Molly Norris In Hiding

[Rani]

[quote name='noodle' timestamp='1284952119' post='482600']
[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1284951184' post='482597']
[quote name='noodle' timestamp='1284948387' post='482591']
[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1284944098' post='482588']
[quote name='noodle' timestamp='1284943137' post='482585']
Nobody is forcing them to sit down and draw pictures. That would be having their taboo violated. I have no such taboo. Why should I adopt that taboo?
[/quote]

Let me try this again.......

Okay, I'm sitting in a park. I'm minding my own business, reading a book. You come along and sit near me, without a book. You're not bothering me. You're not insisting I stop reading. You're quietly minding your own business, not bothering anybody, least of all me. I reach over and poke you in the arm. Why on earth would I do that, you wonder? Maybe you move a couple inches away. I poke you again. And I tell you that I don't like that you're not reading. If you're going to be in the park, you have to read. Your not reading in the park is offensive to me and since I was there first my opinion about reading is the only one that matters. You refuse still, you don't want to read, so instead I yell to everyone in the park that you should be reading. I insist that you have to be reading because you're in the park and [b][color="#4b0082"]I invite everyone in the park to help me gang up on you [/color][/b]because you're not reading.

That's exactly what she did.

'Rani
[/quote]

I'm not making any sense of that. Try this: Alice is sitting in a park talking to a group of people about why broccoli is bad. Bob holds broccoli to be holy and therefore pictures shouldn't be drawn of it. Bob is infuriated that people are besmirching his holy vegetable and even drawing pictures of it. Bob demands Alice and her listeners to stop bashing broccoli. Alice shrugs and says "What's your problem? We don't like broccoli. What's it to you?".
[/quote]

That would depend on whether or not he tried to get the entire world in on his personal vendetta against people who don't like broccoli, wouldn't it? The woman tried to get the entire world against their religious prohibition. How does that not compute?

'Rani
[/quote]

It doesn't matter if Bob gets lots of people in on his vendetta or if he does it on his own. He has no right to interfere in Alice's dislike of broccoli. He may say "you're cooking it wrong" start preaching about how broccoli is wonderful, or simply say "you're full of albatross guano", but [color="#4B0082"][b]he may not legitimately interfere with Alice's actions. Conversely, Alice has no right to go on a rampage stamping out broccoli.[/b][/color]
[/quote]

Do you see what you yourself said above? Alice has exactly the same right to her vendetta as he does to his.

I'm arguing with a brick wall.

'Rani

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1284784366' post='482465']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1284784159' post='482464']
[quote name='noodle' timestamp='1284765132' post='482437']
The difference is that drawing a picture of Muhammad is something that in modern times should not be taken as an insult. I am not willing to accept a world where I may only do what radical muslims will permit me to do. When was the last time someone went on a murderous rampage because someone said something mean about Jesus?
[/quote]

That's because the vast majority of Islam is stuck in the 8th century, and it's never coming out.
[/quote]

Obviously you don't know many Muslims.

'Rani
[/quote]

1994-1996-2 rotations in Bosnia
17 Nov-91 through 12 April-91 Kuwait/K.of S.A.-in to cover the prime BEEF, and out with the last goat-caravan.
Both of which I closed my business to go fight for Muslims, at their request, I may add.
Yep I know a few Muslims, saved some, shot at by some, and shot at some.

My woman's best friend is a Christian Persian who managed to escape with her sister in the mid 1990's, you should hear the stories about your tolerant Muslims, and that cult of insanity.

The more fundamentalist they are, the more backward they are.

While we are at it... I think that also applies to more than a few Christian sects, however, I don't see some fake-ass, ginned up christian, or Jewish organization threatening everyone from teachers, to text book publishers in an attempt to hide their bloody-terrorist past like the Muslims are.
I don't see Jewish, or Christian orginizations openly threatening to assassinate private citizens over some stupidity that they choose to take as an insult, the the Muslims are.
No Rabbis, or priests are out to behead the writers of South Park... like the Muslims are.
Muslims chased a disabled (blind) teacher out of a HS here in MN, because they couldn't be tolerant of her need of a sight dog. Find me a Rabbi firing a teacher over a pepperoni pizza, or having a bag of piggy-puffs in her lunch, come on, I'm waiting.
Taxpayer funded public schools required to teach islam religious studies in HS under threat of muslim student/parent violence Now, just where can you show me the catholics threatening the public schools over no catechism classes? Er, no??? you can't? funny how that is, isn't it?
Ever see christians threaten enough violence to shut an art exhibit at a museum? Muslims have.
I could go on for pages, but you get the point.

