Ramadan Journal

[Kapten Kanel]

[b]Not meaning to offend someone[/b] but this is clearly harmful, never understood it. And if you train/work out (which is impossible to do right when fasting) you are going to hurt yourself badly, especially with heavy weights. Push your body to the limit at the gym/sports instead, not by intentionaly starving yourself.
Please explain, i just dont get it.

[Tyler]

It isn't harmful at all. It is actually health and detoxifying for the body. And it's more than PHYSICALLY pushing yourself. It's emotionally and spiritually pushing yourself at the same time. There are provisions in place to help people who cannot fast such as if you're sick, or physically inable for another reason, or if you're traveling, pregnant, ect.... it is for people who are otherwise healthy to do correctly.

[Scrappydoo]

[quote name='Kapten Kanel' timestamp='1312418546' post='518577']
[b]Not meaning to offend someone[/b] but this is clearly harmful, never understood it. And if you train/work out (which is impossible to do right when fasting) you are going to hurt yourself badly, especially with heavy weights. Push your body to the limit at the gym/sports instead, not by intentionaly starving yourself.
Please explain, i just dont get it.
[/quote]


You think people are fasting just to lose weight and that's not it. Fasting has nothing to do with weight loss, it is a valuable tool for learning self control, appreciating what you have, sympathy for the poor. It detoxifies your body and helps you sleep better. If you are addicted or have bad habits with sugar or caffiene, this rids the body of those desires. There are a lot of highly trained athletes who fast and train, I am sure their sports doctors are more knowledgeable. People of all religions and no religion fast for a variety of reasons, read up on it. Edited August 4, 2011 by Scrappydoo

[Kapten Kanel]

[quote name='Tyler' timestamp='1312425146' post='518600']
It isn't harmful at all. It is actually health and detoxifying for the body. And it's more than PHYSICALLY pushing yourself. It's emotionally and spiritually pushing yourself at the same time. There are provisions in place to help people who cannot fast such as if you're sick, or physically inable for another reason, or if you're traveling, pregnant, ect.... it is for people who are otherwise healthy to do correctly.
[/quote]

Pushing yourself at the gym/sports also takes discipline and emotional control. Fasting is healthy? No, it is not. Eating and training is healthy. Detoxifying? Give me a break, you also believe in nature medicine? Roots and leaves which cures everything you can think of etc? Same crap.


[quote name='Scrappydoo' timestamp='1312457370' post='518636']
[quote name='Kapten Kanel' timestamp='1312418546' post='518577']
[b]Not meaning to offend someone[/b] but this is clearly harmful, never understood it. And if you train/work out (which is impossible to do right when fasting) you are going to hurt yourself badly, especially with heavy weights. Push your body to the limit at the gym/sports instead, not by intentionaly starving yourself.
Please explain, i just dont get it.
[/quote]


You think people are fasting just to lose weight and that's not it. Fasting has nothing to do with weight loss, it is a valuable tool for learning self control, appreciating what you have, sympathy for the poor. It detoxifies your body and helps you sleep better. If you are addicted or have bad habits with sugar or caffiene, this rids the body of those desires. There are a lot of highly trained athletes who fast and train, I am sure their sports doctors are more knowledgeable. People of all religions and no religion fast for a variety of reasons, read up on it.
[/quote]

What? Where did you get that idea? Never said anything about weight loss. Dont make assumptions.

Tool for self-control? - By starving yourself? There are certainly better ways to learn self-control (which is a empty word without any relevance for "reality", or, at least it lacks weight in this matter, its not what fasting is really about).

Sympathy for the poor? There are alot of better ways to show that, like, [b]anything[/b]. Its just hollow, see below -

You see where im going, its to 95%, a religious/"spiritual" thing,and/or a taught behavior, riddled with beliefs and lies.

Instead, implement a tradition that goes like this: Everybody has to, for a month, eat until they are about to puke (training takes calories, ALOT of them), then lift weights and run, until you are about to pass out (dont take it that far...), repeat. Now [b]THAT[/b], takes self-control and discipline, and also makes you stronger, faster, more energized and increases your well-being i general.

Fasting is not healthy in any way, its not even discussable. And school, work, everything gets hit by this pointless practice. Try doing some math with only liquid in your body the last 8 hours. And some sports/gym (important, because of the lack of physical exercise in todays society) after that, oh wait...


