Osama Bin Laden Is Dead

[714xDGAFxKING]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1304562924' post='508344']
Invade a foreign nation, kill multiple foreign civilians, gun down an unarmed man in front of his daughter after shooting his wife, and then loose a previously unpublicized stealth helo into enemy hands. Pass out some fake pix to US congressmen in mean time.

Yep, that's a clusterfuck of a proportion near jimmy carter's desert rescue
[/quote]


yup and we did a sure good dam job of it. let me put it in simple terms for you, they punched us in the face and ran.. they were scared so bad that they hid out in caves. we found the leader and punched him in the face with a bullet.. and we won.. USA-1 terrorist-0

keep crying about it sissy..

[714xDGAFxKING]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1304649182' post='508475']
And now all railways are on alert because documentation was found in the raid to celebrate the anniversary of 9/11 by de-railing trains all over the country. Oh those poor, misunderstood, non-violent, innocent, people sitting around reading fairy tales, reciting poetry, drinking tea mass murdering terrorists. That we just up and killed for no reason. Screw this "we murdered those poor people" crap. If I had my way, we'd recover all the bodies, line them up and shoot them again.

'Rani



[/quote]


oh my gosh... words that i didnt even think of and wanted to say has been said... *hugs rani*

[Allstar]

[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1304628820' post='508458']
I just don't understand why people are bringing all that up- "Obama didn't catch him." Of course he didn't- the soldiers did. He just gave the order. I don't see why people are arguing such a moot point. Not once in Obama's address did I hear him "take credit for bringing down bin Laden." Please, quote the transcript and tell me where he does.

I mention Clinton and Bush because they were both presented opportunities to nab him yet didn't. Of course [b]had one of them made he decision to go in and capture/kill him[/b], it would have been soldiers getting him then as well.
[/quote]

Well Clinton bomb Khowst where he was but didn't hit him. I have been stationed in Khowst there are a lot of places that he would have been safe from a blast.

Bush wasn't the real issue there. The two times he was going after there were issues. The first time, a CIA lawyer shut it down because they are not authorized to assasinate people. The second time was going to be down by a tribe of locals. But the exit plan had a lot of issues which was holding him in a cave until a C 17 was able to land for exfil. So they shut that down. That was to risky in that area.

[Tyler]

You know, I didn't question the legitimacy of this story until CNN's iPhone app kept bombarding me with news updates like "Osama's death not fakes, confirmed by SITE" "Osama's body dumped in the ocean because Saudi Arabia refused the body" I still don't really question it but this kind of stuff makes me want to lol

[Allstar]

[quote name='Allstar' timestamp='1304628230' post='508457']
For one thing, Obama didn't catch him. Bush and Clinton wouldn't have either. The people on the ground caught him. U.S. NAVY SEALs. Yes he had to give the order, and btw we weren't looking in caves for him. Another thing, they wouldn't have been captured, they would have died there fighting next to their brothers and taken as many of those assholes with them. Also he didn't have an issue with western ideas as much as he did that his people turned their back on their traditions to adapt the western ideas.

What lead him to his way of thinking was this. After he lead his taliban fighters against the Russians in Afghanistan (as a backer with money), he returned to Sudia Arabia. They were being threatened by Iran. Iran wanted to invade. He stated to his royal family that he would fly his fighters out to guard the border and repel any attacks. He was turned down, because they said the Americans would do it. Then when he protested against the royal family, they threw him out. That is where things changed.
[/quote]

This is why they rejected his body. But they dumped it because they didn't want his burial site to be a shrine.

[Tyler]

I know why they did it, but I'm just saying it's like CNN is like "see! see! we told you he's dead!" lol

[Chreees]

Apparently they buried him at sea to make sure that his followers didn't have a place to pay their respects OR dig his body up and whatnot. They did the burial service according to his religion and in a respectful way, which that in itself says a lot about us, I think. The only thing they deliberately went against is burying him at sea, because in their religion, you're supposed to be buried on land if you die on land. I don't know, just what I heard. The whole thing about Saudi Arabia refusing his body, I've never heard before. And they didn't just dump his body in the ocean, it was like an hour-long proper burial at sea.

