Don'T Ask,Don'T Tell

[mustafabey]

The Scotsman said" No one is saying that LGB can't serve, just that they can't act out their sex life on military reservations, with other soldiers."

Thats about it,Scotty in a nutshell. I know there was plenty of adjustment problems adding women to the mix in the 80's. I've had veterans of those days tell me tales about prostitution, sexual harassment,favors etc. Yet the military survived and it will survive this too, but what you said,"No one is saying that LGB can't serve, just that they can't act out their sex life on military reservations, with other soldiers." should be the guideline.

[lilhobbit]

You know everybody on this subject is making good points on both sides. I'm doing an argumentive report on this for my English class. I really didn't know much about this topic until Adam (Nitetime Reign) told me about this link and started doing research on my own. I think homsexuals should be able to serve, but I also see where taking showers together would be a problem too.
Is this where cohesion would fall into place?

I some how have to make a survey and have people fill it out and I was wondering if and when I make it will you all fill it out. Or if anybody can help me build the survey regarding this DADT

Cass

[lilhobbit]

People are saying the DADT is unconstitutional. Are they meaning freedom of speech? Or freedom to serve in the military?

[TheyCallMeDave]

After some more thinking, I have come to another thought...

Although I DO believe fellow gays need to stop pouting and live their lives, one of the rebuttals given from the oppposing side on how a gay man reduces the feeling of strength and military unity due to possible feelings of inferiority within the military, what about gay women? Or even further, very openly butch women?

Isn't the attention now turned to the straight women, who in this case, compared to a manly gay woman seen as the more feminine, inferior and weaker of the two? But DADT would still apply to a gay women. Although I see the logic in the rebuttal, it doesn't seem to have very good consistancy.

[Venger]

[quote name='TheyCallMeDave' timestamp='1288674716' post='487069']
After some more thinking, I have come to another thought...

Although I DO believe fellow gays need to stop pouting and live their lives, one of the rebuttals given from the oppposing side on how a gay man reduces the feeling of strength and military unity due to possible feelings of inferiority within the military, what about gay women? Or even further, very openly butch women?

Isn't the attention now turned to the straight women, who in this case, compared to a manly gay woman seen as the more feminine, inferior and weaker of the two? But DADT would still apply to a gay women. Although I see the logic in the rebuttal, it doesn't seem to have very good consistancy.
[/quote]

DADT should apply to all humans regardless of their sexuality. You don't need to know if I have a wife,a girlfriend, or a boyfriend. It has no baring on how well I can serve my country. The real question is why don't we have a mandatory serve in this country. Being in the armed forces isn't just about being able to fight anymore. There are techie jobs as well as service positions like communication, medical and clerical. Every voting citizen should serve 2 years before they can vote.
Ray

[mustafabey]

[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1288701509' post='487099']
[quote name='TheyCallMeDave' timestamp='1288674716' post='487069']
After some more thinking, I have come to another thought...

Although I DO believe fellow gays need to stop pouting and live their lives, one of the rebuttals given from the oppposing side on how a gay man reduces the feeling of strength and military unity due to possible feelings of inferiority within the military, what about gay women? Or even further, very openly butch women?

Isn't the attention now turned to the straight women, who in this case, compared to a manly gay woman seen as the more feminine, inferior and weaker of the two? But DADT would still apply to a gay women. Although I see the logic in the rebuttal, it doesn't seem to have very good consistancy.
[/quote]

DADT should apply to all humans regardless of their sexuality. You don't need to know if I have a wife,a girlfriend, or a boyfriend. It has no baring on how well I can serve my country. The real question is why don't we have a mandatory serve in this country. Being in the armed forces isn't just about being able to fight anymore. There are techie jobs as well as service positions like communication, medical and clerical. Every voting citizen should serve 2 years before they can vote.
Ray
[/quote]

I might change that to two years of government service period with a variety of places. People could work on Indian reservations and inner cities dealing with health and education. We sure could use rural health care out here as no doctor or HMO wants to spend all that money for little return. Borders need police too. There's plenty of other places too. I'd exempt certain military outfits like the Marines, Special Forces, Seals, Airborne etc as their esprite de corps would suffer with non volunteers. In Vietnam being a draftee marine wasn't a pleasant trip until you proved yourself. However they'd fuck it up, send all the poor kids to shit holes and politicans sons would get to work at government golf courses and daddy's office etc. look how few politicians kids serve today. None or almost none. I think at one time Biden's kid was the only one. Can't imagine Chelsea Clinton or Jenna Bush cleaning out a toilet and eating shit on a shingle every morning for breakfast( BUT shit on a shingle, if done right can be a beautiful thing)

[lilhobbit]

I'm doing a survey on don't ask, don't ask tell for class. If you would like to participate here is the link. I think you need a facebook account. if you don't have a facebook account and want to help me out, you can pm and I'll send you the questions. [url="http://apps.facebook.com/questionnaires/answer.php?survey_id=183364765&ref=mf"]http://apps.facebook.com/questionnaires/answer.php?survey_id=183364765&ref=mf[/url]

For all those who already did the survey (Jordan and Hallie) Thank you very much.

