I Am In Legal Trouble....help?

[vendetta_revived]

Okay, so it's not me who is in legal trouble, but a friend of mine who lives in UK. I say it's me because this person, is in a lot of ways more important to me than myself. She is my most dearest friend, and a person who stood for me and went through a lot of crap when my own family was against me and I was suicidal (made an attempt).

So here is the deal, she just got divorced and now is due in court next week for the financial settlement and custody of kids who have been living with her since her ex husband moved out around 2 years back and want to live with her, and she too can't live without her kids, 3 of them aged 16,13 and 7.

She had been telling me for the past month or so that she needs to fill her legal aid form and can't do it because it needs loads of concentration and she is completely immersed in her studies and working her assignments and needs to do them good because she didn't get good marks in the previous ones (She is a 2nd year psychology student), today she tells me that she is due in court next week and the solicitor can't represent her because she didn't fill the form and now she needs to represent herself. - I don't like the sound of that.

I don't know whether it is of any importance to share here but she was forcibly married off when she was 15 by her parents, and her ex husband was 30 at the time (So a possible pedophile? My friend was pregnant at 16), she lived like a slave for 15 years and faced a lot of abuse, and now I really really want her ex husband to pay for the shit he did to her, and I don't know if that will happen if she doesn't have a lawyer representing her? She may even lose the house? I don't know and I'm ridiculously upset and stressed right now, I don't know law so I can't advise her on it and while I am calling up people to inquire, they all would only know the laws here in India and my friend as I mentioned lives in UK.

I am looking on the internet and everything but I just thought I'd ask here too and may be someone can tell me that will make my day. Anyone has any opinions?

[mushrat]

Tell her to fill out the DAMN forms if its that important to her.

Second, I don't know about the UK but in the us you can ask for a continuance (delay) in a hearing until a later date. See if she can go in and get the case continued until she can get her priorities straight, get the form filled out to keep her kids, and get a proper Solicitor.

[ezxen]

[quote name='mushrat' timestamp='1301841292' post='503989']
Tell her to fill out the DAMN forms if its that important to her.

Second, I don't know about the UK but in the us you can ask for a continuance (delay) in a hearing until a later date. See if she can go in and get the case continued until she can get her priorities straight, get the form filled out to keep her kids, and get a proper Solicitor.
[/quote]
What mush said.

Statistically women are something like 70% likelier to be granted custody of children over men. And form the sounds of it she has a really good case. hope for a female judge.

[vendetta_revived]

Thanks guys.

I just got off the phone with her, she has filled the forms and will deposit them first thing in the morning tomorrow, but she said her solicitor tried to delay the hearing but her ex husband's solicitor didn't approve of it? Can they do that? Isn't there a work around to it?

[magick777]

I don't know the ins and outs of the legal aid setup, but, if she does not have proper representation then she should certainly be able to ask them to delay proceedings. It would behove her to come up with a compelling reason/play up the mental health angle as to why she did not submit the form in a timely fashion, but, she need only draw on a few examples of being a single mum to three kids to explain that one. The courts here favour the mother, they favour keeping families together and favour the status quo. She is most unlikely to be forced to sell the house unless it's massively bigger or more expensive than what she needs to live in; as a single man he is easier to rehouse than her and three kids.

In terms of the financials, I don't know what they'll do about dividing any capital, but they're not about to throw her and three kids out on the street. In terms of income, if hs is working then he will be obliged to contribute a total of 25% of his income which will be divided between as many children as he has, including any from current or prior relationships. This is all managed by the notoriously inefficient Child Support Agency.

In terms of custody, they're staying with the mother unless she is genuinely unfit - and a few mental health issues don't make her so. Unless she is actually behaving in a way that is a demonstrated and documented risk to the children, he does not have a strong case for custody two years down the line. A friend of a friend did take over custody of his three year old son after the alcoholic mother left the child unattended multiple times, but, it's got to be that bad before they're likely to take the kids off her.