[i]"There are a lot of highly trained athletes who fast and train"[/i]

Yes, and they would have been in even better form if they didnt.


And please dont link the stuff about mice living longer from calorie-reduced food intake and similar (as mentioned on the wikipedia on fasting), it is clearly irrelevant (and a dumb practice in general). Sometimes, wikipedia just fails, hard.


See it from my perspective, i see people happily and willingly (and pointlessly) starving themselves (believing its healthy) for no other reasons than that "my parents did it" or that some book told you/similar.

[nkfm]

I thought this would be interesting to add - my husband works in the prisons here, and he told me about how they do Ramadan at the unit. He works at a low security portion of the prison and everyone there is required to have a job in order to stay low security. During Ramadan the inmates do not have to go to work and are allowed to go to recreation all day, though most don't. They are given a special chow time, much later than the normal dinner, but still eat the normal dinner menu with double portions. One guard is assigned to 'work Ramadan' and make sure everyone has been taken care of and they have a special place to pray - normally they are just allowed to pray at their cell.

He says a lot of inmates are 'convenient Muslims' and only claim Islam because they want to get off work, but the true believers will often straighten them out by constantly sharing the Quran with them, inviting them to pray etc. He says you can usually tell these kind because they do not pray and think Ramadan is a calendar month and never changes.

[Scrappydoo]

[quote name='Kapten Kanel' timestamp='1312474860' post='518685']
[quote name='Tyler' timestamp='1312425146' post='518600']
It isn't harmful at all. It is actually health and detoxifying for the body. And it's more than PHYSICALLY pushing yourself. It's emotionally and spiritually pushing yourself at the same time. There are provisions in place to help people who cannot fast such as if you're sick, or physically inable for another reason, or if you're traveling, pregnant, ect.... it is for people who are otherwise healthy to do correctly.
[/quote]

Pushing yourself at the gym/sports also takes discipline and emotional control. Fasting is healthy? No, it is not. Eating and training is healthy. Detoxifying? Give me a break, you also believe in nature medicine? Roots and leaves which cures everything you can think of etc? Same crap.


[quote name='Scrappydoo' timestamp='1312457370' post='518636']
[quote name='Kapten Kanel' timestamp='1312418546' post='518577']
[b]Not meaning to offend someone[/b] but this is clearly harmful, never understood it. And if you train/work out (which is impossible to do right when fasting) you are going to hurt yourself badly, especially with heavy weights. Push your body to the limit at the gym/sports instead, not by intentionaly starving yourself.
Please explain, i just dont get it.
[/quote]


You think people are fasting just to lose weight and that's not it. Fasting has nothing to do with weight loss, it is a valuable tool for learning self control, appreciating what you have, sympathy for the poor. It detoxifies your body and helps you sleep better. If you are addicted or have bad habits with sugar or caffiene, this rids the body of those desires. There are a lot of highly trained athletes who fast and train, I am sure their sports doctors are more knowledgeable. People of all religions and no religion fast for a variety of reasons, read up on it.
[/quote]

What? Where did you get that idea? Never said anything about weight loss. Dont make assumptions.

Tool for self-control? - By starving yourself? There are certainly better ways to learn self-control (which is a empty word without any relevance for "reality", or, at least it lacks weight in this matter, its not what fasting is really about).

Sympathy for the poor? There are alot of better ways to show that, like, [b]anything[/b]. Its just hollow, see below -

You see where im going, its to 95%, a religious/"spiritual" thing,and/or a taught behavior, riddled with beliefs and lies.

Instead, implement a tradition that goes like this: Everybody has to, for a month, eat until they are about to puke (training takes calories, ALOT of them), then lift weights and run, until you are about to pass out (dont take it that far...), repeat. Now [b]THAT[/b], takes self-control and discipline, and also makes you stronger, faster, more energized and increases your well-being i general.

Fasting is not healthy in any way, its not even discussable. And school, work, everything gets hit by this pointless practice. Try doing some math with only liquid in your body the last 8 hours. And some sports/gym (important, because of the lack of physical exercise in todays society) after that, oh wait...


[i]"There are a lot of highly trained athletes who fast and train"[/i]

Yes, and they would have been in even better form if they didnt.


And please dont link the stuff about mice living longer from calorie-reduced food intake and similar (as mentioned on the wikipedia on fasting), it is clearly irrelevant (and a dumb practice in general). Sometimes, wikipedia just fails, hard.


