matias Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 [quote name='mushrat' date='05 June 2010 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1275761521' post='470748'] You can always edit your posts for 3 or 5 minutes I believe. [/quote] I never could until now. I think it has to do with the fact I got to 50 posts [quote name='mushrat'] Now what gets me is that people seem to think the Israelis are stupid. They really aren't. Do you think even THEY think they can get away with oping fire on ship in international waters without warning? Really? [/quote] It is not a question of stupidity. The Israeli governments(s) are used to getting away with a lot of things, one of the latest example being the assassination of a Hamas commander in Dubai in February, passing their agents as foreign citizens ([url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/18/british-government-dubai-mossad"]http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/18/british-government-dubai-mossad[/url]). During its history Israel has realized countless covert operations and assassinations on foreign soil and usually gotten away with it. Not that it is a monopoly of Israel, many other countries did and still do it. But yes, they are used to and do get away with killing people [url="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3797726.ece"]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3797726.ece[/url] Remember Rachel Corrie, Tom Hurndall, James Miller? The article published by Haaretz showing the T-shirts worn by Tsahal snipers and sanctioned by their commander, showing a pregnant woman with the slogan: 1 shot, two kills, another one with a little boy in crosshairs, with the slogan: the smaller the target, the harder to get. PLease believe me when I state that I am a Sionist and a friend of Israel. Not of the Israeli government actions though. [quote name='mushrat'] All the video from both sides confirms that. [/quote] There are no videos from the activists' side. All the footage seen until now has been released by Israeli sources. Pro-flotilla people have used them to illustrate some of their points because it is the only material available. All graphic material from the flotilla has been confiscated. Not even one photograph has been released by anyone else but the IDF and other Israeli govt sources. Several journalists embedded with the flotilla claim that their footage show how the Israeli were shooting before boarding. I do not know if it is true but please stop acting as if there was full, uncontroversial graphical testimonies of what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matias Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 [img]http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Mar/Week3/15245916.jpg[/img] [img]http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Mar/Week3/15245918.jpg[/img] [img]http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Mar/Week3/15245919.jpg[/img] [img]http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Mar/Week3/15245921.jpg[/img] Haaretz archives are not available any more, but here is a contemporary article by sky news: [url="http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Israeli-Army-T-Shirts-Mock-Killing-Palestinian-Women-And-Children-During-Gaza-Offensive/Article/200903315245946"]http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Israeli-Army-T-Shirts-Mock-Killing-Palestinian-Women-And-Children-During-Gaza-Offensive/Article/200903315245946[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shah1 Posted June 6, 2010 Author Share Posted June 6, 2010 erm what is a troll post :S lol no i just wanted to see what other ppl think and what they are being told, and well u guys in the states get some shit news coverage, like i thought bbc was biased some times but FOX o crapola i have neva seen so much crap in my life lool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 [quote name='shah1' date='05 June 2010 - 08:26 PM' timestamp='1275787605' post='470790'] erm what is a troll post :S lol no i just wanted to see what other ppl think and what they are being told, and well u guys in the states get some shit news coverage, like i thought bbc was biased some times but [b]FOX o crapola i have neva seen so much crap in my life lool[/b] [/quote] Got that right... People who watch Fox aren't watching news, they're watching a fictitious drama. Glad you're not a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustafabey Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 [quote name='shah1' date='05 June 2010 - 09:26 PM' timestamp='1275787605' post='470790'] u guys in the states get some shit news coverage, like i thought bbc was biased some times but FOX o crapola i have neva seen so much crap in my life lool [/quote] Boy you are right about that! American news is horrible, even CNN they cover pretty much what draws business. 1/3 of CNN.com is celebrity bullshit and gossip. Real news you have to search for. I check out BBC and Al Jazeera, too Even then I'm only getting part of the story. Mostly its all spin anyway, truth being something deeply hidden it seems by all sides. Photo ops, sound bites and what sells soap, which is why in American news you can always find a story involving Sarah Palin, since so many people love her and so many despise her. She's become a celebrity. As for Israel and Palestine, well you have two very tenacious groups of people, neither one ever wants to give an inch. I will go on for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 [quote name='mustafabey' date='05 June 2010 - 08:55 PM' timestamp='1275789313' post='470795'] [quote name='shah1' date='05 June 2010 - 09:26 PM' timestamp='1275787605' post='470790'] u guys in the states get some shit news coverage, like i thought bbc was biased some times but FOX o crapola i have neva seen so much crap in my life lool [/quote] Boy you are right about that! American news is horrible, even CNN they cover pretty much what draws business. 