Hookah Forum Is Dying

[redjako]

Observation over six months. Lots of "newb" posts get met with immediate derision, sarcasm or "SEARCH FUNCTION."

Points:

-The search function in this forum is broken. In the sense of being useful..to get anything, I need a nice heavy combination of "knowledge" of former key words, + and -'s etc.
-Newbs never read wiki's, or how-to's, etc.

-Traffic drives a forum. Traffic gets melted with pre-registration for views (which this forum removed I believe when their traffic got murdered), and especially when no new topics have heavy answering or discussion. Even a "how to pack tangiers" could have deep discussion, since so many varieties work, and I am SURE like many other addicted Tang smokers, you are constantly tweaking your setup.

-I know most will think "we don't want to answer the same beginner crap all the time." But, sometimes this is necessary to bring those "newbs" up to a moderate level for actual intelligent Hookah discussion. Instead, even simple questions with "inside" conversations amongst senior members kills the thread and causes the poster to leave. How many people who found this site posted a newb question, learned, then came back with intelligent questions?

How has the traffic been from last year to this year?

Wouldn't want to see this forum die, but I barely come back since I don't care to read sarcastic inside jokes between the 5-10 "regulars" who post in every thread. "Advanced" forum as a sub-group would be good for those who feel at a higher level.

Content is dying, forum is dying.

Cheers, constructive feedback is my intention.

--Jako

[Chreees]

Hm... I actually see everything quite the opposite. I can't even REMEMBER the last time I saw someone say "Use the search function." What I've seen is a great community of people who have a lot of hookah knowledge band together and help a new person to the trade until they have it down pat.

The reason HF is "dying," as you say, is because we don't throw out free stuff to people for posting or making youtube vids, and we don't strive to get higher quantities of members. As Mush as always said, it's quality over quantity. On other forums I don't see that. I also do not see the sarcastic inside jokes between the regulars. All I've seen the regulars do is help out people when they've needed it. Sorry we're lacking for you as a forum.

[Allstar]

This is a very true statement. I was on a cigar forum, now being at the time I was working at a cigar shop I knew quite a bit about the subject. This one was based around cubans, something I had sampled and had a small collection but nothing compared to some of the members. I remember going to my first event and people were pulling out cigars worth $150. Some even gave me some because they had gotten tired of smoking that type. I looked to the forum to quickly step up my game. No joy these same members were on there and didn't take kindly to reviews of anything that didn't have at least 5 years of age on it. If you don't know, that can raise the price of a cigar from $15 to $60. Quickly newbs would standout and eventually stop posting. The funny thing was, you had to be invited, you couldn't just join. So in a sense you thought you were elite, but not even close. Please I would hate to see this happen to this site. When I started 6 months ago, you all were very friendly and help me hit the ground running. More like sprint, within my first month on here, I already had more knowledge then my local hookah shop. When I went home, I even sat down with a hookah bar owner and could speak very well on the subject. Please I beg you, lets make a change.

[agunn1231]

I haven't been here too long, just since march, but i don't really see much happening as far as what the OP says, maybe i'm just not paying much attention? any way, the search function on here is a bit confusing.

[redjako]

So, threads with no updates in a week on the first page does not equal less traffic and/or dying?

If that's Quality > quantity, is that whats relevant for a Forum? Or just more of a strange website with infrequent updates?

Is the traffic on this site greater, or less then the last 6 mo, year, 2 years?

When I post on topics for Tang, or brands, and a week later, my last post is still on the same front-page, that's dying. This was not the case a year ago.

Constructive feedback? Am I full of shit? I saw a thread 3 weeks back asking where everyone was...

[Chreees]

You must remember everyone's out having fun during the summer, not sitting at home on the forum. Once school starts back you'll see an increase in traffic.

As for new people leaving so soon, you gotta remember a lot of people once their question is answered they have no desire to stick around. Not everyone is as serious about the hobby as a lot of us are.

[agunn1231]

[quote name='redjako' timestamp='1282622687' post='480059']
So, threads with no updates in a week on the first page does not equal less traffic and/or dying?

