This Really Gets Me Going

[Dereksd]

I seem to be seeing alot of movies featuring hookahs being used for nh usage and it really upsets me. its something that really tarnishes the tradition that we as hookah smokers have grown to love. it also seems to run rampant with alot of people i know who muddy their hookahs with this misuse and even after discussion with them they dont realize the stigma they are putting on us as normal hookah smokers. as someone who has had cops called out to their house due to smoking outdoors (everytime its happened the cops have been mad that they are called out and having their time wasted by flag blowing neighbors and seem to be very knowledgeable about hookah smoking) it really bugs me that i cant go to a park or the beach (since i live in san diego) without getting weird looks.

overall it just really pisses me off that movies seem to more often use hookahs in an unflattering and demeaning manner

[ezxen]

WE need to make a hookah documentary

[Dereksd]

dude seriously im a huge docu buff and im really shocked there hasnt been a hookah docu about the history and modern culture. i think a big reason being that people would talk about oh its smoking its bad for you and there isnt much conclusive medical studies for hookah that could be used to show in the film. Edited July 1, 2010 by Dereksd

[agunn1231]

[quote name='Dereksd' date='01 July 2010 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1278023445' post='473658']
dude seriously im a huge docu buff and im really shocked there hasnt been a hookah docu about the history and modern culture. i think a big reason being that people would talk about oh its smoking its bad for you and there isnt much conclusive medical studies for hookah that could be used to show in the film.
[/quote]


i too am a docu buff. I would say that making a docu about hookah culture past and present is a good idea, though there are few conclusive studies, if that is made clear, and the documentary focuses on other aspects of hookah, then it may make for a spectacular movie.

[Dereksd]

ahhh i didnt know there was any good studies out lately. its been awhile since ive looked into it and i just remember all the ones that were being put out by the anti smoking agencies and people making wild statements. yea id love to see a really good docu on hookah i think it would be amazing if done correctly and not some moron doing it

[Chreees]

Oh dear God I do not wish for a documentary to be made about hookah. Why? It doesn't need anymore of the government's attention. Draw more attention to it, and they'll for sure ban it. Problem is there isn't really any conclusive evidence as to how harmful it is. Some studies say one thing, while others say the complete opposite. What happened to America, the land of the free?

[Chreees]

What I REALLY don't understand is how more and more people are coming around to the idea of NHT getting legalized, yet we're seeing tobacco getting so many restrictions put on it. I think NHT SHOULD be legalized, because it can be taxed. Hell, I bet if they did they could tax the hell out of it and our current economical problems would possibly be solved. This is the USA. Aren't people allowed to smoke what they want? It's their bodies, their supposedly free bodies. I just don't understand why they're crushing down on tobacco yet coming around to the idea of making NHT legal. It just doesn't make sense. Add in there the whole universal healthcare dilemma in regards to people smoking (People who smoke generally have more health problems) and you REALLY got yourself a doozy...

[ezxen]

[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' date='01 July 2010 - 04:12 PM' timestamp='1278025932' post='473667']
What I REALLY don't understand is how more and more people are coming around to the idea of NHT getting legalized, yet we're seeing tobacco getting so many restrictions put on it. I think NHT SHOULD be legalized, because it can be taxed. Hell, I bet if they did they could tax the hell out of it and our current economical problems would possibly be solved. This is the USA. Aren't people allowed to smoke what they want? It's their bodies, their supposedly free bodies. I just don't understand why they're crushing down on tobacco yet coming around to the idea of making NHT legal. It just doesn't make sense. Add in there the whole universal healthcare dilemma in regards to people smoking (People who smoke generally have more health problems) and you REALLY got yourself a doozy...
[/quote]
I quote you to agree with you fully . Taxing the hell of it would probably fixe our economy and it would increase jobs and allot of people would nto go to jail and mooch on the government for BS NHT possession

[thatonethere]

Cosign Incubusratm, however in general I think America is being so totalitarian about what people are doing in their leisure time is because they are looking for more ways to take money from us and divert it into whatever program they see fit.
Americans are starting to see that legalization should have been done a long time ago, and I think that's why they are cracking down on tobacco. They are loosing the battle of regulation in general. People are brewing their own beer, and pretty soon, people are going to start making their own shisha or smokables out of cheap redily available goods.

Long story short, the government is loosing money from things they thought would be around to regulate, tax and ration out. We are starting to take from the elitists, and they don't like it.