I think we have tolerated enough. Time for them to start tolerating western culture, or go the fuck back to camel-land.

[Rani]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1284958024' post='482605']
[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1284784366' post='482465']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1284784159' post='482464']
[quote name='noodle' timestamp='1284765132' post='482437']
The difference is that drawing a picture of Muhammad is something that in modern times should not be taken as an insult. I am not willing to accept a world where I may only do what radical muslims will permit me to do. When was the last time someone went on a murderous rampage because someone said something mean about Jesus?
[/quote]

That's because the vast majority of Islam is stuck in the 8th century, and it's never coming out.
[/quote]

Obviously you don't know many Muslims.

'Rani
[/quote]

1994-1996-2 rotations in Bosnia
17 Nov-91 through 12 April-91 Kuwait/K.of S.A.-in to cover the prime BEEF, and out with the last goat-caravan.
Both of which I closed my business to go fight for Muslims, at their request, I may add.
Yep I know a few Muslims, saved some, shot at by some, and shot at some.

My woman's best friend is a Christian Persian who managed to escape with her sister in the mid 1990's, you should hear the stories about your tolerant Muslims, and that cult of insanity.

The more fundamentalist they are, the more backward they are.

While we are at it... I think that also applies to more than a few Christian sects, however, I don't see some fake-ass, ginned up christian, or Jewish organization threatening everyone from teachers, to text book publishers in an attempt to hide their bloody-terrorist past like the Muslims are.
I don't see Jewish, or Christian orginizations openly threatening to assassinate private citizens over some stupidity that they choose to take as an insult, the the Muslims are.
No Rabbis, or priests are out to behead the writers of South Park... like the Muslims are.
Muslims chased a disabled (blind) teacher out of a HS here in MN, because they couldn't be tolerant of her need of a sight dog. Find me a Rabbi firing a teacher over a pepperoni pizza, or having a bag of piggy-puffs in her lunch, come on, I'm waiting.
Taxpayer funded public schools required to teach islam religious studies in HS under threat of muslim student/parent violence Now, just where can you show me the catholics threatening the public schools over no catechism classes? Er, no??? you can't? funny how that is, isn't it?
Ever see christians threaten enough violence to shut an art exhibit at a museum? Muslims have.
I could go on for pages, but you get the point.

I think we have tolerated enough. Time for them to start tolerating western culture, or go the fuck back to camel-land.
[/quote]

I already knew where you stood on the issue, so I'm not surprised at your reference to "camel land". Throw in a couple "ragheads" for good measure, okay. . And i'm essentially done with the discussion in any case. You and Noodle can go over there and be as inflexible and intolerant as you choose, and I'll be over here trying to make my little piece of the world a little better place. Because in the end, we don't hurt anyone else with separatism, we only lose out ourselves. And I choose not to do that. So you guys go duke it out with all of Islam. I'll be over here doing otherwise and trying to learn from other faiths and cultures.

The Riddler to Two-Face in Batman Returns: "If you kill him, he won't learn nothin'." Some people never will.

'Rani

[noodle]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1284955086' post='482603']
[quote name='noodle' timestamp='1284952119' post='482600']
[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1284951184' post='482597']
[quote name='noodle' timestamp='1284948387' post='482591']
I'm not making any sense of that. Try this: Alice is sitting in a park talking to a group of people about why broccoli is bad. Bob holds broccoli to be holy and therefore pictures shouldn't be drawn of it. Bob is infuriated that people are besmirching his holy vegetable and even drawing pictures of it. Bob demands Alice and her listeners to stop bashing broccoli. Alice shrugs and says "What's your problem? We don't like broccoli. What's it to you?".
[/quote]

That would depend on whether or not he tried to get the entire world in on his personal vendetta against people who don't like broccoli, wouldn't it? The woman tried to get the entire world against their religious prohibition. How does that not compute?

'Rani
[/quote]

It doesn't matter if Bob gets lots of people in on his vendetta or if he does it on his own. He has no right to interfere in Alice's dislike of broccoli. He may say "you're cooking it wrong" start preaching about how broccoli is wonderful, or simply say "you're full of albatross guano", but [color="#4b0082"][b]he may not legitimately interfere with Alice's actions. Conversely, Alice has no right to go on a rampage stamping out broccoli.[/b][/color]
[/quote]

Do you see what you yourself said above? Alice has exactly the same right to her vendetta as he does to his.

I'm arguing with a brick wall.

