Herbal Shisha

[Mitz]

Hi does anybody know if herbal shisha is a part of the smoking ban? or is it allowed indoors in public places?

[Arcane]

i'd assume it's different for different states, let alone different countries. I'm not sure how UK laws operate, but I'd suggest asking one of your government officials or maybe your region/area/city has a website with the laws listed.

[magick777]

It is treated as any other smoking; I can't quote the letter of the law, but some UK shisha cafes have apparently adopted a "half-covered" arrangement so that they can have a semi-indoor area within the legal technicalities of the smoking ban. I have no idea how the law would treat an electric hookah; the use of a vaporise is not technically prohibited - but if the end result is what everybody else considers to be smoke (and indeed, if your vaporiser causes ANY combustion, then technically there is smoke), I can imagine the police would take a dim view.

It is legal to smoke herbal or tobacco based molasses outside, indoors in a private place, or within any shelters that fit within the definitions provided the smoking ban; there are no exceptions for shisha. You can find plenty of news articles on the subject from two or three years back. Further, it is only legal to sell tobacco based molasses if a) one is duly licensed as a tobacconist and the said molasses is legally imported with the excise duty paid, and there have been enforcement actions. That put paid to a lot of shisha cafes, though places that were already successful cafes with shisha as a sideline, have moved it outside. Some have gone legal on the molasses, some never were and never will be.

Why do you ask? Where were you hoping to smoke? I'm quite interested in community-type solutions...

[Mitz]

[quote name='magick777' timestamp='1294278120' post='493506']
It is treated as any other smoking; I can't quote the letter of the law, but some UK shisha cafes have apparently adopted a "half-covered" arrangement so that they can have a semi-indoor area within the legal technicalities of the smoking ban. I have no idea how the law would treat an electric hookah; the use of a vaporise is not technically prohibited - but if the end result is what everybody else considers to be smoke (and indeed, if your vaporiser causes ANY combustion, then technically there is smoke), I can imagine the police would take a dim view.

It is legal to smoke herbal or tobacco based molasses outside, indoors in a private place, or within any shelters that fit within the definitions provided the smoking ban; there are no exceptions for shisha. You can find plenty of news articles on the subject from two or three years back. Further, it is only legal to sell tobacco based molasses if a) one is duly licensed as a tobacconist and the said molasses is legally imported with the excise duty paid, and there have been enforcement actions. That put paid to a lot of shisha cafes, though places that were already successful cafes with shisha as a sideline, have moved it outside. Some have gone legal on the molasses, some never were and never will be.

Why do you ask? Where were you hoping to smoke? I'm quite interested in community-type solutions...
[/quote]

The reason I was asking if herbal molasses were not allowed indoors was that I was thinking of a solution where maybe smoking herbal molasses could be done indoors and customers could still get a nicotine hit from a vapour type product that way having the feeling very similar to real shisha but i'm not sure if it would be possible or would be successful. Any thoughts?

[r1v3th3ad]

chances are, you are out of luck on it...its a smoking ban...if shisha is included then the herbal will be too because it is shisha(although a different kind)

A vapour bar for shisha sounds cool, but then again, gotta worry about the image that machine has associated with it

[magick777]

[quote name='Mitz' timestamp='1294298741' post='493532']
The reason I was asking if herbal molasses were not allowed indoors was that I was thinking of a solution where maybe smoking herbal molasses could be done indoors and customers could still get a nicotine hit from a vapour type product that way having the feeling very similar to real shisha but i'm not sure if it would be possible or would be successful. Any thoughts?
[/quote]

Leaving aside the legalities for a moment, my first thought is that that has the potential to be bloody dangerous. Nicotine is a poison in very low doses, and the typical lethal dose, in humans, is quoted at 30-60mg. Which, incidentally, you can find in a 10g bowl of good shisha. The reason it doesn't kill you is that first, you don't absorb all of that, and secondly it's not easy to absorb a fatal dose by smoking, as you'd get ill enough to stop. If say 50mg of nicotine (based on quoted 0.5% from Nakhla, 10g bowl) is divided over, say 200 puffs of smoke, you'd need to deliver a quarter of a milligram in a lungful of air, you'd need medical grade equipment and concentrates, and you'd have very little safety net in terms of dosage. You'd be very likely to make people ill; worst case, you are playing with something that could kill, quickly. This is not something to experiment with.

Going back to the legals.. nope, I'm pretty sure you haven't found a loop hole. In fact, a device that is designed to administer a spray of a noxious subtance even runs the risk of being treated as a prohibited weapon; you might find yourself grappling with laws designed to prevent offensive weapons and/or suicide devices, never mind anti-smoking laws. I don't see anyone ever making a successful business out of this. Also, and I mean this nicely rather than not, it is a solution looking for a problem, in that the ban happened three years ago and those who had to adapt, have adapted. Those who are determined to obtain traditional molasses still do; those who are determined to smoke it indoors do so at home. I don't think, if you built it, that people would come.

