I'M Getting Really Tired

[TheyCallMeDave]

[b][i]As posted on our University's daily column for events, updates and information:


[/i][/b]
[b] Health Hazards of Hookah--Mythbusters Style[/b]
[left] [/left]Myth: Smoking hookah is healthier than smoking cigarettes

BUSTED! The coal used to heat the tobacco increases the health risks by producing a high level of carbon monoxide. Tobacco in hookah still contains the same cancer causing chemicals as those in cigarettes!

Myth: The water filters the smoke making it cleaner

BUSTED! The water doesn't filter out the toxins! There are still high levels of carbon monoxide and cancer causing chemicals.

The simple fact is that smoking hookah doesn't decrease the health risks associated with smoking cigarettes--you are still smoking tobacco. The same dangers and threats that are associated with smoking cigarettes apply to smoking hookah.

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[b][i]My Response[/i][/b]

Hookah Health Risks

Name: David Frank

Ms. Newton,

My name is David Frank, and have just finished reading your artical and felt the need to respond.

First off, I would like to admire the fact that you are taking the time to bring things you find important in nature to attention, and take true initiative. Secondly, I would also like to state that as a hookah smoker, I know that NO smoking is good for you. I\'m certainly not doing this for my cardio.

However, there are some aspects of hookah I feel as if you are leaving out. Here are some points I would like to bring to your attention, and I would highly appreciate a response.

1. Hookah tabacco has no altered process or additives, such as ciragettes do. It is a natural substance, containing unaltered tobacco leaves (althoguh in some conditions dyed red) and either a honey or vegetable glycerin base. Compared to cigarettes that have over 599 chemicals and carcinogens, the hookahh tobacco and a cigarette only share ONE chemical, nicotine. Let me also clarify that nicotine does not cause any form of cancer, or produce any forms of tar.

(If you feel that hookah tobacco DOES hold more than nicotine and other natural preserves or compounds than what I have stated, I would hope you could provide a valid list of all the chemicals and carcinogens found in hookah tobacco, compared to cigarettes.)

2. Tar (the leading cause of lung cancer) is produced in the body when BURNING and smoking a tobacco product at temperatures of 800 degrees F or more. Hookah tobacco and it\'s juices are baked by the coals and separated by a piece of aluminum foil at temperatures of 300 (when the coals are not being heated by sucking on the hose) to 345 (when the hose is being sucked on) degrees. Photos from true studies can easily show the difference between true COMBUSTION of a tobacco product, and one that is baked as hookah tobacco is (whcih I will provide at the end of my letter)

3. Let me also state, that nearly all hookah tobacco is packaged in natural honeys, or vegetable glycerin. This being said, I would like to explain that when the coal is placed on the bowl, it heats up these juices, dissolving the juices into a sort of vapor, carrying traces of nicotine with them for the tobacco experience. After a hookah session, you will find that the tobacco STILL RESIDES within the bowl, sometimes still moist, whereas a cigarette or cigar, your only evidence of the ciragette once had is in the ashtray, and in your lungs.

4. Let me state that as an educated hookah smoker, I understand that the hookah water doesn\'t purify the smoke. By no means do I think that. Hookah water is used to cool the smoke, and let the session be more enjoyable. This of course brings up the arguement that hookah becomes even more dangerous, letting the smoker have even more of an ability to smoke and become susceptible to lung cancer. However, as you will see in my points above, this rebuttle becomes obsolete.

This is a link I found to be very useful in the comparison of hookah to cigarettes. The site is typed in Bulgarian, however I am in close contact with the author and can provide contact information for you if you need to contact him with questions. I hope you take the time to view all the pictures and videos, as they drastically show the dangers of cigarettes compared to hookah smoking.

[url="https://stuowa.eku.edu/owa/redir.aspx?C=c036f80f65754073b2a71be558c38549&URL=http%3a%2f%2fyurukov.net%2fblog%2f2008%2f10%2f01%2fkoe_e_po_vredno_nargileto_ili_cigarite%2f"]http://yurukov.net/blog/2008/10/01/koe_e_po_vredno_nargileto_ili_cigarite/[/url]

^^^^^^^
(As you can see in this video/photo, even just one to a few cigarettes smoked through the filter causes a astromonical difference in discoloration than the hookah pipe does, even though the pipe lasted the whole session.)

