So Who Was It That Said Your Taxes Wouldn'T Go Up?

[TheScotsman]

http://www.mytaxburden.org/

Poke your numbers in, and take a look.

Hmmm..... seems even at 15K/yr under the Obama admin, your taxes will be going up.


Proof the president is a liar... again. And that isn't name calling, it is a simple, indisputable fact. I guess if he doesn't like being called a liar, maybe he shouldn't be a liar. When you pledge something won't happen, then allow it to happen with no attempt to prevent it whatsoever, you, Mr President are a liar. OR wait... maybe I have to call him a "miss-stater of facts" so someone doesn't let the factual verbiage ruffle their delicate feathers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AMHnzN24EM

[Venger]

I don't understand why any politician would promise no tax raises. George Bush v1 said "Read my lips,NO NEW TAXES" then boom, dessert storm and up the taxes went. Just once I would like one of these two parties put up someone who says "no promises, I will do the best job I can for America." At least that would be honest.
Ray

[brigita]

[quote name='Venger' date='28 July 2010 - 01:45 PM' timestamp='1280339135' post='476800']
I don't understand why any politician would promise no tax raises.
[/quote]

Honestly, I don't understand why any voter would believe a politician that says such a thing.

[acolorado]

Strange that in every scenario I tried under $200,000 taxes were lowest under the "Obama's Budget" column.

At 15k - taxes are still lower under the "Obama's Budget" column.

So how exactly is Obama raising everyone's taxes when your own calculator shows something different?

It looks like you're perhaps just a "mis-stater of facts" - I say that because I don't want the factual verbiage to ruffle your delicate feathers.

Or maybe you should have actually tried this out before you posted it Champ. Edited July 28, 2010 by acolorado

[Cp44]

lol you lie to get into office then you start bending over the citizens

[Venger]

[quote name='brigita' date='28 July 2010 - 01:55 PM' timestamp='1280339737' post='476802']
[quote name='Venger' date='28 July 2010 - 01:45 PM' timestamp='1280339135' post='476800']
I don't understand why any politician would promise no tax raises.
[/quote]

Honestly, I don't understand why any voter would believe a politician that says such a thing.
[/quote]

I guess this is my point. Why do we as voters put up with this shit. I shouldn't except or expect being lied to. I would really like to trust one of these guys just once.
Ray

[acolorado]

Voting is all about choosing the lesser of two evils.

[Chreees]

I'm never voting again, unless it's for the independent guy. Or really not even then. Only time I'll vote is when we do away with this two-party system and stop allowing people to fund politicians' campaigns.

[NitetimeReign]

I've never believed a politician about taxes unless they said they are going up.

[Rani]

[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' date='28 July 2010 - 02:08 PM' timestamp='1280351333' post='476848']
I'm never voting again, unless it's for the independent guy. Or really not even then. Only time I'll vote is when we do away with this two-party system and stop allowing people to fund politicians' campaigns.
[/quote]

I used to think that way, even went years without voting. And then one day I did some research. In a nation of 308 million people, only about 10% of those are registered to vote. Of that 10%, no more than 60% actually show up at the polls during a high turn out year. So every vote really does count for something. I really wish we had a viable 3rd party, I really do. But unfortunately, at this particular point in time no 3rd party has the power and resources to challenge either of the big two. So unfortunately it's still throwing a vote away when you end up splitting a party and allowing the more corrupt (displayed by excessive election spending and not accounting for it) candidate to waltz into place unchallenged for all intents and purpose. Just another reason we keep getting more and more of the same. We need to get loud and hold our elected officials accountable and we need to vote. Every single one of us, or we have no one to blame but ourselves.

'Rani

[Rani]

[quote name='acolorado' date='28 July 2010 - 11:09 AM' timestamp='1280340544' post='476804']
Strange that in every scenario I tried under $200,000 taxes were lowest under the "Obama's Budget" column.

At 15k - taxes are still lower under the "Obama's Budget" column.

So how exactly is Obama raising everyone's taxes when your own calculator shows something different?

It looks like you're perhaps just a "mis-stater of facts" - I say that because I don't want the factual verbiage to ruffle your delicate feathers.

Or maybe you should have actually tried this out before you posted it Champ.
[/quote]

Facts are irrelevant to the Rabid Right.

'Rani

[TheScotsman]

obama budget is not possible, it's a game played to make it look like he is separate from the party of which he is the single leading power.

If he says he wants something, pelosi, and reed would try to get it for him, even if they had to get shot out of a cannon... ass first... into a field of bear traps. That column is irrelevant at this point. It is the democrat budget... one way or he other. He is the head of the democrat part, the democrat party is Obama... they are tied like Siamese twins playing twister... in a trash compactor.

