Where The Hell Is Our "leadership"

[mustafabey]

Libya was taken off the list of states that sponsor terrorism by the Bush administration. Business deals were made after Qaddafi renounced his nuclear ambitions. Khamis Qaddafi,one of Mu'ammar's sons and commander of the Khamis brigade(kind of like Saddam's Republican Guard) was an intern at AECOM( a global provider of professional technical and management support services to a broad range of markets) in the United States traveling everywhere including places like the Air Force academy. When the revolution began he returned home to command his unit.I am not saying that Libya deserved to be taken off the list,Qaddafi has done nasty things as documented by The Scotsman. There was also that shady deal the Brits made regarding the release of Abdel Baset al Megrahi for humanitarian reasons. He had 3 months to live but was miraculously cured once back home in Libya. Must be that desert air. I think our dear friends at BP were involved in that deal.

[GoldenFingerBl4ster99]

This is how I feel. Even if They did manage to put a stable government in place, American cooperations would influence the government totally and come in with huge policy changes and open up almost all profits to American businesses in the name of capitalism. The point is the unemployment would rise and so would poverty which would only throw fuel on the fire of he ongoing war. They've already done it with Chile and Iraq and it would be likely to happen in this situation I believe. But I could be wrong.

[Allstar]

Libyan troops sent into Chad to overthrow gov't (military actions)

Libyan bombing of Omburdman, Sudan, in an attempt to destabilize the area. (military action)

Mid 80's Libya placed anti-ship mines in Red Sea in an attempt to interfere with merchant maritime industry. (military action)

1983(?) Shots from inside Libyan gov't building in UK kill a Britich police officer. (possible terrorist)

1985ish, Libyann coordinated machine-gun & planned bombing attacks in Rome, and Vienna airports. (terrorist)

1986 Libyan military spec ops units bomb a US military frequented night club in Berlin. (military action)

1986/87, USN splashes a few libyan jets, and sinks a libyan frigate when they challenged US craft in international waters. (US military action)

1988 Pan Am Flt 103 bombed by libyan operative, with libyan planning, and funding. (terrorist)

1989 French UTA flight 772 bombed, Libyan planned, funded, and operatives. (terrorist)

1990ish, IDF captures arms, and personnel trained in Libya, being smuggled into Israel. (terrorist)

mid 90-ish Germany catches illegal export attempt of equipment intended to manufacture B/C weapons. (idk)

2002- Al Quada, a naturalized American, and Libyan gov't conspire to assassinate Crown Prince Abdullah S.A. and US agencies destroy the plan. (terrorist)

Libyan military trains/equips members of M-19, Japanese Red Army, and IRA along with a load more I can't remember. (military action)

I am sure there are a few I can't remember right now, and I likely got some of the dates wrong.

Ok and which of these were signed off by Qaddafi. I never said there weren't terrorist in Libya. Hell there are terrorist in America, does mean people should go to war with us. There isn't a single country in the world that don't have terrorist organizations. Now if he was using Al Queada, Taliban, HIG or any other group to do the fighting, that would be perfect grounds to run in there guns blazing. Though he is using his MILITARY to defend against civilians. Do we really need to risk our own peoples lives when we can do it from a distance with no problem.

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Allstar' timestamp='1301652847' post='503759']
Libyan troops sent into Chad to overthrow gov't (military actions)

Libyan bombing of Omburdman, Sudan, in an attempt to destabilize the area. (military action)

Mid 80's Libya placed anti-ship mines in Red Sea in an attempt to interfere with merchant maritime industry. (military action)

1983(?) Shots from inside Libyan gov't building in UK kill a Britich police officer. (possible terrorist)

1985ish, Libyann coordinated machine-gun & planned bombing attacks in Rome, and Vienna airports. (terrorist)

1986 Libyan military spec ops units bomb a US military frequented night club in Berlin. (military action)

1986/87, USN splashes a few libyan jets, and sinks a libyan frigate when they challenged US craft in international waters. (US military action)

