Can'T Quite Perfect My Heat Management...

[bradleyclark86]

I've been bouncing between 2 types of heat management:

1) I started with 2 layers of foil and 3 coals (I use Cocos or Hookah John). This offers great clouds and great flavor, but the it's easy for the bowl to scorch (with certain brands) and I go through coal like crazy.

2) I use 1 lay of foil and only 2 coals. It never scorches, and I save on coal. The flavor is there, just not as strong. Also, the clouds are lacking with this method.

[Note: in my experience, cloud size is directly proportional to flavor intensity]
[Note: I'll use a windscreen to help get the heat up or take it off to lower the heat]


I've even tried splitting my coals in half in and using 3 halves around the bowl, but that's the worst. I gave up after 10 minutes. I smoke several different brands (Social Smoke, Nakhla, Al Waha, Al Fakher, Starbuzz, Tangiers, Pharaoh's, etc) and the result is the same with all of them. It's really frustrating. I also use a small phunnel, if that counts for anything. I searched different threads but no one else seemed to have this problem. Thanks guys!

[Matto]

[quote name='bradleyclark86' timestamp='1294368521' post='493636']
I've been bouncing between 2 types of heat management:

1) I started with 2 layers of foil and 3 coals (I use Cocos or Hookah John). This offers great clouds and great flavor, but the it's easy for the bowl to scorch (with certain brands) and I go through coal like crazy.

2) I use 1 lay of foil and only 2 coals. It never scorches, and I save on coal. The flavor is there, just not as strong. Also, the clouds are lacking with this method.

[Note: in my experience, cloud size is directly proportional to flavor intensity]
[Note: I'll use a windscreen to help get the heat up or take it off to lower the heat]


I've even tried splitting my coals in half in and using 3 halves around the bowl, but that's the worst. I gave up after 10 minutes. I smoke several different brands (Social Smoke, Nakhla, Al Waha, Al Fakher, Starbuzz, Tangiers, Pharaoh's, etc) and the result is the same with all of them. It's really frustrating. I also use a small phunnel, if that counts for anything. I searched different threads but no one else seemed to have this problem. Thanks guys!
[/quote]

Different brands when packed right will require different amounts of heat. For example I get Nakhla to smoke best with 3 coals, while with Tangiers I only use 2. Try using a single layer of heavy duty foil.

Also it may not be a problem with the amount of coal at all, it could be the way you pack it. Try searching some How-to's for packing each brand in a small phunnel and make sure you've got that down.

[bradleyclark86]

[quote name='Matto' timestamp='1294369303' post='493637']
[quote name='bradleyclark86' timestamp='1294368521' post='493636']
I've been bouncing between 2 types of heat management:

1) I started with 2 layers of foil and 3 coals (I use Cocos or Hookah John). This offers great clouds and great flavor, but the it's easy for the bowl to scorch (with certain brands) and I go through coal like crazy.

2) I use 1 lay of foil and only 2 coals. It never scorches, and I save on coal. The flavor is there, just not as strong. Also, the clouds are lacking with this method.

[Note: in my experience, cloud size is directly proportional to flavor intensity]
[Note: I'll use a windscreen to help get the heat up or take it off to lower the heat]


I've even tried splitting my coals in half in and using 3 halves around the bowl, but that's the worst. I gave up after 10 minutes. I smoke several different brands (Social Smoke, Nakhla, Al Waha, Al Fakher, Starbuzz, Tangiers, Pharaoh's, etc) and the result is the same with all of them. It's really frustrating. I also use a small phunnel, if that counts for anything. I searched different threads but no one else seemed to have this problem. Thanks guys!
[/quote]

Different brands when packed right will require different amounts of heat. For example I get Nakhla to smoke best with 3 coals, while with Tangiers I only use 2. Try using a single layer of heavy duty foil.

Also it may not be a problem with the amount of coal at all, it could be the way you pack it. Try searching some How-to's for packing each brand in a small phunnel and make sure you've got that down.
[/quote]

I already use heavy duty foil. I can't get regular foil to shape right on the bowl. I think I have my packing method down pat: wetter stuff gets packed loosely (minus Tangiers); drier gets packed tighter. At least...that's the general consensus from what I've read.

[magick777]

I don't have the solution, but am playing with the same dilemma and making basically the same observations as you; if I add enough heat to get good flavour and clouds, it smokes fine for a while and then I get scorching. For me, this seems to be about the amount of coal and I get the same results whether I put it on top of one, two, or four thicknesses of foil; it just takes slightly longer to scorch on thicker foil.

