Social and Moral implications of hookah smoking.

[xpimpitox]

I smoke weed every once in a while and i still take care of business like many people have stated. sure there are major pothead bums that dont do shit but get high but like my cousin told my aunt one night because his little brother was ratted out on smoking pot to my aunt (long stupid story), this is a new generation, a lot of people smoke weed to get high but still take care of business, ie: work, go to school, pay bills, take care of family etc. i know because i smoke weed maybe once a week or less im not gonna go drop out of school, quit my job and be a burden to my family and just sit around and not do shit. this is an endless arguement but i just wanted to mention that while i do get high, still take care of my responsibilities. if i see it is to be a problem then i can quit cold turkey like i have before, i quit shisha and weed for 2 years, not that it was a problem just cause i can.

[Claytron]

I know a LOT of people who are occasional marajuana users. Perfectly normal young men and women with varying degrees of functionality within society - I can only think of only couple who've ever had any real issues with drugs. I also know people who do it ALOT - it certainly is capable of being all consuming. Alot of those people have slowed their usage over the years to occasional from everyday - it's often a social thing much like drinking. Tangiers has probably said EVERYTHING I could say on this issue. The real issue is ignorance on the really issues involved. They hear a few arguements - or just form oppinion based on nothing or a peer/parent's view - which I feel is often the case - and then take a stance, and that's it. They build their fortress from there. It's easy to take a stance against it because it's illegal already. If you do the research - looking for the balanced stuff - which is hard, so it's tough to blame people - you'll find exactly what Tangiers is saying. It's a PR issue at this point. It's also hilarious to read stuff written by people who haven't tried it. I'm sorry - but don't talk about a drug you haven't understood the effects of personally - it makes you sound really ignorant. Marajuana has no comparable effect to any common intoxicant. Most people who are experienced users can do every single every day activity while high - some activities can be more enjoyable while high. That's not to say one can't do stupid shit while high - that's blantantly not what I'm saying. Nor am I saying that it's a good idea for every person - much like using marajuana - or any drug for that matter - may or may not be appropriate for any given person. But I, and other here, feel that's the right of the individual to decide.

Also on the gateway drug thing - I always laugh when people talk about it being a gateway drug. Not because it's not true but because of why it seems to be the case. Particularly at a time like now when it's so demonized. Let's say you've been told you whole life about how dangerous and aweful marajuana is and how addictive it is, etc. Say you have an oppotunity to try it a few times and against all this previous knowledge, you deicde to see what the big deal is. Afterall - people are still doing it, so there must certainly be a reason no? Alot of people have their first real expereince with it and it can be profound. It's very different from alcohol or tobacco and has a temporary but powerful perspective altering effect. Not everyone enjoys it's effects of course. Some people smoke once, feel nothing, and blow it off because they didn't feel anything (since marajuana often requires a priming effect on the brain to do anything that can require multiple tries). But if you do - it can have some interesting effects - #1: Marajuana and all illegal drugs are lumped in as one big evil thing in our society. Marajuana and some of the halucinogens and a few other schedule 1 drugs are pretty tame. But they're lumped in with much harder drugs. So if you try it - you're gonna see how not dangerous it is. Which psychologically lessens your inhibition to try other drugs - I'm not saying it ensures it - but if you can't trust what you've been told - especially if you don't do proper research beforehand - you can end up trying some hard shit at the urging of a friend or whomever. Maybe even your own accord? I think that's a pretty big part of it. We're so busy demonizing drugs that are safer than alcohol, tobacco, or caffine that you're training people question what they've learned if they question it by trying it. #2 is similar but disparent to line of reasoning because it doesn't have to do with previous learning - and it can involve both. If you try it and enjoy it - you've been opened to a new psychological state that you cannot achieve naturally (not saying it's better/worse/etc - but different). That has a certain value to it. Alcohol does the same thing - except it's the result of poisoning. However some people enjoy the effects of recreational substances - if you try ANY you can become more curious as to the effects to others which can psychologically encourage you to try others - not because you feel COMPELLED, but because it's something you found to be a positive experience. But as Tangiers duely pointed out - alcohol and tobacco are way more prevelant gateway drugs at this point. But when you factor in the 'legality' aspect - that's only helps in my mind. And that's not the drug's fault - that's our fault for demonizing it and putting it in the same box as meth. As for the 'because they can get it from their dealer' arguement - I've had a number of drugs availible to me in my life - availibilty does not encourage use, it merely makes it possible. Just because there might be hydrocodone in my bathroom, doesn't mean I want to take it recreationally. Just because there is alcohol in my home doesn't mean I will drink it all at first chance. Just because my friend smokes opium and offers to let me smoke with him doesn't mean I will take her up on her offer. Most intelligent people, especially those who don't operate by the false reality of drugs proposed by law, will not merely take a potentially dangerous substance on a whim. That doesn't make any sense.