See it from my perspective, i see people happily and willingly (and pointlessly) starving themselves (believing its healthy) for no other reasons than that "my parents did it" or that some book told you/similar.
[/quote]

TYLER! I'll let you deal with this one, I'm tired of teenage boys who know it all.

[Scrappydoo]

[quote name='nkfm' timestamp='1312475056' post='518688']
I thought this would be interesting to add - my husband works in the prisons here, and he told me about how they do Ramadan at the unit. He works at a low security portion of the prison and everyone there is required to have a job in order to stay low security. During Ramadan the inmates do not have to go to work and are allowed to go to recreation all day, though most don't. They are given a special chow time, much later than the normal dinner, but still eat the normal dinner menu with double portions. One guard is assigned to 'work Ramadan' and make sure everyone has been taken care of and they have a special place to pray - normally they are just allowed to pray at their cell.

He says a lot of inmates are 'convenient Muslims' and only claim Islam because they want to get off work, but the true believers will often straighten them out by constantly sharing the Quran with them, inviting them to pray etc. He says you can usually tell these kind because they do not pray and think Ramadan is a calendar month and never changes.
[/quote]

That is interesting! Why do they give them double portions? We are not supposed to eat extra because we fasted all day. Yeah, there are a lot of people who use their religions to get by. In the Middle East a lot of maids claim to be Muslims because they get paid higher when in reality they know nothing but how to put a scarf on your head and fake it.

[Scrappydoo]

[quote name='Kapten Kanel' timestamp='1312418546' post='518577']
[b]Not meaning to offend someone[/b][/quote]


THE ONLY reason I fast is to please GOD and since you don't support or believe in that, then it is offensive to tell people they are wrong for doing so.

I don't completely disregard everything you say because you only 21, but I believe my doctor and many doctors who prescribe/allow fasting for MILLIONS of people. How many Muslims do you think are in the world? (quick, I'm sure you have wikipedia easily accessible!)

WHEN you get your Medical License, let me know and we'll discuss it again.

[Rani]

Kaptan Kanel, there as a lot of reasons someone would choose to fast including it bringing them closer to understanding the devastatingly poor in the world who literally starve to death for lack of food. Such as what's happening in the Horn of Africa right now. Furthermore it's not what you might call a true fast . It's a refrain from eating during specific hours in order to better appreciate the gift of food and cease taking it for granted. A local mosque here in Los Angeles takes the food that would have been eaten during the day, and disperses it to the poor and homeless on Skid Row. It's about discipline and willingness to choose mind and spirit over body and taking the basics of food for granted. Ramadan and other religious observations of fasting have been going on a couple thousand years. It's my guess if it was so incredibly harmful, someone would have probably figured it out and put an end to it before your opinion came to light. For you to attack it simply because you don't feel it's worth it, or whatever, shows a complete lack of willingness to try even try and understand. If you don't approve, then don't fast. And if you don't like the thread, don't click on it.

'Rani

[Kapten Kanel]

[quote name='Scrappydoo' timestamp='1312478310' post='518698']
TYLER! I'll let you deal with this one, I'm tired of teenage boys who know it all.
[/quote]

Yes, insult me for my age. If anything, you are insulting nobody but yourself since i make you look like a [b]fool [/b]in comparison, and "im only 21".
Wisdom comes with age, yes, to a certain degree. Its an old expression and has less value in todays fast-changing world, general "life experience" on the other hand, i can agree older people have more of. There are, ahem, [b]exceptions[/b], ofcourse...


[quote name='Scrappydoo' timestamp='1312480678' post='518702']
[b]THE ONLY reason I fast is to please GOD[/b] and [b]since you don't support or believe in that, then it is offensive to tell people they are wrong for doing so.[/b]
[/quote]

Thank you, you have proven my point(s). I truly feel sorry for your children.

[Scrappydoo]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1312481723' post='518707']
Kaptan Kanel, there as a lot of reasons someone would choose to fast including it bringing them closer to understanding the devastatingly poor in the world who literally starve to death for lack of food. Such as what's happening in the Horn of Africa right now. Furthermore it's not what you might call a true fast . It's a refrain from eating during specific hours in order to better appreciate the gift of food and cease taking it for granted. A local mosque here in Los Angeles takes the food that would have been eaten during the day, and disperses it to the poor and homeless on Skid Row. It's about discipline and willingness to choose mind and spirit over body and taking the basics of food for granted. Ramadan and other religious observations of fasting have been going on a couple thousand years. It's my guess if it was so incredibly harmful, someone would have probably figured it out and put an end to it before your opinion came to light. For you to attack it simply because you don't feel it's worth it, or whatever, shows a complete lack of willingness to try even try and understand. If you don't approve, then don't fast. And if you don't like the thread, don't click on it.