With hookah, they don't know much about it, and that scares them because not much has been done in the way of taxing and regulating it. They are becoming aware of how much hookah enthusiasts like ourselves spend on the hobby, and they want their cut. Edited July 2, 2010 by thatonethere

[Chreees]

[quote name='ezxen' date='01 July 2010 - 07:14 PM' timestamp='1278029673' post='473684']
I quote you to agree with you fully . Taxing the hell of it would probably fixe our economy and it would increase jobs and allot of people would nto go to jail and mooch on the government for BS NHT possession
[/quote]

Yeah, I actually meant to mention that it would save a lot of NHT possession-charged people from going to jail and save the taxpayers some money. I mean, are they being criminal? Yeah, I guess, since they're purchasing something that is illegal. BUT, does it harm anyone else other than the person who is smoking it? No. The gov is starting to boss the common man around too much, I think.


[quote name='thatonethere' date='01 July 2010 - 07:20 PM' timestamp='1278030051' post='473688']
Cosign Incubusratm, however in general I think America is being so totalitarian about what people are doing in their leisure time is because they are looking for more ways to take money from us and divert it into whatever program they see fit.
Americans are starting to see that legalization should have been done a long time ago, and I think that's why they are cracking down on tobacco. They are loosing the battle of regulation in general. People are brewing their own beer, and pretty soon, people are going to start making their own shisha or smokables out of cheap redily available goods.

Long story short, the government is loosing money from things they thought would be around to regulate, tax and ration out. We are starting to take from the elitists, and they don't like it.

With hookah, they don't know much about it, and that scares them because not much has been done in the way of taxing and regulating it. They are becoming aware of how much hookah enthusiasts like ourselves spend on the hobby, and they want their cut.
[/quote]

I totally agree with every word of what you said. We are turning into a totalitarian government. It's not the Democrats' fault. It's not the Republicans' fault. It's ALL of their fault. It's the system. It doesn't work. They spend more time bickering about ideas and can never come to agree on much of anything. Another thing I don't understand is WHY THE HELL ARE WE SPENDING MONEY ON A WAR WE ARE LOSING IN THE MIDDLE EAST WHILE OUR COUNTRY'S ECONOMY IS FAILING? It does not make sense!! Oh God the stupidity of these people... I don't care if there's oil there or not. Fuck oil. We should instead be more focused on getting other ways of energy to be the new standard.

Ok, sorry for getting WAY off-topic... I've been lonely all week and have had a lot on my mind. I wanna go bitch-slap all the politicians in Washington and tell 'em how I feel.

[mustafabey]

The booze lobby and the Bronfman family (Seagram's) won't allow NHT to be legalized. Revenue needs, though may tip the balance. I've always thought that America likes alcohol as a drug because it is a violent one and America seems always to have need of warriors. A nation mellowed out on NHT isn't going to fight for any cause. Edited July 2, 2010 by mustafabey

[Dereksd]

its gonna be hard to legalize nht because theres no scale of how under the influence you are and we dont need people being mowed down by some high moron. I am for it being legalized for the same reasons everyone else has brought up but it would need to be heavily regulated.


anyways back on topic nht being used in hookahs pisses me off haha

[Hassouni]

Ok here's my input on what has been already discussed.

Firstly, as Mush pointed out once, what do you think they used in hookahs before the introduction of tobacco from the new world in the 16th century? Sure modern hookah design is only a couple years old but the concept of water pipes, thusly the ancestors of the dear nargiles we know and love, is much older. As I say in my sig, and is noted elsewhere on the net, nargile even ultimately means coconut...people were smoking other things out of coconut-shell based devices.

Secondly, as for why are they going after tobacco while easing off NHT (not that they're being that quick about it): MOST tobacco that's consumed is in cigarette form - please correct me if I'm wrong, but my anecdotal evidence tells me Im probably right. Cigs, as we know are HIGHLY addictive, and are proven to give all kinds of woeful ailments. Whoever said not much is known about hookahs is right. The very fact that we aren't BURNING tobacco makes a huge difference, but who in Congress knows that? NHT on the other hand, has never really been linked to direct deaths...and nobody is smoking two packs a day of that, for various reasons.

