Budget And Debt Crisis

[mustafabey]

Been away for awhile with health issues, good to be back and start another great debate. What's up here?OK we are in deep doo doo, true. Democrats can't seem to see spending needs to be cut,they'd rather increase the debt ceiling. Of course we have to service these loans,which takes a huge amount out the budget,which could be used on other things. Bill Clinton left a surplus, Bush spent like a democrat,with tax cuts for the wealthy and unpaid wars and nation building he never expected to get into. Obama's spending has been equally irresponsible.The GOP seems to think we need to pay for all these cuts by cutting services to our citizens.Prompted by a growing Tea party contingent,the call for cuts in social security,medicaid and medicare and a host of other similar programs for the aging and low income families. All that is on the table for the GOP, what is not on the table is tax increases for the wealthy. That seems to be the centerpiece of their Path to Prosperity outline. Whose prosperity,you may ask? The prosperity of the wealthy.Meanwhile ultra libs seem to think we can fund anything and everything they think must be done. 1 1/2 weeks on the PTSD ward of my local VA hospital made me realize just how much expense the Veterans Affairs dept spends.(These guys,by the way are awesome and deserve all the funds they get)
Listening to the Prophet of Doom, Glenn Beck on the way back from the hospital made me think abit. He is selling sympathy for the poor downtrodden rich,making unions into Marxist/Muslim conspiracies( ridiculous because Muslims believe deeply in God and Marxists are atheists) and predicting that George Soros and his gang want to collapse the economy and plummet us into the depths of socialist evil. What of the Koch brothers,funders of the Tea Party,whats their vision of fascist uptopia?
Anyway if we don't increase the debt ceiling by May 16th, we will default on our loans and that will cause the market to drop like it did in '08. Meanwhile back at the ranch,gas prices soar to $4.How long can the people of America be bamboozled by the political thugs in DC.If I listen to the GOP, I will be surviving on cat food,if I listen to the Dems,our whole budget will be servicing debt,again the cat food options surface.Well Fancy Feast has all those "gourmet flavors", so I can put it in a Crystal dish,buy a shitty wig and pretend that I am The Donald!

[Chreees]

We're all fucked.

That's all I can say.

[MichaelLCP]

[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1302729919' post='505330']
We're all fucked.

That's all I can say.
[/quote]

agreed.

[Chreees]

But wait, I've an idea!

How about we take away their guaranteed pay (meaning if the gov. DOES shutdown, they no longer get paid)? Also, cut their ridiculous pay so that way not so many of them are in it for the money. What would happen if we did this? The crooks could be replaced by those who actually give a damn about our country AND its people. They would work harder to get along and compromise to avoid such things as a gov. shutdown, because they would want to keep their pay!

Also, I saw someone on another thread mention that we need to do away with lobbying... I agree. Lobbying is nothing but a form of bribery.

ALSO, do away with companies and people being able to give money to politicians for their campaigns.

I swear, this country has gotten so gorramridiculous it's made me want to move as far away from this disgrace of a nation.

[Stuie]

I take simple approach to this method.

If i found myself in severe debt, which at one point I was drowning in it. To get out of it, I did 2 things

1) Cut my budget to the minimum I needed, through everything else at debt, paying off the smallest debt first and snowballing it to the larger one. It's a mental accomplishment thing (Good PR for the government)

2) Work my ass off doing side work, bringing in more income


Translate to the government

1) CUT THE F@#)( BUDGET. Drop of foreign aid, or welfare or social security, something... enough to reduce the budget by 25-50%

2) Stop all tax incentives for large businesses while keeping the small business exemptions in place as they generate 75% of the work force and help create more revenue via income tax. Reduce pensions and health care for all representatives.

See what happens when the give the government a certain amount of money....They will never take less again....

[noodle]

3) Get rid of those laws that encourage companies to outsource jobs to outside the US.

[TheScotsman]

debt=too much spending

not being in debt=not spending on credit. It really doesn't seem like a hard concept. At least not until you realize it has been mathematically impossible to pay off the national debt for many years now. It can not be done, no way, no how... it's a bit like attaining the speed of light in a rowboat. If we taxed the "rich" (250K/yr) at 120% it wouldn't make up for the yearly deficit alone, to say nothing of the national debt. There s no way to "tax" our way out.