[noodle]

I think they're not releasing the burial-at-sea video because someone had the bright idea of playing sporting clays with Osama as the clay, an aircraft catapult as a launcher, and a CIWZ as the shotgun.
Edited May 7, 2011 by noodle

[Chreees]

[b]Let’s be clear about this: Admiral Ackbar did NOT destroy the Death Star. A Rebel pilot did. Ackbar just happened to be the one who recognized a trap. This is not an Ackbar victory, but a Rebel victory. Don’t let him distract you from the fact that he has never produced an official Mon Calamari birth certificate.[/b]

[Allstar]

[quote name='noodle' timestamp='1304752265' post='508625']
I think they're not releasing the burial-at-sea video because someone had the bright idea of playing sporting clays with Osama as the clay, an aircraft catapult as a launcher, and a CIWZ as the shotgun.

[/quote]

HAHAHAHAHA. CIWZ would turn him into swiss cheese.

[Tyler]

[quote name='Allstar' timestamp='1304775367' post='508642']
[quote name='noodle' timestamp='1304752265' post='508625']
I think they're not releasing the burial-at-sea video because someone had the bright idea of playing sporting clays with Osama as the clay, an aircraft catapult as a launcher, and a CIWZ as the shotgun.

[/quote]

HAHAHAHAHA. CIWZ would turn him into [b]arab[/b] cheese.
[/quote]

Fixed

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1304649182' post='508475']
And now all railways are on alert because documentation was found in the raid to celebrate the anniversary of 9/11 by de-railing trains all over the country. Oh those poor, misunderstood, non-violent, innocent, people sitting around reading fairy tales, reciting poetry, drinking tea mass murdering terrorists. That we just up and killed for no reason. Screw this "we murdered those poor people" crap. If I had my way, we'd recover all the bodies, line them up and shoot them again.

'Rani



[/quote]

not a liberal point of view on the situation? From Miss RANI? What?

So, not that I don't completely agree with your statement-with the addition of maybe nailing their privates to the post before shooting them again, Just why is it the average liberal-progressive will have a complete fit about catching one of above mentioned terrorists while they are armed, and actively engaged in shooting at US people... then water-boarding them? I just don't see how it can be both ways, sanctioning the execution of an untried individual on one hand is fine, but giving the other a shower is not?

[mustafabey]

OK I'm glad he's gone and yes Obama deserves credit as it happened on his watch. But what unnerves me is not political.Again America shows lack of sensitivity to other cultures. I saw it Vietnam when they forcibly removed villagers from the villages and cemetaries that contained the remains of their ancestors. Not a very Confucian thing to do. I watched as flame tanks incinerated bodies of NVA,VC and innocents denying them the rites of Buddhism which were important in the passage of the soul. Now we bury Osama at sea, much to the anger of the learned scholars at Al Azhar and other important ulema. What Islamic rites? The washed and shrouded the corpse apparently which is according to law,but the doctors of Islamic jurisprudence had problems with dumping him in the ocean. As Abdal hakim Murad of Cambridge University said of America "it has shown that, 10 years after 9/11, it has still not managed to understand even the most basic of Muslim practices. The result is likely to be further mistrust, at a moment that should have been a turning point, and a closing of an ugly and bitter chapter" The rest of that article maybe found here. [url="http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/05/09/osama.bin.laden.burial/index.html?hpt=C2"]CNN article[/url] So America wasn't sensitive to Islamic law, it just wanted to make sure that his grave would become a focus of some kind of pilgrimage as is common with Sufi sages and historic personages. I agree that we should move on and not dissect this event, but it saddens me that have yet understand the people in whose countries these terrorists operate. In Nam we bandied about the words "hearts and minds' and I've heard said of the Middle East. The average grunt's take was "grab 'em by the balls and their fuckin' hearts and minds will follow."If we want to deny fundamentalist terrorist the support,monies and sons of Dar el Islam, then we have to make an attempt to understand and RESPECT their world view. Things like Osama's burial at sea,France's burqa ban and the recent death of 62 refugees on the Mediterrean due to lack of response to their SOS is going to do nothing to endear these folks to us. Let us hope,by burying bin laden they way we did, we didn't create an angry ghost.