Finally, as for the last comment, that itll be hard to legalize because we don't want people being mowed down by a high moron....do we want people being mowed down by a drunk moron? If and when (and I have my doubts) we ever see this, I'm sure rules will be applied that are AT LEAST as stringent as those for alcohol

[Dereksd]

well of course we dont want people being involved in drunk driving accidents but like i said before we have a method of knowing if someone is over the legal limit of alcohol and we dont for illegal substances thats why i brought up what i did. i realize that people still drink and drive but all we need is some person out there needing 4th meal and getting pulled over by a cop and getting off because "oh hes high theres nothing we can do"

[agunn1231]

[quote name='Dereksd' date='01 July 2010 - 11:18 PM' timestamp='1278047892' post='473731']
well of course we dont want people being involved in drunk driving accidents but like i said before we have a method of knowing if someone is over the legal limit of alcohol and we dont for illegal substances thats why i brought up what i did. i realize that people still drink and drive but all we need is some person out there needing 4th meal and getting pulled over by a cop and getting off because "oh hes high theres nothing we can do"
[/quote]


However, they could still hit you with a DWI....and if they have anything on them they're screwed.

[Dereksd]

yea thats what im trying to show. with no method of telling levels of intoxication you would pretty much have to not be allowed to drive and then we would have a crazy increase in dwi/dui and even more people in jail which cancels out the idea of legalizing it would keep people on "small" drug charges out of jail and would end up costing tax payers more

[KeepItSimple]

O.K. I read the past posts and there's a bunch I want to talk about and I'm gonna jump around a bit, bare with me .

What the rest of the country needs to do on the topic of sending people to jail for NHT offenses is take a lesson from California. We don't send you to jail, we just take all of your money, and if you fuck up like 6 times, we slap you with a drug related felony, and then you still dont go to jail. You get put on probation and have to take classes and pay more money to the state. What happens if you fuck that up? Well your given another chance, and then the fines and penalties monetary wise are even greater. It takes a lot to go to jail for recreational use of NHT here in Cali. And the state is making bank off of it and keeping people who shouldn't be in jail, out of jail.

And someone already hit the point for why Tobacco is being targeted with the taxes and such, its because "the big evil cigarette companies", thats in quotations because I don't have an opinion of what they do, but thats the view that the majority of america has about Phillip Morris and RJ Reynolds (Marlboro and Camel). Because don't u know? These companies are ruining America by selling a substance that kills people! /EndSarcasm

But don't forget the fact that people choose willingly to put this in their bodies, meaning that it doesn't matter what it does to you or how addictive it is. Bleach is a liquid, you can drink liquids, so I could drink bleach if I wanted. Does that mean Clorox should get shut down?
[size=3]
[/size]
[size=3]So anyway, before I rant on that my point is, anything with the dreaded word nicotine in it gets a bad rap now. The public has forgotten that although nicotine is crazy addictive, its not the nicotine that's killing people. It's all the additives that the cig companies put in the cigs to get that nicotine to your brain at breakneck speeds that are doing the harm. Everyone has forgotten that there is more than one way to use tobacco, besides for adding a shit load of chemicals and burning it to inhale it.[/size]

But anyway, yes it sucks that people are using Hookah's for NHT, and it sucks that the taxes on tobacco are getting crazy, and yes its unfair that NHT is getting more lenient while we suffer, but thats just the way it goes. All I know is that today it's still all good for me as a hookah smoker, and thats more than I could ask for and I'm grateful for what I have now, and worrying about the rest, even though I just went on a rant there, only makes the thing your dreading/pissed off about come quicker.

[thatonethere]

[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' date='01 July 2010 - 05:59 PM' timestamp='1278032380' post='473697']
[quote name='ezxen' date='01 July 2010 - 07:14 PM' timestamp='1278029673' post='473684']
I quote you to agree with you fully . Taxing the hell of it would probably fixe our economy and it would increase jobs and allot of people would nto go to jail and mooch on the government for BS NHT possession
[/quote]

Yeah, I actually meant to mention that it would save a lot of NHT possession-charged people from going to jail and save the taxpayers some money. I mean, are they being criminal? Yeah, I guess, since they're purchasing something that is illegal. BUT, does it harm anyone else other than the person who is smoking it? No. The gov is starting to boss the common man around too much, I think.


[quote name='thatonethere' date='01 July 2010 - 07:20 PM' timestamp='1278030051' post='473688']
Cosign Incubusratm, however in general I think America is being so totalitarian about what people are doing in their leisure time is because they are looking for more ways to take money from us and divert it into whatever program they see fit.
Americans are starting to see that legalization should have been done a long time ago, and I think that's why they are cracking down on tobacco. They are loosing the battle of regulation in general. People are brewing their own beer, and pretty soon, people are going to start making their own shisha or smokables out of cheap redily available goods.