Clinton sailed on a surplus resulting from the peace dividend. The cold war ended, and military spending was dropping. Coupled with major changes in the welfare entitlement, and there was prosperity in the business community, not to mention the beginning of the realestate bubble. It was nothing Clinton did... except to keep his hands on the-er, Cigar - and off the economy. It was not a result of some magic-clinton juju.




Think it's bad now, wait until BRICS makes their move to a bricks-basket currency. Then we are truly screwed. We haven't sen anything yet. The initial agreement was settled today-Hey, anyone see any coverage on CommieNewsNetwork, or the G.E. Owned NBC? Hmmmmm me either. In the end, very soon the fed looses the ability to manipulate values, and we go down like the third world country we really have become. Raising the limit only prolongs the death, and makes any recovery farther from possible. The end is inevitable, and unavoidable at this point-the rest of the world seems to have figured it out, why can't we?




outsourcing is the reality of a world economy. If an American business can't compete, it will die. That is all there is to it, that fact isn't going to change. Suck it up, and learn to deal with it. The real shame is that with our overly regulatory, invasive, high-taxing gov't there is no reason for a business not to bail for foreign shores. No matter how much union bluster, and foot stomping that happens, it's still going to be that way, likely for the rest of our lifetimes. I don't see any change to that pattern. In a world economy, you can't force a business to do anyting except to force them to leave a country. If you want the to do something, it has to be rewarded and enticed. No gov't in the USA, at any level has figured that out. Tax the crap out of the people with money and just like business, it leaves, harass the crap out of them with excessive regs, it leaves; Then you don't have any jobs, money, welfare, pensions, taxes, entitlements, no anything except a bunch of whiney-ass people who think the world still gives a crap what they think. All we need to fix it is to let an ass-load of people into the country who have no vested interest in it's success, and no interest in assimilating into the culture of the nation. Wait-we are there already, Damn-Carry on then.




Speaking of fecked. How do you Like the 25cent-ish/gal fuel tax addition obummer has proposed? Like we aren't getting raped enough for fuel. I bet another quarter a gal is going to inspire the economy. WHat was it he said before the election??? Wait, I remember, under his energy policy, prices would necissarly skyrocket. Well, that is the only promise he kept. Hope he is better at adding up all those quarters than he was doing the math on his "budget" proposal-That bugger doesn't add up at all. I'm liking all this respect that the NObama promised the rest of the world would feel for the USA once he was elected. How did people fall for that bullshite? It seems whenever there is any hint at just freezing spending at a prior years amount we see a bunch of (usually) prog-liberals making up some sob-story fakaganda BS about starving kids, or making granny live in a chicken coop. The numbers we see from the gov't on everything from budgets and healthcare to unemployment are all ginned-up "mystamathical" creations with no basis in fact-yet no one questions them, Even though their claims are blatantly BS, the media treats it like a fact sent from Mt Ararat on a marble tablet.




Yep-We are screwed,

Liking all the hope & change yet? Don't blame me, I didn't vote for him.

[Rani]

First read this.....

[url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110415/ts_yblog_thelookout/closer-look-lead-codices-spending-cuts-and-the-deficit-problem"]http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110415/ts_yblog_thelookout/closer-look-lead-codices-spending-cuts-and-the-deficit-problem[/url]

Now..... for my typical citizen's opinion......... If I came across a terrorist with a backpack bomb coming across the border, I'd give him a map and a GPS locked on Washington DC. (Yes, Secret Service surfing the internet looking for conspiracies, that was actually a joke based on frustration.) We need to recall the entire US electorate. Every damned one of them from the most junior senator to the President and every body in between. Every Democrat, every Republican, every Independent, Green Party, Peace and Freedom, every single damned one of them. Because our entire system is so totally fucked up that unless we wipe the slate clean and start over, we're doomed.

Very few of us here are old enough to remember what it used to be like. Yes, there was definitely corruption, but not on the wholesale level it is today. It's like all logic has entirely fled the country. And we can do like Scotsman and blame this president or even that president from the past, and the truth is, they're all in it together. There are no real difference between them. It's all show and tell, smoke and mirrors. And quite honestly, they've sold us down the river. Decades ago.