If that's Quality > quantity, is that whats relevant for a Forum? Or just more of a strange website with infrequent updates?

Is the traffic on this site greater, or less then the last 6 mo, year, 2 years?

When I post on topics for Tang, or brands, and a week later, my last post is still on the same front-page, that's dying. This was not the case a year ago.

Constructive feedback? Am I full of shit? I saw a thread 3 weeks back asking where everyone was...
[/quote]

i guess there has been less action here since the start of summer. I just figured thats how it was... people change, they find other things to do, they lose interest in hookah, find a new hobby and the amount of folks posting daily goes down....then after a decrese in the amount of people on here, new ones show up....the traffic may pick up again soon.

[Chreees]

[quote name='Allstar' timestamp='1282622121' post='480057']
Please I beg you, lets make a change.
[/quote]

What exactly are you wanting us to change?

[Mikefu]

I am a total newbie to HF, not to hookah, but the amount of knowledge that I have gained through reading and interaction with members here has been astounding. I didn't join because I can't make friends or have a ton of free time to kill, but rather to learn from and talk to folks who are passionate about hookahs and improving the experience. If that is your intent in joining, and assuming that I represent a "normal" new member, I see nothing to change. I was greeted by several folks my first day, became active, and got help on a couple issues, posted some reviews, chatted on TC, and not once was I made to feel less than valued. So, props to the crew.

[ezxen]

Nothing to be said that hasn't bin said above . I do one thing would be nice or cool is a video section for reviews and set ups. When i first game here i was a novice hookah smoker and reading and talking with people here has stepped up my game at least 100% if not more , also my attitude towards hookah has changed since being here because the wealth of knowledge here .

Back to videos for a second . Having more videos done by members from here on set up, how to's, revies would make a world of difference for newbs .
I remember a year ago when i first attempted to make my own shisha i looked at the forums find a little info and failed , flash foreword a few months from that point still people asking how to do it , now flash to now .After at least 4 fails before i got it ok (wrong glycerin ,flavor, tobacco that did not work) I had made my own shisha and it smoked great and had ok flavor .

Then i made a video how to do it and people responded with nothing but positives and now that there was video documentation they could easily do it without worrying about endless trial and error and wondering if this tutorial will work. Now take that same concetp to setting up a bowl or backing tangires , not to say that they can just do a youtube search but if there was a video section on how too's it would be allot easier for others to watch and learn form thou's who have already succeeded at it.

[agunn1231]

[quote name='ezxen' timestamp='1282626788' post='480073']
Nothing to be said that hasn't bin said above . I do one thing would be nice or cool is a video section for reviews and set ups. When i first game here i was a novice hookah smoker and reading and talking with people here has stepped up my game at least 100% if not more , also my attitude towards hookah has changed since being here because the wealth of knowledge here .

Back to videos for a second . Having more videos done by members from here on set up, how to's, revies would make a world of difference for newbs .
I remember a year ago when i first attempted to make my own shisha i looked at the forums find a little info and failed , flash foreword a few months from that point still people asking how to do it , now flash to now .After at least 4 fails before i got it ok (wrong glycerin ,flavor, tobacco that did not work) I had made my own shisha and it smoked great and had ok flavor .

Then i made a video how to do it and people responded with nothing but positives and now that there was video documentation they could easily do it without worrying about endless trial and error and wondering if this tutorial will work. Now take that same concetp to setting up a bowl or backing tangires , not to say that they can just do a youtube search but if there was a video section on how too's it would be allot easier for others to watch and learn form thou's who have already succeeded at it.
[/quote]

you make a very good point, I never think to look for videos, but if ther wa a section here i would check it out

[Rani]

Everything goes through cycles.Including this forum. It tends to slow down in summer, and pick back up when the college students are back on campus. It also goes through cycles when drama hits and members end up leaving over dumb shit. Then others will step up and becomes the latest round of experts and reach out to the newbies. In other worlds it just like life in general. Go figure.