[mustafabey]

DADT is back! Thanks to a republican/tea party victory in the house, it looks like equal rights for gays in the military is doomed for the time being. Meanwhile I will be getting out my RayBan wayfarers,my Madras shirt and chinos with the buckle on the back and prepare for the trip back to the 50's If we can repeal health care maybe we can repeal all those nasty civil rights laws and socialist entitlements. Paying unemployment is gonna bankrupt America. Yessir Beaver,June and Ward Cleaver never had trouble with Mexicans. Send Obama to the back of the bus. Rant concluded, thank you:smiley-angry021:

[Rani]

[quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1289497812' post='487969']
DADT is back! Thanks to a republican/tea party victory in the house, it looks like equal rights for gays in the military is doomed for the time being. Meanwhile I will be getting out my RayBan wayfarers,my Madras shirt and chinos with the buckle on the back and prepare for the trip back to the 50's If we can repeal health care maybe we can repeal all those nasty civil rights laws and socialist entitlements. Paying unemployment is gonna bankrupt America. Yessir Beaver,June and Ward Cleaver never had trouble with Mexicans. Send Obama to the back of the bus. Rant concluded, thank you:smiley-angry021:
[/quote]

Maybe it's just me, but the political landscape is being to look terrifying similar to old prewar films out of 1930's Germany. We have the same situation we had then. World depression and joblessness, and celebrity "leaders" gaining personal power and wealth by feeding into the fear, hatred and bigotry. We know what happened then, 17 million civilians and innumerable soldiers lying dead later. We've set foot on that same road. Evil is slippery. It creeps up on you. Good and moral people don't turn into maniacal destroyers of life and liberty overnight. They start with one step down that road and before they know it, they have become what they once abhorred. If we don't turn around now, we will become the shame that lasts through generation after generation. The Sins of the Father isn't a curse. It's a warning.

'Rani

[mustafabey]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1289505941' post='487983']
[quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1289497812' post='487969']
DADT is back! Thanks to a republican/tea party victory in the house, it looks like equal rights for gays in the military is doomed for the time being. Meanwhile I will be getting out my RayBan wayfarers,my Madras shirt and chinos with the buckle on the back and prepare for the trip back to the 50's If we can repeal health care maybe we can repeal all those nasty civil rights laws and socialist entitlements. Paying unemployment is gonna bankrupt America. Yessir Beaver,June and Ward Cleaver never had trouble with Mexicans. Send Obama to the back of the bus. Rant concluded, thank you:smiley-angry021:
[/quote]

Maybe it's just me, but the political landscape is being to look terrifying similar to old prewar films out of 1930's Germany. We have the same situation we had then. World depression and joblessness, and celebrity "leaders" gaining personal power and wealth by feeding into the fear, hatred and bigotry. We know what happened then, 17 million civilians and innumerable soldiers lying dead later. We've set foot on that same road. Evil is slippery. It creeps up on you. Good and moral people don't turn into maniacal destroyers of life and liberty overnight. They start with one step down that road and before they know it, they have become what they once abhorred. If we don't turn around now, we will become the shame that lasts through generation after generation. The Sins of the Father isn't a curse. It's a warning.

'Rani
[/quote]

Yes,Rani when i was a young student of history I could never understand why Germany allowed Hitler to happen, but now, after seeing whats happening in American politics i can surely see how Nazism happened.It appears no one has the balls to stand up this. Instead we must be afraid. Yesterday, while driving to the store, I heard Glenn Beck(you know, the restore honor guy) advocating the buying of a years supply of frozen food and large freezer because George Soros is going to collapse the economy and/or raise food prices. Out here I recall, when Russia invaded Georgia during the Ossetia crisis, my girlfriends neighbors were quite worried that they might get as far as North Carolina. Oh shit there goes Charlotte and Nascar, what are we gonna do?I'm beginning to think the only one out there close to the truth is Michael Moore

