Obama Toxic?

[mustafabey]

Today Gen. James Jones resigned as national security advisor, Rahm Emanuel just left, Gates is off to the private sector soon, plus a host of others. It is being spun as a mid term reorganization and it is claimed these guys only signed for 2 years. Now the right has done a great job of keeping the Obama presidency on defense. They have convinced many people that he is not who he says he is. Obama himself seems to have forgotten alot of campaign promises and seems to be in route step with Goldman sachs and Wall st. He has distanced himself from his base. An election is looming, Republicans are fired up(but leaderless) but the Dems seem to have lost the magic that they had in the 08 campaign.
Another slant on this exodus is that Obama is redefining his presidency. Certain new players seem to be less likely to put up with the circus called Afghanistan. He needs to reconnect with his liberal base. Is this what its all about?
For me, Hillary is the big factor, if she goes, thats it, they threw him under the bus. Yet there has been talk of Hillary being the VP candidate in 2012, sending Biden to State(Joe Biden a diplomat??) It would make great strategy for 2012, whatever they do with Joe,Hillary would reenergize the campaign and get a shot of succeeding Obama in 2016. So what do you all think?

[Chreees]

I honestly think this two-party system is holding us back. Politicians are spending more time arguing instead of getting anything done. Eliminate this two-party system and we'll see some progress.

[Rani]

First of all I agree the two party system needs at the very least a major overhaul, however, I'm not certain that would help. More and more I see a single unofficial party of power and wealth brokers that use the two parties at their convenience to mouth platitudes. And nobody, absolutely nobody, keeps track of their campaign promises or recent records. Only the President gets attention for his promises - whichever President. He's the most visible so he gets the heat.

As far as Obama is concerned, I'm not certain it's about whether or not he's a "good" or "bad" president, but it's entirely possible that he's not quite the president we need at this particular time. There are an enormous number of personality traits he has that we need in a president. He doesn't jump the gun and make emotional decisions, he investigates every piece of information he can get his hands on before taking a offensive stance, he sees himself with some humility and humor, and he's willing to apologize for the mistakes and misjudgments made by his administration. I think as a managing president he might just be the best thing since sliced bread. But I'm not certain he's a good crises president. And I'm fairly certain his staff member that are leaving are tired of taking the heat. He certainly underestimated how far up shit creek we were, and I think he also dramatically underestimated the power of the brokers in control of the nation. He's a very charismatic man, and he's probably gotten a great many things his way up until now. I'm not certain he knows how to respond when his back is against the wall.

Yet despite all of that, he's gotten a huge amount of things done. Whether or not you agree with those things, is an entirely different story, but no one can argue he's making changes. And God nows this country needs change. I think we're going to have to see many years down the road whether or not he actually had a successful presidency and whether or not the change he's been a part of ends up being better or worse for the country in the long run. I mean, really, everyone hailed Reagan as the new political messiah, and only now are we discovering just how far up the river the majority of the country got sold. Reaganomics was the start of the free hand by the power and wealth brokers that nearly bankrupt not only the country but the world. Congratulations, may you rest in peach, you son of a bitch.

Funny you should mention about Hilary. I was wondering about that the other day, and I'd actually like to see it happening. There's enough bitch in that girl to whip some serious ass on Capitol Hill. Something Obama is too polite to do. Transitioning her to VP and then into the Oval Office would probably be a very good thing because she's actually pretty conservative on the financial end as far as politicians go. And she certainly knows how the game is played. Something Obama didn't have going for him and probably led to his underestimation of what he was in for. And regardless of what people say to the contrary, the color of his skin still plays a huge factor in how he's viewed. Racism may not live on our lips these days but it certainly still dwells in the American subconscious. Anyone who thinks otherwise, I can pretty much guarantee they're white.

'Rani

[mustafabey]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1286592392' post='484444']
First of all I agree the two party system needs at the very least a major overhaul, however, I'm not certain that would help. More and more I see a single unofficial party of power and wealth brokers that use the two parties at their convenience to mouth platitudes. And nobody, absolutely nobody, keeps track of their campaign promises or recent records. Only the President gets attention for his promises - whichever President. He's the most visible so he gets the heat.