I would also like to state that most (but not all) citations and sources came from these locations:

[url="https://stuowa.eku.edu/owa/redir.aspx?C=c036f80f65754073b2a71be558c38549&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.harmreductionjournal.com%2fcontent%2f5%2f1%2f19"]http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/5/1/19[/url]

[url="https://stuowa.eku.edu/owa/redir.aspx?C=c036f80f65754073b2a71be558c38549&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.hookahforum.com"]http://www.hookahforum.com[/url]

[url="https://stuowa.eku.edu/owa/redir.aspx?C=c036f80f65754073b2a71be558c38549&URL=http%3a%2f%2fyurukov.net%2fblog%2f2008%2f10%2f01%2fkoe_e_po_vredno_nargileto_ili_cigarite%2f"]http://yurukov.net/blog/2008/10/01/koe_e_po_vredno_nargileto_ili_cigarite/[/url]


I hope after reading my repsonse you have the time to send a reply with your thoughts.

Thank you,


David Frank


[size="4"]However, since the university doesn't let me post any more than 900 characters on their updates column, I can't publicly share my response to this *ahem* Lovely young lady.[/size]

[Chreees]

You show her, Dave!

Sucks you can't post it publicly...

Let us know her response.

[agunn1231]

Yurukovs blog is something i used for a report on hookah.
hope she listens tho

[Cp44]

woot go David go David go go go

[Matto]

That's a great reply, have you tried posting it in multiple replies to the original post to get around the character limitation?

[TheyCallMeDave]

Well the way it works, is that it's a bulliten board that the whole campus, faculty and students, see on a daily basis. So it does have some organization and formality to it. Otherwise, I would totally do somethign like that.


I think I'm goign to give a small intro, and then gie a link showing the reply I sent her. So that way, I don't lose people right away. But it is what it is.

[twoapplesplease]

Hookah smoking is bad for you and tobacco use can cause cancer.

I like to put it into tobacco is tobacco perspective....how much actual tobacco is in a hookah bowl? 1-3 ciggs worth depending...and this is how bad for you hookah is on the cigg scale-o-meter...

[dizzbizz]

Nice. I wanna see what she responds with.

[ezxen]

email to her if you cant post more than 900

[noodle]

I've long been skeptical of the mechanism by which tobacco is alleged to cause cancer. I'm particularly skeptical of allegations that being near tobacco smoke is bad. See, since lungs evolved in the most primitive of air-breathing animals, mechanisms have developed to keep the lungs free of crud. If tobacco smoke is so bad, then how did humans make it so far after discovering fire? In other news, cooking causes cancer. That doesn't jive with the fact that humans have been cooking for tens of thousands of years. Evolution would have weeded out people most suceptible to nitrosamines.

[Hassouni]

[quote name='noodle' timestamp='1290497747' post='489264']
I've long been skeptical of the mechanism by which tobacco is alleged to cause cancer. I'm particularly skeptical of allegations that being near tobacco smoke is bad. See, since lungs evolved in the most primitive of air-breathing animals, mechanisms have developed to keep the lungs free of crud. If tobacco smoke is so bad, then how did humans make it so far after discovering fire? In other news, cooking causes cancer. That doesn't jive with the fact that humans have been cooking for tens of thousands of years. Evolution would have weeded out people most suceptible to nitrosamines.
[/quote]

Well, people weren't directly breathing in concentrated smoke from their cooking fires....and compared to our millions of years of living on land and breathing air and having lungs, fire and cooking are EXTREMELY recent discoveries. Evolution isn't gonna deal with something like that: most people have kids in their 20s and 30s, well before anything serious usually sets in.

I do, for the record, think the whole vapor vs burning thing, what's left in the bowl, and yurukov's demonstration go a LONG way in proving that even if harmful, it's a HELL of a lot less harmful than cigs

[shalowlow]

We really don't know the health effects of sheesha. There are just too many variables.