With the caveat that I am still playing with this same issue and this is hardly expert advice, my thinking is that the greater the surface area of tobacco that is smoking, the greater the thickness of smoke and flavour - therefore, for big smoke, we want enough coals to heat all of the bowl. We're not trying for a long-lasting session of gently moving a coal around here. So, reducing the number of coals isn't going to be the answer. With some bowls and some tobaccos I've had good results by leaving a clear gap below the foil of 3-4mm, but the results have not been reliably reproducible.

One approach that I recently saw from a German retailer is spacers, which are basically rings of aluminium, 30mm and 60mm diameter, designed to sit on top of the foil and lift the coals off the foil by 4, 6 or 8mm. I have not yet tried them, but it makes sense. Another thought I've had, but not yet tried, is that one might achieve something similar by putting a normal charcoal screen on top of foil, the idea being that the screen should act as a heat spreader whilst the foil seals the bowl. I'm still very much experimenting myself, so will be watching this thread with interest.

[Matto]

Doubling up HD foil is overkill in my opinion. One thing I overlooked is that if you're using a Tangiers phunnel it will hold heat extremely well. This means that once it gets heated up by the coals on top it cooks the shisha evenly and leaving the same amount of heat on top can lead to harshness. Also as soon as you feel it starting to get harsh move the coals further out on the rim or remove one completely and purge. Make sure you're using enough tobacco as well in the phunnel, especially with tangiers. If in doubt overpack the bowl don't underpack it.

[Skoozle]

Are you using a wind cover?

If not, do this on your second method to increase the heat a little. Take the wind cover off if it starts to get hot.

[ih303]

[quote name='magick777' timestamp='1294372287' post='493644']
I've had good results by leaving a clear gap below the foil of 3-4mm, but the results have not been reliably reproducible.
[/quote]

I understand that some people around the forum prefer this method of packing, but in my opinion it's a leading contributor to bad sessions in general. Interestingly enough, people who come to my lounge and complain about terrible sessions at home seem to share the same misconception that the tobacco shouldn't touch the foil. Most of the time I simply explain my opinion of why this doesn't work and then show them how I pack my bowls.

Now, considering I'm not only a passionate smoker but also a hookah lounge owner, I've had the opportunity to pack/smoke quite a few bowls. I've also experimented extensively with different products and methods in order to figure out the best way to do things. That said, I've tried many different ways of packing including the "convection" method (space between foil & tobacco) and keep coming back to the "conduction" method (foil touching tobacco). It just works.

[quote name='Matto' timestamp='1294380341' post='493676']
Doubling up HD foil is overkill in my opinion.
[/quote]

The only time I double foil is when I pack Tangiers Noir at my lounge. It seems to make the bowls a bit more forgiving in terms of heat management considering we don't give our customers tongs. For the most part, though, I stick to a single layer.

[quote name='Matto' timestamp='1294380341' post='493676']
If in doubt overpack the bowl don't underpack it.
[/quote]

^ This

[bradleyclark86]

[size="4"][b]UPDATE:[/b][/size]

Just got done smoking some Tangiers Kashmir Cherry. By far, my most successful bowl of OG Tangiers. I know this thread was started as a means of general management, during my trial and error, I did really well with some Tangiers. Technique used:

[list][*]slightly underpacked the bowl
I used much less than I've seen in youtube packing videos[*]2 layers of heavy foil[*]CH coals
started with 3 to get it warm
moved to 2
added and removed wind cover as necessary
added third coal again once coal size started to diminish[/list]Granted, I didn't get the huge clouds that are associated with Tangiers, the smoke was smooth with virtually no harshness throughout the session. This is a big step in my process. I'll be posting more updates.

[dizzbizz]

Well this is my fool proof way of smoking OG Tang. Try this and let us know how it goes.
First I pack it tight using the palm press on the bowl(I'm assuming this is with a small Phunnel). One layer of HD foil with three rings of holes all the way to the bottom. Cut two coco's in half and use all four halves on the bowl. Around the edge opposite sides of each other. I get instant clouds and great flavor. I hardly ever have a problem with this method. Good luck! Sometimes I'll use 3 whole coals but it can get burnt pretty easily.