As far as Obama is concerned, I'm not certain it's about whether or not he's a "good" or "bad" president, but it's entirely possible that he's not quite the president we need at this particular time. There are an enormous number of personality traits he has that we need in a president. He doesn't jump the gun and make emotional decisions, he investigates every piece of information he can get his hands on before taking a offensive stance, he sees himself with some humility and humor, and he's willing to apologize for the mistakes and misjudgments made by his administration. I think as a managing president he might just be the best thing since sliced bread. But I'm not certain he's a good crises president. And I'm fairly certain his staff member that are leaving are tired of taking the heat. He certainly underestimated how far up shit creek we were, and I think he also dramatically underestimated the power of the brokers in control of the nation. He's a very charismatic man, and he's probably gotten a great many things his way up until now. I'm not certain he knows how to respond when his back is against the wall.

Yet despite all of that, he's gotten a huge amount of things done. Whether or not you agree with those things, is an entirely different story, but no one can argue he's making changes. And God nows this country needs change. I think we're going to have to see many years down the road whether or not he actually had a successful presidency and whether or not the change he's been a part of ends up being better or worse for the country in the long run. I mean, really, everyone hailed Reagan as the new political messiah, and only now are we discovering just how far up the river the majority of the country got sold. Reaganomics was the start of the free hand by the power and wealth brokers that nearly bankrupt not only the country but the world. Congratulations, may you rest in peach, you son of a bitch.

Funny you should mention about Hilary. I was wondering about that the other day, and I'd actually like to see it happening. There's enough bitch in that girl to whip some serious ass on Capitol Hill. Something Obama is too polite to do. Transitioning her to VP and then into the Oval Office would probably be a very good thing because she's actually pretty conservative on the financial end as far as politicians go. And she certainly knows how the game is played. Something Obama didn't have going for him and probably led to his underestimation of what he was in for. And regardless of what people say to the contrary, the color of his skin still plays a huge factor in how he's viewed. Racism may not live on our lips these days but it certainly still dwells in the American subconscious. Anyone who thinks otherwise, I can pretty much guarantee they're white.

'Rani
[/quote]

I could not agree more with your assessment,Rani. Some say our system is broken, others say its hijacked. No matter what the patriotic rhetoric I hear from the parties,in many cases the government responds not to the peoples desires, but to the whims of the lobbies. Government departments each have their own agenda, often different from the President. Look at the battle between State and Defense in the Bush administration. You said:" He certainly underestimated how far up shit creek we were, and I think he also dramatically underestimated the power of the brokers in control of the nation. " and i think therein is the heart of the matter. Our government is becoming some kind of play being enacted in the halls of Congress,the Supreme court and the White House. It appears to have little to do with realities. The powers behind the throne are concerned mostly with power and money. That is a pattern that is very much evident in history. This lot seems to be greedy enough to allow the entire system to collapse in order to line their pockets. TARP was forced down the throats of Congress with threats of economic collapse and martial law. It was nothing more that the worlds biggest bank robbery. We need leaders that can stand up to this crap,if infact,it is still possible. When Obama got elected, i was swept up in the joy of the event,in the possiblity of change that he offered. he said all the right things and spelled out a program that would heal alot of the ills of America. Build the economy by growing jobs in the green energy sector, end the BS in Iraq,no lobbiests in the government , regulate the greed on Wall st. But none of that happened. All we got were empty laws, full of words, but barely touching on our problems. For example he "ended" the war in Iraq brought home all the troops except 50,000(who don't fight and only play tiddly winks) and of course the mercenaries, Blackwater types who remain.Either his campaigh was one of the greatest snow jobs in history or Obama was an idealist that found out that once on office, he really didn't have the power or maybe the cojones to do the job.
Yes, Hillary as vice president would change things, she got more balls than Obama.

[Hassouni]

[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1286590932' post='484440']
I honestly think this two-party system is holding us back. Politicians are spending more time arguing instead of getting anything done. Eliminate this two-party system and we'll see some progress.
[/quote]

BINGO!!!!!!!

Someone bake Chris a cake for getting it correct on the first response. Seriously.

I worked in the Senate one summer (unpaid intern aka SLAVE) and the whole spectacle disgusted me. It was nothing more than partisanship and pandering to the fringe on either side of the spectrum. Mind you this was in 2004, I can't imagine it's become any better.