Lets see him even make any legitimate attempt to put an end to AMT, or any tax increase beyond 2009 statistics for anyone that has an adjusted gross of less than 200K. Hell... let's give him an "He tried" if he even makes a teleprompter presentation of more than 3 sentences, speaking against any single item that would raise tax on anyone with an AGI of <200K. (insert cricket sounds.) Nope, no Obama action to uphold his promises. That makes him... wait for it.... wait... LYING!!!!!

Until then... if someone lies through their teeth about any one this, how the hell can you be dumb enough to believe them about anything else????? chump.

[Rani]

[quote name='TheScotsman' date='28 July 2010 - 08:46 PM' timestamp='1280375186' post='476901']
obama budget is not possible, it's a game played to make it look like he is separate from the party of which he is the single leading power.

If he says he wants something, pelosi, and reed would try to get it for him, even if they had to get shot out of a cannon... ass first... into a field of bear traps. That column is irrelevant at this point. It is the democrat budget... one way or he other. He is the head of the democrat part, the democrat party is Obama... they are tied like Siamese twins playing twister... in a trash compactor.

Lets see him even make any legitimate attempt to put an end to AMT, or any tax increase beyond 2009 statistics for anyone that has an adjusted gross of less than 200K. Hell... let's give him an "He tried" if he even makes a teleprompter presentation of more than 3 sentences, speaking against any single item that would raise tax on anyone with an AGI of <200K. (insert cricket sounds.) Nope, no Obama action to uphold his promises. That makes him... wait for it.... wait... LYING!!!!!

Until then... if someone lies through their teeth about any one this, how the hell can you be dumb enough to believe them about anything else????? chump.
[/quote]

Funny though I haven't heard anything about actually raising taxes. All I've heard is allowing the tax break to expire, which impacts mostly the wealthy. Which means if you're so dramatically against it, you must be very wealthy, right? So when are you buying the bar for us all?

'Rani

[acolorado]

[quote name='Rani' date='28 July 2010 - 11:21 PM' timestamp='1280380867' post='476913']
[quote name='TheScotsman' date='28 July 2010 - 08:46 PM' timestamp='1280375186' post='476901']
obama budget is not possible, it's a game played to make it look like he is separate from the party of which he is the single leading power.

If he says he wants something, pelosi, and reed would try to get it for him, even if they had to get shot out of a cannon... ass first... into a field of bear traps. That column is irrelevant at this point. It is the democrat budget... one way or he other. He is the head of the democrat part, the democrat party is Obama... they are tied like Siamese twins playing twister... in a trash compactor.

Lets see him even make any legitimate attempt to put an end to AMT, or any tax increase beyond 2009 statistics for anyone that has an adjusted gross of less than 200K. Hell... let's give him an "He tried" if he even makes a teleprompter presentation of more than 3 sentences, speaking against any single item that would raise tax on anyone with an AGI of <200K. (insert cricket sounds.) Nope, no Obama action to uphold his promises. That makes him... wait for it.... wait... LYING!!!!!

Until then... if someone lies through their teeth about any one this, how the hell can you be dumb enough to believe them about anything else????? chump.
[/quote]

Funny though I haven't heard anything about actually raising taxes. All I've heard is allowing the tax break to expire, which impacts mostly the wealthy. Which means if you're so dramatically against it, you must be very wealthy, right? So when are you buying the bar for us all?

'Rani
[/quote]

Maybe he just believes in the very conservative principle that the rich should never have to pay taxes.

He's probably been working hard all these years and thinking to himself "Gee, at least because I'm paying my taxes someone who's better off doesn't have to. That just wouldn't be American. Thank God George Bush is saving us all from that Socialist nightmare.".

Of course I might be wrong about that. He could be one of the Teabaggers who wants the government to "keep their hands off my Medicare" or complains about how unfair it is that we have to pay taxes while they're cashing their disability.

Then again, maybe when he voted for George Bush and the other Republicans in 2004 he just didn't realize that someday we would have to pay off the TRILLIONS in debt they were racking up. I recall the last time I pointed that out our friend didn't even know how much they had spent, so maybe he just doesn't follow politics as closely as he would like us to believe.

[jezter6]

[quote name='Rani' date='29 July 2010 - 12:21 AM' timestamp='1280380867' post='476913']
[

Funny though I haven't heard anything about actually raising taxes. All I've heard is allowing the tax break to expire, which impacts mostly the wealthy. Which means if you're so dramatically against it, you must be very wealthy, right? So when are you buying the bar for us all?