Did you hear they're going to give big tax breaks to big business? The GOP claims this will build jobs. Yep, sure will...... Overseas. It takes major money to move your factories overseas. Sure you recoup it in labor eventually, but let's take China for example. Want to do business in China? You will build a factory. You will employ Chinese as X% of your management team and 100% of your labor. You will guarantee all those jobs and all that business. So it takes all this money to ship your business overseas, it's prohibitive up front to have to come up with all that money. So what does our Federal government do? Give them more money to make it easier. "Well, stockholders, we were going to have to put the China expansion off until 2025, but thanks to taxes going down again, we can do it next year! Woo-hoo! More options anybody?"

Everybody knows we need to cut spending. But when you have to cut your household budget as Stuie said, you don't cut food and shelter and emergency medical treatment. You cut movie night, and jewelry, and vacations, and anything not necessary to your survival. But our government wants to cut food and shelter. At least 25% of our country barely survived the recession because of those social programs some people like to think are used only by deadbeats and lazy people. We have homeless children in this country for God's sake! Arguably the richest country in the world still, and we have children living on the street and in shelters and we want to cut the funding that keeps them alive. But foreign aid will continue, won't it? We give billions away for foreign aid and our government justifies it by claiming it helps our position in the world. No, it doesn't. Nobody out there is helping us. They're just playing along and taking the money until they reach the impasse where they really have to start putting out and then they all smile and tell us to go fuck ourselves. They don't care about our best interests, they're taking care of their own interests - we're just financing it! And when the terrorists step in and pick up weapons, nobody remember those are the weapons we paid for. We bought them for the "friendly regime" that used to be before they told us to go fuck ourselves!

We don't need to cut Social Security, or Medicare, or any other social program keeping our own people alive if we would just take care of ourselves [u]first[/u]. We're supposed to take care of each other. Our very nation was founded and built on us taking care of each other. And we're going to abandon that principle to send more money to the other guys? How unbelievably stupid is that? And it just keeps getting worse it seems every time there's another announcement from Washington.

If you are under 30 years old right now, there's a very good chance that within your lifetime, you're going to see the end of the United States. If you have teenagers, it's virtually guaranteed that they will not live in a United States of America. You young'uns think it's bad, we old folk know just how really terrible it is. Much much worse than you think. Because we remember back to what we were supposed to be. When we at least tried to live up to our principles and honor our integrity. When we did take care of our country and each other first. Now it's nothing but smoke and mirrors. No substance, not honor, no unity, no hope.

If I win the lottery, I'm expatriating before the check clears the bank. Because there's only one word left for this country......... FUBAR.

'Rani

[TheScotsman]

Quoting the washington monthly editor? Good grief, why not just quote the DNC platform, or "the modern progressive"...

A magazine that biases/openly lies about stats is not a source-unless you are looking for a source of propaganda

[Rani]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1302990618' post='505672']
Quoting the washington monthly editor? Good grief, why not just quote the DNC platform, or "the modern progressive"...

A magazine that biases/openly lies about stats is not a source-unless you are looking for a source of propaganda
[/quote]

Scotsman, it's ALL propaganda. Whether it comes out of a paper, the television, radio, magazine, etc. And if it comes out of Washington, it's twice as suspect. That would be the entire point. Remember the old saying: "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull." Ain't nothing but bull out there anymore.

'Rani

[nun]

[b]The U.S. is providing Israel with at least $8.2 million each day.[/b]
Don't bother bullying me calling me anti semite because i don't hate arabs or ethiopians

[Chreees]

[quote name='nun' timestamp='1302998524' post='505688']
[b]The U.S. is providing Israel with at least $8.2 million each day.[/b]
Don't bother bullying me calling me anti semite because i don't hate arabs or ethiopians
[/quote]

Why do most of your posts have something to say about Israel? Is the site in your sig your site?

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1302996338' post='505683']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1302990618' post='505672']
Quoting the washington monthly editor? Good grief, why not just quote the DNC platform, or "the modern progressive"...

A magazine that biases/openly lies about stats is not a source-unless you are looking for a source of propaganda
[/quote]

Scotsman, it's ALL propaganda. Whether it comes out of a paper, the television, radio, magazine, etc. And if it comes out of Washington, it's twice as suspect. That would be the entire point. Remember the old saying: "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull." Ain't nothing but bull out there anymore.

'Rani
[/quote]


Bingo...

That was my point. Every time I read anything, and then dig through the author's past, I find an activist. Be it right, or left, an activist will always skew a story, if not outright lie about damn near everything.