'Rani
[/quote]


THIS! ^^^^^
BJ

[nkfm]

[quote name='Scrappydoo' timestamp='1312478482' post='518699']
[quote name='nkfm' timestamp='1312475056' post='518688']
I thought this would be interesting to add - my husband works in the prisons here, and he told me about how they do Ramadan at the unit. He works at a low security portion of the prison and everyone there is required to have a job in order to stay low security. During Ramadan the inmates do not have to go to work and are allowed to go to recreation all day, though most don't. They are given a special chow time, much later than the normal dinner, but still eat the normal dinner menu with double portions. One guard is assigned to 'work Ramadan' and make sure everyone has been taken care of and they have a special place to pray - normally they are just allowed to pray at their cell.

He says a lot of inmates are 'convenient Muslims' and only claim Islam because they want to get off work, but the true believers will often straighten them out by constantly sharing the Quran with them, inviting them to pray etc. He says you can usually tell these kind because they do not pray and think Ramadan is a calendar month and never changes.
[/quote]

That is interesting! Why do they give them double portions? We are not supposed to eat extra because we fasted all day. Yeah, there are a lot of people who use their religions to get by. In the Middle East a lot of maids claim to be Muslims because they get paid higher when in reality they know nothing but how to put a scarf on your head and fake it.
[/quote]


I have no idea tbh, the husband says it's because they are worried about malnutrition. He says the higher up officials don't really try to understand the customs in detail, just provide everyone a chance to practice their faith without major problems.

[Tyler]

ANYWAYS, on top of just being flat out misinformed and wrong about the situation it is also highly offensive the way in which you speak of the matter. I have asked the mods to remove the following post numbers:

26
27
28
29
31
33
34
35
36

in light of keeping this journal where I wanted it to be and back on topic. If you wish to discuss this matter then feel free to make your own thread about it. No more on the topic in this thread please. That means don't even reply to this one unless it is pertinent to the origonal thread. Thank you.

[Chreees]

Above posts hidden per Tyler's request.

Stay on topic, people. Thanks.

[Kapten Kanel]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1312481723' post='518707']
Kaptan Kanel, there as a lot of reasons someone would choose to fast including it bringing them closer to understanding the devastatingly poor in the world who literally starve to death for lack of food. Such as what's happening in the Horn of Africa right now. Furthermore it's not what you might call a true fast . It's a refrain from eating during specific hours in order to better appreciate the gift of food and cease taking it for granted. A local mosque here in Los Angeles takes the food that would have been eaten during the day, and disperses it to the poor and homeless on Skid Row. It's about discipline and willingness to choose mind and spirit over body and taking the basics of food for granted. Ramadan and other religious observations of fasting have been going on a couple thousand years. It's my guess if it was so incredibly harmful, someone would have probably figured it out and put an end to it before your opinion came to light. For you to attack it simply because you don't feel it's worth it, or whatever, shows a complete lack of willingness to try even try and understand. If you don't approve, then don't fast. And if you don't like the thread, don't click on it.

'Rani
[/quote]

Fasting wont help with anything, if you have to force yourself to feel strong hunger just to be able to "feel" with the poor and starving, well, its a nice gesture but... Or, you could read up on the situation, search for the organization that best fits your view on how to help (and utilizes the money the most effectively, least corruption etc), and just donate some money every month. (honestly that wont help in the long run either but that is another discussion).

Its just a totally different mindset. There is no discussion to be had here (and that is the problem). I cannot try to understand something that lacks logic (to me), its like showing me a math problem with the wrong solution (to me) and trying to convince me its true. Or something.
I have full respect for you Rani (i have lurked this forum for many years and you deserve it), and i will leave this thread, it got out of hand and some things ive said probably came out alot "harder" then they was supposed to because i think scrappy:s behaving like a 5-year old and that impaired my judgement. Do remember that this happened at the same time as the stuff in the "Religion" thread (where i wont back down, ever, the crap going down there is just ridiculous). Peace

[quote name='Tyler' timestamp='1312492051' post='518725']
ANYWAYS, on top of just being flat out misinformed and wrong about the situation

[/quote]

Well that was enlightning, or, no, it wasnt.

