shishologist Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 It seems to me like moves are starting to be made: [url="http://www.mnn.com/health/fitness-well-being/stories/state-legislatures-cracking-down-on-hookah-smoking"]http://www.mnn.com/health/fitness-well-being/stories/state-legislatures-cracking-down-on-hookah-smoking[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zildjian Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 They have no legal ground to, in my opinion. They would also have to ban ciggs and cigars as it is tobacco, not to mention far more pure tobacco than ciggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plex Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 They have no legal ground to pass laws that infringe on our constitutional rights, but they do it anyways... what will stop them from doing it to hookah tobacco if that is their desire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shishologist Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 Some countries in the European Union have banned national use of shisha tobacco, still leaving in the right to import it for personal use. Other countries banned even the personal importation of it. Romania still allows importation, as far as I know, since I just finished ordering some online. This is indeed a rights issue, and a cultural issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippster Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 They really don't have any grounds to. Not unless they want to ban all forms of tobacco, dip, chew, cigarettes, cigars, SNUS, all of it, and they won't do that because they tax the shit out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vendetta_revived Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Well when you come down to reality, it states that they CAN ban it if they simply decide to, they may not have any legal grounds to do so, but all the articles I read on hookah slander seems to have one point in common, that somehow, hookah lounges target younger teens to smoke because it poses as a harmless option (even when I've not seen even one lounge encouraging such behaviour, at least where I live), according to my limited knowledge of how US govt works in this regard, they don't allow hookah lounges in some states unless they are grandfathered in, even then, I don't think they allow these allowed lounges to serve any alcohol. Then they use that very ground against them, saying that since they don't serve alcohol, they are a hangout zone for teenagers who get exposed to smoking hookah (which in their eyes is supposedly even more harmful than cigarettes), so.....you never know. Again, I state that I am not a US citizen so I have limited knowledge, and I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I think the potential for ban is greater than any of us would like to believe. Our government is entirely out of control in case anyone failed to notice. Remember being able to buy flavored cigarettes just 2 years ago? They're too tempting to the children, so every adult in America who might actually like flavored cigarettes now has to do without them. My feeling is the "saving our children" story is bullshit. Permanently take the business license away from any establishment selling to a minor. Period. Quit making every consenting adult suffer for fools refusing to respect the legal limits and parents who don't properly influence their kids to obeying the rules. Kids shouldn't smoke. End of story. When they reach the age of consent, then they have the right to entirely fuck up their bodies like any other consenting adult. Before you know it we'll also be banning tatoos, piercings, nail polish, whatever. After all Rhianna had six tats before age 18, and Justin Bieber has two at the age of 17. It's simple. You don't get to make your own choices until you're 18. And anyone who aids you in skirting the law, needs to pay the penalty. That way the rest of the responsible adults can still have their legally purchased pastimes. But is our government ever going to see it that way? Doubtful. 'Rani 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shishologist Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 I don't think it's about "saving the children." It's mostly about people with a cactus in their asses wanting satisfaction for "being right" about something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 [quote name='shishologist' timestamp='1307031268' post='511446'] I don't think it's about "saving the children." It's mostly about people with a cactus in their asses wanting satisfaction for "being right" about something. [/quote] I agree. But it's the excuse they give. And banning the products themselves isn't the answer either way. We certainly have that proven through Prohibition, don't we? 'Rani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shishologist Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 Yeah but unlike Prohibition, no one's ready to do anything about this looming threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antouwan Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 [quote name='Rani' timestamp='1307039190' post='511464'] [quote name='shishologist' timestamp='1307031268' post='511446'] I don't think it's about "saving the children." It's mostly about people with a cactus in their asses wanting satisfaction for "being right" about something. [/quote] I agree. But it's the excuse they give. And banning the products themselves isn't the answer either way. We certainly have that proven through Prohibition, don't we? 'Rani [/quote] this isn't the point at all. who was one of the main lobbyists against the flavored cigarettes ban? Phillip-Morris was. why? none of Phillip-Morris' companies produced flavored cigarettes, they only produced the normal and menthol varieties - coincidentally, menthol wasn't banned. the cigarette conglomerates are the ones banning other forms of tobacco. hell, the best way to get rid of your competition is to make them illegal - i've seen it first hand. all of these new tire pressure monitoring sensors? I've spoken with manufacturer's reps about how they are "working with their legal team" to pass more strict legislation to fill the corporate pockets.