As for Aid it Israel.... that means the increases obummer added to the deficite in one year would equal the aid we send to Israel for the next 964.5 years. Damn near a millennium-almost to the year 3000. Hey, thanks for putting that into prospective for us. The point is silly, and irrelevant, but the comparison is great. By the wqy, we send 4.1 Bn/day to Egypt, or did you forget that. In the end we send an amount nearly equal to the muslim nations as Israel. Cut the terrorists off first, then the people that want to kill us befre we cut off an ally.

[Rani]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1303003942' post='505692']
[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1302996338' post='505683']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1302990618' post='505672']
Quoting the washington monthly editor? Good grief, why not just quote the DNC platform, or "the modern progressive"...

A magazine that biases/openly lies about stats is not a source-unless you are looking for a source of propaganda
[/quote]

Scotsman, it's ALL propaganda. Whether it comes out of a paper, the television, radio, magazine, etc. And if it comes out of Washington, it's twice as suspect. That would be the entire point. Remember the old saying: "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull." Ain't nothing but bull out there anymore.

'Rani
[/quote]


Bingo...

That was my point. Every time I read anything, and then dig through the author's past, I find an activist. Be it right, or left, an activist will always skew a story, if not outright lie about damn near everything.



As for Aid it Israel.... that means the increases obummer added to the deficite in one year would equal the aid we send to Israel for the next 964.5 years. Damn near a millennium-almost to the year 3000. Hey, thanks for putting that into prospective for us. The point is silly, and irrelevant, but the comparison is great. By the wqy, we send 4.1 Bn/day to Egypt, or did you forget that. In the end we send an amount nearly equal to the muslim nations as Israel. Cut the terrorists off first, then the people that want to kill us befre we cut off an ally.
[/quote]

Ally? You think Israel is an ally? Israel is no different from any other nation. They are out for their own interests. The fact that we finance it is gravy. Push comes to shove the only side they're on is their own. Quite frankly, as it should be. They take care of their own people first and foremost. Pity the US doesn't know to do that. Instead we're going to gut the middle class and send billions out of the country.

'Rani

[mustafabey]

We are all fucked?? Is that really true? No we still have the right to vote. Trouble is most of candidates are bought off by special interests. Even President Obama had to see Ruppert Murdoch(in deep shit in England) even though at first he balked.Murdoch is Fox news. In Britain he has just about succeeded to monopolize media. What we have to do is take back America from big biz,Wall st and the fundamenalist churches,etc. Take America back from special interests. It can be done, Obama did it,but then he sold out to Goldman Sachs and others. It requires organization on the local level. Endorse candidates who will end lobbying, who will end unlimited corporate contributions to candidates. Elect candidates who will preserve social programs and cutting spending on wars,foreign aid and subsidies. End pork. I could go on, you get the idea. If you keep saying.oh we are fucked then you will truly be fucked. America doesn't have to end, but YOU need to do something about it. The right has a popular political conscience, but they will continue to to make America a Comedy State with the likes of ticket like Donald Trump/Sarah Palin. They are fueled by hate. Unreasonable hate. The communist governmental systems proved unviable, they failed. Yet the talk radio gang keeps railing on about Commies. Why? Because many of us have lived with a cold war and the Commie hate begun by Joe McCarthy. They are but ghosts.As for the monolithic threat of Islam, that to is a myth. There are at least as many variations of Islam as there are Christian sects. Al Qaeda is simply a version of the Westboro church and Osama is like Terry Jones,but more successful in the spreading of his hate. Hate never solved anything. Fear is only a ploy to scare you into doing someones bidding. Listen to Glenn Beck trying to tell you that Hamas or Hizbullah( he can't seem to make up his mind on which one it is) is teaming up with the Mexicans to invade America. People believe this hogwash. Just keep telling the white people that the Blacks, the Mexicans and the Muslims that they are going take over and you've got the fuel to enpower the most ignorant amongst us. The fact that people can actually believe that rich need tax cuts and the poor need cuts in services is the supreme idiocy. There I've had my rant.

[poncho]

Hey, I never post in politics discussions because I'm not too familiar with them to really say any worth while, but reading through this and assuming that you all are all quite a bit older than me, (im 22) I think it'll be valuable to hear another approach.