1/3 of CNN.com is celebrity bullshit and gossip. Real news you have to search for. I check out BBC and Al Jazeera, too Even then I'm only getting part of the story. Mostly its all spin anyway, truth being something deeply hidden it seems by all sides. Photo ops, sound bites and what sells soap, which is why in American news you can always find a story involving Sarah Palin, since so many people love her and so many despise her. She's become a celebrity. As for Israel and Palestine, well you have two very tenacious groups of people, neither one ever wants to give an inch. I will go on for a long time. [/quote] Yeah, CNN, MSNBC, and others aren't that great either... You're definitely right- you have to search to get real news these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shah1 Posted June 6, 2010 Author Share Posted June 6, 2010 see one thing my dad has taught me is never rely on one source of information, because every television channel has its allegiances with sum1 (don’t trust anything owned by rupert murdoch:P) so nearly every news broad cast will be biased in one direction or the other, that’s why u have to watch around , i check out the news on 10 different channels and they all differ on how much coverage they give to certain news stories. But that seems like the only way to hear the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushrat Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 [quote name='matias' date='05 June 2010 - 06:28 PM' timestamp='1275776916' post='470771'] [quote name='mushrat' date='05 June 2010 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1275761521' post='470748'] You can always edit your posts for 3 or 5 minutes I believe. [/quote] I never could until now. I think it has to do with the fact I got to 50 posts [quote name='mushrat'] Now what gets me is that people seem to think the Israelis are stupid. They really aren't. Do you think even THEY think they can get away with oping fire on ship in international waters without warning? Really? [/quote] It is not a question of stupidity. The Israeli governments(s) are used to getting away with a lot of things, one of the latest example being the assassination of a Hamas commander in Dubai in February, passing their agents as foreign citizens ([url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/18/british-government-dubai-mossad"]http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/18/british-government-dubai-mossad[/url]). During its history Israel has realized countless covert operations and assassinations on foreign soil and usually gotten away with it. Not that it is a monopoly of Israel, many other countries did and still do it. But yes, they are used to and do get away with killing people [url="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3797726.ece"]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3797726.ece[/url] Remember Rachel Corrie, Tom Hurndall, James Miller? The article published by Haaretz showing the T-shirts worn by Tsahal snipers and sanctioned by their commander, showing a pregnant woman with the slogan: 1 shot, two kills, another one with a little boy in crosshairs, with the slogan: the smaller the target, the harder to get. PLease believe me when I state that I am a Sionist and a friend of Israel. Not of the Israeli government actions though. [quote name='mushrat'] All the video from both sides confirms that. [/quote] There are no videos from the activists' side. All the footage seen until now has been released by Israeli sources. Pro-flotilla people have used them to illustrate some of their points because it is the only material available. All graphic material from the flotilla has been confiscated. Not even one photograph has been released by anyone else but the IDF and other Israeli govt sources. Several journalists embedded with the flotilla claim that their footage show how the Israeli were shooting before boarding. I do not know if it is true but please stop acting as if there was full, uncontroversial graphical testimonies of what happened. [/quote] The Jerusalem post article i pointed to is footage confiscated from the boat. The one where they are practicing with knives, rods, and axes before the troops even arrive. The other examples are arrogance, not stupidity. And in the case of the assassination it was against a specific target and you will notice no one complained about the guy being dead, just how they went about it. He was NOT an innocent activist. As for some of the other activists killed including Corrie, DON'T stand in front of a bulldozer and DON'T go into a combat/war zone if you arent prepared to get hurt or killed. If these people are going to put themselves in danger then no one should be upset when they find that danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haz Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 [/quote] As for some of the other activists killed including Corrie, DON'T stand in front of a bulldozer and DON'T go into a combat/war zone if you arent prepared to get hurt or killed. If these people are going to put themselves in danger then no one should be upset when they find that danger. [/quote] Don't be born in Gaza if you want human rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushrat Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 dont be born in the us if you want basic rights either I got sad news for you. As for gaza, elect a moderate government, make peace with the rest of the territories, then come talk to us. And the woman killed by the dozer was NOT Palestinian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haz Posted June 6, 2010 Share Posted June 6, 2010 I understand that nations have to deal with militant groups. Examples are England and the IRA and the Sri Lankan government against the Tamil tigers. But the suffering Israel inflict on the children is horrendous and inexcusable. Something interesting to read: [url="http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3899915,00.html"]http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3899915,00.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustafabey Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 From a CNN headline [b]Iran Red Crescent to send aid to Gaza[/b] This should be interesting, as they intend to use ships and attempt to break the blockade. Personally I think Netanyahu's hawkish behavior and his movement away from peace talks and US efforts to end settlement in the West Bank, is simply a strategy, probably in concert with the US, to appear independent. This way,adopting the status of a "rogue",he is going to be able to send airstikes into Iran to knockout their nuclear program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushrat Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 wont be the first time the Israelis have been sent in to knock out an Iranian Nuke plant if I recall. Isn't the US working on a super bunker buster to take out the DEEPLY buried Iranian facilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. B Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Egypt declared the border to be open indefinitely today. No comment so far by Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushrat Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 cool. lets see what comes across. The first time weapons are found all bets are off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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