Hose Project

[archelios]

PVC piping is extrememly toxic and can be fatal to smoke out of

[dizzbizz]

[quote name='archelios' timestamp='1322773194' post='531282']
PVC piping is extrememly toxic and can be fatal to smoke out of
[/quote]
This is true if you're heating the pvc but since he's using it for his hose handle it wont be getting hot at all.

[vendetta_revived]

Damn, the discussion on pvc got lost in the space time continuum. I am about to order some fancyhoses. Aren't they made from pvc pipes?

[Fumo1]

[quote name='vendetta_revived' timestamp='1322859211' post='531384']
Damn, the discussion on pvc got lost in the space time continuum. I am about to order some fancyhoses. Aren't they made from pvc pipes?
[/quote]

Hoses that are meant for human consumption are expensive due to the manufacturing process involved in keeping the harmful byproducts from leaching into the medium that is passing through it. This is because of the precious metals used in the curing of the plastic to keep the bad things from leaching from the tubing. Normally platinum is used for this. In a garden hose or for most non food applications who really cares if PCB's are being leached out. Unless a hose is food/pharma grade or better you have undesirable chemicals and taste that are present. Most manufacturers are interested in meeting a price point vs. delivering a safe product. Cost is first priority and materials are second priority in the race for you money. You can by Chinese hosing for .10 a foot. Food grade tubing is usually $5 - $8+ per foot. $5 x 5 feet is $25 for just the tubing. That's of course if you buy in bulk.

My 2 cents

[vendetta_revived]

Thanks for the detailed response, but most washable hoses are available for $25 or less. What do they use for handles and the hosing material?

[Fumo1]

From what I can tell most hoses are just gereral off the shelf pvc tubing made of various types of plastic from which there are many derivitives. Based on the observable price points this is all they could be. If a manufacturer was making their hoses out of the good stuff they would want their customers to know this fact for many reasons and wouldn't want to leave this detail out. Also for legal reasons food grade hosing and above comes with a material certificate as to it's method of manufacturer and product specifications.

Depending on the type of hose and how it's constructed I generally see wood, plastic and metal being used for the mouth piece and general body construction. Usually these components are put together with glue or some other binding material. The plastic used is essentially just molded pvc plastic and would have the same properties as the pvc hosing depending on it's fomulation. Wood for the most part is a mostly inert material and probably the best material besides using something like a high grade stainless steel or borosilicate glass for the mouthpiece.

I think if you are a casual smoker, using pvc, and you can stand the taste of the tubing or the mouthpiece it's not ging to kill you. However is an environmental cumulative effect of using these item along with other environmental material contaminates which may have a health impact over time. I've sucked in wood chips when inhaling with inexpensive wooden hoses and that was my last time I used a generic cheap hookah. Coated or plated metal is commonly used in hookahs and depending on the process of the plating and the properties of the submetal material used, this is also most certainly a source of taste and material contamination.

The vast majority of the products on the market are made with common raw materials that are inexpensive, easy to mold and can be assembled quickly. These are all attributes that keeps the cost to the consumer low. I don't think there is any consideration with respect to taste and health especially in the low price point hookahs. I'm not knocking them is just a fact of life.

From what I can distill this down to is that you have basically 2 things to consider in a hookah and they go hand in hand. They are the health aspect of the hookah and the residual taste given off by the hookah itself. If you can't wash your hose and it's not a food grade hose or above you will always have the taste and contaminates from previous sessions that will change the taste of your current smoke. If the hookah is not easily washable you will also have the same contaminates that influence your smoke. That's just the way it is.

[Rani]

Sorry Fumo, but no, no, and once again no. People tend to think some form of PVC (polyvinyl chloride) when they think of plastic. And the truth is it isn't much used beyond plumbing. There are a whole hell of a lot of plastic that are out there than are not PVC based. Here's just a few examples of the various types of plastics below. Note that most food grade plastic, or consumable plastic, is a polyethylene based plastic..