I don't follow politics, read the news, check the new sites, read the NY Times, wall street or anything like that, the only real political info I get is from these types of discussions on this forum. And while I assume you guys are quite knowledge on the tops your discussing, I always read it with a grain of salt because there's no way i can base an educated opinion off of unverified facts. So from reading this today, my end conclusion is that government has failed us, the system is super corrupt, we can never pay our debt back, and the USA will fail and we are all totally fucked.

As a 22 year old of course I read this and think "Jesus fucking christ, i'm young as shit, i've done nothing exciting with my life yet, and the whole thing is a fucking diaster, WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING ON!" -- and I must say that I was not born to be FUCKED, im not going to be FUCKED by the government, and quite frankly I've always thought the government was out to FUCK me.

As a result of my deep desire to succeed and fulfill my dreams that I have set long ago for my future, as the older folk and ancestors of my generation had the privileged of doing, I want to say that the goverment will not fuck me and will not make the rest of my life miserable.

Don't give up on us younger generation, we have good ideas, and I think will be very powerful, because we all have big goals and have realized the whole time growing up that the government was a mess and would fuck us. And I think that brings us together, even if it doesn't show yet, at some point hopefully before it gets to bad I see this mess getting turned around, maybe we get back into a system that the people do things for the people and with the people, instead of everything for themselves.

[Rani]

[quote name='poncho' timestamp='1303064787' post='505789']
Hey, I never post in politics discussions because I'm not too familiar with them to really say any worth while, but reading through this and assuming that you all are all quite a bit older than me, (im 22) I think it'll be valuable to hear another approach.

I don't follow politics, read the news, check the new sites, read the NY Times, wall street or anything like that, the only real political info I get is from these types of discussions on this forum. And while I assume you guys are quite knowledge on the tops your discussing, I always read it with a grain of salt because there's no way i can base an educated opinion off of unverified facts. So from reading this today, my end conclusion is that government has failed us, the system is super corrupt, we can never pay our debt back, and the USA will fail and we are all totally fucked.

As a 22 year old of course I read this and think "Jesus fucking christ, i'm young as shit, i've done nothing exciting with my life yet, and the whole thing is a fucking diaster, WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING ON!" -- and I must say that I was not born to be FUCKED, im not going to be FUCKED by the government, and quite frankly I've always thought the government was out to FUCK me.

As a result of my deep desire to succeed and fulfill my dreams that I have set long ago for my future, as the older folk and ancestors of my generation had the privileged of doing, I want to say that the goverment will not fuck me and will not make the rest of my life miserable.

Don't give up on us younger generation, we have good ideas, and I think will be very powerful, because we all have big goals and have realized the whole time growing up that the government was a mess and would fuck us. And I think that brings us together, even if it doesn't show yet, at some point hopefully before it gets to bad I see this mess getting turned around, maybe we get back into a system that the people do things for the people and with the people, instead of everything for themselves.
[/quote]

That is the first truly hopeful statement I've heard in a [u]very[/u] long time. If your generation can turn it around, the next four or five will not only be grateful, but have a chance. My gut instinct tells me we're at some kind of tipping point where it could go either way. Right now it's definitely sliding towards the robber barons, but I don't know that it's completely unrecoverable. But I do know that if something isn't done, and quickly it will definitely go so far in that direction only a complete and bloody revolution can reset it. And since the robber barons are now globalists the sheer odds against pulling off an entire world revolution stack the odds decidedly in their favor.

'Rani

[mustafabey]

[quote name='poncho' timestamp='1303064787' post='505789']
Hey, I never post in politics discussions because I'm not too familiar with them to really say any worth while, but reading through this and assuming that you all are all quite a bit older than me, (im 22) I think it'll be valuable to hear another approach.

I don't follow politics, read the news, check the new sites, read the NY Times, wall street or anything like that, the only real political info I get is from these types of discussions on this forum. And while I assume you guys are quite knowledge on the tops your discussing, I always read it with a grain of salt because there's no way i can base an educated opinion off of unverified facts. So from reading this today, my end conclusion is that government has failed us, the system is super corrupt, we can never pay our debt back, and the USA will fail and we are all totally fucked.

As a 22 year old of course I read this and think "Jesus fucking christ, i'm young as shit, i've done nothing exciting with my life yet, and the whole thing is a fucking diaster, WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING ON!" -- and I must say that I was not born to be FUCKED, im not going to be FUCKED by the government, and quite frankly I've always thought the government was out to FUCK me.