In terms of contact, the court will look at 1) what the children say they want and 2) the status quo. If there has been a history of no contact, he will need a good reason for the court to order otherwise, if he wants more. If there has been a history of regular amiable contact, she would need a good reason to ask the court to order otherwise if she wants less. In the situation that the children want contact but she feels unable to deal with someone who was abusive to her, she can ask that any contact be arranged through a contact centre rather than forcing her to visit his home, or him to visit hers. However it is IMPERATIVE that she and her solicitor represent to the court what it is that she wants and why; the court will not make an order for which it does not understand the need. Therefore, she would do well to set down on paper what has been OK about the last two years since he moved out, and what she would want to ask the court to change...

[vendetta_revived]

Well she is a single mum with 3 kids and also, her mother had a surgery 2 weeks ago and she has been taking care of her since. Thanks a LOT for replying man! She is very decisive on what she wants, and she has been talking to this solicitor for the whole last year, and she is fine mentally, been doing very good after he moved out, that is when she enrolled in college, completed it and enrolled into the university for psychology and now she has a fun personality without all the crap that she had earlier.

Really thanks a ton for taking time to reply to my question because I really want to help her out on this, I am a bit unclear though, as to how is she supposed to get the hearing delayed ? Does it have to be done before the hearing? Because as I said her solicitor failed in trying to do, or does she walk in at the hearing and then request to postpone it?

Thanks again, any help is greatly appreciated. Edited April 4, 2011 by cotsi95

[magick777]

I am not sure of the correct answer here; she would do well to contact the Court in question and ask them how it works.

However, to the best of my knowledge, and unless she gets it in writing to the contrary:

1) unless it has been successfully re-arranged, the hearing will take place whether she attends it or not; it would prejudice her not to attend
2) she cannot demand that the hearing be postponed, but she can ask the judge for leave to lodge a late answer to the divorce petition.
3) if she makes a good case, such leave is likely to be granted and the hearing adjourned

With that being said, she is only likely to get Legal Aid in defending herself against an application for a Residency Order, a frivolous Contact Order, or other proceeding that is directly detrimental to her or the kids. She [b]will not[/b] get Legal Aid to contest the divorce itself - a pointless exercise in determining who's more wrong than whom - so if her request to file a late response comes with unrealistic expectations in terms of Legal Aid, they might be unsympathetic.

Only things I can suggest are see if she can get an urgent appt. with the Citizens Advice Bureau and/or the Community Legal Aid Service prior to the hearing. Their advice is better than mine. Failing that, she would do well to set out a brief written statement for the Court, stating what she is or is not contesting, the difficulties that she has had in obtaining legal representation and preparing a response to the petition, what she is doing about it now, etc.

She needs to know what she is dealing with - what [b]is[/b] he petitioning for? A majority of divorce cases are settled amicably and the court will be loath to make contact arrangements unless there is clear indication that it has to.

[vendetta_revived]

Well she does qualify for the legal aid, just too stupid to not have filled the forms when needed. Thanks again for explaining in detail, I'll ask her to contact the court and see how she should go about it.

Also I will tell her to get an appt. with the Citizens advice bureau and the Community legal aid service and ask for their advice. Your help is greatly appreciated mate, thanks a lot!

[Coyote]

What type of help has she gotten for the abuse? Many times women will deny the abuse or the severity of the abuse. We will say that it didn't happen or that we deserved it (if I hadn't done ___ he wouldn't have ___) or that it was we who were doing the abusing. Simply being out of the situation does not heal the situation.

[vendetta_revived]

No she is not denying the abuse, though it takes a lot for her to be able to talk freely about it. Her solicitor is aware of everything though, so I won't worry as long as she is able to get the hearing adjourned and have him represent her.

She has been seeing a psychologist for the past 6 months or so.

[flydigital55]

I'm a California Dad who was able to win full custody of his son. It wasn't easy. But mostly because I am the Dad and most assume I am a deadbeat, especially judges. It only cost me $22,000 in legal representation fees and about 10 hours a day work for 3 years. And it only was possible after the mom had been arrested on several charges and then subsequently failed to appear in court for several of the custody hearings.