[Rani]

[quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1304973390' post='508839']
OK I'm glad he's gone and yes Obama deserves credit as it happened on his watch. But what unnerves me is not political.Again America shows lack of sensitivity to other cultures. I saw it Vietnam when they forcibly removed villagers from the villages and cemetaries that contained the remains of their ancestors. Not a very Confucian thing to do. I watched as flame tanks incinerated bodies of NVA,VC and innocents denying them the rites of Buddhism which were important in the passage of the soul. Now we bury Osama at sea, much to the anger of the learned scholars at Al Azhar and other important ulema. What Islamic rites? The washed and shrouded the corpse apparently which is according to law,but the doctors of Islamic jurisprudence had problems with dumping him in the ocean. As Abdal hakim Murad of Cambridge University said of America "it has shown that, 10 years after 9/11, it has still not managed to understand even the most basic of Muslim practices. The result is likely to be further mistrust, at a moment that should have been a turning point, and a closing of an ugly and bitter chapter" The rest of that article maybe found here. [url="http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/05/09/osama.bin.laden.burial/index.html?hpt=C2"]CNN article[/url] So America wasn't sensitive to Islamic law, it just wanted to make sure that his grave would become a focus of some kind of pilgrimage as is common with Sufi sages and historic personages. I agree that we should move on and not dissect this event, but it saddens me that have yet understand the people in whose countries these terrorists operate. In Nam we bandied about the words "hearts and minds' and I've heard said of the Middle East. The average grunt's take was "grab 'em by the balls and their fuckin' hearts and minds will follow."If we want to deny fundamentalist terrorist the support,monies and sons of Dar el Islam, then we have to make an attempt to understand and RESPECT their world view. Things like Osama's burial at sea,France's burqa ban and the recent death of 62 refugees on the Mediterrean due to lack of response to their SOS is going to do nothing to endear these folks to us. Let us hope,by burying bin laden they way we did, we didn't create an angry ghost.
[/quote]

Well, except that Bi Laden had zero to do with culture. He was a lunatic mass murderer who used his religion as an excuse for his crimes. You don't reason with a rabid dog. You shoot it before it can bite you or anyone else ever again. Anyone who doesn't get that, I honestly believe is looking for their own excuses.

'Rani

[Rani]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1304956385' post='508793']
[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1304649182' post='508475']
And now all railways are on alert because documentation was found in the raid to celebrate the anniversary of 9/11 by de-railing trains all over the country. Oh those poor, misunderstood, non-violent, innocent, people sitting around reading fairy tales, reciting poetry, drinking tea mass murdering terrorists. That we just up and killed for no reason. Screw this "we murdered those poor people" crap. If I had my way, we'd recover all the bodies, line them up and shoot them again.

'Rani



[/quote]

not a liberal point of view on the situation? From Miss RANI? What?

So, not that I don't completely agree with your statement-with the addition of maybe nailing their privates to the post before shooting them again, Just why is it the average liberal-progressive will have a complete fit about catching one of above mentioned terrorists while they are armed, and actively engaged in shooting at US people... then water-boarding them? I just don't see how it can be both ways, sanctioning the execution of an untried individual on one hand is fine, but giving the other a shower is not?
[/quote]

Last time I checked when you confess to a crime, you go immediately to jail, or death row, or whatever. No need to dispute the evidence any further. Taking someone who has not confessed and torturing them, is a little different from dealing with a self-confessed, nay, even bragging mass murderer.

