Meanwhile In Soviet Sweden

[johan]

[font="Arial"][size="2"][quote=Swedish customs]Tobaksskatt ska betalas för röktobak, exempelvis vattenpipstobak. Detta gäller även om produkterna helt eller delvis består av andra ämnen än tobak, till exempel rökmassa av märkena Soex, High Life eller El Rosha.[/size][/font]
[font="Arial"][size="2"]Skattesatsen för röktobak är 1560 kronor per kilo. Det innebär att tobaksskatten för ett paket på 250 gram är 390 kronor och för ett paket på 50 gram 78 kronor.[/quote][/size][/font]

[font="Arial"][size="2"][quote=Google translate]Tobacco tax to be paid for smoking tobacco, such as shisha. This applies even if the products in whole or in part of substances other than tobacco, such rökmassa of brands Soex, High Life or El Rosha.[/size][/font][font="Arial"][size="2"]The tax rate for tobacco is 1560 SEK per kg. This meant that the tobacco tax on a pack of 250 grams is 390 SEK and for a package of 50 grams of 78 crowns.[/quote][/size][/font]

[font="Arial"][size="2"]Basically, you have to pay tobacco tax for shisha tobacco even if it doesn't contain any tobacco at all. Herbal shisha still counts as tobacco [/size][/font][img]http://www.hookahforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]

What's more, you pay tobacco tax for the whole shisha, not just for the tobacco itself. So for a 1kg jar of shisha, you would have to pay 1560 SEK in taxes. How much is that? $223 dollars.

A 250 gram jar? $56 in tobacco tax. Add to that the fact that we in Sweden have 25% VAT on everything except books and food.

It's no big surprise that almost no one sells shisha openly here and no one does it legally. It is probably easier to buy a piece of [b]NHT[/b] than it is to buy genuine shisha. Good thing that we can order from the US, you Americans sure do have it easy [img]http://www.hookahforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/wry.gif[/img] Edited January 4, 2011 by INCUBUSRATM
NHT ref.

[Cp44]

damn that sucks!

[magick777]

That truly sucks; I'm surprised the British government hasn't come up with a ruse like that. Over here, they've slapped a duty of £71 per kg on tobacco-based molasses, but doesn't apply to non-tobacco products. Thankfully, we have a thriving black market. If you can reliably get it from the US without customs seizures, taxes or detection, great, but not all US retailers will falsify customs declarations for you. Also be aware that the US is planning its own punitive tax legislation on tobacco. If you ever really get stuck... the anarchist in me says that we, as forum members and as members of a global hookah community, should probably be willing to help out. A post in the European Trades forum might not go amiss.

I don't know whether this will be of interest, and it may or may not be a good price compared with your other options, but I have a local source of 250g packs of mainly Nakhla, some al-Fakher, at 10GBP for 250g. The Post Office tells me that to ship one pack to Sweden would cost £3.25 and to ship two packs, something like £4.95. So if all else fails, I could ship you what we get here for something like 150 SEK per 250g pack. We'd have to work out the details, but get in touch if you really get stuck. It wouldn't be much trouble, though it's probably more expensive than ordering from the US.

[thatonethere]

I hope USA doesn't go that route, however sometimes it looks like they're about to do the same thing over here.

[jordan]

Politicians will always find it easy to raise taxes on things like tobacco, liquor or gambling. Where I live they call it "sin" tax and it is easily passed because most people will not object to it compared with other types of taxes (i,e income or property). In the city of Chicago a pack of cigarettes costs as much as $8.50 due to recent tax increases. In the US we have been somewhat lucky compared to socialist Sweden and others where citizens pay as much as 70% or more of thier income in taxes but the way things are going in the US we are not far behind specially if our states and federal governments keep the current course of borrowing and spending our future away.

[noodle]

There appears to be a revolt brewing in the US against excessive government actions. I still hold out some hope that things will get better. At the very least, the election of Moonbeam Brown to the governership of California will provide an opportunity for the loonies to shoot themselves in the foot and thereby validate the criticism against them.

[Kapten Kanel]

Dont know if you are came back after ban but i can PM you a few USA vendors that ships to sweden (and helps with these issues). Would really like to have a talk with the people who decides these things, charging tobacco tax on something that isnt tobacco, well, thats just broken...

[Balthazar]

Damn, that really sucks. Writing this from neighbouring Norway I sure am glad Norwegian customs still has no clue what shisha is (or maybe they do (every brand I import do have the word "tobacco" mentioned on their boxes, so it would be hard not to), but aren't sure if regular tobacco taxes apply to it). Just recieved my first order since early 2010, and was relieved to see the package from HJ go through customs without me having to pay anything. Our tobacco taxes are even higher than the Swedish: about 2190 NOK for a kg of shisha (380 USD).

