Differences In Japanese Charcoals

[antouwan]

alright, so i've stopped using my coconut coals recently and have began using japanese coals again. I love them. to me it seems like the vapor has a different texture and the flavors are different (more vibrant) idk, maybe it's just me - but i'm loving it.

i'm using abu hitams (which were recommended by eric and are available locally - or at least they were). i remember golden canary's but slightly prefer abu hitams. i know that japanese 'coals' are actually coke, not coal per se. i was wondering the difference between the different jap coals. are all jap coals coke? is it the quality of materials used that justifies the price difference? 'easy-lite' japs are dirt cheap and made in china - canary's are $10 more/box and made in japan. is it the difference in the cost of labor that justifies the price difference? i know that the 'high-quality' japs use legit zinc (and other metal) coating on the outside of their coke to speed up light time, while the aforementioned easy-lites and other lower quality japs only have a silver lining on the outside which is purely aesthetic and not at all functional.

someone have answers? maybe links to old threads on the subject?

thanks

[Arcane]

hmmm...i'd like to know the actual differences...

as far as performance...the japs lite easier than the fumaris, chinese and the red box japs. not sure about the hitams, i heard they're denser than the GC's but never got to try them to compare. also, the length of "lighting" flavor of the GCs don't last as long as the chinese and red box. however, it does last longer than the fumaris....the downside to the fumari japs is that the "lighting" flavor is considerably worse than the GC's.

also, the red box japs produces a grayish tan ash...similar to exotica easy lites. i don't they're made of coke like the GCs...

[Barnaby]

I know weight is a big factor. The GC and the abu hitams are pretty much the same formula, but I know Eric has said he uses which ever is heavier. More dense, longer burn.

[ih303]

I've never used the Fumari or Abu Hitam Japanese coals, only GC's and a couple different brands of Chinese knockoffs so my experience is limited. However, I did a little research and came to a few conclusions. Keep in mind, these are purely speculation based off what I've read so don't hold me to any of it.

Coke is to coal what charcoal is to wood - a purified form. The purification in both cases involves heating the original material in a furnace devoid of oxygen to extremely high temperatures to burn off the volatile compounds (stuff that stinks and makes flames) leaving a much purer form of carbon. This new form burns hotter and cleaner than in its original form which makes it desirable for many applications.

As far as price is concerned, Coke is more expensive than coal due to the additional processing and amount of coal required to make a lesser amount of coke. This would explain why Japanese coal (coke) costs more. What doesn't make sense is why wood and coconut coals are cheaper considering wood is generally more expensive than coal. I can understand coals made from coconut shells being cheaper as they are a renewable biomass that's a generated waste product from another form of industry. But wood?

The only way I can make sense of it all is when I consider the economic factors involved such as processing costs, import costs, government regulation, market expectation/demand, etc. Who knows.

I like GC's. When I need a coal that will light with a lighter, they're what I use. But the price is pretty ridiculous for what you get. Besides the price, my biggest gripes are 1) They don't last that long (maybe if they were bigger...), and 2) They make a terrible mess with that silver coating flaking off everywhere.

I'd love to learn more about Japanese coals. Does anyone know anything else? Who imports them in the states?

[nun]

Are you sure abu hitam is japanese? The name itself (abu hitam) is indonesian means "black ash"

[joytron]

[quote name='ih303' timestamp='1287764785' post='485938']
I've never used the Fumari or Abu Hitam Japanese coals, only GC's and a couple different brands of Chinese knockoffs so my experience is limited. However, I did a little research and came to a few conclusions. Keep in mind, these are purely speculation based off what I've read so don't hold me to any of it.

Coke is to coal what charcoal is to wood - a purified form. The purification in both cases involves heating the original material in a furnace devoid of oxygen to extremely high temperatures to burn off the volatile compounds (stuff that stinks and makes flames) leaving a much purer form of carbon. This new form burns hotter and cleaner than in its original form which makes it desirable for many applications.

As far as price is concerned, Coke is more expensive than coal due to the additional processing and amount of coal required to make a lesser amount of coke. This would explain why Japanese coal (coke) costs more. What doesn't make sense is why wood and coconut coals are cheaper considering wood is generally more expensive than coal. I can understand coals made from coconut shells being cheaper as they are a renewable biomass that's a generated waste product from another form of industry. But wood?

The only way I can make sense of it all is when I consider the economic factors involved such as processing costs, import costs, government regulation, market expectation/demand, etc. Who knows.

I like GC's. When I need a coal that will light with a lighter, they're what I use. But the price is pretty ridiculous for what you get. Besides the price, my biggest gripes are 1) They don't last that long (maybe if they were bigger...), and 2) They make a terrible mess with that silver coating flaking off everywhere.

I'd love to learn more about Japanese coals. Does anyone know anything else? Who imports them in the states?
[/quote]

By coal do you mean cola?

[Hassouni]

the name is really Abu Haitham, which is an Arabic name

[ih303]

[quote name='joytron' timestamp='1292821959' post='491823']
By coal do you mean cola?
[/quote]

Hmm... could be, could be.

So... Anyone learn anything new about Japanese coals lately? This is one of those topics that there really isn't much info about on the interwob. I really wish I knew more.

[nun]

[quote name='Hassouni' timestamp='1292847066' post='491850']
the name is really Abu Haitham, which is an Arabic name
[/quote]

Thanks for the better "spelling", it's all clear now.