[mustang67n]

check your hole pattern too.. especially with Tangiers in the Phunnel bowls, I use a mini and hole pattern is 3 rings of holes. the rings are spaced about 1/2 cm apart from each other and the holes of each ring are about 1 cm apart from each other. i use a 16 ga. piercing needle which a little smaller than most toothpics. When I was having trouble with Tangiers, the holes were my problem, I had too many which caused excess heat.

might help

[bradleyclark86]

[quote name='dizzbizz' timestamp='1296713693' post='496640']
Well this is my fool proof way of smoking OG Tang. Try this and let us know how it goes.
First I pack it tight using the palm press on the bowl(I'm assuming this is with a small Phunnel). One layer of HD foil with three rings of holes all the way to the bottom. Cut two coco's in half and use all four halves on the bowl. Around the edge opposite sides of each other. I get instant clouds and great flavor. I hardly ever have a problem with this method. Good luck! Sometimes I'll use 3 whole coals but it can get burnt pretty easily.
[/quote]

I'll give that a shot next time. I'm not a big fan of cutting up coals because I end up always getting more (from the box, not ordering). I'm the "throw em on and forget about em" type, but only modern-style shishas allow that (Social Smoke, Starbuzz, etc). And yes, I'm using a small phunnel.

[quote name='mustang67n' timestamp='1296753490' post='496685']
check your hole pattern too.. especially with Tangiers in the Phunnel bowls, I use a mini and hole pattern is 3 rings of holes. the rings are spaced about 1/2 cm apart from each other and the holes of each ring are about 1 cm apart from each other. i use a 16 ga. piercing needle which a little smaller than most toothpics. When I was having trouble with Tangiers, the holes were my problem, I had too many which caused excess heat.

might help
[/quote]

I haven't thought about that. I don't poke a whole lot. I'll post a picture here soon. A typical bowl for me is 3 or 4 rings. The poker I use looks like a metal tooth pick; it slides into the handle of my tongs. Came free with my hookah. Best tongs ever.

[Yasseah]

Use 3 coals and take one off when it gets to be too much...when the coals have gotten small, throw the 3rd one back on if need be.

[bradleyclark86]

[quote name='Yasseah' timestamp='1296850262' post='496781']
Use 3 coals and take one off when it gets to be too much...when the coals have gotten small, throw the 3rd one back on if need be.
[/quote]

uuummmm........

[quote name='bradleyclark86' timestamp='1296709953' post='496638']
[size="4"][b]UPDATE:[/b][/size]

Just got done smoking some Tangiers Kashmir Cherry. By far, my most successful bowl of OG Tangiers. I know this thread was started as a means of general management, during my trial and error, I did really well with some Tangiers. Technique used:

[list][*]slightly underpacked the bowl
I used much less than I've seen in youtube packing videos[*]2 layers of heavy foil[*]CH coals
[size="3"][b][color="#ff0000"]started with 3 to get it warm
moved to 2
added and removed wind cover as necessary
added third coal again once coal size started to diminish[/color][/b][/size][/list]Granted, I didn't get the huge clouds that are associated with Tangiers, the smoke was smooth with virtually no harshness throughout the session. This is a big step in my process. I'll be posting more updates.
[/quote]

[joytron]

Keep in mind the phunnels are handmade. My friends small I use three halves for tangiers, on mine I generally use for halves or 3 of the cubes. Also I have found I generally have better sessions when the bowl warms up slowly. I generally place the coals in the ash tray first to cool them down. Dont expect mega clouds immediately, give it a couple minutes and if they are not large increase the heat.

[momentum]

Funnels are hand made?!

Anyway, I find a single layer of foil and 2 coals on the edge works best for OG tang in my small. I personally dont pack it super tight, but I pack it super dense. i dunno, maybe thats the same thing to some people. I take thick clumps and drop em in, because apparently (according to the instructions on a tangiers sheet) it should be as dense in the bowl as it is in the package. Works well for me, though it uses up way too much shisha. So now I use my micro funnel =D

[Kapten Kanel]

I think tangiers phunnels are handmade, chinese are not.

[TheyCallMeDave]

[quote name='momentum' timestamp='1296876967' post='496833']
Funnels are hand made?!

[/quote]


Yes. That's why you will see variations on spire thickness, bowl depthness, etc.

[bradleyclark86]

[size="4"][b]UPDATE:[/b][/size]

Just got done with a bowl of Al Waha California Dream and watermelon. Instead of the phunnel, I used one of the windscreen bowls (with the windscreen removed; still used the screen). Here's the results:

[media]http://www.hookahforum.com/uploads/1296581226/gallery_8311_382_29635.jpg[/media]

[media]http://www.hookahforum.com/uploads/1296581226/gallery_8311_382_91129.jpg[/media]

I still used CH coals; 2 at a time, placed on opposite sides of the bowl. The flavor was smooth, and I got decent sized clouds for the brand. I would add and remove my windscreen as necessary. I'm thinking that in the future, drier shisha such as Al Waha and Nakhla will be smoked out of a classic bowl. I'll use my phunnel for its intended purpose: Tangiers and wetter shisha. I'll continue to post updates with my findings.

