figuring out how much to put in my bowls, pack that stuff really tight and apply heat accordingly, different for everyone so find your method and itshould be good to go in no time.

[ih303]

[quote name='Voliminal' timestamp='1286354643' post='484117']
[quote name='Arcane' timestamp='1286308289' post='484023']
i forgot Eric's exact reasoning for the holes over the center except for these 3 things:

1. It allows for better airflow
2. Allows you to let the coals sit on the bowl forever without taking a pull and not having it get harsh
3. No holes means the bowl will cash out faster.

[/quote]
We need to know the exact reason.

1. Better airflow seems logical since you suck air directly over the bowl hole.
2. I didn't realy understand this one
3. And that is because less air goes through the tobacco? must be true, but we want air through the tabacco, cuz we want richer flavour, and not flavour with some air.
[/quote]

1. You are correct. With holes in the center you will get more unobstructed airflow.

2. I don't necessarily agree with this as I've never noticed this benefit, but I think the theory is by poking holes in the middle of the bowl you're, in essence, [i]venting[/i] your bowl. (I could be way off here from what Eric said but it makes sense to me) I could see this making sense since when you let coals sit on a bowl without smoking the heat builds in the layer of tobacco directly under the foil until it reaches a temperature where the tobacco starts to burn. This is harshness. Putting holes in the middle of the bowl (which is generally going to be the high point) allows for that extra heat to escape instead of burning the tobacco.

3. I'm not sure what the logic is behind this one either, but I'll take a shot. Considering the "smoke" is coming primarily from the sugar base rather than the tobacco, the only way to cache a bowl is to deplete it of that sugar base (this explains why wetter tobaccos generally smoke longer and have thicker smoke). I suppose if the bowl is not vented the heat could build by conduction alone to the point where the sugar base either a) vaporizes on it's own and escapes through the other holes in the foil or boils over the holes in the foil, edge of the bowl under the foil, or top of the phunnel into the base. I've actually seen all of these things happen which I'm sure shortens the life of the bowl by depleting it of it's sugar base. I don't know if it's anything that would stand out as noticable though.

[quote name='Voliminal' timestamp='1286354643' post='484117']
[quote name='Epoch' timestamp='1286312673' post='484034']
With holes over the center, less suction builds up and you won't have to deal with the foil pulling down into the hole all the time.
[/quote]

I've read that people who do that, are ppl that have problems with foil blocking the hole. But If you stretch the foil well, you're not going to have problems.
[/quote]

But that's only part of the story.

The thicker your foil, the more taut you can get it and the more likely it will stay that way. The thing is, no matter how taut you get your foil to begin with, it will eventually slack due to the weight of the coals and the continuous pull of the vacuum pressure created in the bowl everytime you pull.

In my experience, the holes in the center don't work nearly as well as a skewer.

[quote name='Voliminal' timestamp='1286354643' post='484117']
[quote name='Arcane' timestamp='1286315047' post='484038']
also, even without poking holes in the middle...the airflow doesn't travel through the tobacco...
[/quote]
Yes its true, but With holes, air goes straight into the hole!
[quote name='Arcane' timestamp='1286315047' post='484038']
just think about the holes in the foil in relation to the hole in the phunnel...
[/quote]
I'm trying but I ain't getting anything :/

Sorry for all that, I'm not trying to fight with any of you guys or something. I just want to make things clear in my head about that stuff.

Also, something else, what is Erics opinion about Scalliand tealight mod?
[/quote]

I can't speak for Eric, but I'm not a fan of any of the mods. Every one I've tried restricts the pull in some way, and I don't like that.


What you have to remember when it comes to this kind of stuff is this: it's all a matter of personal preference. What you'll find is people will do something a certain way because they percieve it to be better for whatever reason and THEN they will come up with explanations to justify their methods. When it comes to Tangiers, I'm sure you've noticed that Eric's methods and suggestions carry a lot of weight around here. But I'll recommend to you what I always recommend to everyone - Experiment! Try stuff out! Don't just do something because someone else does it that way. Everyone has different tastes and different methods to cater to those tastes. Find your own.

[Voliminal]

Oh man, seems you spent a little time to right that stuff over there!

Read 'em all, but I ain't that good at english, at least the terms you use seems to work for google translator! I'll need to read that again!

