Lounge Coalmageddon

[ih303]

[b]I'd like to know which Coco Nat YOU think would be best suited for lounge use.

[/b]If you've tried all the above contendors, you'll know that not all coals are created equal. Factors to consider is price, burn time, and heat output among other things. And don't just vote, folks. [b]EXPLAIN YOURSELF!
[/b]
Believe it or not, I actually make decisions at my lounge based on some of the feedback I get here. So the more feedback I get, the better.





**If you haven't tried all those coals, it's not too late. Read [url="http://www.hookahforum.com/topic/37926-coconut-coalmageddon/"]Stuie's Coalmageddon Thread[/url] and school yourself.

[boludo]

I voted for Cocos just because I think they are superior to the other coconut coals. However, for a lounge, I think is best to use lemon wood coals. They are a million times cheaper and burn just as good if not better. All you need is a knife an a hammer to break some of the really big chunks...

[Venger]

Sorry My lounge uses 3 kings 33mm as do i at home.
Ray

[mitchard]

Coconaras, because they are the best coco coal on the market.

CH nats are right behind them, but the heat output for the CCNs is perfect for Tangiers with very little heat management required (Nak and AF taker a little bit, but less than other coals).

[Skoozle]

Why not offer all three; or even more options. Make it part of the menu like your shisha and drinks. The customer would have the choice to mix and match as they see fit. Or pair the coals up with different shishas. Maybe the more expensive coals would be matched up with the more profitable shishas.

[ih303]

[quote name='boludo' date='24 May 2010 - 11:17 AM' timestamp='1274721471' post='469289']
I voted for Cocos just because I think they are superior to the other coconut coals. However, for a lounge, I think is best to use lemon wood coals. They are a million times cheaper and burn just as good if not better. All you need is a knife an a hammer to break some of the really big chunks...
[/quote]

In my experience, Lemon Wood Coals don't last anywhere as long as the coconut coals. Plus, in a lounge, it's nice to have uniform sized coals so you can predict wen to swap/flip the coals. Easier = Better


[quote name='Venger' date='24 May 2010 - 12:26 PM' timestamp='1274725608' post='469296']
Sorry My lounge uses 3 kings 33mm as do i at home.
Ray
[/quote]

I'm not a fan of QL's. IMO, they taint the flavor of the smoke and also smoke a lot when lighting. (Although, the CH's that we're using now tend to smoke a lot too)

[quote name='Skoozle' date='24 May 2010 - 12:50 PM' timestamp='1274727006' post='469298']
Why not offer all three; or even more options. Make it part of the menu like your shisha and drinks. The customer would have the choice to mix and match as they see fit. Or pair the coals up with different shishas. Maybe the more expensive coals would be matched up with the more profitable shishas.
[/quote]

The majority of people that come into my lounge know little if anything about hookah. They'd have no idea how to order. Also, it would be a ginormous pain in the ass to have to remember who got what and who get's what kind of coal.


Great feedback, gang! Keep it coming.

[Tyler]

Ch nats work the best for honey based/ethanol flavor brands such as starbuzz, social smoke, and fantasia because they don't burn as hot and those are low heat brands. cocos work better for nak and tang because they require more heat to work optimally.

[Caila]

[quote name='Venger' date='24 May 2010 - 01:26 PM' timestamp='1274725608' post='469296']
Sorry My lounge uses 3 kings 33mm as do i at home.
Ray
[/quote]

Yay 3 Kings!!

[mitchard]

[quote name='Tyler' date='24 May 2010 - 12:14 PM' timestamp='1274728446' post='469303']
Ch nats work the best for honey based/ethanol flavor brands such as starbuzz, social smoke, and fantasia because they don't burn as hot and those are low heat brands. cocos work better for nak and tang because they require more heat to work optimally.
[/quote]

Bingo.

[Arcane]

Naturally, I vote for the AF coco’s. If you’re talking about lounge use, I think these would give you the best results for cost/quality. In turn, that leads to either more profit to you or more savings to your customer.

If you choose to switch to coconaras, yet raised prices on bowls $1…I’d have a bit of a gripe. Even though, I’m getting a better coal, it wouldn’t be worth a dollar more imo. Not even a quarter.

For lounge use, I think AF cocos fit perfectly….personal use, Coconaras.

[Chaz1337]

If you pride yourself on offering top quality hookah products to your customers then the answer is obvious... Coconara hands down. Also much less of a pain to keep fresh coals on since they burn for hotter AND longer. I would gladly pay more for a better quality smoke. The same principle applies when looking for hookahs for lounge use in my opinion. If you want the best quality ie. KM or Mya for their reliability and relative ease of use. As such CCN's are the clear winner in my opinion for their length of burn time and the lack of a coal taste they impart.