[quote name='Tyler' timestamp='1312492051' post='518725']
it is also highly offensive the way in which you speak of the matter.

[/quote]

Maybe, maybe not, see what i wrote to Rani regarding that. I still stand for most of the things i said, just not the general tone i forwarded them in (which is understandable since scrappy has[i] issues[/i]).

[quote name='Tyler' timestamp='1312492051' post='518725']
I have asked the mods to remove the following post numbers:

26
27
28
29
31
33
34
35
36

in light of keeping this journal where I wanted it to be and back on topic. If you wish to discuss this matter then feel free to make your own thread about it. No more on the topic in this thread please.
[/quote]

Do it, i dont care, its probably for the best. I will leave this thread.

[quote name='Tyler' timestamp='1312492051' post='518725']
That means don't even reply to this one unless it is pertinent to the origonal thread. Thank you.
[/quote]

That is too much and you know it. I have said what i wanted to say here.

[Chreees]

STAY ON TOPIC. No more disrespect. Seriously. Vacations will be given out; this is the only warning.

[Tyler]

Today was hard. Not going to lie. I'm not really a big fan of Surah 4 as it just seems to kind of go on and on to no end but I read it through and appreciated what it had to say at least. I spent most of the day cleaning and that made me hungrier than normal and I ended up getting ticked with my roommates and went out for dinner instead of cooking for them, I feel bad about it now but at the time I was sooo aggrivated -- I cleaned while they sat on the couch and watched. It was just a long day for me. But I'm feeling better and hopefully the good mood carries into tomorrow...I'm having a "talk" with my roommates about being the only one cleaning and stuff so hopefully everything goes well.

[Scrappydoo]

[quote name='Tyler' timestamp='1312532863' post='518807']
Today was hard. Not going to lie. I'm not really a big fan of Surah 4 as it just seems to kind of go on and on to no end but I read it through and appreciated what it had to say at least. I spent most of the day cleaning and that made me hungrier than normal and I ended up getting ticked with my roommates and went out for dinner instead of cooking for them, I feel bad about it now but at the time I was sooo aggrivated -- I cleaned while they sat on the couch and watched. It was just a long day for me. But I'm feeling better and hopefully the good mood carries into tomorrow...I'm having a "talk" with my roommates about being the only one cleaning and stuff so hopefully everything goes well.
[/quote]


[font="Georgia"][size="2"][color="#000080"]It sounds like they need some tough love (or a boot in the ass!) It's your Ramadan, too, you should be able to enjoy it and I think going out for dinner is a great idea. I mean, you didn't give birth to these turds. Good luck with your talk! [/color][/size][/font]

[Tyler]

I am taking a break from fasting today. For a few reasons. I have had a tooth ache for 2 weeks now and I am going to get it looked at in the morning and also my back has been bothering me since I cannot take my medication during the day time. So I think I'll just take the Saturdays off this year and make them up after Eid. I know it sounds like I'm pussing out but I need the break.

[Scrappydoo]

[quote name='Tyler' timestamp='1312625040' post='518980']
I am taking a break from fasting today. For a few reasons. I have had a tooth ache for 2 weeks now and I am going to get it looked at in the morning and also my back has been bothering me since I cannot take my medication during the day time. So I think I'll just take the Saturdays off this year and make them up after Eid. I know it sounds like I'm pussing out but I need the break.
[/quote]


You might want to check with an Imam. Taking today off is fine but planning to take every Saturday off and just making it up is not the same. It's not like women's curse where you can make up day for day. If you are not sick and just take the day off, you have to fast for 2 months, I believe PLUS pay to free a slave or feed like 60 people AND it is said still will not make up that day. Check it out before you do it, not fasting without a good reason is major shirk. I hope you're feeling better, soon!

[Tyler]

Well it's not for no reason, it's more to maintain myself. I have 2 compressed discs and a cracked L3 so I usually take pain medication to manage the pain, I can do without it fora short period of time, but if I go logner than a week it becomes too much and if I have to break fast by taking the medicine then...yeah

[Tyler]

Also:

[url="http://islam.about.com/od/ramadan/f/makingup.htm"]http://islam.about.com/od/ramadan/f/makingup.htm[/url]

The 60 day thing is only if I have sex

[Tyler]

So I reached a breaking point. Not in Ramadan, but in life. Maybe fasting was a blessing in disgise, the extra push over the edge that I needed but while it sucks right now I have faith that I'm going to make it through...though not in the way many people think...