1988 Pan Am Flt 103 bombed by libyan operative, with libyan planning, and funding. (terrorist)

1989 French UTA flight 772 bombed, Libyan planned, funded, and operatives. (terrorist)

1990ish, IDF captures arms, and personnel trained in Libya, being smuggled into Israel. (terrorist)

mid 90-ish Germany catches illegal export attempt of equipment intended to manufacture B/C weapons. (idk)

2002- Al Quada, a naturalized American, and Libyan gov't conspire to assassinate Crown Prince Abdullah S.A. and US agencies destroy the plan. (terrorist)

Libyan military trains/equips members of M-19, Japanese Red Army, and IRA along with a load more I can't remember. (military action)

I am sure there are a few I can't remember right now, and I likely got some of the dates wrong.

Ok and which of these were signed off by Qaddafi. I never said there weren't terrorist in Libya. Hell there are terrorist in America, does mean people should go to war with us. There isn't a single country in the world that don't have terrorist organizations. Now if he was using Al Queada, Taliban, HIG or any other group to do the fighting, that would be perfect grounds to run in there guns blazing. Though he is using his MILITARY to defend against civilians. Do we really need to risk our own peoples lives when we can do it from a distance with no problem.
[/quote]



You gotta be kidding, right?


If you think the Libyan army is running a SO without direct instruction of a leader who refers to himself as "colonel" you are just making excuses for the sake of excuses alone. You must be spending way too much time watching Jessie Ventura these days!




For the most part O/T, but still..... I am enjoying the fact that Obama is cleaning the outhouse tank for the UK, France, and Italy in the Libyan "kinetic military action"-but is so far getting the hose-job on an invite to the Royal Wedding. Guess he should have done better than DVDs that wouldn't play in the UK, or an iPod full of his own speeches. One good snubbing deserves another.






While we are making excuses for the inept. PEBO said we have a duty to provide protection to civilians, and that bound us to do something in Libya - so where the fuck is he in the Wednesday machete murders of around a thousand people in a single town in the Ivory Coast? The windmiller-in-chief is no where to be found.

[Allstar]

You can say all you want. You seem pretty clueless to how things work overseas. I am guessing you haven't spent to much time in any of the countries you are talking about, have you? You don't understand how they do business. Most people in these countries are willing to fight for the Highest Payer. Honestly when I am out in the field, I carry $500 on me. Because if I get separated from my team, that is what it will cost to keep me safe. I have seen guys caught on an op, decided to turn source for us for $300 a month. They all go to the highest bidder. But I will gladly leave you to your thoughts, you yell louder with more references to what you think the media is giving you is the truth or what inside information you think you have. Truth is, until you are there or reading the reports you will never truly know the truth.

[mustafabey]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1301809157' post='503967']
[quote name='Allstar' timestamp='1301652847' post='503759']
Libyan troops sent into Chad to overthrow gov't (military actions)

Libyan bombing of Omburdman, Sudan, in an attempt to destabilize the area. (military action)

Mid 80's Libya placed anti-ship mines in Red Sea in an attempt to interfere with merchant maritime industry. (military action)

1983(?) Shots from inside Libyan gov't building in UK kill a Britich police officer. (possible terrorist)

1985ish, Libyann coordinated machine-gun & planned bombing attacks in Rome, and Vienna airports. (terrorist)

1986 Libyan military spec ops units bomb a US military frequented night club in Berlin. (military action)

1986/87, USN splashes a few libyan jets, and sinks a libyan frigate when they challenged US craft in international waters. (US military action)

1988 Pan Am Flt 103 bombed by libyan operative, with libyan planning, and funding. (terrorist)

1989 French UTA flight 772 bombed, Libyan planned, funded, and operatives. (terrorist)

1990ish, IDF captures arms, and personnel trained in Libya, being smuggled into Israel. (terrorist)

mid 90-ish Germany catches illegal export attempt of equipment intended to manufacture B/C weapons. (idk)

2002- Al Quada, a naturalized American, and Libyan gov't conspire to assassinate Crown Prince Abdullah S.A. and US agencies destroy the plan. (terrorist)

Libyan military trains/equips members of M-19, Japanese Red Army, and IRA along with a load more I can't remember. (military action)

I am sure there are a few I can't remember right now, and I likely got some of the dates wrong.