'Rani
[/quote]

Good. Now we're getting somewhere. Given that neither Alice nor Bob have any legitimacy in forcing the other to adopt their own views, then how does this principle not apply to Islam?

[kmccoy90]

Rani, I've found that tolerance, respect, and compassion have a much greater endurance through the test of time. Frustrated as we may be reading through the ignorance and intolerance that has permeated this thread, as long as we continue to follow our personal doctrine, we'll have success eventually. It might not be now, but it will come.

We won't persuade the far right, but the centrists and uninformed are more likely to associate themselves with happy, compassionate, understanding individuals eventually. It is with this in mind that I simply agree to disagree with those who cannot be persuaded, and continue to try and show compromise and understanding as the proper ideology of coexistence.

The time spent arguing with these brick walls is better spent joining with those who are more likely to join us in our pursuit of a peaceful, symbiotic global culture.

[Rani]

[quote name='kmccoy90' timestamp='1285028014' post='482653']
Rani, I've found that tolerance, respect, and compassion have a much greater endurance through the test of time. Frustrated as we may be reading through the ignorance and intolerance that has permeated this thread, as long as we continue to follow our personal doctrine, we'll have success eventually. It might not be now, but it will come.

We won't persuade the far right, but the centrists and uninformed are more likely to associate themselves with happy, compassionate, understanding individuals eventually. It is with this in mind that I simply agree to disagree with those who cannot be persuaded, and continue to try and show compromise and understanding as the proper ideology of coexistence.

The time spent arguing with these brick walls is better spent joining with those who are more likely to join us in our pursuit of a peaceful, symbiotic global culture.
[/quote]

Absolutely. Read up two to my last post. Sometimes it takes me a little longer than others to get back to equanimity, but eventually I get there!

'Rani

[Yasseah]

Non-islam's should feel no obligation whatsoever to "show respect" by not drawing the prophet Muhammad.

The Muhammad drawings are a good thing because it's showing Islam radicals that they can't dictate to the rest of the world what they can and can't draw.

Respect for one's religion isn't the issue, it's the Muslims who are upset about this who need to learn to respect everyone else.

[Yasseah]

I mean, it's not burning Qur'ans

[Venger]

[quote name='Yasseah' timestamp='1285610984' post='483303']
I mean, it's not burning Qur'ans
[/quote]

I am a Christian. Not a Baptist,Lutheran,or what ever other flavors there are. The word Christian only mean to be Christ like. I know its corny but remember those bracelets WWJD well thats how I see it. There is nothing special about a bible. Like all religions since we can not see God we deify everything about what we do see. Crosses, saints, rosary, and bibles. These are just things that represent a thing but they are not that thing. If Jesus had been hung with a robe or had his head cut off would we all wear nooses or battle axes and would these things be sacred? Burn the bible I don't care it is just a book. If you were to burn curious George would you be insulting all monkeys or guys who wear yellow hate? no the idea will continue on even after the paper is nothing but ash.
Ray
Pastor of the church of "it's just that simple"

[noodle]

[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1285613630' post='483312']
[quote name='Yasseah' timestamp='1285610984' post='483303']
I mean, it's not burning Qur'ans
[/quote]

I am a Christian. Not a Baptist,Lutheran,or what ever other flavors there are. The word Christian only mean to be Christ like. I know its corny but remember those bracelets WWJD well thats how I see it. There is nothing special about a bible. Like all religions since we can not see God we deify everything about what we do see. Crosses, saints, rosary, and bibles. These are just things that represent a thing but they are not that thing. If Jesus had been hung with a robe or had his head cut off would we all wear nooses or battle axes and would these things be sacred? Burn the bible I don't care it is just a book. If you were to burn curious George would you be insulting all monkeys or guys who wear yellow hate? no the idea will continue on even after the paper is nothing but ash.
Ray
Pastor of the church of "it's just that simple"
[/quote]

The burning of a Koran is more complex than burning a simple effigy or symbol. First, burning a symbol in a way that doesn't resemble a funeral pyre tends to be taken as an expression of contempt. For instance, hanging a flag on a short staff and setting on fire in the street as is often seen in protests. Boy Scouts burn flags too, but they play funeral music (taps) while laying the flag atop a campfire. Second, the book is an ancient symbol of knowledge. To destroy any book is taken as an expression of wilful ignorance and the desire to use ignorance to subjugate others. For example, the Nazis burned books by Jewish authors in an attempt to erase the idea that Jews could possibly have something positive to offer. So, does one burn a Koran to express distain for Islam or does one not burn a Koran because of the reverence most cultures, including ours, show for knowledge? Edited September 27, 2010 by noodle