[antouwan]

[quote name='ih303' timestamp='1287764785' post='485938']
I've never used the Fumari or Abu Hitam Japanese coals, only GC's and a couple different brands of Chinese knockoffs so my experience is limited. However, I did a little research and came to a few conclusions. Keep in mind, these are purely speculation based off what I've read so don't hold me to any of it.

Coke is to coal what charcoal is to wood - a purified form. The purification in both cases involves heating the original material in a furnace devoid of oxygen to extremely high temperatures to burn off the volatile compounds (stuff that stinks and makes flames) leaving a much purer form of carbon. This new form burns hotter and cleaner than in its original form which makes it desirable for many applications.

As far as price is concerned, Coke is more expensive than coal due to the additional processing and amount of coal required to make a lesser amount of coke. This would explain why Japanese coal (coke) costs more. [b]What doesn't make sense is why wood and coconut coals are cheaper considering wood is generally more expensive than coal.[/b] [b]I can understand coals made from coconut shells being cheaper as they are a renewable biomass that's a generated waste product from another form of industry. But wood?[/b]

The only way I can make sense of it all is when I consider the economic factors involved such as processing costs, import costs, government regulation, market expectation/demand, etc. Who knows.

I like GC's. When I need a coal that will light with a lighter, they're what I use. But the price is pretty ridiculous for what you get. Besides the price, my biggest gripes are 1) They don't last that long (maybe if they were bigger...), and 2) They make a terrible mess with that silver coating flaking off everywhere.

I'd love to learn more about Japanese coals. Does anyone know anything else? Who imports them in the states?
[/quote]

#1 they're both renewable resources. true story.

#2 the crazy coconut coal prices? the importers are making boatloads of profit - trust me. boatloads. the manufacturers aren't making most of the money, the stateside retailers are. coconut coals are so cheap in indonesia that they're used for grilling food and commercial applications. the whole coconut hookah charcoal application is less than 10 years old.

[Hassouni]

Yep, Cocobricos, which are sold in Europe and are made in the same factory as Coconara and therefore IDENTICAL (only better because they're bigger), cost about £3 per kilo here....compared to $14 for CCN in the states?

[ih303]

How come we have to get everything from someplace far, far away? I know there's not a lot of coconut trees in the south, but we've still got Puerto Rico and Hawaii. And if they've got coconuts, more than likely they have coconut shells. Hmm... this may require a bit more investigation.

[Stuie]

[quote] Yeah, there are three weights of Japanese coals. The highest quality is the 18.8-19.0g bars, then the 16.5-17.0g bars, then the 15.3-15.6g bars. Abu Hitham or Canary, it makes no difference. Same coals, more or less. I like to lean on the 18.8g/bar boxes as much as possible. Abu Hithams currently are the 15g bars, thats why I don't like them right now. If they come back and the Canaries are 15g and the Abu Hithams are 18g, I'll switch recommendations. They are indistinguishable, except by weight. The weight is everything. Given all I can get right now are the 15g bars, I'm going with them. Hopefully the Canaries will be heavy again. If they are light, I'll go with the Abu Hithams since they are slightly cheaper wholesale. The last shipment of Canaries never got down to the 15g bars..they were about 1/3 18g bars and 2/3 16g bars. Like I said in other threads, they don't vary per box only by case which leads me to believe its intentional.

Chinese coals tend to be heavier...but definitely lower quality. These rules only apply to the high grade Japanese coals.

[/quote]

Eric posted this a while back and I saved it in a text file because it was so revealing. So here it is again.

[ukhookah]

Hassouni - are you sure coco bricos are the same as CN? As I've used and I'm pretty sure the old CN burnt hotter.

[Barnaby]

[quote name='Stuie' timestamp='1292948137' post='491960']
[quote] Yeah, there are three weights of Japanese coals. The highest quality is the 18.8-19.0g bars, then the 16.5-17.0g bars, then the 15.3-15.6g bars. Abu Hitham or Canary, it makes no difference. Same coals, more or less. I like to lean on the 18.8g/bar boxes as much as possible. Abu Hithams currently are the 15g bars, thats why I don't like them right now. If they come back and the Canaries are 15g and the Abu Hithams are 18g, I'll switch recommendations. They are indistinguishable, except by weight. The weight is everything. Given all I can get right now are the 15g bars, I'm going with them. Hopefully the Canaries will be heavy again. If they are light, I'll go with the Abu Hithams since they are slightly cheaper wholesale. The last shipment of Canaries never got down to the 15g bars..they were about 1/3 18g bars and 2/3 16g bars. Like I said in other threads, they don't vary per box only by case which leads me to believe its intentional.

Chinese coals tend to be heavier...but definitely lower quality. These rules only apply to the high grade Japanese coals.

[/quote]

Eric posted this a while back and I saved it in a text file because it was so revealing. So here it is again.
[/quote]


Exactly what I was referring to!!

[antouwan]

[quote name='ukhookah' timestamp='1293064646' post='492121']
Hassouni - are you sure coco bricos are the same as CN? As I've used and I'm pretty sure the old CN burnt hotter.
[/quote]

they're not the same. ccn owns the majority share of the production facility where ccn's are produced.

on the other hand, i can definitely tell you that the difference between ccn's and coco brico/tom cococha is NOT worth an extra $11USD/kilo.

[noodle]

I imagine that the reason why wood and coconut charcoal is cheap is because they are byproducts. Wood charcoal, unless it's lump, is made from sawdust. Empty coconut shells aren't good for much else besides maybe abrasives, animal litter, and kitchy nicknacks. Coke is deliberately manufactured. Most of it is used to refine and recycle iron and steel.