Ok and which of these were signed off by Qaddafi. I never said there weren't terrorist in Libya. Hell there are terrorist in America, does mean people should go to war with us. There isn't a single country in the world that don't have terrorist organizations. Now if he was using Al Queada, Taliban, HIG or any other group to do the fighting, that would be perfect grounds to run in there guns blazing. Though he is using his MILITARY to defend against civilians. Do we really need to risk our own peoples lives when we can do it from a distance with no problem.
[/quote]



You gotta be kidding, right?


If you think the Libyan army is running a SO without direct instruction of a leader who refers to himself as "colonel" you are just making excuses for the sake of excuses alone. You must be spending way too much time watching Jessie Ventura these days!




For the most part O/T, but still..... I am enjoying the fact that Obama is cleaning the outhouse tank for the UK, France, and Italy in the Libyan "kinetic military action"-but is so far getting the hose-job on an invite to the Royal Wedding. Guess he should have done better than DVDs that wouldn't play in the UK, or an iPod full of his own speeches. One good snubbing deserves another.






While we are making excuses for the inept. PEBO said we have a duty to provide protection to civilians, and that bound us to do something in Libya - so where the fuck is he in the Wednesday machete murders of around a thousand people in a single town in the Ivory Coast? The windmiller-in-chief is no where to be found.











[/quote]

Tell me,Scotty,besides an excuse to rail against your favorite President,what would you do regarding the Libyan situation? I realize that supporting the rebels is a gamble and Obama seems to be trying, as he usually does,to be all things to all people.I wonder if America has the stomach or the money for a three front war,but I feel,if you're going in there to a job then do the whole job. Half assed is only going to give half assed results. I am very confused on this issue. Qaddafi is surely another Saddam Hussein type,no question about that. Who are the Libyan rebels? We really don't have a clue. Do we remember what happened in Afghanistan in the 80's.Shit, we just about created and armed the Taliban and al Qaeda. As you said, people are getting killed in Cote de Ivoire,but we ignore that. We ignored the genocide in Darfur. Maybe cocoa and camels are not quite the motivator that petroleum is,or perhaps,as Rush Limbaugh said(without,of course acknowledging that his comment applies to both the right and the left) this whole affair has to be viewed thru the lens of the 2012 election. Bottom line is that nobody really gives a shit about the Libyan people. Europe is in this not for any great love for American Islamophobia,but because Libya is theri gas pump. Only time will tell if Obama's strategy is genius or epic fail.
By the way Allstar, I can understand some of what you say,having had some those kind of experiences in South Vietnam. However, although I don't know the situation on the ground in the Middle East I would bet that there is a small group of people out there who can't be bought for money,ideology having a grip on their souls.Then there are those who take your money and take the oppositions money at the same time. In S.E.Asia there was alot of motivation by survival and greed. I wouldn't suppose for a minute that buying off an Afghan warlord really is going to give you your moneys worth in the end.

[Hippo_Master]

I think you need to just get over the outcome of the last Presidential election. Obama's term is almost fucking over, people have been whining about it for three years. You can have you pick of any of the retarded Tea Baggers, Anarchists, or Religious Rite Zealots in 2012.

There's no right way to do anything in Libya - just send the Special forces in (because it's what they are payed to do), do whatever, leave, then let it handle itself. It's not Obama's fault the Arab World finally realized that it sucks living in the Arab World, and it wouldn't be McCain's fault either (if he didn't have Palin on his ticket).