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1289497812' post='487969']
DADT is back! Thanks to a republican/tea party victory in the house, it looks like equal rights for gays in the military is doomed for the time being. Meanwhile I will be getting out my RayBan wayfarers,my Madras shirt and chinos with the buckle on the back and prepare for the trip back to the 50's If we can repeal health care maybe we can repeal all those nasty civil rights laws and socialist entitlements. Paying unemployment is gonna bankrupt America. Yessir Beaver,June and Ward Cleaver never had trouble with Mexicans. Send Obama to the back of the bus. Rant concluded, thank you:smiley-angry021:
[/quote]

You demonstrate a marked misunderstanding of the legal process, and an intense case of conservative-derangement syndrome.

It had jack to do with any republicans.

It was your messiah's Attorney General, Eric Holder, that brought the suit in favour of DADT---- You know, last time I checked, he was a Liberal-Progressive.

Your DEM controlled Senate punted on the question-specifically Blanche Lincoln (D) , and Mark Pryor (D) that sided with the[u] minority[/u] repubs in support of a threatened filibuster that stopped action in the senate.



Oh, but it's the repubs. Feckin' funny. Wrong, but still funny.


Want to put an end to the problem once and for all??? I say we need to reinstate the draft. Suddenly the LGBT community would be really happy they had an out, just like they did pre-Nixon... You remember, the REPUB president that ended the draft, right?

[mustafabey]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1289845152' post='488362']
[quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1289497812' post='487969']
DADT is back! Thanks to a republican/tea party victory in the house, it looks like equal rights for gays in the military is doomed for the time being. Meanwhile I will be getting out my RayBan wayfarers,my Madras shirt and chinos with the buckle on the back and prepare for the trip back to the 50's If we can repeal health care maybe we can repeal all those nasty civil rights laws and socialist entitlements. Paying unemployment is gonna bankrupt America. Yessir Beaver,June and Ward Cleaver never had trouble with Mexicans. Send Obama to the back of the bus. Rant concluded, thank you:smiley-angry021:
[/quote]

You demonstrate a marked misunderstanding of the legal process, and an intense case of conservative-derangement syndrome.

It had jack to do with any republicans.

It was your messiah's Attorney General, Eric Holder, that brought the suit in favour of DADT---- You know, last time I checked, he was a Liberal-Progressive.

Your DEM controlled Senate punted on the question-specifically Blanche Lincoln (D) , and Mark Pryor (D) that sided with the[u] minority[/u] repubs in support of a threatened filibuster that stopped action in the senate.



Oh, but it's the repubs. Feckin' funny. Wrong, but still funny.


Want to put an end to the problem once and for all??? I say we need to reinstate the draft. Suddenly the LGBT community would be really happy they had an out, just like they did pre-Nixon... You remember, the REPUB president that ended the draft, right?
[/quote]

I think one thing you and I can agree on is that this nation is going in the wrong direction. I think the majority of Americans feel that way. Whats happened is that our agendas have been hijacked by Tea Party types and by Nancy Pelosi types. First, lets get a few things straight. I am not a democrat and Obama is not my messiah. I split my ticket this election and am severely disappointed in Mr.Obama's lackluster somewhat sold out performance. The powers that be, dem or repub, seem to lead us away from the real issues with fear and hate tactics. We wind up parroting these issues, meanwhile middle class America is being destroyd and robbed. Whether it be multinationals taking away our jobs, or socialists funding not just the poor but the lazy, either way, it comes out of our wallets. But we tend to blame those upon whom our hate has been focused. My post was intended to be tongue in cheek, rather than anything meaty. I see a decided nostalgia for a time when America seemed simpler.Perhaps that makes immigration issues and racial, sexual.and religious issues easier to deal with. Maybe someone will make it go away. The problem is that this culture of hate is bringing to the fore front the kind of people that always rise to the surface during times of trouble. Demigogues, and we have our share of those nowadays. These folks are already solving our problems in ways, we as Americans would normally never stand for. I'm talking torture, rendition, military tribunals. Things that hand in hand with a totalitarian state. The slip into that totalitarianism can come from both sides of our liberal/conservative fence. A Hitler is no different than a Stalin. Scotty, it ain't about right or left, liberal or conservative, its about America and we need to start thinking for ourselves and not let Glenn Beck or Keith Olbermann do our thinking for us. Only by coming together, focusing on the real issues can we save this great nation from disaster. Hatred never solved any problem well.Division never brought about solidarity. Division and hate have been used time and again to manipulate people into a corner where they become controlled and impotent. Scotty, I don't doubt for a minute that you are a patriot and that you are concerned with this country. What people like you and I need to do is find some common ground to put this mess back together.