As a result of my deep desire to succeed and fulfill my dreams that I have set long ago for my future, as the older folk and ancestors of my generation had the privileged of doing, I want to say that the goverment will not fuck me and will not make the rest of my life miserable.

Don't give up on us younger generation, we have good ideas, and I think will be very powerful, because we all have big goals and have realized the whole time growing up that the government was a mess and would fuck us. And I think that brings us together, even if it doesn't show yet, at some point hopefully before it gets to bad I see this mess getting turned around, maybe we get back into a system that the people do things for the people and with the people, instead of everything for themselves.
[/quote]

Well stated Poncho. I reckon I'm the grandfather around here,being 66 and a very representative person of the early baby boom. Yes,the young ones are going to inherit this mess.Change has to come or this great nation will be unrecognizable by 2025. When Eisenhower left office he made a speech about the dangers of the military industrial complex [url="http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/eisenhower-warns-us-of-the-military-industrial-complex/141b461e84e9f8b68346141b461e84e9f8b68346-774935216940?q=eisenhower+speech+military+industrial+complex&FORM=VIRE6"]Ikes speech[/url]. Here's where we went wrong,maybe,although there are many times we made bad and good decisions. But if we had listened to Ike, we might be in less shit than we are. You, the younger generations get this dumped in your lap, so where do you take it. When we were young,in the late 60's we had a dream, but what happened to it? What became of the" dawning of the age of Aquarius" We got stoned, got selfish and let others handle the nation. The opposition mounted a strong campaign for our souls and won. We sold out to consumerism and 24 hour multi channel TV. Your generation has greater temptations to surmount than ours did. Obama's campaign showed us that the spirit for still exists among the youth of America. Unfortunately he either sold out or was stymied. We didn't get the change he promised. Other people have different opinions of where this nation is headed and what we need to do to move forward. You younger folks have to make the decision as to where you stand. and what you believe in. Ignoring the situation and assuming that we are fucked isn't going to fix anything. The brave people of the Middle East got fed up with tyranny and made their voices heard.Whether they get what they want or not depends on many factors,not least of all who we throw our money at.Status quo may seem like a very secure place, but change is the constant of the universe.

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1303004204' post='505693']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1303003942' post='505692']
[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1302996338' post='505683']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1302990618' post='505672']
Quoting the washington monthly editor? Good grief, why not just quote the DNC platform, or "the modern progressive"...

A magazine that biases/openly lies about stats is not a source-unless you are looking for a source of propaganda
[/quote]

Scotsman, it's ALL propaganda. Whether it comes out of a paper, the television, radio, magazine, etc. And if it comes out of Washington, it's twice as suspect. That would be the entire point. Remember the old saying: "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull." Ain't nothing but bull out there anymore.

'Rani
[/quote]


Bingo...

That was my point. Every time I read anything, and then dig through the author's past, I find an activist. Be it right, or left, an activist will always skew a story, if not outright lie about damn near everything.



As for Aid it Israel.... that means the increases obummer added to the deficite in one year would equal the aid we send to Israel for the next 964.5 years. Damn near a millennium-almost to the year 3000. Hey, thanks for putting that into prospective for us. The point is silly, and irrelevant, but the comparison is great. By the wqy, we send 4.1 Bn/day to Egypt, or did you forget that. In the end we send an amount nearly equal to the muslim nations as Israel. Cut the terrorists off first, then the people that want to kill us befre we cut off an ally.
[/quote]

Ally? You think Israel is an ally? Israel is no different from any other nation. They are out for their own interests. The fact that we finance it is gravy. Push comes to shove the only side they're on is their own. Quite frankly, as it should be. They take care of their own people first and foremost. Pity the US doesn't know to do that. Instead we're going to gut the middle class and send billions out of the country.

'Rani
[/quote]

That is what an ally is.They are just as much of an ally as GB, or Japan, and a better ally than Germany, or France-at least as far as world politics, and mid east events go.

Need a refresher-go to google, and lookup 11 Sept 2001. Hmmm.... I see a bunch of radical muslims, the same nut-jobs that are currently running rampent in the mid east. Any ally against those people is a good ally.

Besides they have an ability to cure problems we don't want to do ourselves.