One thing that drugs can offer that is part of their alluring charm - is they offer new perspectives that you can't comprehend beforehand - people who've never used any 'drugs' on principle often discredit the value of such perspectives. I fell that's a mistake - I think people can learn alot from experimenting with drugs - even if it's just that they are not for them. But often even the experience of that experimentation opens doors pyschologically that make you a more open person - meaning, more willing to consider other perspectives. People often say 'I don't need that, I'm already open minded.' Which is kinda funny... but anyways... It's good if you can say that and it's true. But because you can't understand a drug without using it - there's no real way to know that. I'm also not saying you need to try every drug or anything of the sort - I'm just saying that drugs can offer an experience in life that one cannot otherwise have - for better or worse. People deride this kind of statement a lot - but it's a shame in my opinion because objectively it's true.

[Sonthert]

Well, Clay and I see eye-to-eye, seemingly!

Gateway drug is bunch of crap out of the chute. If alcohol was illegal and marijuana legal, then they would say "Marijuna is a gateway drug to alcohol use." Its the domino theory of communism revisited in the drug/social problems world. Well, if they get one, they'll get another one, and another one, then its all over.

If everyone in this country went back to minding their own business and stopped telling people what they should and shouldn't be doing, there would be alot less violence and drug use. People might become more responsible, too. Drug use is a manner for young people to break the grain of society telling them what is and is not appropriate.

I will say Clay, I waited until I was 26. I researched everything very carefully. I was prepared very fully. I always wondered is there a real place/experience/thing that can be sensed through drugs that can't be normally? I feel the answer is no. Yes, a different place, but not a real place. Of course, just because I know that doesn't mean that I want to stop others from making the same journey...for its not what's at the end of the road, its whats going to happen along the way. If someone were going to risk their lives for something, this would be it, second to keeping America free, but definitely moreso than Iraqis being free.

[Thepeug]

As I stated in another thread, I'm just now trying to quit smoking both cigarettes and marijuana. I've tried to do both in moderation, but it just doesn't happen. I'll start off in low doses, and before I know it, I'm smoking three times a day, skipping classes, and generally wasting my life. The fact that I live in a house full of chain-smoking potheads doesn't help.

That said, I firmly believe that pot should be legalized and government-regulated, just like cigarettes and alcohol. While I personally am unable to smoke weed and function normally, I know many people who smoke daily and lead happy, productive lives. Not only is marijuana healthier for you than both cigarettes and (large amounts of) alcohol, but the billions of dollars wasted each year to put marijuana smokers in jail is simply ludicrous. The social stigma against weed stems (no pun intended) largely from propaganda campaigns that emerged because the government wanted to regulate the economic success of hispanic marijuana exporters in the early 20th century. As others have stated, the fact that alcohol is legal while marijuana is not is (given the evidence) just plain silly.

[Sonthert]

I think thats way under-estimated factor in drug use, which is another reason for legalizing or at least not continuing the interdiction of it. The people, the friends, the social circle are everything...its all a matter of social dependency. Many of the "effects" ascribed to marijuana use are actually ascribable to the "mainstream" marijuana culture. Not the drug, just the people you end up hanging out with.

[chubby]

[quote name='Scheetz']Everything Scheetz has said so far[/quote]

I haven't read this thread in its entirety, so if anything I say is redundent, I'm sorry. However, all of your arguements are informal fallacies. I'm mostly referring to your post about how you "Blew that Emo kid Outta the water" in your public speaking class, and thethe fragments I read of your post with the random Emo kid picture.