[r1v3th3ad]

my 2cents : I don't care what sex or sexual orientation someone is that is in military service, I just care that they are capable to defend me

[mustafabey]

It is training rather than sexual orientation that makes a soldier capable in combat.

I was thinking that if DADT is someday repealed and gay people will be able to enter the military freely that they will need lots of courage. Courage is what's needed in combat. I recall that the reactions of people to combat stress had little to do with their size,physical strength, or "bad ass" attitude. It had to do with courage, and courage is being able to make the right decisions and carry out actions under a stress that most people will not be able to comprehend.

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1289860545' post='488385']
It is training rather than sexual orientation that makes a soldier capable in combat.

I was thinking that if DADT is someday repealed and gay people will be able to enter the military freely that they will need lots of courage. Courage is what's needed in combat. I recall that the reactions of people to combat stress had little to do with their size,physical strength, or "bad ass" attitude. It had to do with courage, and courage is being able to make the right decisions and carry out actions under a stress that most people will not be able to comprehend.
[/quote]

That's a bit old school.
All the training in the world is useless without the necessary-3; Motivation, Desire, and Means.

"It's all in the training"... that is something you tell some low-ball who is on his 5,000th time at trying to put his gear on with the buttons in the front.


In any case, which line do the LGBT persons go into to get sexually assaulted, and groped by the TSA? Same sex as equipped, or same sex as desired? Hell, they pick the wrong line, they are never making it to training, they will instead be in some dark little TSA interview room.

[mustafabey]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1290122851' post='488728']
[quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1289860545' post='488385']
It is training rather than sexual orientation that makes a soldier capable in combat.

I was thinking that if DADT is someday repealed and gay people will be able to enter the military freely that they will need lots of courage. Courage is what's needed in combat. I recall that the reactions of people to combat stress had little to do with their size,physical strength, or "bad ass" attitude. It had to do with courage, and courage is being able to make the right decisions and carry out actions under a stress that most people will not be able to comprehend.
[/quote]

That's a bit old school.
All the training in the world is useless without the necessary-3; Motivation, Desire, and Means.

"It's all in the training"... that is something you tell some low-ball who is on his 5,000th time at trying to put his gear on with the buttons in the front.


In any case, which line do the LGBT persons go into to get sexually assaulted, and groped by the TSA? Same sex as equipped, or same sex as desired? Hell, they pick the wrong line, they are never making it to training, they will instead be in some dark little TSA interview room.
[/quote]

First off, I am old school. Of course you need motivation, desire and means, you also need leadership, armaments and whole a whole lot of other stuff. And that wasn,t the point I was making. I figured that was obvious. Your somewhat old school yourself Scotty, I reckon. I know my attitude 40 years ago when I was in the Marines was probably pretty homophobic. Thing is time has changed. Change is the one constant in everything. You can't fight a war with obsolete weapons and you can't fight with obsolete ideas.When I was born, African Americans were still segregated in the military. Deemed not equal to white troops. yet some of the bravest men I've known have been Black Marines, not segregated but in the same hole with rest of us. Christ, Scotty you live on the Rez, didn't those Anishinaabe teach you anything about being a warrior?

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1290136215' post='488745']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1290122851' post='488728']
[quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1289860545' post='488385']
It is training rather than sexual orientation that makes a soldier capable in combat.

I was thinking that if DADT is someday repealed and gay people will be able to enter the military freely that they will need lots of courage. Courage is what's needed in combat. I recall that the reactions of people to combat stress had little to do with their size,physical strength, or "bad ass" attitude. It had to do with courage, and courage is being able to make the right decisions and carry out actions under a stress that most people will not be able to comprehend.
[/quote]

That's a bit old school.
All the training in the world is useless without the necessary-3; Motivation, Desire, and Means.

"It's all in the training"... that is something you tell some low-ball who is on his 5,000th time at trying to put his gear on with the buttons in the front.