[b] Types of Plastics[/b]

[color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif][size=3]Plastics can be divided into two major categories:[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif][size=3]1. [b]Thermoset or thermosetting plastics.[/b] Once cooled and hardened, these plastics retain their shapes and cannot return to their original form. They are hard and durable. Thermosets can be used for[url="http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automobile.htm"]auto[/url] parts, [url="http://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/flight/modern/airplane.htm"]aircraft[/url] parts and [url="http://auto.howstuffworks.com/tire.htm"]tires[/url]. Examples include polyurethanes, polyesters, epoxy resins and phenolic resins.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif][size=3]2. [b]Thermoplastics.[/b] Less rigid than thermosets, thermoplastics can soften upon heating and return to their original form. They are easily molded and extruded into films, fibers and packaging. Examples include polyethylene (PE), polypropylene (MF) and polyvinyl chloride (PVC).[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif][size=3]Let's look at some common plastics.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif][size=3][b]Polyethylene terephthalate (PET or PETE):[/b] John Rex Whinfield invented a new polymer in 1941 when he condensed ethylene glycol with terephthalic acid. The condensate was polyethylene terephthalate (PET or PETE). PET is a thermoplastic that can be drawn into fibers (like Dacron) and films (like Mylar). It's the main plastic in ziplock food storage bags.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif][size=3][b]Polystyrene (Styrofoam):[/b] Polystyrene is formed by styrene molecules. The double bond between the CH2 and CH parts of the molecule rearranges to form a bond with adjacent styrene molecules, thereby producing polystyrene. It can form a hard impact-resistant plastic for furniture, cabinets (for [url="http://computer.howstuffworks.com/monitor.htm"]computer monitors[/url] and[url="http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/tv.htm"]TV[/url]s), glasses and utensils. When polystyrene is heated and air blown through the mixture, it forms[b]Styrofoam[/b]. Styrofoam is lightweight, moldable and an excellent insulator.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif][size=3][b]Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC):[/b] PVC is a thermoplastic that is formed when vinyl chloride (CH2=CH-Cl) polymerizes. When made, it's brittle, so manufacturers add a plasticizer liquid to make it soft and moldable. PVC is commonly used for pipes and plumbing because it's durable, can't be corroded and is cheaper than metal pipes. Over long periods of time, however, the plasticizer may leach out of it, rendering it brittle and breakable.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif][size=3][b]Polytetrafluoroethylene (Teflon):[/b] Teflon was made in 1938 by DuPont. It's created by polymerization of tetrafluoroethylene molecules (CF2=CF2). The polymer is stable, heat-resistant, strong, resistant to many chemicals and has a nearly frictionless surface. Teflon is used in plumbing tape, cookware, tubing, waterproof coatings, films and bearings.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif][size=3][b]Polyvinylidine Chloride (Saran):[/b] Dow makes Saran resins, which are synthesized by polymerization of vinylidine chloride molecules (CH2=CCl2). The polymer can be drawn into films and wraps that are impermeable to food odors. Saran wrap is a popular plastic for packaging foods.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif][size=3][b]Polyethylene, LDPE and HDPE:[/b] The most common polymer in plastics is polyethylene, which is made from ethylene monomers (CH2=CH2). The first polyethylene was made in 1934. Today, we call it low-density polyethylene (LDPE) because it will float in a mixture of [url="http://science.howstuffworks.com/alcohol.htm"]alcohol[/url] and [url="http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geophysics/h2o.htm"]water[/url]. In LDPE, the polymer strands are entangled and loosely organized, so it's soft and flexible. It was first used to insulate electrical wires, but today it's used in films, wraps, bottles, disposable gloves and garbage bags.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif][size=3]In the 1950s, Karl Ziegler polymerized ethylene in the presence of various metals. The resulting polyethylene polymer was composed of mostly linear polymers. This linear form produced tighter, denser, more organized structures and is now called high-density polyethylene (HDPE). HDPE is a harder plastic with a higher melting point than LDPE, and it sinks in an alcohol-water mixture. HDPE was first introduced in the hula hoop, but today it's mostly used in containers.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif][size=3][b]Polypropylene (MF):[/b] In 1953, Karl Ziegler and Giulio Natta, working independently, prepared polypropylene from propylene monomers (CH2=CHCH3) and received the [url="http://science.howstuffworks.com/dictionary/awards-organizations/question403.htm"]Nobel Prize[/url] in Chemistry in 1963. The various forms of polypropylene have different melting points and hardnesses. Polypropylene is used in car trim,[url="http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/battery.htm"]battery[/url] cases, bottles, tubes, filaments and bags.[/size][/font][/color]