[pyromaniac112692]

I am a relatively new hookah smoker and I smoke starbuzz and coconaras and in my opinion coconaras are worth the extra money because even a noob like me gets awesome heat management out of them. I also think from a buisness prospective that people who hav the more enjoyable CCN smoke are more likely to come back.

[ih303]

[quote name='Arcane' date='24 May 2010 - 02:25 PM' timestamp='1274732701' post='469318']
For lounge use, I think AF cocos fit perfectly….personal use, Coconaras.
[/quote]

I actually always really liked the AF coals. In fact, when we did our own little "coalmageddon" study at the lounge months back, we found them to perform better than CH's, lasting longer and putting off less fumes/ash. But it's been a while since I've tried them, and now I have doubts after reading Stuie's thread. It may not matter to some folks, but I also really like how you can buy AF Coals in loose bulk instead of just a case of smaller boxes - less waste and hassle.

This whole thing frustrates me. We've been promoting John and his coals at our lounge since we took it over. I want those coals to be the best. But when we open three boxes in a row that burn black-red, emit blue flames, smoke like a chimney, and make the bowls taste like rotten eggs, it makes me start to question. I don't blame John since all he's not really involved in the production. It's a consistency and quality control issue.

At the end of the day, I cannot afford to serve bad hookahs at my lounge. Even more, the bad boxes I'm coming across seem to exhibit characteristics of high sulfur content. Burning sulfer creates sulfur dioxide, which can make people sick. And sick customers are not good for business.

Oh, what to do, what to do.

[Stuie]

I would go with CH in a lounge enviroment. You can light them in the back so no one smells them. Plus they are cheaper.

[Arcane]

what if you try and deal with AF directly? maybe you can get 720ct boxes at an even BIGGER discount if you buy a lot of them....

[ih303]

[quote name='Stuie' date='25 May 2010 - 02:44 PM' timestamp='1274820246' post='469469']
I would go with CH in a lounge enviroment. You can light them in the back so no one smells them. Plus they are cheaper.
[/quote]

That's what we have now. But I'm concerned about how clean they burn. Last night, I had a burner full of them and they all had blue flames around them. The thing is, that was a GOOD box.

So I decided to light up a few Coco Nara's for comparison. After they had burned out, I replaced them with more CH's and could totally taste the difference. Again, I don't know if it's a batch issue or what, but it's really starting to bother me.

[Venger]

It really sounds like you got a box of ch QL by mistake. I have some of those and they are a bitch to light, smoke like mad and have blue flames shooting out of them. I use a torch cigar lighter but I could see the same thing happening by putting them on a burner.they do have some taste almost like a campfire smokiness. when this box is gone I am going back to 3 kings (which I still use when I don't feel like going through the smell and hassle.)
Ray

[ih303]

[quote name='Venger' date='26 May 2010 - 11:22 AM' timestamp='1274894559' post='469534']It really sounds like you got a box of ch QL by mistake.[/quote]

They're not QL's. They still start like regular coals but have a blue flame. We actually carry John's QL's (best on the market, IMO), and these are not burning at all like them.

Has anyone else experienced any of these things with John's coals or am I the only one?

[boludo]

[quote name='ih303' date='24 May 2010 - 03:04 PM' timestamp='1274727867' post='469301']
[quote name='boludo' date='24 May 2010 - 11:17 AM' timestamp='1274721471' post='469289']
I voted for Cocos just because I think they are superior to the other coconut coals. However, for a lounge, I think is best to use lemon wood coals. They are a million times cheaper and burn just as good if not better. All you need is a knife an a hammer to break some of the really big chunks...
[/quote]

In my experience, Lemon Wood Coals don't last anywhere as long as the coconut coals. Plus, in a lounge, it's nice to have uniform sized coals so you can predict wen to swap/flip the coals. Easier = Better
[/quote]

I understand, but they are a lot cheaper; and they don't burn as hot, so you can get away with using a bunch of small/medium pieces with a windcover (so they don't fall) without burning the tobacco. Plus, if you have a lot of inexperience smokers, I think lemon wood charcoal can be more forgiven with heat management....