We really don't even know what is in most of the tobacco we smoke.

Different coals have different emissions.

Different tobacco's have different levels of nicotine. They use different flavoring agents and none of us has a CLUE of what's really in there.

If you're burning your sheesha, maybe you ARE smoking tar....you don't REALLY know do you? Do you guys even know what people are referring to when saying Tar in terms of tobacco smoking? It stands for "total aerosol residue". Newsflash, that's a pretty broad definition, and it has nothing to do with the stuff that's paving our roads black. None of you even really know what tar is.

Stop trying to rationalize hookah's effects on your health. In the end, you are taking a risk by smoking anything.

[TheyCallMeDave]

[quote name='shalowlow' timestamp='1290544271' post='489327']
We really don't know the health effects of sheesha. There are just too many variables.

We really don't even know what is in most of the tobacco we smoke.

Different coals have different emissions.

Different tobacco's have different levels of nicotine. They use different flavoring agents and none of us has a CLUE of what's really in there.

If you're burning your sheesha, maybe you ARE smoking tar....you don't REALLY know do you? Do you guys even know what people are referring to when saying Tar in terms of tobacco smoking? It stands for "total aerosol residue". Newsflash, that's a pretty broad definition, and it has nothing to do with the stuff that's paving our roads black. None of you even really know what tar is.

Stop trying to rationalize hookah's effects on your health. In the end, you are taking a risk by smoking anything.
[/quote]

Of course I know tar isn't actual tar. That's why they started putting quotations around "tar" on health disclaimers found on tobacco products, because people thought that.

In no way am I trying to rationalize hookah smoking, but can't you agree that the "effects" are being blown out of proportion?

I will say ONCE AGAIN, That nothing you smoke is good for you. But I won't stand by why people conjure up scare stories to the public, when there is some obvious questions to be asked here.

Although you bring rationalization in to question, I ask you, what is less ignorant than people like this woman in the O.P giving [i]generalizations?[/i]

[shalowlow]

[quote name='TheyCallMeDave' timestamp='1290544834' post='489329']
[quote name='shalowlow' timestamp='1290544271' post='489327']
We really don't know the health effects of sheesha. There are just too many variables.

We really don't even know what is in most of the tobacco we smoke.

Different coals have different emissions.

Different tobacco's have different levels of nicotine. They use different flavoring agents and none of us has a CLUE of what's really in there.

If you're burning your sheesha, maybe you ARE smoking tar....you don't REALLY know do you? Do you guys even know what people are referring to when saying Tar in terms of tobacco smoking? It stands for "total aerosol residue". Newsflash, that's a pretty broad definition, and it has nothing to do with the stuff that's paving our roads black. None of you even really know what tar is.

Stop trying to rationalize hookah's effects on your health. In the end, you are taking a risk by smoking anything.
[/quote]

Of course I know tar isn't actual tar. That's why they started putting quotations around "tar" on health disclaimers found on tobacco products, because people thought that.

In no way am I trying to rationalize hookah smoking, but can't you agree that the "effects" are being blown out of proportion?

I will say ONCE AGAIN, That nothing you smoke is good for you. But I won't stand by why people conjure up scare stories to the public, when there is some obvious questions to be asked here.

Although you bring rationalization in to question, I ask you, what is less ignorant than people like this woman in the O.P giving [i]generalizations?[/i]
[/quote]

Dave, I agree with you about the generalizations, however, the person advocating the potentially dangerous act (yourself) has to be much more precise in his or her arguments that the person advocating a healthy choice (not smoking at all). Of course she has the benefit of the doubt because she is erring on the side of health.

[Josh Hamilton]

for cig smokers out there...

the only argument I have is that Ive been smoking hookah everyday...and still yet to have yellow teeth/black gums (proof of tar) which I got from kroniq cig smoking (1 pack a week every other 3 months)...   Edited November 23, 2010 by Josh Hamilton

[TheyCallMeDave]

[quote name='shalowlow' timestamp='1290547049' post='489334']
[quote name='TheyCallMeDave' timestamp='1290544834' post='489329']
[quote name='shalowlow' timestamp='1290544271' post='489327']
We really don't know the health effects of sheesha. There are just too many variables.