Long story short, the government is loosing money from things they thought would be around to regulate, tax and ration out. We are starting to take from the elitists, and they don't like it.

With hookah, they don't know much about it, and that scares them because not much has been done in the way of taxing and regulating it. They are becoming aware of how much hookah enthusiasts like ourselves spend on the hobby, and they want their cut.
[/quote]

I totally agree with every word of what you said. We are turning into a totalitarian government. It's not the Democrats' fault. It's not the Republicans' fault. It's ALL of their fault. It's the system. It doesn't work. They spend more time bickering about ideas and can never come to agree on much of anything. Another thing I don't understand is[b] WHY THE HELL ARE WE SPENDING MONEY ON A WAR WE ARE LOSING IN THE MIDDLE EAST WHILE OUR COUNTRY'S ECONOMY IS FAILING? It does not make sense!![/b] Oh God the stupidity of these people... I don't care if there's oil there or not. Fuck oil. We should instead be more focused on getting other ways of energy to be the new standard.

Ok, sorry for getting WAY off-topic... I've been lonely all week and have had a lot on my mind. I wanna go bitch-slap all the politicians in Washington and tell 'em how I feel.
[/quote]

Cuz this is 'Merica! If you don't like it then [img]http://www.hookahforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/getout.gif[/img] .

I'm kidding, but that's the common attitude amongst them. It's a lazy and unoriginal cop out.

[mustafabey]

Thatonethere said: Cuz this is 'Merica! If you don't like it then [img]../../public/style_emoticons/default/getout.gif[/img]

Back in the late sixties it was "America love it or leave it" This was the slogan of Nixon's "silent majority" who supported the Vietnam war, were disillusioned with equality for African Americans and thought hippies were filthy people wallowing in sex and drugs. Hippies became quickly a non factor when the powers that be decided to ignore them. Jerry Falwell added his version of Jesus to the equation and these people became the "moral majority" and now have morphed into the "tea party"

[ryno]

many good points in this topic. I think so far I agree with everything that has been said so I won't type everything out. Maybe later when I'm not at work.

But, this is a free country (at least, its supposed to be) so as much as I hate people that use nht in their hookahs, it is their choice just like its our choice to use tobacco. I do hate it though when I tell people I smoke hookah and they say they love it, then find out I smoke tobacco, then always say thats nasty and a waste of a hookah. I usually tell them whatever and they can go fuck themselves

[mushrat]

[quote name='Hassouni' date='02 July 2010 - 12:30 AM' timestamp='1278045056' post='473717']
Ok here's my input on what has been already discussed.

Firstly, as Mush pointed out once, what do you think they used in hookahs before the introduction of tobacco from the new world in the 16th century? Sure modern hookah design is only a couple years old but the concept of water pipes, thusly the ancestors of the dear nargiles we know and love, is much older. As I say in my sig, and is noted elsewhere on the net, nargile even ultimately means coconut...people were smoking other things out of coconut-shell based devices.

Secondly, as for why are they going after tobacco while easing off NHT (not that they're being that quick about it): MOST tobacco that's consumed is in cigarette form - please correct me if I'm wrong, but my anecdotal evidence tells me Im probably right. Cigs, as we know are HIGHLY addictive, and are proven to give all kinds of woeful ailments. Whoever said not much is known about hookahs is right. The very fact that we aren't BURNING tobacco makes a huge difference, but who in Congress knows that? NHT on the other hand, has never really been linked to direct deaths...and nobody is smoking two packs a day of that, for various reasons.

Finally, as for the last comment, that itll be hard to legalize because we don't want people being mowed down by a high moron....do we want people being mowed down by a drunk moron? If and when (and I have my doubts) we ever see this, I'm sure rules will be applied that are AT LEAST as stringent as those for alcohol
[/quote]


Firstly, you are correct in reminding people that what we do with our hookahs aint exactly really traditional.

secondly, The "if we tax it it will help the economy and the deficit" arguement is crap. Since when has the government ever stayed within its budget? If they start making more money from taxation of NHT then they will just spend that money PLUS more they don't have. They always do.

thirdly, i believe the main driving force against legalization isn't the moral majority or any p;oitical group per se, its the DRUG companies. Yes folks, the people who make most of their money off of Xanax, lexipro, klonopin, and a huge host of anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, and feel better drugs would be out a whole shit ton of money if instead of people taking their expensive pills to relax when they get home, they lit up some NHT and chilled to some Doors. It's not where you'd really think about the opposition coming from, but it make a WHOLE lotta sense doesn't it?

so anyways, tread softly on other people's rights to do things cause the states are already after OUR right to smoke. Lets encourage more freedoms and less restrictions shall we?