...not as a Muslim
...not as a Christian
and not as a Jew


rather as a Child of God. I think that what I've been doing is taking Islam as a religion and manipulating it enough so that my Christian roots were comfortable...I was never fully a Muslim I can admit that, and I never fully left Christianity in my heart, I can admit that too, but what I can't admit is why...

Not because I don't want to...but because I don't know.

I love Islam. Anyone who has ever talked to me about Islam knows that fact. I also love Christianity, and Judaism. But I always had this attraction for Islam but maybe it was more of an academic attraction than a personal conviction attraction. I've been feeling this way ever since I graduated from my program...there was something different, something that I wasn't sure of...

Who knows. I have some soul searching to do, and I just have to tell myself that it isn't wrong to be a Christian, or a Muslim, or a Jew, or anything, what is wrong is being something, saying something that you're not and that you're not sure if you believe in...

There are 2 things right now that I am certain of:

1) God exists in a very real way, and tonight I think I felt the Lord's presence

2) I know I'll probably lose some "friends" along the way for this soul searching, because thats just how some people are. They want to put you in a box and they'll be damned if you ever leave that box. So I might be jumping boxes but who knows. I might stay put. The only thing left now is some serious soul searching, praying, and love.

[Venger]

To thine own self be true. My dad was a Wesleyan minister most of my life. when I became an adult I had to tell him I was leaving his church. You know there is something wrong when the churches rule book is longer than the bible. I have my own philosophy on Christianity called it's just that simple. If it isn't in the bible and \or your personally not convicted by it then I doubt God has an issue with it. I once had an atheist friend ask me "isn't it your job to talk me into be a Christian?" I said nope. Jesus said behold I stand and the door and knock. He never said I am knocking down this door. Keep searching, your heart knows the truth, at least your truth. So my advice is pray it out brother.
Ray

[Scrappydoo]

[quote name='Tyler' timestamp='1312795493' post='519220']
So I reached a breaking point. Not in Ramadan, but in life. Maybe fasting was a blessing in disgise, the extra push over the edge that I needed but while it sucks right now I have faith that I'm going to make it through...though not in the way many people think...

...not as a Muslim
...not as a Christian
and not as a Jew


rather as a Child of God. I think that what I've been doing is taking Islam as a religion and manipulating it enough so that my Christian roots were comfortable...I was never fully a Muslim I can admit that, and I never fully left Christianity in my heart, I can admit that too, but what I can't admit is why...

Not because I don't want to...but because I don't know.

I love Islam. Anyone who has ever talked to me about Islam knows that fact. I also love Christianity, and Judaism. But I always had this attraction for Islam but maybe it was more of an academic attraction than a personal conviction attraction. I've been feeling this way ever since I graduated from my program...there was something different, something that I wasn't sure of...

Who knows. I have some soul searching to do, and I just have to tell myself that it isn't wrong to be a Christian, or a Muslim, or a Jew, or anything, what is wrong is being something, saying something that you're not and that you're not sure if you believe in...

There are 2 things right now that I am certain of:

1) God exists in a very real way, and tonight I think I felt the Lord's presence

2) I know I'll probably lose some "friends" along the way for this soul searching, because thats just how some people are. They want to put you in a box and they'll be damned if you ever leave that box. So I might be jumping boxes but who knows. I might stay put. The only thing left now is some serious soul searching, praying, and love.
[/quote]

[font="Georgia"][size="2"][color="#4b0082"]Fasting very often brings people to a breaking point. It also brings you to new levels of awareness you've never believed possible. I think everyone questions and re-evaluates what they believe from time to time. Just follow your heart. Follow what your heart believes to be true. Some people need organized religion and all the rules and leaders, some are more free spirits. FOR me, Islam makes the most sense in philosophy. I like the guidelines but I don't always believe every hadeeth and fatwa that comes down the path on everything from fingernail polish to how to use the restroom. I know we are all very simliar, but Christianity confuses me and it is those differences that caused me to revert. Long run, any "friend" who loses you because of what you believe was never a friend in the first place. You're better off without them. Don't get caught up in titles, what is between you and GOD is what matters. What other people think.....pffft! (raspberry and not the juicy Mizo kind!)[/color][/size][/font]