'Rani

[agunn1231]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1282631800' post='480078']
Everything goes through cycles.Including this forum. It tends to slow down in summer, and pick back up when the college students are back on campus. It also goes through cycles when drama hits and members end up leaving over dumb shit. Then others will step up and becomes the latest round of experts and reach out to the newbies. In other worlds it just like life in general. Go figure.

'Rani
[/quote]

I'll smoke to that

[king_lunchb0x]

i'm not sure to what exactly you are comparing this to..most old posts deal with, "what new hookah or setup should i go for" or Review of shisha. Since Now we have review sections the only posts that are left are for help and advice on new purchases. There are regulars that have their inside jokes..COUNTY LAW!
But i would say it has been pretty consistent with threads and replies. Most Troubleshooting threads are solved by these "regulars". They have always been helpful and never held back on info. Just cause they want to everyone to use the search doesn't mean that they don't still answer the questions. Like the Regular/mod incubus said most members dont stick around once their questions are answered... The ones who stick around are in it for the long haul. Wanting to learn as much as they can. You dont have to listen to my opionion since I am a new member but i havent noticed and negative comments (that havent gotten banned from it) which makes me feel good, because were here to learn and help each other, not condescending and annoying. This forum may have dropped off in ur opinion but i have never had a post go unanswered or fall on deaf ears. I will be sticking around as long as i can, until the site shuts down. this may be irrelevant but most members older then 08 arent around anymore maybe its cause they didnt like the way the forum was headed or...they just arent into hookah. It doesn't help either that there are hookah forums popping up left and right.

[withoutink]

Hmm... I'd like to put my two cents in if I may.

I started looking at hookah about a week or so ago. I never smoked one before, Im not even a smoker, but a couple friends smoke the hookah and expressed how relaxing it is. Not knowing anything about the subject I set out to learn a bit and see if this was something I might enjoy. Before my friend told me I could borrow his hobohookah for a week or so, I started doing some research into the subject. Remember, I am a total newbie... or at least I was a week ago.

I found a few forums and vendor sites, I started poking around and finding things that looked interesting. I ended up choosing this forum to start most of my research. I read almost every review under the hookah section, or at least skimmed through. I knew I wanted a small hookah, so I bypassed many of the KM KZ Egyptian etc hookahs, and started focusing on the smaller ones. I ended up reading all the way back to the Smiley $15 Hookah review (which is like one of the first hookah reviews posted here).

I figured out all on my own that I liked the price and look of that hookah, as well as the MYA QT. So, then I started a thread "Recommend a First Hookah and Supplies" (http://www.hookahforum.com/topic/39090-recommend-a-first-hookah-and-supplies/). I think for a newbie I asked some decent questions in that thread. To which I was always replied to in a very nice and favorable fashion. I continued reading reviews, on shisha, coals, hoses and other assorted hookah supplies. Then I would add a question to the thread where maybe I was confused or just plain old had a headache from reading too many opinions. By last friday I had garnered enough knowledge to place a couple orders for hookah supplies. Blue Mya QT, Blue Nammor, Mya Autoseal valve, Alien Bowl, Tangiers and a couple other odds and ends. I feel very comfortable with the purchase, and cant wait to receive the packages.

I talked to various people here in chat and via pm, and everyone has been awesome. A local guy even suggested some places I could check hookah supplies out nearby. I feel pretty welcome here. While the new post counts here don't look to be as active as other forums I belong / belonged to. It still seems like a bunch of great people. The mods seem to be doing a great job of keeping this place clean from NHT stuff, and plain-old-aholes. So kudos to them. I know very well how hard that can be...

Personally, I also have a unique perspective to forums... I have run forums before. I own friendsoffoamy.com and we used to have a rather large following of posters to the forum, now its pretty much dead. We have a few active people and some very attentive mods. But sadly, I don't even make it there but a few times a year. I leave it up there for the newbs who what to chat. I push about 1.5TB of data a month still out of that site, so I will continue to keep it up and kicking till that number dwindles. Its not always easy keeping everyones attention and making people happy. I can attest to the fact our user-ship was the best when we ran contests and were constantly active. We used to have about 300K- 500K unique visitors a month. But that steam ran out when I adopted my son. I also run the corporate forum where I work, its a large intranet for 1500+ store locations (I work for a large franchise system) and it's just hard to keep everyone happy. Specially when they pay us 6% royalties each month ;-)

So, to draw this reply out even longer...