[Hassouni]

Also, a big plus 1 for Rani, agreed on about 95% of what you said.

[Chreees]

Haha, thanks Hass... And imagine what would change if we no longer allowed companies and whatnot to "donate" money for politicians' campaigns!

[Tyler]

Alls I know is that if any "tea party" people win or Hillary wins, we're all fucked.

[mustafabey]

[quote name='Tyler' timestamp='1286632468' post='484478']
we're all fucked.


[/quote]

Reckon that sums it up

[Chreees]

Oh, we're fucked either way, I believe. I honestly believe this country has gone over the hill, and is now making it's fast descent to the bottom of the other side... I mean, it's bound to happen. Every empire falls eventually. Perhaps our time is on the horizon... er... already in our full vision.

[Hassouni]

[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1286630233' post='484474']
Haha, thanks Hass... And imagine what would change if we no longer allowed companies and whatnot to "donate" money for politicians' campaigns!
[/quote]

I can think of something straight away but I'll have to PM you for that....

[Chreees]

[quote name='Hassouni' timestamp='1286682507' post='484548']
[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1286630233' post='484474']
Haha, thanks Hass... And imagine what would change if we no longer allowed companies and whatnot to "donate" money for politicians' campaigns!
[/quote]

I can think of something straight away but I'll have to PM you for that....
[/quote]

Lol, sure, PM me...

And every time I see this thread's title, I think of Obama being in Britney Spears's music video for "Toxic." Not a pretty sight in my head, to say the least.

[Epoch]

Possibly the only way to have politicians who represent the people is to have NO party system at all. Edited October 16, 2010 by Epoch

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1286630233' post='484474']
Haha, thanks Hass... And imagine what would change if we no longer allowed companies and whatnot to "donate" money for politicians' campaigns!
[/quote]

Or unions, and non-profits.

only individual donations to a collective pool divided evenly between the candidates, for the ultimate socialist experience.

[Chreees]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1287287083' post='485282']
[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1286630233' post='484474']
Haha, thanks Hass... And imagine what would change if we no longer allowed companies and whatnot to "donate" money for politicians' campaigns!
[/quote]

Or unions, and non-profits.

only individual donations to a collective pool divided evenly between the candidates, for the ultimate socialist experience.
[/quote]

[Epoch]

Why would anyone donate to candidates if the donations are split up amongst all the runners?

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1287287299' post='485283']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1287287083' post='485282']
[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1286630233' post='484474']
Haha, thanks Hass... And imagine what would change if we no longer allowed companies and whatnot to "donate" money for politicians' campaigns!
[/quote]

Or unions, and non-profits.

only individual donations to a collective pool divided evenly between the candidates, for the ultimate socialist experience.
[/quote]


[/quote]

you missed the intended humor, or maybe not.

[Chreees]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1287326111' post='485314']
[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1287287299' post='485283']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1287287083' post='485282']
[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1286630233' post='484474']
Haha, thanks Hass... And imagine what would change if we no longer allowed companies and whatnot to "donate" money for politicians' campaigns!
[/quote]

Or unions, and non-profits.

only individual donations to a collective pool divided evenly between the candidates, for the ultimate socialist experience.
[/quote]


[/quote]

you missed the intended humor, or maybe not.
[/quote]

It'd really be pointless to discuss it further.

[Chaz1337]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1286592392' post='484444']
First of all I agree the two party system needs at the very least a major overhaul, however, I'm not certain that would help. More and more I see a single unofficial party of power and wealth brokers that use the two parties at their convenience to mouth platitudes. And nobody, absolutely nobody, keeps track of their campaign promises or recent records. Only the President gets attention for his promises - whichever President. He's the most visible so he gets the heat.