In any case, which line do the LGBT persons go into to get sexually assaulted, and groped by the TSA? Same sex as equipped, or same sex as desired? Hell, they pick the wrong line, they are never making it to training, they will instead be in some dark little TSA interview room.
[/quote]

First off, I am old school. Of course you need motivation, desire and means, you also need leadership, armaments and whole a whole lot of other stuff. And that wasn,t the point I was making. I figured that was obvious. Your somewhat old school yourself Scotty, I reckon. I know my attitude 40 years ago when I was in the Marines was probably pretty homophobic. Thing is time has changed. Change is the one constant in everything. You can't fight a war with obsolete weapons and you can't fight with obsolete ideas.When I was born, African Americans were still segregated in the military. Deemed not equal to white troops. yet some of the bravest men I've known have been Black Marines, not segregated but in the same hole with rest of us. Christ, Scotty you live on the Rez, didn't those Anishinaabe teach you anything about being a warrior?
[/quote]


*Fake indignity* Are you callin' me old?
I was just picking on one of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children. (I am trying to stifle a load of Marine jokes.)
A bit of semi-literate humor based in the fact that in the past the USMC seemed to get all the worn out, outdated reject junk, then worked hard to overtain and compensate for the hand-down equipment. One look at all that hillbilly armor on some of their hardware makes me think "adapt and overcome" should be changed to "scavenge, bodge, and dodge". Before we dump money in to trying to figure out how to integrate openly gay persons... maybe we can spend that money on getting some armour on the soft-skins so they can quit hanging manhole covers over their doors.



Maang clan... we are good at arguing! fighting, not so much.


My concern with LGBT soldiers is 2 fold, and has little to do with their ability to fight. (baring any social engineering in the military such as the Dutch have had)
1)It is really not a good idea to go tossing another proverbial bomb in the troop-tent during a time when we have active combat deployments.
2)With the opfor we are currently facing, an act that will further fuel religious zealotry, and be used as a recruiting tool by the enemy is not an act of a Commander-in-Chief whom holds any regard for the safety, and value of the individual fighting man.

[b]
[/b]

[mustafabey]

Uncle Sam's Misguided Children! We actually proudly wore that title and yes, we did justified our existence by keeping our budget low by using outdated equipment to get the job done. Comm wire and chewing gum held the Marines together. I remember having the opportunity to work with some Army troops and was amazed at the level of logistic support they had. (American beer!! while we drank the local brew Tiger(piss) brewed on the banks of the Perfumed River in Hue, perfume being mostly water buffalo shit and an occasional bloated corpse) Ah thanks for lovely memories,Scotty.
If the military was running the country, their is no chance that LGBT soldiers would be serving or women either, probably. However, our military reflects our society and must adapt as our society grows. I doubt whether the presence of LGBT troops are going to seriously impact the war making policies of the military. People who are a danger in combat(like get you killed assholes) come in all shapes and sizes and from my experience anyway, didn't stay in the bush very long.
As far as I can see this administration, Bush's(41 &43) and Clinton's never really had a cohesive Afghan policy. Kind of drifted around depending on who was shaking the tree.Priorities in Afghanistan changed yearly it seems, intially based on the prospect of a Unocal pipeline from Turkmenistan to the sea in Pakistan. Good read on this is "Taliban" by Pakistani journalists Ahmed Rashid. Afghanistan will become another of our famous cut and run operations like Nam, Iraq, support for the Muhajideen in the 80's. If they killed bin Laden tomorrow, i think we'd pack up and leave, count "victory" and run. And thats a solution both of these deadlocked idiotic parties would find suitable. Our whole Middle Eastern policy is, as Uncle Sam's Misguided Children would say, a cluster fuck.

[svaj]

In all honesty, when **** hits the fan, and you are in desperate need for help, to see anyone in that uniform immediately right there to help you out is probably the only thing going through your mind at that moment. "Thank God you are here to help me..." is definitely what I was thinking.

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='svaj' timestamp='1293582290' post='492721']
In all honesty, when **** hits the fan, and you are in desperate need for help, to see anyone in that uniform immediately right there to help you out is probably the only thing going through your mind at that moment. "Thank God you are here to help me..." is definitely what I was thinking.
[/quote]

You completely missed the point, the problem with homosexuality in the military is not worrying about the sexual orientation who's coming to rescue some pathetically helpless civilian from an equally pathetic terrorist. It is one stemming from the unusual, and uncomfortable situation resulting from the close quarters of training. Who in the hell wants to go take a shower with some homosexuals over in the corner leering at them. From personal situation I can tell you, it results in some homosexuals getting punched in the face, me getting a ticket for fighting, and then getting tickets for lewd and lascivious behavior. Mine was dismissed, as an understandable fit of rage according to the judge.