In regards, and probably most poignant/ironic/embarrisingly, your argument in your public speaking class has little weight. You present an argument that basically starts with: A(legalizing marijuna).
With that premise you assert that B(assumed consequent) will follow, which will to C(assumed consequent) which leads to D(assumed consequent), and continues until you reach your conclusion of "America and it's economy goes to shit). so you end up with something like this:

If A-> B -> C -> D-> conclusion (something terrible)
[quote]Therefore, MJ will never become legal in our lifetime[/quote].

This form is known as the Slippery Slope informal fallacy, and more specifically [i]non causa pro causa[/i]. (granted your example is sort of all over the place)
Regardless, if you were in a public speaking class of some merit the "Emo kid" would have pointed this out and shown that your argument is fallacious and invalid at best.
The rest of your posts seem follow suit as textbook examples of informal fallacies.


[quote]yes, but you make up 5% of the pot smoking population. I have good friends that smoke weed constantly and they have 3.0 gpa's in college. I also see alot of kids come in and smoke their way right back home. There arnt many pot heads who are capable of smoking and doing their school work. For every 1 there is probably 10 who cant.[/quote]

Your first statement is an ignorant assumption, and an oversimplification. Since statistics for your stance aren't readily available, or even applicable (or you're too lazy to search) you pull a number out of your ass and stick a precentage sign on the end for a persuasive effect of validity. The fact that you have friends in college and friends who stayed home, has little to do with marijuana. Its a generalization, but more importantly its a false cause. You are oversimplyfying the reasons as to why your friends stayed home, and oversimplyfying marijuana as in influence. ALL of your friends who didn't go to college MAY be potheads, but that doesn't prove causality. According to your logic this could be true: All of your friends who stayed home are white, therefore being white causes them to stay home.

/end rant. (too tired to continue)

[chubby]

NVM, I actually read more of this thread, particularly scheetz posts, and have more ranting to do.

[quote]However....... Im sorry, but no matter how many scientists say MJ isnt addictive, I believe its complete and utter bullshit. In MY lifetime I have never met a highschooler or college student/ recent grad who smokes on a regular basis and can just walk away from it. I've lost to many friends to MJ use, their lives have become complete wrecks and are now worthless.[/quote]

However......I'm sorry, but please defend your stance on marijuana addiction with something more palpable than oppinion and personal observation, ESPECIALLY if you make a point of calling empirical scientific evidence "utter bullshit".

"I have never met a (student) who smokes on a regular basis and can just walk away from it". I have, who cares. That observation carries no weight. "Ive lost too(*) many friends to MJ use, their lives have become complete wrecks and are now worthless." The invalidity of this statement is painfully obvious. There's no causality shown in this observation. Do you honestly believe that the introduction of THC, a drug who's effects AND addiction potential is lower than coffee or chocolate, and who's effects are slight at best in comparison to "harder" drugs REALLY ripped your friends' frimly established and promising lives from their very hands? Have you considered societal correlations, psychology, personal priortization, motivation correlatories, pre-existing imbalances, personal history, etc? In comparison to the vast complexity of a human schemata, a daily drug habit becomes an insignificant factor for motivations, values, actions, or the "loss a friend". In the grand scale of things, possibly as insignificant as a daily cup of coffee, or 2 (or in the case of your friend who smokes 8 times a day, 8 cups of coffee). Look at the bigger picture man. Why are your friends smoking blunts? (The weed isn't making them do it). Once you answer that, ask yourself why do they need/have/want to do that. Once you answer that, ask it again. Socratic Method.....bitchesssss

IM OUT!

[Sonthert]

That about sums it up. Took the words right out of my mouth.

[shishakebab]

anyyyyyyway back to the original thingy

i live in adelaide and when i got ot he shisha house tha i got o weekly..we sit outside and everyone stares and we always say its shisha, flavored tobacco...and god be damned you wouldnt belive how many people stop to try some and then get their own hookah

I think australians are generally more open minded about everything though.