As far as Obama is concerned, I'm not certain it's about whether or not he's a "good" or "bad" president, but it's entirely possible that he's not quite the president we need at this particular time. There are an enormous number of personality traits he has that we need in a president. He doesn't jump the gun and make emotional decisions, he investigates every piece of information he can get his hands on before taking a offensive stance, he sees himself with some humility and humor, and he's willing to apologize for the mistakes and misjudgments made by his administration. I think as a managing president he might just be the best thing since sliced bread. But I'm not certain he's a good crises president. And I'm fairly certain his staff member that are leaving are tired of taking the heat. He certainly underestimated how far up shit creek we were, and I think he also dramatically underestimated the power of the brokers in control of the nation. He's a very charismatic man, and he's probably gotten a great many things his way up until now. I'm not certain he knows how to respond when his back is against the wall.

[b][u][Yet despite all of that, he's gotten a huge amount of things done.][/u][/b] Whether or not you agree with those things, is an entirely different story, but no one can argue he's making changes. And God nows this country needs change. I think we're going to have to see many years down the road whether or not he actually had a successful presidency and whether or not the change he's been a part of ends up being better or worse for the country in the long run. I mean, really, everyone hailed Reagan as the new political messiah, and only now are we discovering just how far up the river the majority of the country got sold. Reaganomics was the start of the free hand by the power and wealth brokers that nearly bankrupt not only the country but the world. Congratulations, may you rest in peach, you son of a bitch.

Funny you should mention about Hilary. I was wondering about that the other day, and I'd actually like to see it happening. There's enough bitch in that girl to whip some serious ass on Capitol Hill. Something Obama is too polite to do. Transitioning her to VP and then into the Oval Office would probably be a very good thing because she's actually pretty conservative on the financial end as far as politicians go. And she certainly knows how the game is played. Something Obama didn't have going for him and probably led to his underestimation of what he was in for. And regardless of what people say to the contrary, the color of his skin still plays a huge factor in how he's viewed. Racism may not live on our lips these days but it certainly still dwells in the American subconscious. Anyone who thinks otherwise, I can pretty much guarantee they're white.

'Rani
[/quote]

Such as...? Oh yeah he got a dog and won the Nobel Peace Prize!!!

Also its in bad taste to criticize one of the greatest presidents the United States has ever had. God bless Reagan!

[mustafabey]

Chaz1337 said:"Also its in bad taste to criticize one of the greatest presidents the United States has ever had. God bless Reagan!"
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In my opinion what Reagan deserves is an Oscar for Best Actor portraying a President. Hand selected to appeal to the TV and movie numbed American public, he read his lines and did his stuff. Others did the thinking. Geo.W.Bush was a cat of the same stripe, a tool of his handlers. It seems Mr.Obama comes from the same cookie mold. Someone once said that the American people really haven't really elected s president since JFK. one thing about Reagan is that you identify with him, his fatherly tone of voice soothed you while his puppeteers were stealing the economy. That our economy is falling apart is in no small part due to things that went on during his watch. And Reagan didn't defeat Communism, it defeated itself,much like capitalism is doing now.

[Rani]

[quote name='Chaz1337' timestamp='1287730067' post='485889']
[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1286592392' post='484444']
First of all I agree the two party system needs at the very least a major overhaul, however, I'm not certain that would help. More and more I see a single unofficial party of power and wealth brokers that use the two parties at their convenience to mouth platitudes. And nobody, absolutely nobody, keeps track of their campaign promises or recent records. Only the President gets attention for his promises - whichever President. He's the most visible so he gets the heat.

As far as Obama is concerned, I'm not certain it's about whether or not he's a "good" or "bad" president, but it's entirely possible that he's not quite the president we need at this particular time. There are an enormous number of personality traits he has that we need in a president. He doesn't jump the gun and make emotional decisions, he investigates every piece of information he can get his hands on before taking a offensive stance, he sees himself with some humility and humor, and he's willing to apologize for the mistakes and misjudgments made by his administration. I think as a managing president he might just be the best thing since sliced bread. But I'm not certain he's a good crises president. And I'm fairly certain his staff member that are leaving are tired of taking the heat. He certainly underestimated how far up shit creek we were, and I think he also dramatically underestimated the power of the brokers in control of the nation. He's a very charismatic man, and he's probably gotten a great many things his way up until now. I'm not certain he knows how to respond when his back is against the wall.