You guys are doing great, everyone has been nice to me. I was concerned about posting at first as I know many other forums that despise newbs My questions never went unanswered, and no one made me feel like a stupid phuck. Now, I have much more understanding of hookah than my friend, who has been smoking in for a number of years. I understand a lot of the little details that most people don't think of. I probably could hold a nice conversation with a fellow hookah aficionado. While I have still lots to learn, I have an amazing amount of understanding -- considering I've only been going at this for ~1 week. I have been to two other forums which I have joined as well. One seems a little awkward, im not sure what to make of it. Lots of reviews. But I don't understand where to post, and I still havent had my acct approved by a mod, so I cant even post. The other seems like an equally informative forum (as this one), but they do seem to want people to post like whores. I come here a number of times a day, and I enjoy reading and sucking up some knowledge from others. So, it is a bummer when I see only a few replies and not a lot of new stuff. But hey thats the way it goes. I also understand the cyclical behavior of forums. So, Im certain things will pick up.

Anyway, just my two cents from someone that has been helped by the wisdom of others here.

Thanks to everyone for their replies, and continued support of my new hobby/addiction.

[mushrat]

Well, this is a common theme of late. And i'll address it if I may.

What we have in this forum is a dedicated core of people who call it home. We also have atleast 3 other forums still active and drawing people where as at one tiem we were the only real hookah forum around. As pointed out above, we ALWAYS slow down over the summer and during school breaks. As also pointed out, soem people come, get their answers and leave. Always has worked that way.

And no we don't have big give aways because we dont have any real vendor advertising. And we don't give away shisha for the most posts as some other places do. What we are is a dedicated group of hookah smokers talking about what we love and helping people who come by with questions. And if you use the advanced settings as intended the search engine can be quite helpful, but YOU have to put in a little effort because unlike any of the other forums we have posts going back 5 or 6 YEARS. Its not that the search engine sucks so much as there is a LOT more information to draw on than in other newer hookah forums.

And since we arent supported by advertising our traffic isn't nearly as important as what we talk about. I also suggest checking the number of visitors we have each day. While we may only have 20 or so registered users on at one time our guests often top 70 or 80 in the last 30 minutes as being reported. People look to us whether or not they make an account and post.

and finally WTF happened to our video section??

I'll call adrock later this afternoon cause we used to have one. If necessary I'll restart the Video sub forum again.

Mushrat

[Chreees]

I'm down for posting some how-to vids, if I ever get the time, lol. School starts back in a week and will greatly reduce my time, but I'll still have time for posting and whatnot on here. Making vids just takes more time.

Mush, very good points about the search engine and how many guests we get everyday. There's a reason HF tops when you do a google search. It's because most topics have been covered at some time in the past, so it's going to show up. As for the search engine, you're totally right about it being spot on if you know how to use it. Clicking Advanced brings it all to the table. My favorite thing is "Search titles only." Either way, with some playing around, it can be useful, like you said.

The ABSOLUTE one thing I love about this forum is it's not geared towards one certain vendor... where you have someone post "What hose should I get?" and you're greeted by "This hose exclusively sold/made by this vendor!" because the only/main reason those people signed up is their love for that vendor. Call out and say you like a different product better, you may get bashed. None of that here, though. I don't think many of you know this, but this forum is run and paid by Adrock, and he actually owns/runs HookahKings.com. Do you see it blasted all over this forum? No. Do you even see it much on the forum? No. That's gotta show you something right there...

[jezter6]

I know it's been said above, but as someone who's been around for 2 years or so, I'll call it as I sees it.