[Chreees]

[quote name='mushrat' date='02 July 2010 - 03:46 PM' timestamp='1278103576' post='473797']
[quote name='Hassouni' date='02 July 2010 - 12:30 AM' timestamp='1278045056' post='473717']
Ok here's my input on what has been already discussed.

Firstly, as Mush pointed out once, what do you think they used in hookahs before the introduction of tobacco from the new world in the 16th century? Sure modern hookah design is only a couple years old but the concept of water pipes, thusly the ancestors of the dear nargiles we know and love, is much older. As I say in my sig, and is noted elsewhere on the net, nargile even ultimately means coconut...people were smoking other things out of coconut-shell based devices.

Secondly, as for why are they going after tobacco while easing off NHT (not that they're being that quick about it): MOST tobacco that's consumed is in cigarette form - please correct me if I'm wrong, but my anecdotal evidence tells me Im probably right. Cigs, as we know are HIGHLY addictive, and are proven to give all kinds of woeful ailments. Whoever said not much is known about hookahs is right. The very fact that we aren't BURNING tobacco makes a huge difference, but who in Congress knows that? NHT on the other hand, has never really been linked to direct deaths...and nobody is smoking two packs a day of that, for various reasons.

Finally, as for the last comment, that itll be hard to legalize because we don't want people being mowed down by a high moron....do we want people being mowed down by a drunk moron? If and when (and I have my doubts) we ever see this, I'm sure rules will be applied that are AT LEAST as stringent as those for alcohol
[/quote]


Firstly, you are correct in reminding people that what we do with our hookahs aint exactly really traditional.

secondly, The "if we tax it it will help the economy and the deficit" arguement is crap. Since when has the government ever stayed within its budget? If they start making more money from taxation of NHT then they will just spend that money PLUS more they don't have. They always do.

thirdly, i believe the main driving force against legalization isn't the moral majority or any p;oitical group per se, its the DRUG companies. Yes folks, the people who make most of their money off of Xanax, lexipro, klonopin, and a huge host of anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, and feel better drugs would be out a whole shit ton of money if instead of people taking their expensive pills to relax when they get home, they lit up some NHT and chilled to some Doors. It's not where you'd really think about the opposition coming from, but it make a WHOLE lotta sense doesn't it?

so anyways, tread softly on other people's rights to do things cause the states are already after OUR right to smoke. Lets encourage more freedoms and less restrictions shall we?
[/quote]

Mush, you're so totally right about your second statement. I did not think about how they'd be like, "Oh, we gots more moneyz now, let's spend it!" Typical gov...

Everything else you said it completely true as well. Totally agree.

[mushrat]

and for those of you concerned about the content of this thread. as long as it doesn't turn into NHT stories, i'll let it stand. We start getting into "i smoke it" or "my friends did this" kinda shit and it goes away, ok? lets keep this on a slightly higher level.

[mustafabey]

Mushrat said: "thirdly, i believe the main driving force against legalization isn't the moral majority or any p;oitical group per se, its the DRUG companies. Yes folks, the people who make most of their money off of Xanax, lexipro, klonopin, and a huge host of anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, and feel better drugs would be out a whole shit ton of money if instead of people taking their expensive pills to relax when they get home, they lit up some NHT and chilled to some Doors. It's not where you'd really think about the opposition coming from, but it make a WHOLE lotta sense doesn't it?"


Hmm, does seem to make alot sense, these guys make a fortune selling drugs, doctors push them down our throats(At one time I was 16 different meds) and TV tells us to ask our doctor for their miracle drug. Having both spent time in the bar biz and waiting in doctors offices i noticed the drug companies hire the same kind of girl to represent them as does Budweiser with their saleswomen. They would also be highly qualified as hooters waitresses.

[mushrat]

companies using sex to sell drugs?? What a suprise!

then again they use drugs to sell sex so....