'Rani
[/quote]

How is letting tax breaks expire vs raising taxes anything but semantics in the end? All it does is give him an excuse to hide from blame, and apparently it works. In the end, if he doesn't extend the tax cuts, they will go up for many people. Me included, and I'm by no means "rich." But my end tax liability goes up almost $1k (I think it was $944) a year.

[acolorado]

[quote name='jezter6' date='29 July 2010 - 09:08 AM' timestamp='1280416136' post='476936']
[quote name='Rani' date='29 July 2010 - 12:21 AM' timestamp='1280380867' post='476913']
[

Funny though I haven't heard anything about actually raising taxes. All I've heard is allowing the tax break to expire, which impacts mostly the wealthy. Which means if you're so dramatically against it, you must be very wealthy, right? So when are you buying the bar for us all?

'Rani
[/quote]

How is letting tax breaks expire vs raising taxes anything but semantics in the end? All it does is give him an excuse to hide from blame, and apparently it works. In the end, if he doesn't extend the tax cuts, they will go up for many people. Me included, and I'm by no means "rich." But my end tax liability goes up almost $1k (I think it was $944) a year.
[/quote]

The problem here is that when the Republicans controlled Congress and the White House they passed a massive tax break which lost the government 2 Trillion in revenue (the first ever in a time of war - 2 very expensive wars), created a new program which cost over a Trillion bucks, created several new government agencies (like Homeland Security), and failed to cut any spending to compensate.

When they took office with the majority we had a 260 Billion dollar surplus. When they lost the majority we had nearly a trillion dollar deficit. They doubled the national debt while they held office, from 5 Trillion to 10 Trillion. We are STILL paying for most of their mistakes!

The only way to resolve that problem is to raise some taxes and to cut some spending. Those who claim we could start to dig ourselves out of this hole by doing just one of those are simply wrong.

Letting this massive give-away to the rich expire is a good start.

Plus - are you quoting the "Obama's Budget" column or one of the other two - neither of which would be accurate? Because I very much doubt your liability is actually going up unless you're making over 250k a year.

[acolorado]

[quote name='TheScotsman' date='28 July 2010 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1280375186' post='476901']
obama budget is not possible, it's a game played to make it look like he is separate from the party of which he is the single leading power.

If he says he wants something, pelosi, and reed would try to get it for him, even if they had to get shot out of a cannon... ass first... into a field of bear traps. That column is irrelevant at this point. It is the democrat budget... one way or he other. He is the head of the democrat part, the democrat party is Obama... they are tied like Siamese twins playing twister... in a trash compactor.

Lets see him even make any legitimate attempt to put an end to AMT, or any tax increase beyond 2009 statistics for anyone that has an adjusted gross of less than 200K. Hell... let's give him an "He tried" if he even makes a teleprompter presentation of more than 3 sentences, speaking against any single item that would raise tax on anyone with an AGI of <200K. (insert cricket sounds.) Nope, no Obama action to uphold his promises. That makes him... wait for it.... wait... LYING!!!!!

Until then... if someone lies through their teeth about any one this, how the hell can you be dumb enough to believe them about anything else????? chump.
[/quote]

Specifically you say -
"Lets see him even make any legitimate attempt to put an end to AMT, or any tax increase beyond 2009 statistics for anyone that has an adjusted gross of less than 200K. Hell... let's give him an "He tried" if he even makes a teleprompter presentation of more than 3 sentences, speaking against any single item that would raise tax on anyone with an AGI of <200K. (insert cricket sounds.) Nope, no Obama action to uphold his promises. That makes him... wait for it.... wait... LYING!!!!!"

Dang - the White House website has a whole page devoted to the tax cuts that Obama supported and continues to support [url="http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/07/28/extending-high-income-tax-cuts-wrong-answer-recovery"]here[/url] .

He has stated publicly that he opposes raising taxes on the middle class on several occasions. Like [url="http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/weekly-address-relief-middle-class-tax-time"]here[/url] .

You're here telling us something that's not true, and if you are really as informed about this as you would like us to believe, you know that. I guess that makes you... wait for it... wait... oh heck we all already know what you are.

You really need to stop taking everything Rush and Beck say as the gospel truth - you wouldn't wind up looking silly and misinformed time and time again.

[Rani]

[quote name='acolorado' date='29 July 2010 - 09:44 AM' timestamp='1280421862' post='476949']
[quote name='TheScotsman' date='28 July 2010 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1280375186' post='476901']
obama budget is not possible, it's a game played to make it look like he is separate from the party of which he is the single leading power.