I just want to say, a Mom doesn't have to work too hard to get custody here in the US anyway. I wouldn't imagine its much different in UK. The popular opinion seems to be, that the child is best with the mom, no matter what. Even if the child is in obvious immediate danger! Many judges are really blind, they will not even bother to consider that child may be better with the dad regardless of evidence. Not all, just most. In my case, my kid would probably be dead right now if things didn't work out the way they had. And to this day I know most of the judges handling the case would rather that be so, than the child to be in "deadbeat dad"'s custody.

So your friend should thank her lucky stars that favor is in her court, get her act together and be a good parent, for the children's sake.

[vendetta_revived]

Thanks flydigital. I have known her for many years now and she is a wonderful parent, infact it was being a parent that kept her from killing herself when she used to face physical and mental abuse on a daily basis. And the dad probably doesn't want contact imo, he is a sexist dad as far as I know, even know he only takes his 7 year old son out and doesn't even bother asking how his 2 daughters are. I am not a dad so I don't know how it feels like. but personally I have never seen a more detached father. He doesn't even pay any child support for now - that in my eyes look like he can't be any less bothered about how his kids live.

She has filled the forms and submitted them for now, we are hoping that she will be able to get the hearing adjourned on the day she is due in court. That is the advice I have got from some of the uk law forums I joined for help.

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='mushrat' timestamp='1301841292' post='503989']
Tell her to fill out the DAMN forms if its that important to her.

Second, I don't know about the UK but in the us you can ask for a continuance (delay) in a hearing until a later date. See if she can go in and get the case continued until she can get her priorities straight, get the form filled out to keep her kids, and get a proper Solicitor.
[/quote]


No shite!

Saying you didn't have time/concentration, or whatever BS excuse a person comes up with is not going to be viewed as due diligence. There has to be a reason for a continuance... My kids and classes were distracting me is going to not be a successful motion for a continuance. If he has a lawyer, she has a problem, a big problem. Both sides have the right to a hearing in a reasonable time, and manner. There is a good chance the Magistrate will view any "I don't have time" as at least an affront, and possibly contemptuous behavior.

Simply put-don't honk off the Magistrate before he signs the order. He has the legal right to take behavior before the court into consideration in his decision.

[i] [/i]I can hear that pleading now:
"hello honorable magistrate, I want a continuance because I didn't think this was important enough to make time to properly handle. I really don't think this court has any meaning, or esteem, and I wnt you to make everyone else come back later because I was lazy. I really love my kids, and I want to demonstrate it to the court by not completing any of the criteria set forth to provide legal protection for them." Ya, that is going to work.

Is this a petition for decree nisi, or absolute? There is allot more room for flailing about in a nisi petition... but then one would not really need a solicitor for such.

If it's an absolute petition, time to skip the free legal aid, and pony the pounds for a real solicitor.

It has been years since I lived there, but before, generally the HMcourts stay out of custody, other than how the "adults" initiate any contact with each other, and ancillary agreements over support. Usually custody gets sent to a court specialized to deal with it.

She didn't sign any contract binding her to a sharia court, did she? If so, time to hop a flight out of UK jurisdiction, Women can not win in that court-period

[vendetta_revived]

What can I say? I kept asking the woman to fill the damn forms but she was adamant about doing her assignments first since she had maintained a 2:1 grade all this while and was worried that her previous 2 were gonna bring it down to 2:2. I hear ya about the court seeing this as a contempt and not wanting to entertain her request for an adjournment.

Well I did force her to make an appointment with the solicitor and he helped her to fill and deposit the forms....she is due tomorrow....let's see what happens.

[Coyote]

So how did it go?

[vendetta_revived]

Oh I forgot to update you guys! On thursday evening, somehow the other side too asked for an adjournment, so now the hearing will be next month. Thanks all for your help!