Sorry not to be more optimistic. In my view, the most constructive thing we can do is to share with friends and family in private homes; I don't think you can commercialise shisha in the UK without being subject to considerable scrutiny and hassle.

[Mitz]

[quote name='magick777' timestamp='1294320626' post='493550']
[quote name='Mitz' timestamp='1294298741' post='493532']
The reason I was asking if herbal molasses were not allowed indoors was that I was thinking of a solution where maybe smoking herbal molasses could be done indoors and customers could still get a nicotine hit from a vapour type product that way having the feeling very similar to real shisha but i'm not sure if it would be possible or would be successful. Any thoughts?
[/quote]

Leaving aside the legalities for a moment, my first thought is that that has the potential to be bloody dangerous. Nicotine is a poison in very low doses, and the typical lethal dose, in humans, is quoted at 30-60mg. Which, incidentally, you can find in a 10g bowl of good shisha. The reason it doesn't kill you is that first, you don't absorb all of that, and secondly it's not easy to absorb a fatal dose by smoking, as you'd get ill enough to stop. If say 50mg of nicotine (based on quoted 0.5% from Nakhla, 10g bowl) is divided over, say 200 puffs of smoke, you'd need to deliver a quarter of a milligram in a lungful of air, you'd need medical grade equipment and concentrates, and you'd have very little safety net in terms of dosage. You'd be very likely to make people ill; worst case, you are playing with something that could kill, quickly. This is not something to experiment with.

Going back to the legals.. nope, I'm pretty sure you haven't found a loop hole. In fact, a device that is designed to administer a spray of a noxious subtance even runs the risk of being treated as a prohibited weapon; you might find yourself grappling with laws designed to prevent offensive weapons and/or suicide devices, never mind anti-smoking laws. I don't see anyone ever making a successful business out of this. Also, and I mean this nicely rather than not, it is a solution looking for a problem, in that the ban happened three years ago and those who had to adapt, have adapted. Those who are determined to obtain traditional molasses still do; those who are determined to smoke it indoors do so at home. I don't think, if you built it, that people would come.

Sorry not to be more optimistic. In my view, the most constructive thing we can do is to share with friends and family in private homes; I don't think you can commercialise shisha in the UK without being subject to considerable scrutiny and hassle.





Saying that though, electric cigarettes work by vapourizing nicotine with water and there are no problems so far and no deaths so why wouldn't it work if i used the same method just with herbal molasses (if they were not banned)




[/quote]

[glider]

[quote name='magick777' timestamp='1294320626' post='493550']
[quote name='Mitz' timestamp='1294298741' post='493532']
The reason I was asking if herbal molasses were not allowed indoors was that I was thinking of a solution where maybe smoking herbal molasses could be done indoors and customers could still get a nicotine hit from a vapour type product that way having the feeling very similar to real shisha but i'm not sure if it would be possible or would be successful. Any thoughts?
[/quote]

Leaving aside the legalities for a moment, my first thought is that that has the potential to be bloody dangerous. Nicotine is a poison in very low doses, and the typical lethal dose, in humans, is quoted at 30-60mg. Which, incidentally, you can find in a 10g bowl of good shisha. The reason it doesn't kill you is that first, you don't absorb all of that, and secondly it's not easy to absorb a fatal dose by smoking, as you'd get ill enough to stop. If say 50mg of nicotine (based on quoted 0.5% from Nakhla, 10g bowl) is divided over, say 200 puffs of smoke, you'd need to deliver a quarter of a milligram in a lungful of air, you'd need medical grade equipment and concentrates, and you'd have very little safety net in terms of dosage. You'd be very likely to make people ill; worst case, you are playing with something that could kill, quickly. This is not something to experiment with.

Going back to the legals.. nope, I'm pretty sure you haven't found a loop hole. In fact, a device that is designed to administer a spray of a noxious subtance even runs the risk of being treated as a prohibited weapon; you might find yourself grappling with laws designed to prevent offensive weapons and/or suicide devices, never mind anti-smoking laws. I don't see anyone ever making a successful business out of this. Also, and I mean this nicely rather than not, it is a solution looking for a problem, in that the ban happened three years ago and those who had to adapt, have adapted. Those who are determined to obtain traditional molasses still do; those who are determined to smoke it indoors do so at home. I don't think, if you built it, that people would come.

Sorry not to be more optimistic. In my view, the most constructive thing we can do is to share with friends and family in private homes; I don't think you can commercialise shisha in the UK without being subject to considerable scrutiny and hassle.










[/quote]
i know several people who add a few drops of the liquid used in the e-cig cartridges to bowls of tobacco. gives them a bigger buzz and bigger clouds. but they dont get sick off it. i dont know much about e-cig(i just smoke real cigs.... bleh) but the liquid used has nicotine in such low concentrations that it wont kill you. ive heard there is more nicotine in a cigarette than an equivalent session on an e-cig. sure. i wouldnt use 1 cartridge per bowl.. but a few drops wont have much negative effect.

open to criticism since i dont know much about the topic personally.

Alex