The nation has already destroyed the middle class, they really don't exist in the way they did in the 1970's... Now it's just a collection of broke-ass people living on credit (read someone else's/mainly Chinese money) beyond their means-trying to act like they have money in some pretentious display of just how great they have made it. The present middle class is made up of two groups-those scared shiteless at the reality of the situation, and those that are fools.

All foreign aid should be cut off, but let's start with any country that:
1) votes against any US interest in the UN
2) doesn't use it to support programs we OK
3) doesn't do what we tell them to... after all, it's our money. If they don't want to listen, they don't get it.
Secondly, It's too much money leaving the country, but when it comes right down to it, If you made 34K last tax year, 46$ of your tax went to foreign aid. To put it into prospective:

1000+$ went to Social Security
620 $ to Medicare
380$ to medicade
280$ to debt service
230$ to war in assgainstan and Iraq.

For that matter, some (seemingly accurate) estimates are putting the average native-head of household 1,100$+ in the red for Illegal Immigrants presently in the USA.

46$ is a pittance when compared to what we piss-away on the rest of the biggies. Worrying about foreign aid right now is a bit like the head engineer on the Titanic worried about spilling a glass of water.



Musty, you are an old bugger!!! I was picturing you more in the lat 40's (as in years not year of birth ) As far as that goes, I wouldn't want to be 20'ish again for anything. You yougng people got a bunch of work to do as a result of the crazy-ass liberal gov't spending that has occurred since... well... 1910. Now go get another job, the boomers need you to get to work to pay for their viagra.

[Chreees]

[quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1303058616' post='505776']
We are all fucked?? Is that really true? No we still have the right to vote. Trouble is most of candidates are bought off by special interests. Even President Obama had to see Ruppert Murdoch(in deep shit in England) even though at first he balked.Murdoch is Fox news. In Britain he has just about succeeded to monopolize media. What we have to do is take back America from big biz,Wall st and the fundamenalist churches,etc. Take America back from special interests. It can be done, Obama did it,but then he sold out to Goldman Sachs and others. It requires organization on the local level. Endorse candidates who will end lobbying, who will end unlimited corporate contributions to candidates. Elect candidates who will preserve social programs and cutting spending on wars,foreign aid and subsidies. End pork. I could go on, you get the idea. If you keep saying.oh we are fucked then you will truly be fucked. America doesn't have to end, but YOU need to do something about it. The right has a popular political conscience, but they will continue to to make America a Comedy State with the likes of ticket like Donald Trump/Sarah Palin. They are fueled by hate. Unreasonable hate. The communist governmental systems proved unviable, they failed. Yet the talk radio gang keeps railing on about Commies. Why? Because many of us have lived with a cold war and the Commie hate begun by Joe McCarthy. They are but ghosts.As for the monolithic threat of Islam, that to is a myth. There are at least as many variations of Islam as there are Christian sects. Al Qaeda is simply a version of the Westboro church and Osama is like Terry Jones,but more successful in the spreading of his hate. Hate never solved anything. Fear is only a ploy to scare you into doing someones bidding. Listen to Glenn Beck trying to tell you that Hamas or Hizbullah( he can't seem to make up his mind on which one it is) is teaming up with the Mexicans to invade America. People believe this hogwash. Just keep telling the white people that the Blacks, the Mexicans and the Muslims that they are going take over and you've got the fuel to enpower the most ignorant amongst us. The fact that people can actually believe that rich need tax cuts and the poor need cuts in services is the supreme idiocy. There I've had my rant.
[/quote]

Um, but yeah, as has been proven... You can vote for the politicians who SAY they'll do those things to get the country back on track, but they rarely end up actually DOING it when they're elected. Obama is a great example. Shit, they're all great examples....

It's a flawed system. I'll say it again...we're all fucked.

[mustafabey]

I wasn't picking on you when I used your analogy of "we're all fucked",but it just summed up alot of what I see in my neck of the woods. I get a distorted view,perhaps,up here they're raving conservatives, but they mostly are upset about the color of Obama's skin. Or they're rabid fundamentalists waiting for Jesus' imminent return to this planet where the dinosaurs died off sometime last week. Of the liberal breed, they're hidden. Obamaa stickers get your car key scraped at the least.Fox news is the only news they watch. Now about 50 miles south of here,where my girlfriend lives is Virginia Tech, a bastion of professorial liberalism. It's weird, all the hate for African Americans( not the word used in these parts),because these folks were poor mountain whites,Germans and Scots Irish mostly, and they could afford to own slaves. And my dear Scotty, an old bugger? Implying that am a fan of anal sex perhaps? Mostly I am an old fart or an old buzzard, but will proudly add old bugger to my list of titles.