'Rani

[mustafabey]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1304995023' post='508874']
[quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1304973390' post='508839']
OK I'm glad he's gone and yes Obama deserves credit as it happened on his watch. But what unnerves me is not political.Again America shows lack of sensitivity to other cultures. I saw it Vietnam when they forcibly removed villagers from the villages and cemetaries that contained the remains of their ancestors. Not a very Confucian thing to do. I watched as flame tanks incinerated bodies of NVA,VC and innocents denying them the rites of Buddhism which were important in the passage of the soul. Now we bury Osama at sea, much to the anger of the learned scholars at Al Azhar and other important ulema. What Islamic rites? The washed and shrouded the corpse apparently which is according to law,but the doctors of Islamic jurisprudence had problems with dumping him in the ocean. As Abdal hakim Murad of Cambridge University said of America "it has shown that, 10 years after 9/11, it has still not managed to understand even the most basic of Muslim practices. The result is likely to be further mistrust, at a moment that should have been a turning point, and a closing of an ugly and bitter chapter" The rest of that article maybe found here. [url="http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/05/09/osama.bin.laden.burial/index.html?hpt=C2"]CNN article[/url] So America wasn't sensitive to Islamic law, it just wanted to make sure that his grave would become a focus of some kind of pilgrimage as is common with Sufi sages and historic personages. I agree that we should move on and not dissect this event, but it saddens me that have yet understand the people in whose countries these terrorists operate. In Nam we bandied about the words "hearts and minds' and I've heard said of the Middle East. The average grunt's take was "grab 'em by the balls and their fuckin' hearts and minds will follow."If we want to deny fundamentalist terrorist the support,monies and sons of Dar el Islam, then we have to make an attempt to understand and RESPECT their world view. Things like Osama's burial at sea,France's burqa ban and the recent death of 62 refugees on the Mediterrean due to lack of response to their SOS is going to do nothing to endear these folks to us. Let us hope,by burying bin laden they way we did, we didn't create an angry ghost.
[/quote]

Well, except that Bi Laden had zero to do with culture. He was a lunatic mass murderer who used his religion as an excuse for his crimes. You don't reason with a rabid dog. You shoot it before it can bite you or anyone else ever again. Anyone who doesn't get that, I honestly believe is looking for their own excuses.

'Rani
[/quote]


Rani, the point I am trying to make is that respect creates respect. There is no doubt bin Laden was a monster and deserved what he got and maybe more,he caused massive death and the suffering will remain with us for decades. However once he is dead,he is gone and his remains deserve the respect we, as a civilize people should give each other. Osama was a Muslim, and Muslims have certain sensitivities about their dead. Remember how we reacted when we saw American bodies hanging off a bridge in Fallujah. How can we expect to make peace with a people we refuse to understand? They have a different way of viewing this world, which is just as valid as the way we view ours. We have inherited the British colonial hubris of the 19th century,an Anglo Saxon world view that states that our way is superior to all others. My way or the highway. We have no respect for people who don't things the way we want them done. What we care about is money and profit. If the Middle East did not contain oil and gas, we would have as much use for them as we have for starving Africans. We need to understand how these people view us. For 3 centuries.since the decline of the Ottoman empire we have colonized,ruled and exploited most of the nations in the Middle East. We drew their borders,made promises we never kept and inundated them with Christian missionaries who told them their traditions were wrong. I used to think that George H W Bush understood that he stood on the cusp of greatness when he allowed Saddam's Iraq to survive Desert Storm. He had built a coalition and kept out Israeli anger and perhaps realized he had built a platform upon which Middle Eastern peace could flourish.I am so naive sometimes. Saddam scared the crap out of the Saudi's and showed them the ineffectiveness of their military. Subsequent to Desert Storm we sold the Saudi's billions of dollars of American arms. It was,after all about the Benjamins.We vacuumed all the fish out of the waters around Somalia and then used those same waters a dump for hazardous materials and toxic waste and now wonder why they have turned into pirates. We exploit and bully the world for profit,feed our citizens a pablum of freedom,liberty and Jesus Christ and are unaware of what the rest of the world thinks. One commentator said something like ...well Osama is dead and the only terrorists left are the Americans. People like Osama exploit this and feed their people a similar spin oriented pablum of Palestinian freedom and a continuation of the crusades.If we don't clean up our act in the Middle East,if we don't attempt to understand their customs and culture,if all we care about is oil and gas, then we are never going to have a peaceful Middle East. The hubris must stop and the hands of mutual understanding and respect must be extended,if we expect to control the terrorists.