1) Summer slowdown is normal. We'll get a HUGE influx of n00bs come late Aug/Sept as college kids see their first hookah lounge and come looking. This late summer n00b time is sometimes unbearable as we get 1000 of the same old questions, all from the usual n00b which is someone 18-22 young'ns (yes, I'm 30+).

2) There are always cliques here. Noobs come in droves, and as they get to know each other, they tend to gang up and form little chat cliques and yes, they have tons of inside jokes. Sometimes, those groups are good, and sometimes those groups tend to alienate other members. I certainly can speak for that experience for me, as a bunch of new people seemed to "take over" the whole forum for a while, so I stopped coming in as much, and only lurked around because I was just tired of seeing the same posts from the same people.

3) Noobs will not search or read wikis. EVER. Any forum, any subject. I go through the same thing on my homebrew forum. The fact is you have to have experienced members willing to answer the same questions over and over again or the threads will die and nobody will come. You need to have a healthy newcomer population as others get busy with life or stop smoking and can't come online as much. However, between cliques and nobody answering n00bs, it'll certainly alienate the culture of the forum and slow down.

4) We're not the other forums. I sorta got swept up in some of it when I was new to smoking, and I don't know what the hell it is with hookah that is different than other forums...but man you people are just dying for free shisha this, discount coupons that. None of my other hobbies have the proliferation of coupons and discounts that hookah does, and when there are other forums out there just trying to draw customers with free crap - people will flock. I happily understood that I liked the culture of this forum more than I liked free crap, and that's why I've stayed here for 2 years.

5) This is the one that bothers me most. There was one clique a bit back that decided to start up vid chatting. It's cool that you want to do that, and I understand this forum doesn't directly offer it...but driving traffic to another site (the vid chat site) takes traffic from this forum and chat room. I don't go to those sites, so therefore I'm out of the clique.

6) Maybe we've run out of things to talk about. The amount of "new" stuff that's happening in hookah recently has gone down quite a bit.

7) End of rant.

[Cp44]

I've only been here a short time so I can't really say much. But I've enjoyed it so far.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

playing Devil's advocate: most people here are serious about hookah and this site might be a self-contained hobby hype engine without proper perspective when it comes to the rest of the hookah world. Is the hookah-trend itself dying down? You/we see it as a lifestyle but the rest of the world just simply does not. Also with smoking bans everywhere are people not being introduced to hookah through hookahbars nearly as often and thus are not coming here for further advice as a percentage of potential smokers are never even introduced to the hobby in the first place? That would explain a lack of new and old traffic.

This is a niche hobby that has garnered lots of public attention in the last 5(-10?) years but remains a niche market even within the wide world of smoking.

And what Mush said. And what Incurage said.

Also, there HAVE been times in my tenure here in which certain members have gotten a bit more agressive or impatient but they generally end up being called out and leaving. So I'll conceed that I've seen that behavior before many a time but it tends to be in small doses or among a select couple. Perhaps that is simply easier to spot since the forum has died down and there are less posters in general to camouflage it.

To those who MAY be acting a fool or being impatient with n00bs, knock it the %$#^ off, you were new once also and this forum is generally a positive place of learning and sharing. I believe most of us feel this way.

And I STILL don't like the newer layout; I think it's less conducive to rapid navigation and posting and that may turn others off as well? I'm pretty active on my fantasy basketball forum partly because they use the older layout we used to.

my .04 < see what I did there?

[Tom1]

The first rule of hookah forum is that you do not talk about hookah forum, rookie mistake.

[Click]

Hookah is not that complicated.  I mean how many threads can we have over and over on the same topic until it all starts to become a little repetitive.  It is true that the best part of the forum, for me at least, is when there are new breakthroughs or products in the hookah world and to share opinions on those new products, techniques, etc.

[Fumo1]

I've been reading on quite a few forums lately and I like the fact that this forum is not one big advertisement. I think the moderators do a fine job of keeping the balance. I do think video would be a nice enhancement.

[Arcane]

busy or not...i like it here.

[Venger]

me too. More of a serious yet casual atmosphere. Very few bromances or dramas.
Ray