Mustafa Bey, Old Bugger

[TheScotsman]

Naw, old bugger was as more in the term of endearment category, not the buggerer-of-wee-boys vernacular.

It looks like the "we are fecked" point is coming faster than anyone realizes. S&P downgraded outlook to a negative, and says the US bond rating is going to drop from AAA within the next two years, and has hinted at as little as 6 months, we are so close to the edge of the abyss it's not even funny.

And instead of taking the warning, and doing something about it, BHO decides to argue with S&P! That is the idea, make sure S&P, and the whole world knows this admin is going to ignore the warning. Investors are looking at how the pres shafted the bondholders on that GM deal, and realizing that this pres will do the same to gov't bond holders just as fast. Not the way to entice investment, that is for sure! Only a fool would buy any Fed state, or muni bonds right now.

I'm thinking we are in for a wild ride. Are you ready for this?

[mustafabey]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1303245713' post='506103']
Naw, old bugger was as more in the term of endearment category, not the buggerer-of-wee-boys vernacular.

It looks like the "we are fecked" point is coming faster than anyone realizes. S&P downgraded outlook to a negative, and says the US bond rating is going to drop from AAA within the next two years, and has hinted at as little as 6 months, we are so close to the edge of the abyss it's not even funny.

And instead of taking the warning, and doing something about it, BHO decides to argue with S&P! That is the idea, make sure S&P, and the whole world knows this admin is going to ignore the warning. Investors are looking at how the pres shafted the bondholders on that GM deal, and realizing that this pres will do the same to gov't bond holders just as fast. Not the way to entice investment, that is for sure! Only a fool would buy any Fed state, or muni bonds right now.

I'm thinking we are in for a wild ride. Are you ready for this?
[/quote]

Thanks for the endearment,Scotty. NO i am not ready for this roller coaster ride. The two sides are so far apart compromise seems impossible.I rather think they are more interested in their positions than in the country.Selfish interests rule,it appears. I guess the eventual destination of this roller coaster must have something to do with big neon lit name I saw as I boarded it "Welcome to the Third World"

Perhaps we ought to send a team to Haiti to help us with the transition

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1303250649' post='506112']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1303245713' post='506103']
Naw, old bugger was as more in the term of endearment category, not the buggerer-of-wee-boys vernacular.

It looks like the "we are fecked" point is coming faster than anyone realizes. S&P downgraded outlook to a negative, and says the US bond rating is going to drop from AAA within the next two years, and has hinted at as little as 6 months, we are so close to the edge of the abyss it's not even funny.

And instead of taking the warning, and doing something about it, BHO decides to argue with S&P! That is the idea, make sure S&P, and the whole world knows this admin is going to ignore the warning. Investors are looking at how the pres shafted the bondholders on that GM deal, and realizing that this pres will do the same to gov't bond holders just as fast. Not the way to entice investment, that is for sure! Only a fool would buy any Fed state, or muni bonds right now.

I'm thinking we are in for a wild ride. Are you ready for this?
[/quote]

Thanks for the endearment,Scotty. NO i am not ready for this roller coaster ride. The two sides are so far apart compromise seems impossible.I rather think they are more interested in their positions than in the country.Selfish interests rule,it appears. I guess the eventual destination of this roller coaster must have something to do with big neon lit name I saw as I boarded it "Welcome to the Third World"

Perhaps we ought to send a team to Haiti to help us with the transition
[/quote]


Maybe we need to send them to Haiti for a loan How frightening is that?

We have been a banana republic-but minus the banana cash-crop for a while. Some of us are just realizing it now. How well adapted to living on our own are we? Ready for wild rice, maple sugar, walleye fillet, and poached venison? You know, that actually sounds pretty good, doesn't it?

[mustafabey]

Oh plenty of deer, 10 acres for corn,beans and squash,plus yummy crappy, trout and bass. Theres always the poor mans delights of possum,raccoon,rabbit and squirrel. No real survival problems out here, spring water and a creek to swim in right on the property. Got enough ammo to outfit the Libyan rebels.