But hey bro, thanks for the time and all that info, you realy got awesome stuff to share!

[Arcane]

agreed, ih303 is a dying breed around hookah forum...i usually get excited when he replies to thread (minus the whole Ed Hardy hookah debacle...haha, jk.). it's a good sign for intelligent discussion.

ok, i can't do the quote splitting without giving myself an aneurysm, so i'll just reference everything in my reply.

1. Understood, there's no need to elaborate.

2. Eric tried to explain the reason to my, but I think my brain was capped with all the new knowledge I received that night. ih303's explanation sounds plausible. In either case, that's what Eric told me and I'm just playing the role of a messenger for this point.

3. Eric didn't explain to me the reasoning in why the bowl lasts longer, however my theory suggests that when air is pulled through the holes in a ventilated phunnel (holes poked in the middle), a portion of the air does not make contact with the coals. This air instead is being pulled from the surrounding airspace directly into the center holes and down the stem. In the case of a "non-ventilated" phunnel, the air isn't pulled from the airspace directly above the holes. Instead, it's pulled from a general area, to include the airspace over the sealed portion of the foil. When the air is being pulled towards the bowl, the air in the center most likely gets pulled in one of two ways: a) diagonally from the center airspace to the intake of the holes or straight down and then splayed across the foil, then passing along the face of the foil and into the holes. In either case, more air is being exposed to the coals causing it to burn hotter and vaporize more of the glycerin and flavoring components.

As for holes in the foil in relation to the hole in the phunnel and air not passing through the tobacco: When given an option, most fluids will take the path of least resistance. In the case of the phunnel, there is no need for it to pass through the tobacco since the tobacco offers more resistance than traveling directly into the center hole(it's next destination). Therefore, I feel it's safe to assume that the air makes a "direct path" from the airspace above the foil down into the center whole of the phunnel and eventually into the hose and your mouth.

Hope this expounds on those points....also, don't apologize for asking these questions. Discussions like this don't happen too often nowadays. They're a very welcome change.

[ih303]

[quote name='Arcane' timestamp='1286561555' post='484395']
agreed, ih303 is a dying breed around hookah forum...i usually get excited when he replies to thread (minus the whole Ed Hardy hookah debacle...haha, jk.). it's a good sign for intelligent discussion.

ok, i can't do the quote splitting without giving myself an aneurysm, so i'll just reference everything in my reply.

1. Understood, there's no need to elaborate.

2. Eric tried to explain the reason to my, but I think my brain was capped with all the new knowledge I received that night. ih303's explanation sounds plausible. In either case, that's what Eric told me and I'm just playing the role of a messenger for this point.

3. Eric didn't explain to me the reasoning in why the bowl lasts longer, however my theory suggests that when air is pulled through the holes in a ventilated phunnel (holes poked in the middle), a portion of the air does not make contact with the coals. This air instead is being pulled from the surrounding airspace directly into the center holes and down the stem. In the case of a "non-ventilated" phunnel, the air isn't pulled from the airspace directly above the holes. Instead, it's pulled from a general area, to include the airspace over the sealed portion of the foil. When the air is being pulled towards the bowl, the air in the center most likely gets pulled in one of two ways: a) diagonally from the center airspace to the intake of the holes or straight down and then splayed across the foil, then passing along the face of the foil and into the holes. In either case, more air is being exposed to the coals causing it to burn hotter and vaporize more of the glycerin and flavoring components.

As for holes in the foil in relation to the hole in the phunnel and air not passing through the tobacco: When given an option, most fluids will take the path of least resistance. In the case of the phunnel, there is no need for it to pass through the tobacco since the tobacco offers more resistance than traveling directly into the center hole(it's next destination). Therefore, I feel it's safe to assume that the air makes a "direct path" from the airspace above the foil down into the center whole of the phunnel and eventually into the hose and your mouth.

Hope this expounds on those points....also, don't apologize for asking these questions. Discussions like this don't happen too often nowadays. They're a very welcome change.
[/quote]

Thanks for the props, Arcane.

I too miss the days where well experienced, well learned members used to pose questions and discuss things beyond the apparent.

Oh... lol... I knew I'd never live that Ed Hardy thing down.