If he says he wants something, pelosi, and reed would try to get it for him, even if they had to get shot out of a cannon... ass first... into a field of bear traps. That column is irrelevant at this point. It is the democrat budget... one way or he other. He is the head of the democrat part, the democrat party is Obama... they are tied like Siamese twins playing twister... in a trash compactor.

Lets see him even make any legitimate attempt to put an end to AMT, or any tax increase beyond 2009 statistics for anyone that has an adjusted gross of less than 200K. Hell... let's give him an "He tried" if he even makes a teleprompter presentation of more than 3 sentences, speaking against any single item that would raise tax on anyone with an AGI of <200K. (insert cricket sounds.) Nope, no Obama action to uphold his promises. That makes him... wait for it.... wait... LYING!!!!!

Until then... if someone lies through their teeth about any one this, how the hell can you be dumb enough to believe them about anything else????? chump.
[/quote]

Specifically you say -
"Lets see him even make any legitimate attempt to put an end to AMT, or any tax increase beyond 2009 statistics for anyone that has an adjusted gross of less than 200K. Hell... let's give him an "He tried" if he even makes a teleprompter presentation of more than 3 sentences, speaking against any single item that would raise tax on anyone with an AGI of <200K. (insert cricket sounds.) Nope, no Obama action to uphold his promises. That makes him... wait for it.... wait... LYING!!!!!"

Dang - the White House website has a whole page devoted to the tax cuts that Obama supported and continues to support [url="http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/07/28/extending-high-income-tax-cuts-wrong-answer-recovery"]here[/url] .

He has stated publicly that he opposes raising taxes on the middle class on several occasions. Like [url="http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/weekly-address-relief-middle-class-tax-time"]here[/url] .

You're here telling us something that's not true, and if you are really as informed about this as you would like us to believe, you know that. I guess that makes you... wait for it... wait... oh heck we all already know what you are.

You really need to stop taking everything Rush and Beck say as the gospel truth - you wouldn't wind up looking silly and misinformed time and time again.
[/quote]

There you go with those pesky facts again. What saddens me most of all is that most working class Republicans don't even see their own party is screwing them over and over again in favor of the financially elite among them. It's not about getting a free ride, it's about leveling the playing field so that everyone has the opportunity to improve their standard of living and even become wealthy themselves if they work for it. But the way things are now, you don't have a snowballs chance in hell of achieving the status they have. Small business keeps getting the shaft while huge international conglomerates get all the tax breaks. How is that fair?

'Rani

[Venger]

This is why the income tax is bullshit. Each side gets to give a free pass to the people they feel will give them their vote. The only truly fair way to tax people is a consumption tax. It has been proven that a consumption tax would solve the deficit in less than 10 years. The dems want the "RICH TO PAY" weeeelll if we have a consuption tax they will consume more and there for pay more tax. The reason you will never see this is there is no loop hole. These parasites live for the loophole.
Ray

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Rani' date='29 July 2010 - 12:21 AM' timestamp='1280380867' post='476913']
[quote name='TheScotsman' date='28 July 2010 - 08:46 PM' timestamp='1280375186' post='476901']
obama budget is not possible, it's a game played to make it look like he is separate from the party of which he is the single leading power.

If he says he wants something, pelosi, and reed would try to get it for him, even if they had to get shot out of a cannon... ass first... into a field of bear traps. That column is irrelevant at this point. It is the democrat budget... one way or he other. He is the head of the democrat part, the democrat party is Obama... they are tied like Siamese twins playing twister... in a trash compactor.

Lets see him even make any legitimate attempt to put an end to AMT, or any tax increase beyond 2009 statistics for anyone that has an adjusted gross of less than 200K. Hell... let's give him an "He tried" if he even makes a teleprompter presentation of more than 3 sentences, speaking against any single item that would raise tax on anyone with an AGI of <200K. (insert cricket sounds.) Nope, no Obama action to uphold his promises. That makes him... wait for it.... wait... LYING!!!!!

Until then... if someone lies through their teeth about any one this, how the hell can you be dumb enough to believe them about anything else????? chump.
[/quote]

Funny though I haven't heard anything about actually raising taxes. All I've heard is allowing the tax break to expire, which impacts mostly the wealthy. Which means if you're so dramatically against it, you must be very wealthy, right? So when are you buying the bar for us all?

'Rani
[/quote]


Ah, yes, the word game.

taxes go up, it is called raising your taxes. If wal mart rolls a price back for a few years, then suddenly goes back to the normal price, you would say something to the nature of 'these prices sure went up', or 'they raised the price of my favourite _______.'