[b][u][Yet despite all of that, he's gotten a huge amount of things done.][/u][/b] Whether or not you agree with those things, is an entirely different story, but no one can argue he's making changes. And God nows this country needs change. I think we're going to have to see many years down the road whether or not he actually had a successful presidency and whether or not the change he's been a part of ends up being better or worse for the country in the long run. I mean, really, everyone hailed Reagan as the new political messiah, and only now are we discovering just how far up the river the majority of the country got sold. Reaganomics was the start of the free hand by the power and wealth brokers that nearly bankrupt not only the country but the world. Congratulations, may you rest in peach, you son of a bitch.

Funny you should mention about Hilary. I was wondering about that the other day, and I'd actually like to see it happening. There's enough bitch in that girl to whip some serious ass on Capitol Hill. Something Obama is too polite to do. Transitioning her to VP and then into the Oval Office would probably be a very good thing because she's actually pretty conservative on the financial end as far as politicians go. And she certainly knows how the game is played. Something Obama didn't have going for him and probably led to his underestimation of what he was in for. And regardless of what people say to the contrary, the color of his skin still plays a huge factor in how he's viewed. Racism may not live on our lips these days but it certainly still dwells in the American subconscious. Anyone who thinks otherwise, I can pretty much guarantee they're white.

'Rani
[/quote]

Such as...? Oh yeah he got a dog and won the Nobel Peace Prize!!!

Also its in bad taste to criticize one of the greatest presidents the United States has ever had. God bless Reagan!
[/quote]



Well, I could put in all the links, and give you all the figures, but someone has already done a substantial portion of it for me.

[url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/the-republican-swindle-ab_b_770692.html?utm_source=DailyBrief&utm_campaign=102110&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BlogEntry&utm_term=Daily+Brief"]http://www.huffingto...erm=Daily+Brief[/url]

I was a little doubtful when I read the article, actually, despite being someone who's rather supportive of President Obama. So I did some web cruising among various historical, financial and government websites, and turns out, yeah, he's actually getting quite a bit done, and most of what's being said are outright lies. The deficit has actually been lowered for instance. Now why would the GOP lie about that, hummm? Uh, yeah.....

As far as Reagan is concerned........ Come on.... Our economic free-fall couldn't have happened without Reaganomics. Can you say Alzheimer's? Everything else has trickled down from that point onward as just about every financial expert agrees. I repeat myself: "Thank you very much, Mr. Reagan, may you rest in peace, you son of a bitch."

'Rani

[TheScotsman]

Bahhahahah... the huffington post... the one that is funded by progressive elitist soros, right?

You call that a reliable source for something? That's feckin' precious.


What's next? We have Charles Manson write a DIY manual on family therapy?
Oh, I got it, we will have obama's cabinet all co-author a book on how to use turbo tax, and the obligation to pay your damn taxes!


Huffington-puffington as a reliable source. Crap, make me laugh so hard I almost threw my tea all over my cat.

Thanks, I needed a good laugh tonight.

[Rani]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1287981939' post='486138']
Bahhahahah... the huffington post... the one that is funded by progressive elitist soros, right?

You call that a reliable source for something? That's feckin' precious.


What's next? We have Charles Manson write a DIY manual on family therapy?
Oh, I got it, we will have obama's cabinet all co-author a book on how to use turbo tax, and the obligation to pay your damn taxes!


Huffington-puffington as a reliable source. Crap, make me laugh so hard I almost threw my tea all over my cat.

Thanks, I needed a good laugh tonight.
[/quote]

Scotsman, Scotsman, Scotsman..... You are just so adorably predictable. Yeah, Huffington is very "progressive" no doubt, but facts don't change. The deficit has actually been lowered. The largest actual tax break (supposedly in history though I can't personally verify that) to the middle class is Obama's doing. And remember I said, I was pretty doubtful myself until I did some cruising around the government sites, but things really are getting better. (Ooops! I'm sorry, I forgot you don't read entire posts, just the parts you want to take out of context and argue with.) Not that the economy is remotely what I would consider recovered by any means, but houses are now selling in a matter of weeks, not sitting vacant for years. We currently have 1 house up for auction in my city, this time last year we had too many to count. Companies are just starting to hire again, though they're still taking advantage trying to keep getting PhD's for the price of a Bachelor's, but then we know most CEO's are going to try and keep overhead as low as possible to keep their profits up as high as they can for as long as they can. Nature of the beast. Obama could be the greatest thing since sliced bread, do everything you personally believe he should do and you'd still hate him, just because he ran under the auspices of the Democratic party. Were he a Republican you'd be singing a different tune and we all, especially you, know it.