[mustafabey]

Here is an interesting article on bin Laden's buria; and the opinions of a few Muslim ulema

[url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110502/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_bin_laden_sea_burial"]bin Laden burial[/url]

[Chreees]

Yep, it's all about the respect, Mustafa... We first disrespected them in the coup in Iran in 1953 and the rest is history. Americans don't realize WE started this shit.

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1304995280' post='508876']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1304956385' post='508793']
[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1304649182' post='508475']
And now all railways are on alert because documentation was found in the raid to celebrate the anniversary of 9/11 by de-railing trains all over the country. Oh those poor, misunderstood, non-violent, innocent, people sitting around reading fairy tales, reciting poetry, drinking tea mass murdering terrorists. That we just up and killed for no reason. Screw this "we murdered those poor people" crap. If I had my way, we'd recover all the bodies, line them up and shoot them again.

'Rani



[/quote]

not a liberal point of view on the situation? From Miss RANI? What?

So, not that I don't completely agree with your statement-with the addition of maybe nailing their privates to the post before shooting them again, Just why is it the average liberal-progressive will have a complete fit about catching one of above mentioned terrorists while they are armed, and actively engaged in shooting at US people... then water-boarding them? I just don't see how it can be both ways, sanctioning the execution of an untried individual on one hand is fine, but giving the other a shower is not?
[/quote]

Last time I checked when you confess to a crime, you go immediately to jail, or death row, or whatever. No need to dispute the evidence any further. Taking someone who has not confessed and torturing them, is a little different from dealing with a self-confessed, nay, even bragging mass murderer.

'Rani
[/quote]



Damn Rani, you must be one old girl!

After all, no one has confessed, and gone right to prison since, well, the constitution was ratified.

Even if a suspect confesses, a judge must accept the confession, then order a sentence. In no case in modern USA history, has anyone confessed, then been gunned down in the street for saying they did something.

But, since you think it still works that way, you deserve respect as the oldest person on the face of the earth.... you predate the U.S.A! Must be the bean sprouts.

[Rani]

[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1305080222' post='508998']
[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1304995280' post='508876']
[quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1304956385' post='508793']
[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1304649182' post='508475']
And now all railways are on alert because documentation was found in the raid to celebrate the anniversary of 9/11 by de-railing trains all over the country. Oh those poor, misunderstood, non-violent, innocent, people sitting around reading fairy tales, reciting poetry, drinking tea mass murdering terrorists. That we just up and killed for no reason. Screw this "we murdered those poor people" crap. If I had my way, we'd recover all the bodies, line them up and shoot them again.

'Rani



[/quote]

not a liberal point of view on the situation? From Miss RANI? What?

So, not that I don't completely agree with your statement-with the addition of maybe nailing their privates to the post before shooting them again, Just why is it the average liberal-progressive will have a complete fit about catching one of above mentioned terrorists while they are armed, and actively engaged in shooting at US people... then water-boarding them? I just don't see how it can be both ways, sanctioning the execution of an untried individual on one hand is fine, but giving the other a shower is not?
[/quote]

Last time I checked when you confess to a crime, you go immediately to jail, or death row, or whatever. No need to dispute the evidence any further. Taking someone who has not confessed and torturing them, is a little different from dealing with a self-confessed, nay, even bragging mass murderer.

'Rani
[/quote]



Damn Rani, you must be one old girl!

After all, no one has confessed, and gone right to prison since, well, the constitution was ratified.

Even if a suspect confesses, a judge must accept the confession, then order a sentence. In no case in modern USA history, has anyone confessed, then been gunned down in the street for saying they did something.