Heathcare added a big tax I would not only call that raising taxes, but going above, and beyond, to create a new tax, so they can raise it later! He has already added that tax increase.

He has presided over adding a whole pile of new taxes on businesses, from coal, to banking. Just who do you think pays those taxes in the end? Here is a hint-they pass it on to the end customer - that would be we, the public... you remember, the ones that he promised not to raise taxes "one penny" on. Trying to hide it behind one tier of the supply chain doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that they didn't want us to see it.

The deficit spending needs to be be stopped. We are broke, and the feds are borrowing 43 cents of every $ they are spending. There is no possible way to tax their way out of it, the money just isn't there to tax, no matter how you look at it. All any attempt to tax even a little too much (whatever that point is, IMNHO we have already passed that point) will be to drive business to foreign shores... at a faster rate then it already has.


I spend all my money on toys... just ask my woman, she reminds me of it at least once a week-if not more. It gets harder to hid new stuff under blue tarps all the time. :pardon::pardon:

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='acolorado' date='29 July 2010 - 11:14 AM' timestamp='1280420095' post='476944']
[quote name='jezter6' date='29 July 2010 - 09:08 AM' timestamp='1280416136' post='476936']
[quote name='Rani' date='29 July 2010 - 12:21 AM' timestamp='1280380867' post='476913']
[

Funny though I haven't heard anything about actually raising taxes. All I've heard is allowing the tax break to expire, which impacts mostly the wealthy. Which means if you're so dramatically against it, you must be very wealthy, right? So when are you buying the bar for us all?

'Rani
[/quote]

How is letting tax breaks expire vs raising taxes anything but semantics in the end? All it does is give him an excuse to hide from blame, and apparently it works. In the end, if he doesn't extend the tax cuts, they will go up for many people. Me included, and I'm by no means "rich." But my end tax liability goes up almost $1k (I think it was $944) a year.
[/quote]

[color="#ff0000"][b]The problem here is that when the Republicans controlled Congress and the White House they passed a massive tax break which lost the government 2 Trillion in revenue (the first ever in a time of war - 2 very expensive wars), created a new program which cost over a Trillion bucks, created several new government agencies (like Homeland Security), and failed to cut any spending to compensate.[/b][/color]

[color="#0000ff"][b]When they took office with the majority we had a 260 Billion dollar surplus. When they lost the majority we had nearly a trillion dollar deficit. They doubled the national debt while they held office, from 5 Trillion to 10 Trillion. We are STILL paying for most of their mistakes![/b][/color]

[color="#2e8b57"][b]The only way to resolve that problem is to raise some taxes and to cut some spending. Those who claim we could start to dig ourselves out of this hole by doing just one of those are simply wrong.[/b][/color]

Letting this massive give-away to the rich expire is a good start.

Plus - are you quoting the "Obama's Budget" column or one of the other two - neither of which would be accurate? Because I very much doubt your liability is actually going up unless you're making over 250k a year.
[/quote]

[color="#ff0000"]Agreed. The republicans and their "get tough on crime" mentality meant to scare the public was a disaster. I see newt trying to resurrect a new form of it by scaring people with Islam again. Think the need a new game, I am sick of that one.[/color]

[color="#0000ff"]Most of that surplus came from the Regan era, but more, form defense spending cuts prompted by the end of the cold war, not some economic genius tactics on the part of the dems. I think your numbers are a bit off, but the end result is the same, spending more than you make, and digging a deeper hole. The only debate we could have is the depth of the hole... and that discussion seems silly.
[color="#008000"]
Damn, man, there is hope for you yet! You are starting to sound a little bit fiscally-conservative. Something in the water? The problem I see is that we really have no way to insure a fair level of taxation, and spending cuts. There are still all the same old cronies to protect from any taxes, and the same old political sacred cows to feed. Good luck sorting that out with what we have in office now... on all 3 sides.

[color="#000000"]
My taxes already went up, yours went up, everyone's taxes have gone up. It's called "healthcare reform" and it invoked a new tax. That would constitute "going up" since it will be something you pay, and it's a tax. He has broken his promise already[/color]
[/color][/color]

[thatonethere]

Why, oh why do we continue to expect politicians to be honest. An honest politician is an oxymoron. Year after year, we think a politician will tell the truth one of these days, and everything will be fine. We vote for that guy and the cycle starts all over again.

The politician's job is to win votes, which means they have to tell the people what they want to hear. Always has been, always will be.

If this was said already, sorry for reiterating. I didn't read the whole thread.