'Rani

[Venger]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1287984504' post='486142']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1287981939' post='486138']
Bahhahahah... the huffington post... the one that is funded by progressive elitist soros, right?

You call that a reliable source for something? That's feckin' precious.


What's next? We have Charles Manson write a DIY manual on family therapy?
Oh, I got it, we will have obama's cabinet all co-author a book on how to use turbo tax, and the obligation to pay your damn taxes!


Huffington-puffington as a reliable source. Crap, make me laugh so hard I almost threw my tea all over my cat.

Thanks, I needed a good laugh tonight.
[/quote]

Scotsman, Scotsman, Scotsman..... You are just so adorably predictable. Yeah, Huffington is very "progressive" no doubt, but facts don't change. The deficit has actually been lowered. The largest actual tax break (supposedly in history though I can't personally verify that) to the middle class is Obama's doing. And remember I said, I was pretty doubtful myself until I did some cruising around the government sites, but things really are getting better. (Ooops! I'm sorry, I forgot you don't read entire posts, just the parts you want to take out of context and argue with.) Not that the economy is remotely what I would consider recovered by any means, but houses are now selling in a matter of weeks, not sitting vacant for years. We currently have 1 house up for auction in my city, this time last year we had too many to count. Companies are just starting to hire again, though they're still taking advantage trying to keep getting PhD's for the price of a Bachelor's, but then we know most CEO's are going to try and keep overhead as low as possible to keep their profits up as high as they can for as long as they can. Nature of the beast. Obama could be the greatest thing since sliced bread, do everything you personally believe he should do and you'd still hate him, just because he ran under the auspices of the Democratic party. Were he a Republican you'd be singing a different tune and we all, especially you, know it.

'Rani
[/quote]

lies lies lies.
its all magicmath. left does it. right does it. just a way to steal from you legally.
Ray

[Rani]

[quote name='Venger' timestamp='1288007936' post='486166']
[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1287984504' post='486142']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1287981939' post='486138']
Bahhahahah... the huffington post... the one that is funded by progressive elitist soros, right?

You call that a reliable source for something? That's feckin' precious.


What's next? We have Charles Manson write a DIY manual on family therapy?
Oh, I got it, we will have obama's cabinet all co-author a book on how to use turbo tax, and the obligation to pay your damn taxes!


Huffington-puffington as a reliable source. Crap, make me laugh so hard I almost threw my tea all over my cat.

Thanks, I needed a good laugh tonight.
[/quote]

Scotsman, Scotsman, Scotsman..... You are just so adorably predictable. Yeah, Huffington is very "progressive" no doubt, but facts don't change. The deficit has actually been lowered. The largest actual tax break (supposedly in history though I can't personally verify that) to the middle class is Obama's doing. And remember I said, I was pretty doubtful myself until I did some cruising around the government sites, but things really are getting better. (Ooops! I'm sorry, I forgot you don't read entire posts, just the parts you want to take out of context and argue with.) Not that the economy is remotely what I would consider recovered by any means, but houses are now selling in a matter of weeks, not sitting vacant for years. We currently have 1 house up for auction in my city, this time last year we had too many to count. Companies are just starting to hire again, though they're still taking advantage trying to keep getting PhD's for the price of a Bachelor's, but then we know most CEO's are going to try and keep overhead as low as possible to keep their profits up as high as they can for as long as they can. Nature of the beast. Obama could be the greatest thing since sliced bread, do everything you personally believe he should do and you'd still hate him, just because he ran under the auspices of the Democratic party. Were he a Republican you'd be singing a different tune and we all, especially you, know it.

'Rani
[/quote]

lies lies lies.
its all magicmath. left does it. right does it. just a way to steal from you legally.
Ray
[/quote]

Cynicism weighs heavy on the human heart and deprives us of both truth and hope. Glass half empty is just too draining to be indulged in. And the sad thing is, the only person it drains is us. The rest of the world goes merrily on it's way.

'Rani