[MechEng]

[quote name='ih303' date='25 May 2010 - 09:05 AM' timestamp='1274803504' post='469437']
[quote name='Arcane' date='24 May 2010 - 02:25 PM' timestamp='1274732701' post='469318']
For lounge use, I think AF cocos fit perfectly….personal use, Coconaras.
[/quote]

I actually always really liked the AF coals. In fact, when we did our own little "coalmageddon" study at the lounge months back, we found them to perform better than CH's, lasting longer and putting off less fumes/ash. But it's been a while since I've tried them, and now I have doubts after reading Stuie's thread. It may not matter to some folks, but I also really like how you can buy AF Coals in loose bulk instead of just a case of smaller boxes - less waste and hassle.

This whole thing frustrates me. We've been promoting John and his coals at our lounge since we took it over. I want those coals to be the best. But when we open three boxes in a row that burn black-red, emit blue flames, smoke like a chimney, and make the bowls taste like rotten eggs, it makes me start to question. I don't blame John since all he's not really involved in the production. It's a consistency and quality control issue.

At the end of the day, I cannot afford to serve bad hookahs at my lounge. Even more, the bad boxes I'm coming across seem to exhibit characteristics of high sulfur content. Burning sulfer creates sulfur dioxide, which can make people sick. And sick customers are not good for business.

Oh, what to do, what to do.
[/quote]

^This. The box I got before I left town sucked - a lot. I just wrote it off as you guys not having the new new since you get cases. I know that Travis and I compared the ones he got from the lounge and the ones that I had just got from John (this was a couple weeks before school was out) when he reworked them and the the ones I had were far more dense and they burned damn near 100 degrees Celsius hotter - both characteristics that lead to less ash which I enjoy. Also, beings mine were more dense we found mine lasting 10+ minutes longer on top of a bowl.

For personal use I love CCN's and I would love to see them in the lounge with a Derek retail discount? I like the CCN's because they ash less, last longer, et cetera.

Now what I would consider is the cost vs. performance and which ever one wins that battle should take the title of 'Coalmageddon'

How is everything going?

[indian_villager]

No coals, I just use straight burning coconuts that are freshly delivered by swallows!

[ih303]

[quote name='MechEng' date='27 May 2010 - 03:21 PM' timestamp='1274995271' post='469677']The box I got before I left town sucked - a lot. I just wrote it off as you guys not having the new new since you get cases. I know that Travis and I compared the ones he got from the lounge and the ones that I had just got from John (this was a couple weeks before school was out) when he reworked them and the the ones I had were far more dense and they burned damn near 100 degrees Celsius hotter - both characteristics that lead to less ash which I enjoy. Also, beings mine were more dense we found mine lasting 10+ minutes longer on top of a bowl.

For personal use I love CCN's and I would love to see them in the lounge with a Derek retail discount? I like the CCN's because they ash less, last longer, et cetera.

Now what I would consider is the cost vs. performance and which ever one wins that battle should take the title of 'Coalmageddon'

How is everything going?
[/quote]

Things are going well. This coal thing is stressing me out. We got in a case of CCN's the other day to try out. Major fail. The new form factor (think sugar cubes) is no-go for lounge use. We had coals rolling off bowls all night long. Plus, since they're smaller, they don't really burn much longer which makes it harder to justify spending twice as much on coals. I think we'll continue getting them but only for retail.

I knew we were getting John's "old formula" and would continue to do so until he had sold them all out. This was never much of a problem until this last batch. I'd say the last forty boxes or so have been off somehow. I'm gonna see if I can start getting his new stuff. I hear they're much better.

The only other thing I'm still working on is a hose solution for our QT's. Maybe I'll start a thread called "hoseageddon" or something. There's got to be a good, short-handled, washable hose out there better than the Healthy Hose.

[Universal Magnetic]

seems like CH coals might not be a good fit for you. my vote goes to CCN since they last longer and ash better. they also barely smell when lighting which is a big thing for me. only problem is the price although im sure if buy in bulk directly youll get a good discount. Edited June 1, 2010 by wesclrg

[ih303]

[b]Update:
[/b]
I've got John sending me several cases of his new recipe Nats. I'm eager to see how they fare against their predecessors. I've also got some of the new, old-style Coco Nara's coming my way for comparison. It looks like I'll be blowing out my current inventory of CCN's retail since they just don't work for lounge use.

I know I've asked this question before, but are certain coals more popular than others in lounges you've been to?

[MechEng]

Ian the new CH Nats are much, much better. I guess I've never had a problem with the cubed cocos but I know I don't load a bowl the same way you guys do at the lounge. I'm more of a tight pack and I'm pretty sure you do the fluffy over the rim and let the foil push it down (giving the foil a bit of a crown) and I have had them roll off of a bowl I packed that way. I might be in town this weekend so maybe I can get some coco's from you guys and smoke a hookah at the lounge.