[color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif][size=3]PVC is NOT rated for consumption. Because, see above, over time it leaches out it's chemicals into whatever it's in contact with.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif][size=3]'Rani[/size][/font][/color]

[Fumo1]

Hi Rani,

You are right. The specific question was PVC. I was using PVC as a surrogate for the alpha bit soup of different plastic concoctions. Most of the plastics listed above are not made for tubing and definatly not made to smoking or eat from. There are probably even more types than the list you posted here and with hundreds of variations properties and purposes. In my last rant I got lazy and didn't want to write a research paper. Unless a manufacturer stated what type hose they were using there would really be no way to know what the plastic was.

Go ahead and shoot me.

[Rani]

[quote name='Fumo1' timestamp='1323136963' post='531804']
Hi Rani,

You are right. The specific question was PVC. I was using PVC as a surrogate for the alpha bit soup of different plastic concoctions. Most of the plastics listed above are not made for tubing and definatly not made to smoking or eat from. There are probably even more types than the list you posted here and with hundreds of variations properties and purposes. In my last rant I got lazy and didn't want to write a research paper. Unless a manufacturer stated what type hose they were using there would really be no way to know what the plastic was.

Go ahead and shoot me.
[/quote]

Nah, just didn't want anyone who doesn't know anything about the material to be confused, so no shooting necessary..... Besides we let Mush do all the trigger pulling around here., lol.....

'Rani

[vendetta_revived]

Very informative guys! Thanks! But I am afraid that my original question is still pretty much unanswered. Would anyone happen to know if fancyhoses are made out of pvc?

[Rani]

[quote name='vendetta_revived' timestamp='1323196293' post='531869']
Very informative guys! Thanks! But I am afraid that my original question is still pretty much unanswered. Would anyone happen to know if fancyhoses are made out of pvc?
[/quote]

I own 4 of them, and although I can't exactly quote the materials, I can tell you from the feel (since I handle PVC and plastic piping [u]a lot[/u]) that they are NOT PVC. PVC is stiffer, much more brittle and is opaque. I suspect they're a polypropylene variety. Have you checked any of the website descriptions on them?

'Rani

[Rani]

I just emailed Fancy Hose and requested confirmation on the materials. When I know, you'll know.

'Rani

[Fumo1]

good point Rani. Thanks for keeping me straight. I don't want to provide any misinformation. :-)

[Teganv]

Im not going to get into the PVC discussion because I know nothing about PVC, but like Rani, did I was going to suggest emailing Fancy Hose, and maybe other hose companies to find out what information you can. I was thinking you might be able to find the right sized phunnel that you can cut the bottom half off of, in order to make the hose port tip. Just an idea.

[atalanta]

For the tubing, I would go with beer line - it's food grade and about $1 per foot. Even less if you were to buy it by the spool. And it's going to be durable to be able to handle the line cleaner (which is pretty strong stuff since it has to break down the organic gunk that can build up).

Handle wouldn't matter, IMO, if you take the tubing THROUGH the handle. You can then use whatever you want. Ooh, you can use polymer clay and sculpt some really cool handles.

[A13lackFish]

This shouldn't be too difficult, we have made a couple hoses using standard tubing and some homemade mouth pieces. Best of luck in the creation though!