That thing about non-tobacco shisha being included is absolutely ridiculous. Might as well apply the taxes to honey and glycerine. And the fact that specific brands are mentioned does indicate that Sweden seems to take this more serious than Norway (although I fear we will face the same sort of thing here in a couple of years).This is why I pray hookah stays unknown, although it's popularity seems to be increasing (although we're still far behind Sweden and Denmark, and certainly Germany and UK). Edited February 5, 2011 by Balthazar

[Kapten Kanel]

Imagine going to the supermarket and buying a jar of honey, check the price - "1995kr" x(

Express order, gift, sent from private address, no mention of tobacco on package, writing down value, works so far. I would cut one of my arms off for having the same market as USA...

[shaffaaf27]

it's getting bad, but I'm not complaining. What we are using isn't good for us. If cigs and drinks can be taxed big, why not shisha. It's a bitch yes, but soemthing we should accept.

[Kapten Kanel]

[quote]it's getting bad, but I'm not complaining. What we are using isn't good for us. If cigs and drinks can be taxed big, why not shisha. It's a bitch yes, but [b]soemthing we should accept.[/b] [/quote]

Ehm, what? Yes, lets tax everything thats not good for us to hell... Please, you must see how flawed and broken that is? "Normal" (another discussion) tobacco tax is also not what this thread is about, its about taking tobacco tax on products which doesnt contain tobacco... Or do you agree with that too? Because its meant to be smoked too ( - harmful) might aswell tax it the same?

Still havent seen any real objective correctly done scientific research about the effects of hookah...

[shaffaaf27]

why not? its a luxuary, its not a nessessaty, and luxuaries should be taxed if the gvnment need money.

plus in the UK, smoking and drinking equate to massive NHS bills, and therefore they should be taxed.

i completely agree thats its completely propsterous that they tax herbal shisha, i am there with you about that though.

[rahl071]

I think you may not realize you're in a miniscule minority shaffaaf. As per the luxury argument, there's tons of things that you don't need, and would be royally pissed if their price quadrupled because of a tax.

[shaffaaf27]

i said i agreed with tax. I didn't state i agreed with the ammount

[Tom1]

[quote name='jordan' timestamp='1294243877' post='493447']
In the city of Chicago a pack of cigarettes costs as much as $8.50
[/quote]

That's nothing, it's 12-15 bucks in NYC. Not that it affects me but having a state tax that is 5x higher than every other state is just wrong.

[rahl071]

There's already taxes in place here, idk about where you're at. And i'd be super hacked off if shisha went up some more.

[noodle]

[quote name='shaffaaf27' timestamp='1297280779' post='497338']
why not? its a luxuary, its not a nessessaty, and luxuaries should be taxed if the gvnment need money.

plus in the UK, smoking and drinking equate to massive NHS bills, and therefore they should be taxed.

i completely agree thats its completely propsterous that they tax herbal shisha, i am there with you about that though.
[/quote]

You need to consider the economic and criminal effects of high taxes. Tax something too high and basic economic laws kick in and you have a vibrant black market of smuggled goods. You also get crime related to gangs trying to corner the market on the trade in said goods.

[kcK]

Indeed. Taxes are crucial, but I couldn't imagine spending $250 on tobacco, and that's just the taxes. But then again, I don't know like... What hourly wages are in Sweden or Norway... I mean.. If you were making like... 20000SEK per month, I could understand paying 2000SEK for a kilogram... I guess.. But I don't know any way to judge it... Anyways... I don't wish to further elaborate and show my idiocy, so I'll walk away now.

[Balthazar]

[quote name='shaffaaf27' timestamp='1297280779' post='497338']
why not? its a luxuary, its not a nessessaty, and luxuaries should be taxed if the gvnment need money.

plus in the UK, smoking and drinking equate to massive NHS bills, and therefore they should be taxed.

i completely agree thats its completely propsterous that they tax herbal shisha, i am there with you about that though.
[/quote]

It's not the taxes in themselves that constitutes the problem (at least not for me). It's more that taxing shisha by weight, using the same pricing system that you use for cigarettes, cigars and any other tobacco, makes smoking hookah 10x as expensive as any other substance one would use to self-harm. It makes absolutely no sense that it should be as expensive for me to smoke a bowl of shisha as it would be to smoke 100 cigarettes. What's really being taxed heavily here is wetting agents and such.

Also, regarding smokers being costly for welfare states, that's not entirely uncontroversial. Check out [url="http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0050029"]this study[/url].