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plex Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 [quote name='antouwan' timestamp='1307042685' post='511472'] [...]the cigarette conglomerates are the ones banning other forms of tobacco. hell, the best way to get rid of your competition is to make them illegal - i've seen it first hand. all of these new tire pressure monitoring sensors? I've spoken with manufacturer's reps about how they are "working with their legal team" to pass more strict legislation to fill the corporate pockets....[/quote] Exactly, the corporate conglomerates send their army of lobbyists to push these atrocious bills... and then the [quote name='shishologist' timestamp='1307031268' post='511446'] [...]people with a cactus in their asses wanting satisfaction for "being right" about something.[/quote] submit and pass these bills into law to please their corporate masters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeDave Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Back to a more shisha-based, down to earth comment... I want to get all of these researchers together in a room, and ask them 1) Where they get their facts on the contents of hookah use 2) What the variable and constants in their "experiments" are, and 3) How old their information is. Half of the information they use has been crearly dismissed through more thorough, relevant and recent studies. Not only that, some of the information they provide is only half true, or half informative. These articals on hookah smoking are just as bad with "advertising" as the tobacco companies are themselves! "There is more smoke in one hookah session than 100-200 cigarettes combined". I can't tell you how many times I've seen this fact. First off, what's the REAL numbeR? 100? 200? 5,000? 40? It's always changing. Why? Because it's becoming more of a generalization than an actual fact, just something the health nuts use to scare people away. And even more, the biggest point, WHAT IS IN THE SMOKE!!!! Of course there is as much smoke as a large amount of cigarettes.. But do you notice they say there is more "smoke"? Not more carcinogens, not more nicotine, not more tar.. More smoke volume. If the AIR WE BREATHED came in smoke form and was filled with sunshine, shit and rainbows, and I smoked as much as 5,000,000 cigarettes of the stuff from a hookah, they would have a fact on the internet about it. I'm tired of the same 4 facts (even though only a few show actual proof in public, more just warnings) being passed around. Carbon monixde levels, 200 cigarettes worth, contains just as much poison and cancer-causing substances... I KNOW smoking hookah isn't going to boost my cardio.. BUT COME ON. I'm so tired of these news stations posting this shit. And what's worse? They interview the dumbest, most bro college students I've ever seen on this planet. "Hhere what this college student hd to say... 'uh yeah.. It's good.... I do it cuz it's social...idk if it's badder than cigs.. probably not..I think it isn't... Yeah...'" FUCK SALT. I'm going home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plex Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 it isn't about science...or logic... or helping us... it is about politics--money and power, of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shishologist Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 The measurement of the volume of smoke was a waste of money, if they really wanted a neutral test. As I said once, UK has researched the amount of tar released by certain coals. They only said that QL coals release 32 times as much tar as a cig, and natural coals release 200 times as much as a cig. This is extremely shady, since they don't mention what coals were used. For all we know, they get some cheap coals and put them DIRECTLY on the shisha, which makes it possible to produce tons of nasty tar. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they actually sat down in that lab spending more time thinking about how to make the hookah look more dangerous than ONE cigarette, let alone 100 of them, than actually doing neutral testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorlyfish Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I think taxation to the point where it becomes a lot more unappealing to buy (and thus also likely shutting down small businesses/lounges) is more likely than an outright ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shishologist Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 I'd still buy it, even if it grew to $200 a kilo. So that wouldn't really affect me, but it's still a stupid move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny_D Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I suspect that they don't want to ban it, just control it a lot more. I was very surprised to read about nyc banning smoking outside.... However. I genuinely don't believe tobacco will ever be outlawed. It's too profitibable from a taxation pov Jd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vendetta_revived Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 No one is saying that tobacco can be outlawed, I suppose most people consuming smoke-able tobacco are cigarette smokers, and I read no articles slandering them...none...zilch. Hookah smokers are a niche market in US as far as I know, just like flavoured cigarettes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 [quote name='vendetta_revived' timestamp='1307296584' post='511792'] No one is saying that tobacco can be outlawed, I suppose most people consuming smoke-able tobacco are cigarette smokers, and I read no articles slandering them...none...zilch. Hookah smokers are a niche market in US as far as I know, just like flavoured cigarettes. [/quote] Bingo! That was my point about them using kids as an excuse to ban it. Being "flavored" and "candy-ish", they're going to use that argument to find a way to ban it. Although at this point hookah smokers are a small enough number that we haven't been worth the cost to go after. The scary part is that they've come to the realization that they can use our legal system to cut the competition. 'Rani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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