We really don't even know what is in most of the tobacco we smoke.

Different coals have different emissions.

Different tobacco's have different levels of nicotine. They use different flavoring agents and none of us has a CLUE of what's really in there.

If you're burning your sheesha, maybe you ARE smoking tar....you don't REALLY know do you? Do you guys even know what people are referring to when saying Tar in terms of tobacco smoking? It stands for "total aerosol residue". Newsflash, that's a pretty broad definition, and it has nothing to do with the stuff that's paving our roads black. None of you even really know what tar is.

Stop trying to rationalize hookah's effects on your health. In the end, you are taking a risk by smoking anything.
[/quote]

Of course I know tar isn't actual tar. That's why they started putting quotations around "tar" on health disclaimers found on tobacco products, because people thought that.

In no way am I trying to rationalize hookah smoking, but can't you agree that the "effects" are being blown out of proportion?

I will say ONCE AGAIN, That nothing you smoke is good for you. But I won't stand by why people conjure up scare stories to the public, when there is some obvious questions to be asked here.

Although you bring rationalization in to question, I ask you, what is less ignorant than people like this woman in the O.P giving [i]generalizations?[/i]
[/quote]

Dave, I agree with you about the generalizations, however, the person advocating the potentially dangerous act (yourself) has to be much more precise in his or her arguments that the person advocating a healthy choice (not smoking at all). Of course she has the benefit of the doubt because she is erring on the side of health.
[/quote]


Agreed, you make a valid point. I will never try to argue that smoking hookah is healthy, and she has every one of us trumped on that. I suppose I'm just trying to battle some of the arguments that are reinforced with her main viewpoint.

It all just bothers me. But I guess that's why people have opinions, isn't it? I don't think I'm going to change hers or anyone elses by any means. I just want people to hear a well thought, logical side to an arguement that is often if not always overlooked. Especially since the arguement her poses (stopping the usage of tobacco) already has a head start in the matter, from the cigarette craze that had just occured somewhat recently.


Or I could just smoke my hookah and shut my mouth. Hahaha.

[jorlyfish]

I assume you haven't gotten a response from her yet? I'm curious to see what she has to say about your message.

[TheyCallMeDave]

[quote name='jorlyfish' timestamp='1290558038' post='489347']
I assume you haven't gotten a response from her yet? I'm curious to see what she has to say about your message.
[/quote]


No ma'm, still waiting. But it is Thanksgiving break, so I wouldn't be suprised to see a timely response over the weekend.

[noodle]

I snerk a little when people point to the goo that builds up on the rim of a pipe that's been used to smoke aromatics and call it tar. It's carmelized sugar!

[Pretender85]

I like that reply..people rarely listen to facts wherever smoking is involved though sadly..since the cigarette industry has essentially caused all forms of tobacco to be rolled in with their chemicalized crap.

it's interesting how noone really mentions that hookah is (generally) non addictive as compared to cigarettes as well. I can use the thing 2x a day for an entire week and go months without. Maybe I just don't have an addictive personality, but that's what i've noticed.

[Stuie]

I have to say that was eloquently put.

[Skoozle]

Slightly off topic, but I think the addiction of cigarettes comes from the pattern of usage. At any point in the day an addicted cigarette smoker will have a "comfortable" level of nicotine in their blood. This is because they can feed their craving when the level of nicotine falls too low, it's not hard to take a cig break. They get used to the relatively constant level of nicotine in their blood.

A hookah smoker on the other hand does not usually smoke consistently through out the day. From what I gather, just a few hours in the evening. A hookah smoker rarely has a considerable level of nicotine in their blood and therefore do not become accustomed to living everyday life with nicotine in the blood. It's an occasional buzz.

Back on topic: Way to go Dave!

[Yasseah]

matt damon

[HookahLover25]

Can't wait for her response. Maybe she will join you for a smoke .

[TheyCallMeDave]

What does one do when one's email reponse isn't answered in a week? One would obviously resend the email, once a week, until answered of course.