While were at it, since there is no difference between homosexuals and heterosexuals, why even have separated showers at all? Just exactly why is it that we just don't have one giant shower at the gymnasium, high school PE, the military. If it's supposed to be fine for days to take a shower with people they find attractive in a sexual way, just exactly what's wrong with forcing men and women all takes a shower in the same place at the same time? I really see no difference between forcing gays on heterosexuals in a communal situation and forcing men and women into the same situation. You can't agree with segregation by by sex, on one hand, then turn around and force integration for the same exact criteria. To do so is hypocritical to the point of being sheer lunacy.

Is this what we want from the military? Well guess what is the change you got. Look at the problems it created in other countries. The wussificationof the modern military. so now that you have your gays in the military why don't you go join up, why don't you go bust your butt for four years, risk life and limb, be shot at, risk being blown apart, for the intensely wonderful some of $22,000 a year after four years.--Yep, that's what I thought--all talk and no join.

[svaj]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1293646409' post='492808']
[quote name='svaj' timestamp='1293582290' post='492721']
In all honesty, when **** hits the fan, and you are in desperate need for help, to see anyone in that uniform immediately right there to help you out is probably the only thing going through your mind at that moment. "Thank God you are here to help me..." is definitely what I was thinking.
[/quote]

You completely missed the point, the problem with homosexuality in the military is not worrying about the sexual orientation who's coming to rescue some pathetically helpless civilian from an equally pathetic terrorist. It is one stemming from the unusual, and uncomfortable situation resulting from the close quarters of training. Who in the hell wants to go take a shower with some homosexuals over in the corner leering at them. From personal situation I can tell you, it results in some homosexuals getting punched in the face, me getting a ticket for fighting, and then getting tickets for lewd and lascivious behavior. Mine was dismissed, as an understandable fit of rage according to the judge.

While were at it, since there is no difference between homosexuals and heterosexuals, why even have separated showers at all? Just exactly why is it that we just don't have one giant shower at the gymnasium, high school PE, the military. If it's supposed to be fine for days to take a shower with people they find attractive in a sexual way, just exactly what's wrong with forcing men and women all takes a shower in the same place at the same time? I really see no difference between forcing gays on heterosexuals in a communal situation and forcing men and women into the same situation. You can't agree with segregation by by sex, on one hand, then turn around and force integration for the same exact criteria. To do so is hypocritical to the point of being sheer lunacy.

Is this what we want from the military? Well guess what is the change you got. Look at the problems it created in other countries. The wussificationof the modern military. so now that you have your gays in the military why don't you go join up, why don't you go bust your butt for four years, risk life and limb, be shot at, risk being blown apart, for the intensely wonderful some of $22,000 a year after four years.--Yep, that's what I thought--all talk and no join.
[/quote]



I do not agree that the military will become "Wussified" with the integration of gays. Because they're already in. And we're still fighting our wars.

Although I highly doubt once this policy is implemented, that you will see gays frolicking around and throwing their status and relationships in your face and being completely open about it. Just think about it, when you're sitting around the shop talking with your coworkers, gossip comes out. And no one likes being talked about behind their back. So why would gays put themselves in that position?

I guess I just see things differently lol

[Chreees]

I think everyone's making too big of a damn deal about it. I talked to my brother who was in the army and he said it doesn't make a difference whether the policy is in place or not- he knew the gay people were gay when he was in the service and it wasn't a problem. I think if you have a problem with it, you're just homophobic. Gotta realize people, this is America. You can fuck who you wanna fuck.

[thatonethere]

[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1293679070' post='492853']
I think everyone's making too big of a damn deal about it. I talked to my brother who was in the army and he said it doesn't make a difference whether the policy is in place or not- he knew the gay people were gay when he was in the service and it wasn't a problem. I think if you have a problem with it, you're just homophobic. Gotta realize people, this is America. You can fuck who you wanna fuck.
[/quote]


+1

It sounds like people are insecure. So what if a gay person looks at you like "that". Straight people do it all the time. It takes 2 people to stare :one to do the looking and one for the other person to notice. All in all, INC summed it up. Edited December 30, 2010 by thatonethere

[Amn_sinclair]

personally i have no problem with gays serving openly in the military. I'm active duty Air Force and I know a few people that are active duty and are homosexual. I just see it raising an issue for a lot of the people that are homophobic there is going to have to be a lot of new policy's put in place to allow people to serve openly without being discriminated against by some people. I'm really not to sure how they are going to make this work but that's not my problem. I just ask that those that do serve openly leave it to their free time and not bring it to work.

[Defaultanon]

I cant even fathom how ridiculous the idea of no gays in the military is.