But, since you think it still works that way, you deserve respect as the oldest person on the face of the earth.... you predate the U.S.A! Must be the bean sprouts.
[/quote]

Scotsman, don't be an ass. You know exactly what I mean. Even an accused fugitive is much, much different than someone who confesses openly that they're guilty. Sure there's due process, but none of that changes the fact that confess while in the hands of "justice" (almost choked on that considering the current state of our justice system), you're going to jail. You don't get to go hide in a cave or house somewhere across the world and keep going on TV whenever you feel like it and bragging about your actiions, grinding salt in the wounds of an entire nation and not expect retribution. Such people do NOT deserve the consideration and respect accorded those who choose to behave in a move civilized manner. You give up your right to be respected at the point where you become a mass murderer and then broadcast gloating about it. Even the accused, but unconfessed and unboasting, deserve respect until such time as they are proven to be unworthy of it. I stand by my statement that his personal actions result in his vacating his personal right to be respected on any level including religion. Espectially true since he used that religion as an excuse for his crimes.

From all accounts they gave him a burial at sea with proper Muslim dignity and repect. I would have been hard pressed to swallow my disgust and do the same.

'Rani

[mustafabey]

I read this comment this morning on CNN.com

In 2004, bin Laden urged supporters: "Be active and prevent them from reaching the oil, and mount your operations accordingly, particularly in Iraq and the Gulf." It became known as al Qaeda's "bleed until bankruptcy" strategy. Since bin Laden's death, jihadist forums have talked of attacks on shipping in the Strait of Hormuz at the tip of the Gulf, and in the Suez Canal.

Bleed until bankrupcy,Hmm, is this strategy working? We are certainly close to default,anyway.Social programs that have been the mainstream of America since the 1930's are on the chopping block.We are cutting spending everywhere,with cries of even more.This War on Terror must be costing us a fortune,non transparent since its all covert. Our wealthiest citizens refuse to contribute."Tax increases are off the table",says Boehner. Dems just want to raise the debt ceiling. So we are being bled,if not by al Qaeda,then perhaps by securing our oil supply at the cost of sacrificing our citizens.
The whole article maybe found [url="http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/11/bin.laden.revenge/index.html?hpt=T2"]HERE[/url]
I wonder why Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense, Mario Mancuso lets the world know the Saudi oil fields are vulnerable? Is he setting an ambush or just running at the mouth?

[nun]

Usama BIN DEAD before 9/11 attack. There's no way Bush would make Usama the scape goat of 9/11 attack while Usama was still living. They were business partners.<br>Why was Ahmad Shah Massoud assassinated 2 days before 9/11 attack? Massoud's last enemies were the Taliban and Al Qaida.<br>Google this before it disappears from internet : 9/11 dancing Israelis<br><br>I feel sorry for the real Heroes:<br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GipH-eZOz-o" class="bbc_url" title="External link" rel="nofollow external">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GipH-eZOz-o<br></a> Edited May 13, 2011 by nun

[mustafabey]

Michael Moore's take on the killing of Osama

[url="http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/13/michael-moores-some.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+boingboing%2FiBag+%28Boing+Boing%29"]Michael Moore[/url]

[Chreees]

[quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1305300006' post='509384']
Michael Moore's take on the killing of Osama

[url="http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/13/michael-moores-some.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+boingboing%2FiBag+%28Boing+Boing%29"]Michael Moore[/url]
[/quote]

This is so awesome and so true.

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1305301771' post='509389']
[quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1305300006' post='509384']
Michael Moore's take on the killing of Osama

[url="http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/13/michael-moores-some.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+boingboing%2FiBag+%28Boing+Boing%29"]Michael Moore[/url]
[/quote]

This is so awesome and so true.
[/quote]

I never thought I would find myself agreeing with Michael Moore on anything; He is pretty much right on with that summary.

I still think every time someone gets molested by a TSA pervert, or there is another loss of rights "for our safety" OBL continues to win the fight. Alive, or dead, think what you want of his elimination, through the tools bush gave him, in the form of the patriot act, he is still going to continue to win for the foreseeable future.