[bradleyclark86]

Also, I forgot to mention that my heat management escapades encompass ALL shisha. I don't want this to be another "I can't get Tangiers to smoke right" thread.

[Yasseah]

[quote name='bradleyclark86' timestamp='1296872995' post='496827']
[quote name='Yasseah' timestamp='1296850262' post='496781']
Use 3 coals and take one off when it gets to be too much...when the coals have gotten small, throw the 3rd one back on if need be.
[/quote]

uuummmm........

[quote name='bradleyclark86' timestamp='1296709953' post='496638']
[size="4"][b]UPDATE:[/b][/size]

Just got done smoking some Tangiers Kashmir Cherry. By far, my most successful bowl of OG Tangiers. I know this thread was started as a means of general management, during my trial and error, I did really well with some Tangiers. Technique used:

[list][*]slightly underpacked the bowl
I used much less than I've seen in youtube packing videos[*]2 layers of heavy foil[*]CH coals
[size="3"][b][color="#ff0000"]started with 3 to get it warm
moved to 2
added and removed wind cover as necessary
added third coal again once coal size started to diminish[/color][/b][/size][/list]Granted, I didn't get the huge clouds that are associated with Tangiers, the smoke was smooth with virtually no harshness throughout the session. This is a big step in my process. I'll be posting more updates.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Well you could always try using 3 coals and then taking one off if it gets to be too much.

[joytron]

[quote name='Yasseah' timestamp='1297111757' post='497111']
[quote name='bradleyclark86' timestamp='1296872995' post='496827']
[quote name='Yasseah' timestamp='1296850262' post='496781']
Use 3 coals and take one off when it gets to be too much...when the coals have gotten small, throw the 3rd one back on if need be.
[/quote]

uuummmm........

[quote name='bradleyclark86' timestamp='1296709953' post='496638']
[size="4"][b]UPDATE:[/b][/size]

Just got done smoking some Tangiers Kashmir Cherry. By far, my most successful bowl of OG Tangiers. I know this thread was started as a means of general management, during my trial and error, I did really well with some Tangiers. Technique used:

[list][*]slightly underpacked the bowl
I used much less than I've seen in youtube packing videos[*]2 layers of heavy foil[*]CH coals
[size="3"][b][color="#ff0000"]started with 3 to get it warm
moved to 2
added and removed wind cover as necessary
added third coal again once coal size started to diminish[/color][/b][/size][/list]Granted, I didn't get the huge clouds that are associated with Tangiers, the smoke was smooth with virtually no harshness throughout the session. This is a big step in my process. I'll be posting more updates.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Well you could always try using 3 coals and then taking one off if it gets to be too much.
[/quote]

Excellent idea! Be sure to try that method bradley.

[bradleyclark86]

I can't tell if y'all are serious or if I'm being trolled...

[bradleyclark86]

[size="5"][color="#ff0000"][b]UPDATE:[/b][/color][/size]

It's been a week now and have made significant progress to my heat management. Here is what I have found so far:

[b]Al Fakher:[/b] 1 foil; lots of holes; 2 natural coal; add and remove wind screen as necessary
[b]Fantasia:[/b] 1 foil; lots of holes; 3 natural coal (this stuff is juicy); no windscreen necessary until the coal starts to shrink down

Also, I'm proud to release that I had my first successful bowl of OG Tangiers. I didn't get the huge cumulus clouds like I've seen in pictures or on YouTube, but they were still impressive. I followed John and Eric's YouTube video and here's what I did:

[list][*]pack it fairly tight; not as tight as Nakhla though...a tad looser[*]pack it up to the rim[*]lay a piece of foil on top and give it the signature palm press[*]tighten the foil down; run your thumb around the edge for the seal[*]I used lots of holes...more than what some people recommend. Also, instead of just poking the foil, I ran the poker all the way to the bottom. Eric used the line technique; I used circles.[*]2 natural coal - I'm used to stuff that is heat friendly, like Fantasia and Social Smoke. Tangiers doesn't like the heat so much. Instead of throwing the coal on immediately from the stove, like I normally do, I set both coal on my tray for about a minute. The time will vary depending on your brand of coal. I use John's coal and they cool down fast. When it's ready, the coal should be orange with a small layer of black on the bottom. I put them on the bowl, took a few puffs, and rotated them. I did this a couple times until the whole bowl was heated. I'm assuming it's normal for Tangiers to take a while to heat up. Once it got rolling, it was perfect. And I got to experience the famous Tangiers buzz. I'm hooked.[*]no windscreen until the end when the coal needs just a little help[/list]
Unfortunately, I have maybe 2 bowls of my Kashmir Cherry left. Hopefully I can replicate my technique enough to buy more OG Tangiers.